Dems got the Trump Racism thing all wrong

[forkup]

Lets get real for a second. If you are partisan spinner on either side please leave now. Here's the deal. Trump made a stupid ignorant statement the other day when he said he didn't want people from Shithole countries coming here. His lackies are looking like fools trying to make excuses for him, trying to make this thing about a PC language issue or pretending that he was simply talking about the conditions of 3rd world countries, or spreading the idiotic narrative that he didn't even say it. Its embarrassing for them. On the flip side, the dems are over playing their hand by going after Trump as a Racist... Let me explain.

I understand the racist argument that the Left is making based on Trumps statements, but I believe that to be subjective and over played. The real issue from what i've seen has more to do with class. Trump doesn't want poor uneducated people coming into our Country. His statement was discriminatory, no question, so lets be accurate and call it that. I don't think Trump would have a problem with a bunch of Ben Carson's coming into our country, I don't think it is a race issue.

Trump wants merit based immigration where we give priority to people who have proven that they have something to contribute to society. People with achievements in education, work, or monetary means have proven merit under his standards and those who are poor or uneducated do not have the same merit. I don't agree with Trump, I believe in giving people opportunity and that nobody is better than the other just because they are born somewhere else or born with more means than another. I also believe that people from poor countries represent a perspective that those from rich countries don't have. They have a great sense of appreciation for opportunity and the American dream because they have gone through the struggle of not having it. That is a valuable perspective to have.

I understand given Trumps history that a link can be made to say that he may assume people of color to fit a certain stereotype unless they have proven otherwise and with that a case for Racism could be made. However, I'd like to see our political discussion less polarized and hyperbolized and more realistic based on the facts. Dems should stop with the hyperfocus on Racism and call this what it is, class based discrimination... Reps need to stop being spin doctor puppets... and Trump needs to grow the fuck up and start acting like a leader

It's not that I disagree, but I have a serious question. How do you objectively judge something without taking the past in consideration? The statement, when standing on itself could, and should be taken as discriminatory but not actually racist, but considering a lot of different incidents it fits something which makes the actual statement less a mistake and more a pattern. I also want to point out that objectivity never stopped Republicans to go after Hillary so calling for it rings a bit hollow.

I agree with you and history does play a role when analyzing the character of a person. This latest comment certainly reenforces the narrative that Trump is a racist for those who believe he is. I just don't think that needs to be the main heading spinning 24/7 from our news outlets. You are taking a smaller subjective point and making it the focus and it reenforces the Media bias narrative that is driving Trumps Fake News campaign. I think it is counter productive. As to your point about the Republicans doing it to Hillary, don't go there. The "whatabout" diversion is something that Trump does all the time to take the focus off the subject at hand. You don't like it when he does it so don't do it yourself. Do better.

Pointing out that POTUS is racist is not counterproductive at least from a political standpoint, it energizes Democrats to want to go out and vote. Not talking morals just purely political. I do want to know what your goal is? If you want people to start judging politicians on their merits, you are a bit naive. Don't get me wrong, it's commendable. But Real politics is as old as politics itself, and trying to fight fair when the other side has no interest in doing so, just sets you up to lose.

 

[Slade3200]

What Trump should've said:

"Too many 3rd world countries ARE shitholes. We welcome ANY who yearn to be free and want to escape these shitholes. What we don't welcome are those who want to come here seeking government handouts. And we must be more careful with who we let in."

Haha, I don't know if he should have said that... but if he did, I don't think there would be this controversy, and it would be much easier to defend.

 

[John Shaw]

Lets get real for a second. If you are partisan spinner on either side please leave now. Here's the deal. Trump made a stupid ignorant statement the other day when he said he didn't want people from Shithole countries coming here. His lackies are looking like fools trying to make excuses for him, trying to make this thing about a PC language issue or pretending that he was simply talking about the conditions of 3rd world countries, or spreading the idiotic narrative that he didn't even say it. Its embarrassing for them. On the flip side, the dems are over playing their hand by going after Trump as a Racist... Let me explain.

I understand the racist argument that the Left is making based on Trumps statements, but I believe that to be subjective and over played. The real issue from what i've seen has more to do with class. Trump doesn't want poor uneducated people coming into our Country. His statement was discriminatory, no question, so lets be accurate and call it that. I don't think Trump would have a problem with a bunch of Ben Carson's coming into our country, I don't think it is a race issue.

Trump wants merit based immigration where we give priority to people who have proven that they have something to contribute to society. People with achievements in education, work, or monetary means have proven merit under his standards and those who are poor or uneducated do not have the same merit. I don't agree with Trump, I believe in giving people opportunity and that nobody is better than the other just because they are born somewhere else or born with more means than another. I also believe that people from poor countries represent a perspective that those from rich countries don't have. They have a great sense of appreciation for opportunity and the American dream because they have gone through the struggle of not having it. That is a valuable perspective to have.

I understand given Trumps history that a link can be made to say that he may assume people of color to fit a certain stereotype unless they have proven otherwise and with that a case for Racism could be made. However, I'd like to see our political discussion less polarized and hyperbolized and more realistic based on the facts. Dems should stop with the hyperfocus on Racism and call this what it is, class based discrimination... Reps need to stop being spin doctor puppets... and Trump needs to grow the fuck up and start acting like a leader

It's not that I disagree, but I have a serious question. How do you objectively judge something without taking the past in consideration? The statement, when standing on itself could, and should be taken as discriminatory but not actually racist, but considering a lot of different incidents it fits something which makes the actual statement less a mistake and more a pattern. I also want to point out that objectivity never stopped Republicans to go after Hillary so calling for it rings a bit hollow.

I agree with you and history does play a role when analyzing the character of a person. This latest comment certainly reenforces the narrative that Trump is a racist for those who believe he is. I just don't think that needs to be the main heading spinning 24/7 from our news outlets. You are taking a smaller subjective point and making it the focus and it reenforces the Media bias narrative that is driving Trumps Fake News campaign. I think it is counter productive. As to your point about the Republicans doing it to Hillary, don't go there. The "whatabout" diversion is something that Trump does all the time to take the focus off the subject at hand. You don't like it when he does it so don't do it yourself. Do better.

Pointing out that POTUS is racist is not counterproductive at least from a political standpoint, it energizes Democrats to want to go out and vote. Not talking morals just purely political. I do want to know what your goal is? If you want people to start judging politics on its merits, you are a bit naive. Don't get me wrong, it's commendable. But Real politics is as old as politics itself, and trying to fight fair when the other side has no interest in doing so, just sets you up to lose.

It doesn't energize white people though, who already feel as though they are being blamed for any sort of indiscretion on the part of any white person, while they themselves are fair game to be ridiculed and lectured to.

Just leave the race stuff out of it. I genuinely don't think it's effective.

 

[dcbl]

I don't know why you try so hard to point out Dem hypocrisy when Reps are attacked. Im sure you hate it when its done to you, and how does it help the conversation? It is very juvenile. Both political parties are extremely hypocritical because they are trying to progress their agenda and decent standards of privacy, honesty, and fair intensions are pretty much out the window. It is now a dirty fight for the dishonesty and hypocrisy are only going to go up from both sides.

the attacks on Trump go beyond juvenile and the hypocrisy from the left is mind boggling

again, I am not saying the republicans are so full of virtue; but I do not see republicans working against American interests to score political points

 

[Slade3200]

Yeah, We are likely to turn some moderate Dems into alt-right crazies if we keep telling Trump that he is making racist statements. We'd better cool it.

Just looking for honest conversation. Do you object to that?

the honest answer is that clear thinking people that are not political junkies will migrate towards Trump as they continue to see the histrionic and unreasonable reactions to Trump

the allegations and attacks on Trump border on laughable and wind up making "moderates" less likely to believe anything said about him

2 scoops; Trump had 2 scoops of ice cream when everybody else only got 1

he called Haiti a shithole? Well, Haiti is a shithole; and no we don't want people coming here that add nothing of value

these types of attacks will backfire

I don't agree. The attacks on Trump spawn off real things that Trump says or does. The spin my be hyperbolic, but Trump won a presidential election using hyperbole. People can see and hear from the source whats going on. Bias analysis in the media isn't going to blind them from the facts, and many of the facts and statements from Trump are very polarizing that moderates wouldn't support

 

[basquebromance]

I still have no problem with a President swearing. I'm sure even George Washington cussed. Grow up people.

 

[tycho1572]

I posted a thread the other day of all the racist things he’s said and done from the 1970’s - present.
Saying he’s not a racist is ignoring the evidence.

What would you say to this woman.......?

 

[Slade3200]

"Too many 3rd world countries ARE shitholes. We welcome ANY who yearn to be free and want to escape these shitholes. What we don't welcome are those who want to come here seeking government handouts. And we must be more careful with who we let in."

he was in a closed door meeting of people allegedly seeking compromise and solutions

Durbin obviously cares more about political theater than he does about his country

and this particular incident will wind up helping Trump with the general public

Trump's comment was not supposed to be public

My guess is that the show that we witnessed in the open door meeting the day before was not reflected in the room during the closed door meeting. Durbin presented the bipartisan bill they have been working for for months and got shut down by Trump. So he politicized the matter by making public what Trump said. In one day, Trump when from an open minded unifier on the verge of passing an immigration reform bill that he could tout as another win, to a close minded bigot who is dividing this country and fostering chaos. I don't like Dubins move, but I see the strategy and effectiveness behind it. #dirtypolitics.

 

[dcbl]

I don't agree. The attacks on Trump spawn off real things that Trump says or does. The spin my be hyperbolic, but Trump won a presidential election using hyperbole. People can see and hear from the source whats going on. Bias analysis in the media isn't going to blind them from the facts, and many of the facts and statements from Trump are very polarizing that moderates wouldn't support

there has been zero effort from the left to seek compromise

they want to point to the Obamacare vote as a precedent; but that is ridiculous, as a major bill that affects 20% + of the economy that was written without any input from the other side is a much different animal than a tax cut

Obama had a republican congress to deal with in his 2nd term & republicans certainly compromised with him on policy issues

my opinion is that the over the top attacks against everything Trump wants to do will backfire on the left

 

[Slade3200]

I posted a thread the other day of all the racist things he’s said and done from the 1970’s - present.
Saying he’s not a racist is ignoring the evidence.

It is counter productive in my opinion when you take a discriminatory comment that isn't racist on the face and turn it into a 24/7 multi-day headline of our Racist president. All it does is hyper polarize each side. You may strengthen your opposition to Trump but you are also strengthening his supporters in their opposition to you. The wings get stronger and the middle stays extremely frustrated.

Prior to this, I did not take his comments as racist so much as ignorant.

The latest one - when he takes all of Africa (almost entirely black) and Haiti (black) - and lumps them into one category "shithole" while holding up Norway...is very disconcerting.

It is difficult to take it any other way....

But you realize he is talking about poor countries and poor, uneducated people right? He brought up Norway, i'm assuming, because he just met with their leader and they are one of the richest countries in the world. In Trumps mind he is thinking, I want to bring rich, smart, successful people over here, not poor, uneducated, 3rd world people... Get what i'm saying?

I do get what you are saying...it's just hard to think of what he said without a racial overtone - there are many poor countries not in Africa and not Haiti...former E. European Soviet Bloc nations for example...Asian countries....large swathes of India....

Either what he said was racist or - horribly ignorant.

I think it was in context to the conversation they were having as they were reviewing countries that had received Temporary legal status in the US for large groups of their people to come live here.

 

[william the wie]

Trump always pulls something out of his butt to make the Ds go nuts and that is his goal. Every time Pelosi or Schumer let one of their surrogates drool like a lunatic or do so themselves they push the center into his grasp. Hard ball yes but bad politics no. His goal is to marginalize the Ds and he is achieving that goal.

 

[John Shaw]

Trump always pulls something out of his butt to make the Ds go nuts and that is his goal. Every time Pelosi or Schumer let one of their surrogates drool like a lunatic or do so themselves they push the center into his grasp. Hard ball yes but bad politics no. His goal is to marginalize the Ds and he is achieving that goal.

At the same time, we in the center would like the DACA and immigration reform to get taken care of. Keep the kids, keep out illegals, and merit-based.

All this infighting is so tiresome. Just fucking do some goddamn work.

 

[dcbl]

My guess is that the show that we witnessed in the open door meeting the day before was not reflected in the room during the closed door meeting. Durbin presented the bipartisan bill they have been working for for months and got shut down by Trump. So he politicized the matter by making public what Trump said. In one day, Trump when from an open minded unifier on the verge of passing an immigration reform bill that he could tout as another win, to a close minded bigot who is dividing this country and fostering chaos. I don't like Dubins move, but I see the strategy and effectiveness behind it. #dirtypolitics.

bipartisan?

Trump has made it clear that he won't support any immigration bill that does not include funding for the wall

so, he kept another promise

the wall is not very important to me; but that was a key issue of Trump's campaign and I respect his stance that any immigration compromise has to include funding

elections have consequences

 

[forkup]

Lets get real for a second. If you are partisan spinner on either side please leave now. Here's the deal. Trump made a stupid ignorant statement the other day when he said he didn't want people from Shithole countries coming here. His lackies are looking like fools trying to make excuses for him, trying to make this thing about a PC language issue or pretending that he was simply talking about the conditions of 3rd world countries, or spreading the idiotic narrative that he didn't even say it. Its embarrassing for them. On the flip side, the dems are over playing their hand by going after Trump as a Racist... Let me explain.

I understand the racist argument that the Left is making based on Trumps statements, but I believe that to be subjective and over played. The real issue from what i've seen has more to do with class. Trump doesn't want poor uneducated people coming into our Country. His statement was discriminatory, no question, so lets be accurate and call it that. I don't think Trump would have a problem with a bunch of Ben Carson's coming into our country, I don't think it is a race issue.

Trump wants merit based immigration where we give priority to people who have proven that they have something to contribute to society. People with achievements in education, work, or monetary means have proven merit under his standards and those who are poor or uneducated do not have the same merit. I don't agree with Trump, I believe in giving people opportunity and that nobody is better than the other just because they are born somewhere else or born with more means than another. I also believe that people from poor countries represent a perspective that those from rich countries don't have. They have a great sense of appreciation for opportunity and the American dream because they have gone through the struggle of not having it. That is a valuable perspective to have.

I understand given Trumps history that a link can be made to say that he may assume people of color to fit a certain stereotype unless they have proven otherwise and with that a case for Racism could be made. However, I'd like to see our political discussion less polarized and hyperbolized and more realistic based on the facts. Dems should stop with the hyperfocus on Racism and call this what it is, class based discrimination... Reps need to stop being spin doctor puppets... and Trump needs to grow the fuck up and start acting like a leader

It's not that I disagree, but I have a serious question. How do you objectively judge something without taking the past in consideration? The statement, when standing on itself could, and should be taken as discriminatory but not actually racist, but considering a lot of different incidents it fits something which makes the actual statement less a mistake and more a pattern. I also want to point out that objectivity never stopped Republicans to go after Hillary so calling for it rings a bit hollow.

I agree with you and history does play a role when analyzing the character of a person. This latest comment certainly reenforces the narrative that Trump is a racist for those who believe he is. I just don't think that needs to be the main heading spinning 24/7 from our news outlets. You are taking a smaller subjective point and making it the focus and it reenforces the Media bias narrative that is driving Trumps Fake News campaign. I think it is counter productive. As to your point about the Republicans doing it to Hillary, don't go there. The "whatabout" diversion is something that Trump does all the time to take the focus off the subject at hand. You don't like it when he does it so don't do it yourself. Do better.

Pointing out that POTUS is racist is not counterproductive at least from a political standpoint, it energizes Democrats to want to go out and vote. Not talking morals just purely political. I do want to know what your goal is? If you want people to start judging politics on its merits, you are a bit naive. Don't get me wrong, it's commendable. But Real politics is as old as politics itself, and trying to fight fair when the other side has no interest in doing so, just sets you up to lose.

It doesn't energize white people though, who already feel as though they are being blamed for any sort of indiscretion on the part of any white person, while they themselves are fair game to be ridiculed and lectured to.

Just leave the race stuff out of it. I genuinely don't think it's effective.

All polls suggest Trump is losing support across the board, this includes white people. Shares our values is one of the questions he scores abysmal at, don't you think perceived racism has nothing to do with those numbers? Again I'd like Trump being disqualified for better reasons then his views on race. Sadly since Americans care more about race then about for instance foreign relations, that's the card that will be played.

 

[John Shaw]

Lets get real for a second. If you are partisan spinner on either side please leave now. Here's the deal. Trump made a stupid ignorant statement the other day when he said he didn't want people from Shithole countries coming here. His lackies are looking like fools trying to make excuses for him, trying to make this thing about a PC language issue or pretending that he was simply talking about the conditions of 3rd world countries, or spreading the idiotic narrative that he didn't even say it. Its embarrassing for them. On the flip side, the dems are over playing their hand by going after Trump as a Racist... Let me explain.

I understand the racist argument that the Left is making based on Trumps statements, but I believe that to be subjective and over played. The real issue from what i've seen has more to do with class. Trump doesn't want poor uneducated people coming into our Country. His statement was discriminatory, no question, so lets be accurate and call it that. I don't think Trump would have a problem with a bunch of Ben Carson's coming into our country, I don't think it is a race issue.

Trump wants merit based immigration where we give priority to people who have proven that they have something to contribute to society. People with achievements in education, work, or monetary means have proven merit under his standards and those who are poor or uneducated do not have the same merit. I don't agree with Trump, I believe in giving people opportunity and that nobody is better than the other just because they are born somewhere else or born with more means than another. I also believe that people from poor countries represent a perspective that those from rich countries don't have. They have a great sense of appreciation for opportunity and the American dream because they have gone through the struggle of not having it. That is a valuable perspective to have.

I understand given Trumps history that a link can be made to say that he may assume people of color to fit a certain stereotype unless they have proven otherwise and with that a case for Racism could be made. However, I'd like to see our political discussion less polarized and hyperbolized and more realistic based on the facts. Dems should stop with the hyperfocus on Racism and call this what it is, class based discrimination... Reps need to stop being spin doctor puppets... and Trump needs to grow the fuck up and start acting like a leader

It's not that I disagree, but I have a serious question. How do you objectively judge something without taking the past in consideration? The statement, when standing on itself could, and should be taken as discriminatory but not actually racist, but considering a lot of different incidents it fits something which makes the actual statement less a mistake and more a pattern. I also want to point out that objectivity never stopped Republicans to go after Hillary so calling for it rings a bit hollow.

I agree with you and history does play a role when analyzing the character of a person. This latest comment certainly reenforces the narrative that Trump is a racist for those who believe he is. I just don't think that needs to be the main heading spinning 24/7 from our news outlets. You are taking a smaller subjective point and making it the focus and it reenforces the Media bias narrative that is driving Trumps Fake News campaign. I think it is counter productive. As to your point about the Republicans doing it to Hillary, don't go there. The "whatabout" diversion is something that Trump does all the time to take the focus off the subject at hand. You don't like it when he does it so don't do it yourself. Do better.

Pointing out that POTUS is racist is not counterproductive at least from a political standpoint, it energizes Democrats to want to go out and vote. Not talking morals just purely political. I do want to know what your goal is? If you want people to start judging politics on its merits, you are a bit naive. Don't get me wrong, it's commendable. But Real politics is as old as politics itself, and trying to fight fair when the other side has no interest in doing so, just sets you up to lose.

It doesn't energize white people though, who already feel as though they are being blamed for any sort of indiscretion on the part of any white person, while they themselves are fair game to be ridiculed and lectured to.

Just leave the race stuff out of it. I genuinely don't think it's effective.

All polls suggest Trump is losing support across the board, this includes white people. Shares our values is one of the questions he scores abysmal at, don't you think perceived racism has nothing to do with those numbers? Again I'd like Trump being disqualified for better reasons then his views on race. Sadly since Americans care more about race then about for instance foreign relations, that's the card that will be played.

I think they are running the risk of going overboard with it. It is a slippery slope issue; if this is considered racism, then what isn't? Suddenly it becomes acceptable to accuse someone (probably a white person) of racism for any minor indiscretion or unwise statement or generality. That sort of toxic environment is obviously going to hurt whites more than any other group, since they are already the only ones who really get accused of racism (there are very big segments of academia who think only white people can be racist at all).

Let the president's ill-conceived statements stand for themselves. Stop injecting racism where it doesn't exist.

 

[Slade3200]

Lets get real for a second. If you are partisan spinner on either side please leave now. Here's the deal. Trump made a stupid ignorant statement the other day when he said he didn't want people from Shithole countries coming here. His lackies are looking like fools trying to make excuses for him, trying to make this thing about a PC language issue or pretending that he was simply talking about the conditions of 3rd world countries, or spreading the idiotic narrative that he didn't even say it. Its embarrassing for them. On the flip side, the dems are over playing their hand by going after Trump as a Racist... Let me explain.

I understand the racist argument that the Left is making based on Trumps statements, but I believe that to be subjective and over played. The real issue from what i've seen has more to do with class. Trump doesn't want poor uneducated people coming into our Country. His statement was discriminatory, no question, so lets be accurate and call it that. I don't think Trump would have a problem with a bunch of Ben Carson's coming into our country, I don't think it is a race issue.

Trump wants merit based immigration where we give priority to people who have proven that they have something to contribute to society. People with achievements in education, work, or monetary means have proven merit under his standards and those who are poor or uneducated do not have the same merit. I don't agree with Trump, I believe in giving people opportunity and that nobody is better than the other just because they are born somewhere else or born with more means than another. I also believe that people from poor countries represent a perspective that those from rich countries don't have. They have a great sense of appreciation for opportunity and the American dream because they have gone through the struggle of not having it. That is a valuable perspective to have.

I understand given Trumps history that a link can be made to say that he may assume people of color to fit a certain stereotype unless they have proven otherwise and with that a case for Racism could be made. However, I'd like to see our political discussion less polarized and hyperbolized and more realistic based on the facts. Dems should stop with the hyperfocus on Racism and call this what it is, class based discrimination... Reps need to stop being spin doctor puppets... and Trump needs to grow the fuck up and start acting like a leader

It's not that I disagree, but I have a serious question. How do you objectively judge something without taking the past in consideration? The statement, when standing on itself could, and should be taken as discriminatory but not actually racist, but considering a lot of different incidents it fits something which makes the actual statement less a mistake and more a pattern. I also want to point out that objectivity never stopped Republicans to go after Hillary so calling for it rings a bit hollow.

I agree with you and history does play a role when analyzing the character of a person. This latest comment certainly reenforces the narrative that Trump is a racist for those who believe he is. I just don't think that needs to be the main heading spinning 24/7 from our news outlets. You are taking a smaller subjective point and making it the focus and it reenforces the Media bias narrative that is driving Trumps Fake News campaign. I think it is counter productive. As to your point about the Republicans doing it to Hillary, don't go there. The "whatabout" diversion is something that Trump does all the time to take the focus off the subject at hand. You don't like it when he does it so don't do it yourself. Do better.

Pointing out that POTUS is racist is not counterproductive at least from a political standpoint, it energizes Democrats to want to go out and vote. Not talking morals just purely political. I do want to know what your goal is? If you want people to start judging politicians on their merits, you are a bit naive. Don't get me wrong, it's commendable. But Real politics is as old as politics itself, and trying to fight fair when the other side has no interest in doing so, just sets you up to lose.

I pointed that out in the OP. I realize it energizes the Dem base, but it also energizes Trumps base and polarizes moderates which in my opinion is not productive for our country as a whole. My goal is simple... To engage in more honest and respectful conversations so we can work together to build a better nation. Stop the trend of dirty politics, demonization, hyperbole, and dishonesty that is destroying our discourse and polarizing our leaders and our people

 

[forkup]

It's not that I disagree, but I have a serious question. How do you objectively judge something without taking the past in consideration? The statement, when standing on itself could, and should be taken as discriminatory but not actually racist, but considering a lot of different incidents it fits something which makes the actual statement less a mistake and more a pattern. I also want to point out that objectivity never stopped Republicans to go after Hillary so calling for it rings a bit hollow.

I agree with you and history does play a role when analyzing the character of a person. This latest comment certainly reenforces the narrative that Trump is a racist for those who believe he is. I just don't think that needs to be the main heading spinning 24/7 from our news outlets. You are taking a smaller subjective point and making it the focus and it reenforces the Media bias narrative that is driving Trumps Fake News campaign. I think it is counter productive. As to your point about the Republicans doing it to Hillary, don't go there. The "whatabout" diversion is something that Trump does all the time to take the focus off the subject at hand. You don't like it when he does it so don't do it yourself. Do better.

Pointing out that POTUS is racist is not counterproductive at least from a political standpoint, it energizes Democrats to want to go out and vote. Not talking morals just purely political. I do want to know what your goal is? If you want people to start judging politics on its merits, you are a bit naive. Don't get me wrong, it's commendable. But Real politics is as old as politics itself, and trying to fight fair when the other side has no interest in doing so, just sets you up to lose.

It doesn't energize white people though, who already feel as though they are being blamed for any sort of indiscretion on the part of any white person, while they themselves are fair game to be ridiculed and lectured to.

Just leave the race stuff out of it. I genuinely don't think it's effective.

All polls suggest Trump is losing support across the board, this includes white people. Shares our values is one of the questions he scores abysmal at, don't you think perceived racism has nothing to do with those numbers? Again I'd like Trump being disqualified for better reasons then his views on race. Sadly since Americans care more about race then about for instance foreign relations, that's the card that will be played.

I think they are running the risk of going overboard with it. It is a slippery slope issue; if this is considered racism, then what isn't? Suddenly it becomes acceptable to accuse someone (probably a white person) of racism for any minor indiscretion or unwise statement or generality. That sort of toxic environment is obviously going to hurt whites more than any other group, since they are already the only ones who really get accused of racism (there are very big segments of academia who think only white people can be racist at all).

Let the president's ill-conceived statements stand for themselves. Stop injecting racism where it doesn't exist.

If you refuse to report on those ill-conceived statements, it never happened don't you think? I completely get what you're getting at, I truly do. My problem is, like I said the whole,"we fight fair issue". Democrats suck at politics. They suck because they rather lose elections then be viewed unreasonable, you can't run campaigns if you aren't willing to fight bare knuckle. This means you realize you will not win the white 50 something vote. This means you will have to go after the millennials and the minority vote. You can't win those votes if you run for the hills every time race comes up.

 

[John Shaw]

I agree with you and history does play a role when analyzing the character of a person. This latest comment certainly reenforces the narrative that Trump is a racist for those who believe he is. I just don't think that needs to be the main heading spinning 24/7 from our news outlets. You are taking a smaller subjective point and making it the focus and it reenforces the Media bias narrative that is driving Trumps Fake News campaign. I think it is counter productive. As to your point about the Republicans doing it to Hillary, don't go there. The "whatabout" diversion is something that Trump does all the time to take the focus off the subject at hand. You don't like it when he does it so don't do it yourself. Do better.

Pointing out that POTUS is racist is not counterproductive at least from a political standpoint, it energizes Democrats to want to go out and vote. Not talking morals just purely political. I do want to know what your goal is? If you want people to start judging politics on its merits, you are a bit naive. Don't get me wrong, it's commendable. But Real politics is as old as politics itself, and trying to fight fair when the other side has no interest in doing so, just sets you up to lose.

It doesn't energize white people though, who already feel as though they are being blamed for any sort of indiscretion on the part of any white person, while they themselves are fair game to be ridiculed and lectured to.

Just leave the race stuff out of it. I genuinely don't think it's effective.

All polls suggest Trump is losing support across the board, this includes white people. Shares our values is one of the questions he scores abysmal at, don't you think perceived racism has nothing to do with those numbers? Again I'd like Trump being disqualified for better reasons then his views on race. Sadly since Americans care more about race then about for instance foreign relations, that's the card that will be played.

I think they are running the risk of going overboard with it. It is a slippery slope issue; if this is considered racism, then what isn't? Suddenly it becomes acceptable to accuse someone (probably a white person) of racism for any minor indiscretion or unwise statement or generality. That sort of toxic environment is obviously going to hurt whites more than any other group, since they are already the only ones who really get accused of racism (there are very big segments of academia who think only white people can be racist at all).

Let the president's ill-conceived statements stand for themselves. Stop injecting racism where it doesn't exist.

If you refuse to report on those ill-conceived statements, it never happened don't you think? I completely get what you're getting at, I truly do. My problem is, like I said the whole,"we fight fair issue". Democrats suck at politics. They suck because they rather lose elections then be viewed unreasonable, you can't run campaigns if you aren't willing to fight bare knuckle. This means you realize you will not win the white 50 something vote. This means you will have to go after the millennials and the minority vote. You can't win those votes if you run for the hills every time race comes up.

I am a millennial and this shit is a huge turn off to me. And I'm not conceited enough to think myself highly unique, either.

 

[Slade3200]

I don't know why you try so hard to point out Dem hypocrisy when Reps are attacked. Im sure you hate it when its done to you, and how does it help the conversation? It is very juvenile. Both political parties are extremely hypocritical because they are trying to progress their agenda and decent standards of privacy, honesty, and fair intensions are pretty much out the window. It is now a dirty fight for the dishonesty and hypocrisy are only going to go up from both sides.

the attacks on Trump go beyond juvenile and the hypocrisy from the left is mind boggling

again, I am not saying the republicans are so full of virtue; but I do not see republicans working against American interests to score political points

Thats exactly what they did over the past 8 years when they tried to block everything that Obama was doing. You can say they did that in the interest of the American people, but thats exactly what the Dems could say to justify their resistance to Trump. See how this goes in a circle?

 

[Slade3200]

My guess is that the show that we witnessed in the open door meeting the day before was not reflected in the room during the closed door meeting. Durbin presented the bipartisan bill they have been working for for months and got shut down by Trump. So he politicized the matter by making public what Trump said. In one day, Trump when from an open minded unifier on the verge of passing an immigration reform bill that he could tout as another win, to a close minded bigot who is dividing this country and fostering chaos. I don't like Dubins move, but I see the strategy and effectiveness behind it. #dirtypolitics.

bipartisan?

Trump has made it clear that he won't support any immigration bill that does not include funding for the wall

so, he kept another promise

the wall is not very important to me; but that was a key issue of Trump's campaign and I respect his stance that any immigration compromise has to include funding

elections have consequences

Yeah, bipartisan, as in 3 republicans and 3 democrats who wrote the bill.