Do Conservatives know what health insurance is?

[Sun Devil 92]

Realizing that hospitals spend their revenues is relying on faith? Sure, LOL!

No believing that a $137 markup on an IV bag that costs less than $1 somehow will trickle down into the economy is the faith I'm mocking.

It's not the same thing.

And let's be clear...Obamacare has done nothing for costs.....period.

You know an IV bag costs less than 1$ ? Provide the link. You gonna hook it up yourself...more power to you. But right now, you'll pay a nurse to do that.

 

[The Derp]

No one is going to die from a burst appendix. Hospitals are compelled to provide emergency treatment. REAL health insurance does and should cover that. THAT is what insurance is. Literally, you pay x dollars so that an insurance company will indemnify you for a future risk.

So what if you don't have insurance, then? What happens then when you get an appendectomy?

 

[Sun Devil 92]

Exactly. That's why Obamacare covering pre-existing conditions means it isn't insurance any more.

So it doesn't insure you from financial ruin? Then what does insurance do, then?

Oh, this from the guy who whines about others who don't understand insurance.

 

[Sun Devil 92]

Do you? Because what we have in this country by and large is not health insurance, they are health care plans and that's why they are so expensive. Big difference

???? Health insurance plans, you mean? There's health care, which is your doctor performing a procedure on you, and there's health insurance, which serves as the mechanism by which your provider is reimbursed for performing that procedure.

Conservatives don't know or understand the difference.

Actually, it is left wingers who are totally ignorant.

You've demonstrated that quite clearly.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

Realizing that hospitals spend their revenues is relying on faith? Sure, LOL!

No believing that a $137 markup on an IV bag that costs less than $1 somehow will trickle down into the economy is the faith I'm mocking.

No believing that a $137 markup on an IV bag that costs less than $1 somehow will trickle down into the economy is the faith I'm mocking.

The hospital takes $137 and hides it in the vault? Is that your belief?
That money never leaves the hospital? Never ever?

 

[The Derp]

And this is needed only a small percentage of the time.

Prior to the ACA, 60% of all bankruptcies were medical related, with the average debt being $17K. Of those folks, 75% of them had insurance. They had those catastrophic plans you guys seem to think were so great...until you hit your lifetime cap, which all catastrophic plans had. So they weren't "catastrophic" plans at all. They were a rip-off.

This gets overblown because there are people like some on this board, who can't stand that doctors make good money.

So, every provider has a "chargemaster" which is a file that sets the price for every single thing that provider does and has. The "chargemaster" is cooked up between insurers and providers so they can overcharge for things in order to make themselves profitable. So if you go to the hospital for a procedure, and elect to pay cash, you may think you're getting a discount but you're not. The reality is you're paying the full rate in the chargemaster, but the provider quoted you a price above that knowing you will appeal for a "discount", so they "discount" you to the actual price your insurance would have paid anyway.

 

[Sun Devil 92]

Health insurance is like anything else, if you can afford it, you get it and reap the benefits of it. If you can't afford it, you're not entitled to it, so you don't get it. You can also choose (or should be able to choose) not to buy it, and if you get sick and need health care, pay for it out of your own pocket. If you can't pay for it, oh well. You go broke.

So it's real easy to say this when you're healthy and not incurring medical costs, but to force someone into bankruptcy for treatment of something out of their control makes no sense. It's ******* stupid, actually.

Who are you to decide if it is out of their control.

And why is it stupid ?

You think there isn't a good reason for bankruptcy ?

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

Exactly. That's why Obamacare covering pre-existing conditions means it isn't insurance any more.

So it doesn't insure you from financial ruin? Then what does insurance do, then?

It may protect you from financial ruin. It is no longer insurance.

Then what does insurance do, then?

It's a way to spread risk. 1000 people pay in, maybe 10 need treatment for something serious.

Allowing a new guy already diagnosed with cancer to enter that pool and take money the other thousand put in is more like theft.

 

[The Derp]

And who says who can afford and who can't ?
I've seen far to many situations where won't pay hospital bills while doing things like taking international vacations.

So, your anecdotal, third-hand account of something is not a sufficient piece of evidence to enter into this debate. We know the toll health care takes on people because before the ACA, 60% of all bankruptcies were medical related, with the average debt of $17K. Of those folks, 75% of them had insurance. Mostly those "catastrophic plans" you think are such a steal...until you hit your lifetime cap. So they're not really catastrophic plans at all. They're a rip-off.

 

[Sun Devil 92]

And this is needed only a small percentage of the time.

Prior to the ACA, 60% of all bankruptcies were medical related, with the average debt being $17K. Of those folks, 75% of them had insurance. They had those catastrophic plans you guys seem to think were so great...until you hit your lifetime cap, which all catastrophic plans had. So they weren't "catastrophic" plans at all. They were a rip-off.

More bullshit from the board bullshit artist.

17K isn't catastrophic. It's close to what you shell out every year for a Bronze plan.

Catastrophic plans were there for the 100K issues and they worked fine.

Calling them a rip off is just the ploy of you and the others who were so caught off guard when our liar and chief got caught with his pants down. Nobody every said a word about them until people lost them and lost their doctors too.

It's to bad you can't be less transparent in your lies.

 

[Sun Devil 92]

And who says who can afford and who can't ?
I've seen far to many situations where won't pay hospital bills while doing things like taking international vacations.

So, your anecdotal, third-hand account of something is not a sufficient piece of evidence to enter into this debate. We know the toll health care takes on people because before the ACA, 60% of all bankruptcies were medical related, with the average debt of $17K. Of those folks, 75% of them had insurance. Mostly those "catastrophic plans" you think are such a steal...until you hit your lifetime cap. So they're not really catastrophic plans at all. They're a rip-off.

Keep spouting the horseshit.

17K is the costs of a good used sedan. And those statistics by their own admission say they were "pushed over the top" by medical bills.

I am not aware of anyone who ever hit a lifetime cap on a catastrophic plan.

As CATO said, Obamacare made inexpensive insurance illegal.

Good job, ************.

 

[The Derp]

It's not the same thing.

It is exactly the same thing. Why do you think providers inflate the price of things like cotton swabs and tylenol? To make a profit at your expense.

And let's be clear...Obamacare has done nothing for costs.....period..

It has slowed the average growth in premiums below what it was pre-ACA, during Bush the Dumber. For those who qualify for subsidies, it has reduced their out-of-pocket costs. The most famous case being Julie Boonstra, the right-wing sow who starred in a Koch-prooduced ad ahead of the 2012 election claiming that her health care costs exploded because of Obamacare. After a reporter looked into her claims, it was revealed by her insurer that her health care costs didn't rise, but rather declined by $2,400...nearly the exact amount Obama said the average family would save. When confronted with these facts, Boonstra's response was "I choose to not believe that." So that's where we're at with you guys...you choose to not accept facts because of your egos.

You know an IV bag costs less than 1$ ? Provide the link. You gonna hook it up yourself...more power to you. But right now, you'll pay a nurse to do that.

All links are annotated in the below video. Go to 0:35. It is from Elizabeth Rosenthall's NYT article from December 2nd, 2013:

 

[RodISHI]

No! That is what you in your abject stupidity were talking about. I was talking about a payment plan.

Well, to be fair you said "health care plan". But OK...even though "payment plans" existed pre-ACA, 60% of all bankruptcies were medical related with the average debt at $17K. And of those folks, 75% of them had insurance (mostly catastrophic plans with lifetime caps). So putting someone on a payment plan didn't suddenly prevent them from filing bankruptcy.

Do you understand what a payment plan is? Or, do they garnish your ******* wages when you buy a car? You asshole!

They would garnish your wages if you didn't pay your car loan back and took you to court. Which is what health care providers did for unpaid medical bills before the ACA.

If Healthcare providers would start working to cure patients verses merely treat patients so they can keep them long term cash cows you may have an argument but the fact is you don't as the majority of the medical community now merely treats and does not attempt to cure. It works out for all those working to get a cut and most ignorant dumb asses don't have a clue they just willing take whatever shit the current medical establishment is willing to toss out there for them.

 

[The Derp]

The hospital takes $137 and hides it in the vault? Is that your belief?
That money never leaves the hospital? Never ever?

Wages stagnate for workers as profits for hospitals and insurance companies soar. So yes, they are holding onto that cash. Maybe they're stashing it overseas in Cayman Islands accounts. Or maybe they're just paying it to top executives in the forms of huge bonuses and compensation. Now comes the part where you say those wealthy executives will somehow spend the money in the economy, while also saying that you don't believe in "trickle down".

 

[The Derp]

Who are you to decide if it is out of their control.

Appendicitis, for example, is something out of your control. Would you agree?

You think there isn't a good reason for bankruptcy ?

Not unless you're Donald Trump and are looking to screw over people, not really.

 

[Sun Devil 92]

And who says who can afford and who can't ?
I've seen far to many situations where won't pay hospital bills while doing things like taking international vacations.

So, your anecdotal, third-hand account of something is not a sufficient piece of evidence to enter into this debate. We know the toll health care takes on people because before the ACA, 60% of all bankruptcies were medical related, with the average debt of $17K. Of those folks, 75% of them had insurance. Mostly those "catastrophic plans" you think are such a steal...until you hit your lifetime cap. So they're not really catastrophic plans at all. They're a rip-off.

You've provided no evidence. Your 60% number does not differetiate between medical and non medical costs.

Here are some facts.....

It's not the same thing.

It is exactly the same thing. Why do you think providers inflate the price of things like cotton swabs and tylenol? To make a profit at your expense.

And let's be clear...Obamacare has done nothing for costs.....period..

It has slowed the average growth in premiums below what it was pre-ACA, during Bush the Dumber. For those who qualify for subsidies, it has reduced their out-of-pocket costs. The most famous case being Julie Boonstra, the right-wing sow who starred in a Koch-prooduced ad ahead of the 2012 election claiming that her health care costs exploded because of Obamacare. After a reporter looked into her claims, it was revealed by her insurer that her health care costs didn't rise, but rather declined by $2,400...nearly the exact amount Obama said the average family would save. When confronted with these facts, Boonstra's response was "I choose to not believe that." So that's where we're at with you guys...you choose to not accept facts because of your egos.

You know an IV bag costs less than 1$ ? Provide the link. You gonna hook it up yourself...more power to you. But right now, you'll pay a nurse to do that.

All links are annotated in the below video. Go to 0:35. It is from

It's not the same thing.

It is exactly the same thing. Why do you think providers inflate the price of things like cotton swabs and tylenol? To make a profit at your expense.

And let's be clear...Obamacare has done nothing for costs.....period..

It has slowed the average growth in premiums below what it was pre-ACA, during Bush the Dumber. For those who qualify for subsidies, it has reduced their out-of-pocket costs. The most famous case being Julie Boonstra, the right-wing sow who starred in a Koch-prooduced ad ahead of the 2012 election claiming that her health care costs exploded because of Obamacare. After a reporter looked into her claims, it was revealed by her insurer that her health care costs didn't rise, but rather declined by $2,400...nearly the exact amount Obama said the average family would save. When confronted with these facts, Boonstra's response was "I choose to not believe that." So that's where we're at with you guys...you choose to not accept facts because of your egos.

You know an IV bag costs less than 1$ ? Provide the link. You gonna hook it up yourself...more power to you. But right now, you'll pay a nurse to do that.

All links are annotated in the below video. Go to 0:35. It is from Elizabeth Rosenthall's NYT article from December 2nd, 2013:

:

No mention of an IV bag costing less than 1$.

California...that far right wing bastion...has high medical costs.

Stitches where I live...don't cost but 15% of your NY bills.

 

[The Derp]

It may protect you from financial ruin. It is no longer insurance.

But you just said it was in an earlier post. So this is what I am talking about when I say you people don't know what health insurance is, don't know what health insurance companies do, and don't know how it relates to health care.

It's a way to spread risk.

To do what? Prevent financial ruin. Again, this is what I'm talking about when I say you people don't know what health insurance is, don't know what health insurance companies do, and don't know how it relates to health care.

1000 people pay in, maybe 10 need treatment for something serious.

But you don't know that. It could be 10, it could be all 1000. You don't know. And on top of that, you also don't know what medical needs you or anyone else will have day-to-day, so you have insurance to insure you against financial ruin in the event you do have medical needs. So you are simultaneously saying insurance doesn't protect you from financial ruin, while saying it protects you from financial ruin.

And that is why the cognitive dissonance is strong with you.

 

[Sun Devil 92]

The hospital takes $137 and hides it in the vault? Is that your belief?
That money never leaves the hospital? Never ever?

Wages stagnate for workers as profits for hospitals and insurance companies soar. So yes, they are holding onto that cash. Maybe they're stashing it overseas in Cayman Islands accounts. Or maybe they're just paying it to top executives in the forms of huge bonuses and compensation. Now comes the part where you say those wealthy executives will somehow spend the money in the economy, while also saying that you don't believe in "trickle down".

Well, isn't this a surpise ?

A left wing diatribe of standard talking points.

 

[Sun Devil 92]

To do what? Prevent financial ruin. Again, this is what I'm talking about when I say you people don't know what health insurance is, don't know what health insurance companies do, and don't know how it relates to health care.

More clueless crap.

It does not prevent financial ruin.

It guards against it, but there are no absolute protections.

You know what you want insurance to be. And it isn't that.

 

[Sun Devil 92]

It's not the same thing.

It is exactly the same thing. Why do you think providers inflate the price of things like cotton swabs and tylenol? To make a profit at your expense.

And let's be clear...Obamacare has done nothing for costs.....period..

It has slowed the average growth in premiums below what it was pre-ACA, during Bush the Dumber. For those who qualify for subsidies, it has reduced their out-of-pocket costs. The most famous case being Julie Boonstra, the right-wing sow who starred in a Koch-prooduced ad ahead of the 2012 election claiming that her health care costs exploded because of Obamacare. After a reporter looked into her claims, it was revealed by her insurer that her health care costs didn't rise, but rather declined by $2,400...nearly the exact amount Obama said the average family would save. When confronted with these facts, Boonstra's response was "I choose to not believe that." So that's where we're at with you guys...you choose to not accept facts because of your egos.

You know an IV bag costs less than 1$ ? Provide the link. You gonna hook it up yourself...more power to you. But right now, you'll pay a nurse to do that.

All links are annotated in the below video. Go to 0:35. It is from Elizabeth Rosenthall's NYT article from December 2nd, 2013:

All economists agreed that cost reductions were due to the sluggish economy.

Can you please STFU.