Did Pope Francis help the church by going woke?

[ding]

Donations.

So they do charitable acts to get more money to do more charitable acts? How dare they!

It seems your conspiracy theory is going up in smoke,

 

[ding]

Thanks for proving my point. However, that happens often.

What point did I prove? That you blame God for what men wrote and don't know how to interpret?

 

[gtopa1]

At Mass on Sunday we had some beautiful hymns from the 11th and 12th Centuries, the usual beautiful parts of the mass, knelt at the Altar Rails to receive communion and the sermon was on The Risen Lord. Sorry to burst the Anti-RC bubbles but the Church is as beautiful as ever it was.

ps: NEVER accept the media take on anything religious. The media are activists, NOT reporters!!!

Greg

 

[Cellblock2429]

https://shiftnews.com/article/CMSP2CHGCRRK4S1SC9J32E9GCRSK0SB26SHP6R9M69HKADHS6GV3MCHG68TJTC1M5MS3281G70X34CST68RKMKJ368?category=News

Francis Worked to Make Catholic Church More Inclusive​

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The cardinals who will choose Pope Francis' successor will have to decide whether to follow his path toward a more welcoming, global and collegial church or restore the more doctrinaire approach of his predecessors. Francis made strides in addressing the church's sexual abuse crisis and tackled its murky financial culture. He created thousands of bishops and appointed more than half of the College of Cardinals. He also reached out to Muslim leaders.

• The cardinals are at a crossroads, deciding whether to continue Pope Francis' vision of a more inclusive and global church or revert to the traditional stance of previous popes. This choice will spark significant discussions among them.
• Pope Francis leaves behind a complex legacy, as early hopes for a 'Francis effect' to boost church attendance in the secular West have largely not materialized, even as attendance grows in the global South.
• While Francis made notable progress in addressing the church's sexual abuse crisis and financial issues, the future direction he set is likely to be a contentious topic among the cardinals.
• His openness to discussing major theological issues like divorce, married priests, same-sex couples, and women's roles excited many liberal Catholics but raised concerns that a less reform-minded successor could undo these changes.
• Francis aimed to shift the church's trajectory away from the conservative paths of John Paul II and Benedict XVI, especially in response to the latter's failure to adequately address child sexual abuse within the church.
• Despite his progressive agenda, Francis was not afraid to confront conservative elements within the church, even dismissing high-ranking officials who resisted his vision.
• His global outreach, particularly in engaging with Muslim leaders and addressing issues affecting vulnerable Catholic communities, was significant, but his lasting impact is likely to be seen in the church's internal structure and the bishops he appointed who align with his priorities.

I referred to being more "inclusive" as being woke. Many may disagree, but it's the truth nonetheless.

Was it worth it? Did it help spread the gospel of Christ? According to church attendance, not so much.

Politically, did it help the church? Will governments around the world, which have progressively gotten more woke themselves, now treat the Catholic church better politically? If so, is that a good thing, considering that Christ basically upset every world government on earth as well as every religious institution, causing them to put him to death?

/---/ When you try to appease the perverts and pagans, you alienate your Christian base. It never works out well.

 

[Paradoxical#1]

So we have established that men wrote these accounts. So what you really mean to say is that these men could have said slavery was wrong, right? And yes, they could have. But what you don't understand is that these slaves were not forced slaves like in America, they were indentured servants who voluntarily entered into a contract with their "masters." And that the Jews were establishing standards for their treatment because back in that day they were not treated well. So you are criticizing a people who were actually raising the bar by arguing they should have done more.

So, you are proving an earlier post I made where I said I need a Christian to fill out a questionnaire. You do not believe that God inspired your Bible then?

 

[Paradoxical#1]

Really? Tell me all about it. Make sure to put it into the context of that day. Say like how they raised the bar for treating others. Then you can criticize them for not doing enough.

I am saying that the Bible simply copied previous laws and previous gods.

 

[Paradoxical#1]

A conspiracy this big should have left a trail of evidence, right? Where's your evidence? Maybe a whistleblower or something?

Evidence of what specifically? That Paul never had a vision? You are the one who needs to prove he did. Claims aren’t enough.

 

[Paradoxical#1]

You tell me. You are the one who thinks it's a conspiracy and should have done more.

All without any evidence or reason and logic. Amazing. Do tell me what you think the Church controls.

Donations from millions of fearful flock.

 

[Paradoxical#1]

So they do charitable acts to get more money to do more charitable acts? How dare they!

It seems your conspiracy theory is going up in smoke,

The Vatican is wealthy. No conspiracy there.

 

[Paradoxical#1]

Fuck that!

Religion ain’t meant to be inclusive and caring. It’s meant to dumb the people down and become white reactionary mouth breathers.

Blacks also believe. Not all believers are extremists.

 

[Paradoxical#1]

What point did I prove? That you blame God for what men wrote and don't know how to interpret?

That mere mortals wrote a rather crappy Bible without any “god” inspiration.

 

[otto105]

Blacks also believe. Not all believers are extremists.

Black christians have an aspect that white ones don't, a belief in social justice.

 

[Meriweather]

It is common for believers like yourself to say that a non believer just doesn’t know what he’s talking about and you know the correct translations from Hebrew and The dead and obscure language called Koine Greek. It is certainly a conversation stopper akin to a scientist who says the world will burn up in 40 years if we don’t all stop fossil fuels and he, as an expert knows this and we can’t possibly know more than him. I mean how can a mere layman dispute such things?

Except...I am not making predictions of the future like your hypothetical scientist. I merely had the interest and time to do the research--or like an archeologist, uncovering the past bit by bit. For some reason you don't like what has been uncovered.

Can’t know the Bible backwards, forwards, and upside down, and it’s still will not change the fact that everything in the Bible amount to claims of non-eyewitnesses to the events. As far as the gospels that were written after Paul, most all Bible experts maintain that they were written 40 to 80 years after the death of Jesus. You can claim that some of the accounts were the original apostles all you want, but they weren’t.

Yet, I have made no claims about this. Surviving Gospel accounts exist on the same plane as Socrates' Dialogues exist. You know, mainly through Plato, who helpfully wrote verbatim dialogues that were presented and mostly forgotten before Plato was even born.

Are you arguing we should disregard everything written about Jesus and Socrates? Or, would you like to catch a glimpse of each of these men through the eyes who either knew them or heard stories told by people close to those who had known Jesus/Socrates personally.

I don't understand why so many non-believers waste their time on the Bible. State the bottom line: I'll choose what I want and do what I want. I don't care what God wants. This begs the question, Why is it so important to convince others to follow you down this road?

 

[Paradoxical#1]

Black christians have an aspect that white ones don't, a belief in social justice.

What the hell does social justice mean?

 

[Paradoxical#1]

Except...I am not making predictions of the future like your hypothetical scientist. I merely had the interest and time to do the research--or like an archeologist, uncovering the past bit by bit. For some reason you don't like what has been uncovered.

Yet, I have made no claims about this. Surviving Gospel accounts exist on the same plane as Socrates' Dialogues exist. You know, mainly through Plato, who helpfully wrote verbatim dialogues that were presented and mostly forgotten before Plato was even born.

Are you arguing we should disregard everything written about Jesus and Socrates? Or, would you like to catch a glimpse of each of these men through the eyes who either knew them or heard stories told by people close to those who had known Jesus/Socrates personally.

I don't understand why so many non-believers waste their time on the Bible. State the bottom line: I'll choose what I want and do what I want. I don't care what God wants. This begs the question, Why is it so important to convince others to follow you down this road?

I just love the scare tactics of believers when they say a non believer doesn’t care what God wants. I don’t believe in your fabricated and imagined god so how does that apply to me? I only come here for my own amusement to see why people still believe in gods invented by primitives who were afraid of the elements and didn’t understand disease, drought, floods and made up hundreds of god stories.

Being that I was indoctrinated by nuns and family, I feel my duty to warn others of the propaganda, lies, myth, and indoctrination tactics employed by people such as yourself.

 

[Shamrock17]

What a crock of shit.... But you're good for those.

Russia's economy has doubled over the past 5 years.

Great Britain is nearly destroyed because of its inclusivity.

The Netherlands is nearly destroyed because of its inclusivity.

Sweden is nearly destroyed because of its inclusivity.

Ireland is closed behind.

The United States was almost destroyed by a woke idealogue, racist policy like DEI put in place solely for the Democratic Party to seek and keep power.

Let's look back. Liberal academia and entrance standards were totally unfair to those who deserved admission based on meritocracy. Some were not allowed admission based on their merits and achievement because it was seen unfair to those who students who were culturally disadvantaged, hence admission standards were based on DEI. (diversity, equity, inclusion)

Let's review how inclusion hurt the US. The liberals promise migrants who willingly break our immigration laws, some who overstay their visas, or notice to appear dates to manipulate our broken immigration system the world, (freebies), and in turn they get the illegals' children born in this country to keep voting for them, aka keeping them on the plantation with cradle to grave entitlements. If you don't agree with the Dems, you're a racist. This is their message when they go on the campaign trail. They pretend that transgenders should be able to play women's competitive sports, and if you disagree, you're labeled transphobic. What happened to women's equality?

I am a born and raised RC and we are told that we must agree with Pope Francis because Jesus was an illegal immigrant. I've had difficulty doing so under Pope Francis so I have stepped away from being a practicing Catholic though I am still a committed Christian. I do show mercy to those who seek to come to this country, but I also think people must do it the way it's supposed to be done, according to man's law, our US laws. Even in the Bible it says we are to obey man's laws. So, while Pope Francis was a proponent of showing mercy to immigrants, IMHO, he was out of touch with today's world. According to what the Pope professed, we shouldn't follow the laws, and just turn the blind eye, and allow everyone, to abuse our immigration law, just come on in. He saw the world has borderless. I understand that Pope Francis's parents were from Italy and migrated to Argentina. Nobody has a problem with people migrating but do it legally. If one is a true refugee, they will be granted asylum, and yes, the US needs to hire more help in that department to facilitate an easier process, so people aren't waiting forever. However, it's a myth to say that we are not Christian because we want our borders strongly enforced. I don't believe in guilting others to try to get them to lighten up on border control, so I didn't agree with Pope Francis in this regard. And yes, I do think it hurt him, and the church. I hope this changes with the next pope. They get back to being traditionally more conservative.

I do not believe Pope Francis was correct when it came to "wokeness". Being woke is not being merciful. Woke is a system the liberals used to keep people voting for them. They use skin color, gender, inequality, disability as wedge issues during election time. It didn't work so well for them last November.

A country without borders is not a sovereign nation. Even Vatican City enforced their borders. The next Pope should not be one who preaches do what I say and not what I do.

 

[Meriweather]

I just love the scare tactics of believers when they say a non believer doesn’t care what God wants. I don’t believe in your fabricated and imagined god so how does that apply to me? I only come here for my own amusement to see why people still believe in gods invented by primitives who were afraid of the elements and didn’t understand disease, drought, floods and made up hundreds of god stories.

What is scary about choosing to do what you want rather than what anyone else wants, including God?

You may not know my history. My grandfather was atheist. Like my grandmother, I married an atheist. My grandfather told me that he would like to believe, tried to believe but always knew he did not believe--and he was fine with that. He was a good man. My husband told me that he is just as much agnostic as atheist. He said he doesn't want to know if God exists because he wants to get through this life on his own, in his own way. He's scientific minded in the fact one cannot prove a negative (cannot prove God doesn't exist) and he doesn't waste time on attempting that or on the Bible. He truly is a fan of, I did it my way....

My extended family included Catholics, Protestants, Atheists, Buddhist, where everyone was happy with him/herself and happy to let everyone else be and believe as fit them. We never felt the need to prove anything either for our own beliefs or against another's beliefs. There was never a need to tear down the Bible or another's creed or lack of creed.

God is not fabricated. I do not take this on faith, I know this. As the saying goes, knowing is both a blessing and a curse. I truly understand Jesus' words about, "Blessed are those who have not seen and yet believe." Sometimes it's easier not knowing.

Are you a proponent of the idea that the only reason people want a spouse or friends is due to fear? If you have no spouse or friends do you imagine this is because you are fearless?

Being that I was indoctrinated by nuns and family, I feel my duty to warn others of the propaganda, lies, myth, and indoctrination tactics employed by people such as yourself.

Oh. You were so scared and fearful as a child, your parents and teachers felt they had to try to soothe you by telling you stories about God. (Remember, this is your theory, not mine.)

Were you also indoctrinated into learning math, history, science, and sports? I'm happy to hear you got through childish weak mindedness by concluding instead of thinking things through, you would just make things easier for yourself by choosing the opposite.

Anyway, you're in good company. One poster here says he figured it out by the time he was twelve. Another says he figured it out by the time he was six. As for me...I'm still working on figuring it out. And having a great time along the way. But then, I wasn't a fearful child and nor am I a fearful adult.

 

[Shamrock17]

"Blessed are the merciful, for they shall inherit the Kingdom of God." -JC

The truly merciful are people who show compassion, forgiveness, and kindness toward others, especially those who are suffering or have wronged them. Mercy involves empathy and acting with love, even when it’s undeserved, mirroring God’s grace toward humanity. Was this your point? If not, what is your point?

 

[Shamrock17]

All of what you say is accurate, but I disagree that it was a step in the right direction. I was raised by nuns in a very large Catholic family and was a believer until my mid twenties. The Catholic church is waning in the United States because as humans become more intelligent and have information available ti them with a few strokes on a keyboard they are seeing the lies and deceit of the Catholic religion. I ask a very simple question as to how Christianity can now say that LGTBQ are embraced when the Old Testament God said, "Homosexuals are an abomination and deserve death" and am met with silence. Some say that wasn't Jesus who said that but "God". But they can't explain how and why Jesus, his son, corrected his father of the OT especially when the bible is supposed to be timeless and inerrant and was until the mid 1900s when the church started to see declining attendance because of its subjugation of women and declared that they were wrong...women really are equal to men and don't have to obey them.

If they were an institution that didn't claim that the book they follow was timeless and written by a creator, I would be fine with their changes because hating gays and treating women as property is a bad thing. But, not to hear the bible tell it. So, they changed not because of any "deeper understanding of scripture" but because of diminishing attendance and donations. Now they go after the easy marks, the third worlders.

God forgive me for saying this but IMHO, Pope Francis became more woke, some might call that "deceitful", because the numbers of parishioners are drastically down over recent decades.. Showing more mercy to illegal immigrants, transgenders, gays was done as an effort to bring in more people to the Church. The teachings in the Bible should never be watered down in order to attract more to come to mass on Sunday morning. I think Pope Francis was wrong to preach to us, "who am I to judge" when in fact the Bible demands that we judge.

 

[JoeB131]

I can tell by the lack of pomp and circumstance over his death compared to other Popes upon their death that he was not as loved in the church as our media was... He was a media darling and that made him rush to become even more woke...
That harmed the Catholic Church especially in America and why the church here wants open borders so bad... to bring in Catholics from south America to fill the pews.... and the donation basket...

Or he just didn't want the kind of pomp dead popes get.

I can barely remember what they did when they buried Ratzinger like the cat turd he was.

The Church's position on immigration really hasn't changed in some time, this wasn't anything new with Francis.