Dems got the Trump Racism thing all wrong

[Coyote]

Why didn't your ancestors stay where they came from?

My forefathers were educated and skilled workers. When they came to America they contributed at day one. Actually, my ancestors are irrelevant to this discussion. If you feel like you have to make this personal, then you obviously don't have any arrows in your quiver.

So you set a different standard for immigrants today

Mine were dirt poor farmers out of Norway. In fact quite a few immigrants were dirt poor farmers and other types. They made our country great.

Yes we judge people differently today, get over it, it's not he 1800s anymore.


.

When you start claiming immigrants should stay in their home country and make it a better place it's pretty effing hypocritical when you wouldn't be here if your ancestors had done just that but they didn't. They went to a place where they had opportunities to succeed that they did not have in their old country. And that is still valid today. Immigration is not undertaken lightly at all. And it's a process that self selects at the beginning for people who are more resiliant, adaptable and driven. I'm just talking about immigration, not refugees or other categories. Contrary to mythology, they aren't coming here to get on the dole. So right away you have a group of people, regardless of country, who are already driven to succeed. So how do you select them?

Well, I agree - the largest proportion should be merit based - some education or skills. I don't care about language proficiency because that will come with time. But I also agree with the visa lottery system - a means of selecting people who might not otherwise qualify from countries where we get few immigrants. They are still driven to succeed and willing to make a huge jump, to a foreign country, foreign culture and sometimes (contrary to the claims that "they hate America") - they are coming to a country where a portion of the citizenry seems to hate them. That takes courage, drive and resiliance. I also agree with "chain migration" - because marriage and family are long recognized as stabilizing factors. If you want someone to work well, be productive and adaptive - they should have their family with them.

It's a system that has worked for us a long long time.

There was a time in America when immigration was encouraged and immigrants came here to become Americans. We're full of deadbeats, and there is an agenda by the left to transform traditional America into a socialist government dependent society. I oppose that agenda.

Well those "deadbeats" don't appear to be immigrants.

 

[TemplarKormac]

When you start claiming immigrants should stay in their home country and make it a better place it's pretty effing hypocritical when you wouldn't be here if your ancestors had done just that but they didn't.

You know what the real irony is here?

Immigrants (our ancestors) from other parts of the world are responsible for driving the indigenous off their lands and forcing them into reservations. I am referring to Native Americans and what happened with the Pilgrims, and the Trail of Tears, just to name a couple.

Then again, why is it wrong for someone to say "stay in your country and strive to make it a better place"? Is that not a worthy aspiration?

 

[BS Filter]

My forefathers were educated and skilled workers. When they came to America they contributed at day one. Actually, my ancestors are irrelevant to this discussion. If you feel like you have to make this personal, then you obviously don't have any arrows in your quiver.

So you set a different standard for immigrants today

Mine were dirt poor farmers out of Norway. In fact quite a few immigrants were dirt poor farmers and other types. They made our country great.

Yes we judge people differently today, get over it, it's not he 1800s anymore.


.

When you start claiming immigrants should stay in their home country and make it a better place it's pretty effing hypocritical when you wouldn't be here if your ancestors had done just that but they didn't. They went to a place where they had opportunities to succeed that they did not have in their old country. And that is still valid today. Immigration is not undertaken lightly at all. And it's a process that self selects at the beginning for people who are more resiliant, adaptable and driven. I'm just talking about immigration, not refugees or other categories. Contrary to mythology, they aren't coming here to get on the dole. So right away you have a group of people, regardless of country, who are already driven to succeed. So how do you select them?

Well, I agree - the largest proportion should be merit based - some education or skills. I don't care about language proficiency because that will come with time. But I also agree with the visa lottery system - a means of selecting people who might not otherwise qualify from countries where we get few immigrants. They are still driven to succeed and willing to make a huge jump, to a foreign country, foreign culture and sometimes (contrary to the claims that "they hate America") - they are coming to a country where a portion of the citizenry seems to hate them. That takes courage, drive and resiliance. I also agree with "chain migration" - because marriage and family are long recognized as stabilizing factors. If you want someone to work well, be productive and adaptive - they should have their family with them.

It's a system that has worked for us a long long time.

There was a time in America when immigration was encouraged and immigrants came here to become Americans. We're full of deadbeats, and there is an agenda by the left to transform traditional America into a socialist government dependent society. I oppose that agenda.

Well those "deadbeats" don't appear to be immigrants.

Many are deadbeats. My point is we have enough undesirables. If you're educated and can contribute from day one and want to be a patriot, welcome. Otherwise, no. End of story.

 

[OKTexas]

So why don't they make Africa a better place by staying there?

Why didn't your ancestors stay where they came from?

My forefathers were educated and skilled workers. When they came to America they contributed at day one. Actually, my ancestors are irrelevant to this discussion. If you feel like you have to make this personal, then you obviously don't have any arrows in your quiver.

So you set a different standard for immigrants today

Mine were dirt poor farmers out of Norway. In fact quite a few immigrants were dirt poor farmers and other types. They made our country great.

Yes we judge people differently today, get over it, it's not he 1800s anymore.


.

When you start claiming immigrants should stay in their home country and make it a better place it's pretty effing hypocritical when you wouldn't be here if your ancestors had done just that but they didn't. They went to a place where they had opportunities to succeed that they did not have in their old country. And that is still valid today. Immigration is not undertaken lightly at all. And it's a process that self selects at the beginning for people who are more resiliant, adaptable and driven. I'm just talking about immigration, not refugees or other categories. Contrary to mythology, they aren't coming here to get on the dole. So right away you have a group of people, regardless of country, who are already driven to succeed. So how do you select them?

Well, I agree - the largest proportion should be merit based - some education or skills. I don't care about language proficiency because that will come with time. But I also agree with the visa lottery system - a means of selecting people who might not otherwise qualify from countries where we get few immigrants. They are still driven to succeed and willing to make a huge jump, to a foreign country, foreign culture and sometimes (contrary to the claims that "they hate America") - they are coming to a country where a portion of the citizenry seems to hate them. That takes courage, drive and resiliance. I also agree with "chain migration" - because marriage and family are long recognized as stabilizing factors. If you want someone to work well, be productive and adaptive - they should have their family with them.

It's a system that has worked for us a long long time.

Well I said this earlier in the thread but I'll say it again just for you, 70 million of our 320+ million are foreign born. We don't just need bodies like the 1800s we need specific skills. Also your claims that language will come with time is BS, I've seen people that have been here 20-25 years that needed an interpreter to be interviewed. Many immigrants and illegals are moving to enclaves where their native language is spoken and never bother to learn english. All the local businesses speak their language and all the people around them do the same, they can survive without english and they do. I have a barber I've been going to for more than 15 years, she spends all her time with Vietnamese speakers and has very little skills in english. But she gives a great $4.00 haircut.


.

 

[Tilly]

Dems should stop with the hyperfocus on Racism and call this what it is, class based discrimination... Reps need to stop being spin doctor puppets... and Trump needs to grow the **** up and start acting like a leader

With ONE important exception to the above.....Trump revealed his prejudices when he stated, rhetorically, "why don;t we have more immigrants from Norway."

THAT,more than the shit hole statement confirmed for me that Trump simply cannot overcome his racial antipathies.

Perhaps, but that is subjective. He could have meant it as a "white" thing or he could have meant it as a rich/successful thing. It can be taken many different ways

He also asked why the US doesn’t have more Asian immigrants.

 

[Coyote]

When you start claiming immigrants should stay in their home country and make it a better place it's pretty effing hypocritical when you wouldn't be here if your ancestors had done just that but they didn't.

You know what the real irony is here?

Immigrants (our ancestors) from other parts of the world are responsible for driving the indigenous off their lands and forcing them into reservations. I am referring to Native Americans and what happened with the Pilgrims, and the Trail of Tears, just to name a couple.

Then again, why is it wrong for someone to say "stay in your country and strive to make it a better place"? Is that not a worthy aspiration?

We are here because our ancestors didn't do that. To demand it of others seems rather hypocritical don't you think - we, in our wealthy comfortable America....?

There are people in Mosul trying to repair their lives - whole families decimated in the conflict. I couldn't blame a single one of them for leaving. Those that didn't really couldn't. So, it's a worthy aspiration yes...but so is striking out to make a new life.

 

[Wyatt earp]

You're full of it, everything this administration is being dissected by lawyers far and wide. Any hint of discrimination would be if federal court before the ink dries. College admissions have nothing to do with immigration, they set their own quotas.


.

So you are saying the data in my link is wrong???

There is no way that the data is presented even half honestly. And looking at the organization's website who produced it... no surprise.

They want to open the floodgates and swam America with 3rd world folks so that they can take over. The organization's sole purpose is pushing for such immigration reform.

It would be laughable to believe that they would be honest in anything. Remember, the average IQ of these countries is less than 80. Sure there may be a few smart people running around, but why we should focus on these countries can't be justified in any form.

There are dozens of different links saying the same thing. Try google and do little research instead of mewling and complaining because Trump got caught in a lie about the value of African immigrants to this country. And stop lying about average IQs of Africans being 80. I haven't seen any tests or methodology to back that lie up and neither have you. You are just regurgitating bullshit you read to some RW media rag. BTW IQ tests scores are not immutable. You can study and take the test several times to improve your score by as much as one standard
deviation or more. But I doubt the whole of Africa has been tested...more likey a small sampling by racist whites was all that was needed to stigmatize the entire continent.

The entire continent is a shit hole it's obvious to anyone.. what your trying to do is play a fantasy game that has nothing to do with reality..

Obviously nothing can change your mind...not Even photos of city lights dotting the nightscape all over the continent.. Scenes reminiscent of our own shining cities.
I won't even try to penetrate the hateful prejudicee worldview that makes you an ignorant fool.

Lights at night what are you smoking crack?

 

[Wyatt earp]

I'm saying you can't have any data on a law that hasn't been passed.


.

DId you know that quotas are illegal? Merit is the law now; and, while immigration has nothing to do with college admissions it just so happens that African immigrants are vying successfully for admission and graduating at rates exceeding their numbers in the general population by far. They are doing that far more often than the native population and other immigrants as well.

So why don't they make Africa a better place by staying there?

Many do return home to help rebuild infrastructure, but the tyrants put in pace by the USA and other western nations aren't going to permit too much change...they won't risk their access to the resources and exploitation of Africa for anything...especially for the health and welfare of the natives.

The same could be said of Asians immigrants....

Give me some names of the tyrants put in place by the USA and the names of the other nations.

You don't know...?????? Go research the matter and come on back when you reach my level...then we can communicate.

Your level? You post nonsense only a retard would try to include white South Africa with the rest.

 

[TemplarKormac]

We are here because our ancestors didn't do that.

I beg your pardon? You're telling me that our ancestors didn't drive the Natives out of house and home? That they didn't war against them in order to expand their own territory?

To demand it of others seems rather hypocritical don't you think - we, in our wealthy comfortable America....?

Curious, why rob your homeland of the skills you have by fleeing to another country? I get coming here to get the skills, but why not go back to your homeland and use them to better it? Why can't we incentivize the existing population to acquire such skills?

I mean, it's like having clean running water at home but instead buying bottled and jugged water at the store... for fear of turning on the spigot and using the water you have.

There are people in Mosul trying to repair their lives - whole families decimated in the conflict. I couldn't blame a single one of them for leaving. Those that didn't really couldn't. So, it's a worthy aspiration yes...but so is striking out to make a new life.

There are people in Houston, South Florida and Puerto Rico who are still reeling from the worst hurricane season in American history, too. They have the entire length and breadth of the USA to strike out to. They don't flee, they rebuild. A lot of these people have had their homes and livelihoods destroyed. Some lost their jobs. All (or most) of those people are American citizens who need to make a new life also. Who do we give preference to? People from war-torn countries with little education or trade skills? Or people like I just described, who already live in America and have a higher likelihood of already being educated and versed in a trade? I know it sounds bad and it may sound discriminatory, but to me that is logic. Pure logic. We are trying to take the easiest most efficient path to success, not trying to give everyone on the planet a job or a new life. It sounds rough, but that's how I see it.

For the time being, new immigrants are getting in the way. There are people in those hurricane ravaged areas that need to rebuild and make a new life. We should be giving preference to them, devoting our money and resources to them, getting them back on their feet and getting them jobs whilst helping them rebuild their lives.

 

[JQPublic1]

So you are saying the data in my link is wrong???

There is no way that the data is presented even half honestly. And looking at the organization's website who produced it... no surprise.

They want to open the floodgates and swam America with 3rd world folks so that they can take over. The organization's sole purpose is pushing for such immigration reform.

It would be laughable to believe that they would be honest in anything. Remember, the average IQ of these countries is less than 80. Sure there may be a few smart people running around, but why we should focus on these countries can't be justified in any form.

There are dozens of different links saying the same thing. Try google and do little research instead of mewling and complaining because Trump got caught in a lie about the value of African immigrants to this country. And stop lying about average IQs of Africans being 80. I haven't seen any tests or methodology to back that lie up and neither have you. You are just regurgitating bullshit you read to some RW media rag. BTW IQ tests scores are not immutable. You can study and take the test several times to improve your score by as much as one standard
deviation or more. But I doubt the whole of Africa has been tested...more likey a small sampling by racist whites was all that was needed to stigmatize the entire continent.

The entire continent is a shit hole it's obvious to anyone.. what your trying to do is play a fantasy game that has nothing to do with reality..

Obviously nothing can change your mind...not Even photos of city lights dotting the nightscape all over the continent.. Scenes reminiscent of our own shining cities.
I won't even try to penetrate the hateful prejudicee worldview that makes you an ignorant fool.

Lights at night what are you smoking crack?



View attachment 171630

When was that map printed , 1950????

 

[Wyatt earp]

There is no way that the data is presented even half honestly. And looking at the organization's website who produced it... no surprise.

They want to open the floodgates and swam America with 3rd world folks so that they can take over. The organization's sole purpose is pushing for such immigration reform.

It would be laughable to believe that they would be honest in anything. Remember, the average IQ of these countries is less than 80. Sure there may be a few smart people running around, but why we should focus on these countries can't be justified in any form.

There are dozens of different links saying the same thing. Try google and do little research instead of mewling and complaining because Trump got caught in a lie about the value of African immigrants to this country. And stop lying about average IQs of Africans being 80. I haven't seen any tests or methodology to back that lie up and neither have you. You are just regurgitating bullshit you read to some RW media rag. BTW IQ tests scores are not immutable. You can study and take the test several times to improve your score by as much as one standard
deviation or more. But I doubt the whole of Africa has been tested...more likey a small sampling by racist whites was all that was needed to stigmatize the entire continent.

The entire continent is a shit hole it's obvious to anyone.. what your trying to do is play a fantasy game that has nothing to do with reality..

Obviously nothing can change your mind...not Even photos of city lights dotting the nightscape all over the continent.. Scenes reminiscent of our own shining cities.
I won't even try to penetrate the hateful prejudicee worldview that makes you an ignorant fool.

Lights at night what are you smoking crack?



View attachment 171630

When was that map printed , 1950????

2016 revisionist ...who are you trying to fool?

 

[JQPublic1]

DId you know that quotas are illegal? Merit is the law now; and, while immigration has nothing to do with college admissions it just so happens that African immigrants are vying successfully for admission and graduating at rates exceeding their numbers in the general population by far. They are doing that far more often than the native population and other immigrants as well.

So why don't they make Africa a better place by staying there?

Many do return home to help rebuild infrastructure, but the tyrants put in pace by the USA and other western nations aren't going to permit too much change...they won't risk their access to the resources and exploitation of Africa for anything...especially for the health and welfare of the natives.

The same could be said of Asians immigrants....

Give me some names of the tyrants put in place by the USA and the names of the other nations.

You don't know...?????? Go research the matter and come on back when you reach my level...then we can communicate.

Your level? You post nonsense only a retard would try to include white South Africa with the rest.

I didn't mention SA in this exchange at all. Why did you bring up the 80% Black nation out of the blue.

 

[Wyatt earp]

So why don't they make Africa a better place by staying there?

Many do return home to help rebuild infrastructure, but the tyrants put in pace by the USA and other western nations aren't going to permit too much change...they won't risk their access to the resources and exploitation of Africa for anything...especially for the health and welfare of the natives.

The same could be said of Asians immigrants....

Give me some names of the tyrants put in place by the USA and the names of the other nations.

You don't know...?????? Go research the matter and come on back when you reach my level...then we can communicate.

Your level? You post nonsense only a retard would try to include white South Africa with the rest.

I didn't mention SA in this exchange at all. Why did you bring up the 80% Black nation out of the blue.

Probably because your in fantasy land and can't handle with reality..

 

[Wyatt earp]

Many do return home to help rebuild infrastructure, but the tyrants put in pace by the USA and other western nations aren't going to permit too much change...they won't risk their access to the resources and exploitation of Africa for anything...especially for the health and welfare of the natives.

The same could be said of Asians immigrants....

Give me some names of the tyrants put in place by the USA and the names of the other nations.

You don't know...?????? Go research the matter and come on back when you reach my level...then we can communicate.

Your level? You post nonsense only a retard would try to include white South Africa with the rest.

I didn't mention SA in this exchange at all. Why did you bring up the 80% Black nation out of the blue.

Probably because your in fantasy land and can't handle with reality..

If you think a country like Nigeria is so great move there and report back to us on how many high paying jobs there is and you can get free electricity, clean water and live like a king..!!!!

 

[WelfareQueen]

I'm saying you can't have any data on a law that hasn't been passed.


.

DId you know that quotas are illegal? Merit is the law now; and, while immigration has nothing to do with college admissions it just so happens that African immigrants are vying successfully for admission and graduating at rates exceeding their numbers in the general population by far. They are doing that far more often than the native population and other immigrants as well.

So why don't they make Africa a better place by staying there?

Why didn't your ancestors stay where they came from?

My forefathers were educated and skilled workers. When they came to America they contributed at day one. Actually, my ancestors are irrelevant to this discussion. If you feel like you have to make this personal, then you obviously don't have any arrows in your quiver.

So you set a different standard for immigrants today

Mine were dirt poor farmers out of Norway. In fact quite a few immigrants were dirt poor farmers and other types. They made our country great.

I'm sure your ancestors were good people. Most that came to this Country were. But in the age of terrorism the rules have changed. We need to protect our borders and properly vet everyone who comes here. That just seems prudent to me.

Second....America is a welfare state now. It was not when your family and my family came here. If our families didn't work as soon as they got off the boat they starved.

Today folks are entitled to benefits immediately whether they are here legally or not. Coyote...they are liabilities...not assets...until or if they are working and making good money. So I do not want unskilled people to drain away the assets of this Country to come here. Those assets should be for American citizens.

That is not racist...that is prudent. I have no obligation to someone from Mexico, Nigeria, or Sweden. They need to take care of their own people. If you want to come to this Country do so legally, accept our democratic values, have skills and be willing to work. Seems fair to me....how about to you?

 

[BS Filter]

When you start claiming immigrants should stay in their home country and make it a better place it's pretty effing hypocritical when you wouldn't be here if your ancestors had done just that but they didn't.

You know what the real irony is here?

Immigrants (our ancestors) from other parts of the world are responsible for driving the indigenous off their lands and forcing them into reservations. I am referring to Native Americans and what happened with the Pilgrims, and the Trail of Tears, just to name a couple.

Then again, why is it wrong for someone to say "stay in your country and strive to make it a better place"? Is that not a worthy aspiration?

We are here because our ancestors didn't do that. To demand it of others seems rather hypocritical don't you think - we, in our wealthy comfortable America....?

There are people in Mosul trying to repair their lives - whole families decimated in the conflict. I couldn't blame a single one of them for leaving. Those that didn't really couldn't. So, it's a worthy aspiration yes...but so is striking out to make a new life.

Yes, we created our wealthy comfortable America. Why would you desire to turn us into a shithole?

 

[TNHarley]

I posted a thread the other day of all the racist things he’s said and done from the 1970’s - present.
Saying he’s not a racist is ignoring the evidence.

It is counter productive in my opinion when you take a discriminatory comment that isn't racist on the face and turn it into a 24/7 multi-day headline of our Racist president. All it does is hyper polarize each side. You may strengthen your opposition to Trump but you are also strengthening his supporters in their opposition to you. The wings get stronger and the middle stays extremely frustrated.

Prior to this, I did not take his comments as racist so much as ignorant.

The latest one - when he takes all of Africa (almost entirely black) and Haiti (black) - and lumps them into one category "shithole" while holding up Norway...is very disconcerting.

It is difficult to take it any other way....

How is it difficult to think those countries are shitholes and norway isnt? Do we need to look at stats?
OTHER people invoked skin color. Unless the reports arent factual..
Would you rather let 200K civilized intelligent people come here, or savages that have a collective iq of 70?

 

[Coyote]

We are here because our ancestors didn't do that.

I beg your pardon? You're telling me that our ancestors didn't drive the Natives out of house and home? That they didn't war against them in order to expand their own territory?

No, you misunderstand. Our ancestors did not opt to stay in their own country and improve conditions there.

To demand it of others seems rather hypocritical don't you think - we, in our wealthy comfortable America....?

Curious, why rob your homeland of the skills you have by fleeing to another country? I get coming here to get the skills, but why not go back to your homeland and use them to better it? Why can't we incentivize the existing population to acquire such skills?

I mean, it's like having clean running water at home but instead buying bottled and jugged water at the store... for fear of turning on the spigot and using the water you have.

In your second paragraph...you have a number of different, and good questions.

1 and 2. The reasons for leaving a country are many. In some cases even with the skills there are few opportunities available to utilize them (high unemployment, unstabe governments, dictatorships). You might be fleeing extreme poverty, corrupt government and law enforcement, government ignored gang violence (El Salvadore) where you children's choices might be join a gang or die. You might be fleeing civil war in a country with multiple militias and no clear path forward and a government that wants to kill you (Syria). You might be fleeing severe poverty, famine, drought (Sudan). You might be fleeing a country where the majority has turned against you, stript you of citizenship, put you in camps, forbidden you education and ability to work and finally driven you out murdering, burning alive, and raping your people (Rohinga and Azhidi). You might be fleeing ethnic/racial/religious persecution (many). Secondly...there are many who come here for an education (despite the constant bashing of our higher ed, our schools are very sought after around the world) and return to work in their home countries. Again, they may not facing the crisis others do. They are immigrating for the same reasons our ancestors did - and that is why I think it's important to at least recognize that instead of denigrating them.

Also...immigration historically has been incredibly important to us as a country throughout history. It built this country into what it was. The more closed a country - the more it stagnates. We offer a unique environment in the US - anyone can be anything. People can reinvent themselves. Innovation is not only encouraged but valued. And new ideas don't just spring out stagnation - they are brought in by different ways of thinking, of viewing a problem, of INTERACTING with the people already there. Why do you think high tech companies and start ups want them so badly and openly value a diverse workplace? This is one area were we stand out.

That brings me to my last point on those two lines...because someone is bound to take me wrong. I don't call for unregulated immigration. And I support a blend of (majority) merit based and a smaller group that is not merit based. Why? Because that smaller group may not have skills we want now - but they tend to be hard working and driven. They tend to value education and push their children to do well. And it is those young people that become the doctors and engineers. Immigrants by and large love and value our country because often the countries they left do not offer the same freedoms, opportunitees and rights that their old country did. These are people willing to take tremendous risk and loss to come here - that says a lot about them, and in my mind the kind of people we want.

3. Your last line in the paragraph is a good one...."Why can't we incentivize the existing population to acquire such skills?" But I'm not sure - do you mean Americans? If so - I don't know...

There are people in Mosul trying to repair their lives - whole families decimated in the conflict. I couldn't blame a single one of them for leaving. Those that didn't really couldn't. So, it's a worthy aspiration yes...but so is striking out to make a new life.

There are people in Houston, South Florida and Puerto Rico who are still reeling from the worst hurricane season in American history, too. They have the entire length and breadth of the USA to strike out to. They don't flee, they rebuild. A lot of these people have had their homes and livelihoods destroyed. Some lost their jobs. All (or most) of those people are American citizens who need to make a new life also. Who do we give preference to? People from war-torn countries with little education or trade skills? Or people like I just described, who already live in America and have a higher likelihood of already being educated and versed in a trade? I know it sounds bad and it may sound discriminatory, but to me that is logic. Pure logic. We are trying to take the easiest most efficient path to success, not trying to give everyone on the planet a job or a new life. It sounds rough, but that's how I see it.

Actually....that isn't entirely true. Puerto Rico has been steadily losing population due to economic troubles and the final blow, the hurricane, caused a huge number of people to pull up stakes and leave. After Katrina many people opted not to rebuild - they left. Ironically - many went to Texas where some were flooded out again in the recent floods. Detroit's economic bust has led to a population decline leaving entire neighborhoods full of empty abandoned houses. Most people did not stay and those that did are often those with no other options. It is also impossible to make relevent comparisons between American states and other countries. People here have options that make it easier to stay and rebuild that don't exist in many other parts of the world.

Look at Mosul. That city is a real tragedy, destroyed by civil war, competing forces, and ISIS brutality. Not much left standing, no family left whole, thousands bodies to bury as people try to clean up and rebuild. And overarching all that - no accountable government, no political stability, the possibility that the regime may turn against them and try to kill them. Infrastructure destroyed. Those left have nowhere to go. No government funding to help them rebuild. Is that comparable to Texas, Houston, Puerto Rico?

For the time being, new immigrants are getting in the way. There are people in those hurricane ravaged areas that need to rebuild and make a new life. We should be giving preference to them, devoting our money and resources to them, getting them back on their feet and getting them jobs whilst helping them rebuild their lives.

I see no evidence immigrants get in the way at all. Does it have to be a zero sum equation?

 

[Coyote]

DId you know that quotas are illegal? Merit is the law now; and, while immigration has nothing to do with college admissions it just so happens that African immigrants are vying successfully for admission and graduating at rates exceeding their numbers in the general population by far. They are doing that far more often than the native population and other immigrants as well.

So why don't they make Africa a better place by staying there?

Why didn't your ancestors stay where they came from?

My forefathers were educated and skilled workers. When they came to America they contributed at day one. Actually, my ancestors are irrelevant to this discussion. If you feel like you have to make this personal, then you obviously don't have any arrows in your quiver.

So you set a different standard for immigrants today

Mine were dirt poor farmers out of Norway. In fact quite a few immigrants were dirt poor farmers and other types. They made our country great.

I'm sure your ancestors were good people. Most that came to this Country were. But in the age of terrorism the rules have changed. We need to protect our borders and properly vet everyone who comes here. That just seems prudent to me.

Second....America is a welfare state now. It was not when your family and my family came here. If our families didn't work as soon as they got off the boat they starved.

Today folks are entitled to benefits immediately whether they are here legally or not. Coyote...they are liabilities...not assets...until or if they are working and making good money. So I do not want unskilled people to drain away the assets of this Country to come here. Those assets should be for American citizens.

That is not racist...that is prudent. I have no obligation to someone from Mexico, Nigeria, or Sweden. They need to take care of their own people. If you want to come to this Country do so legally, accept our democratic values, have skills and be willing to work. Seems fair to me....how about to you?

The problem is...we WANT unskilled people too. We want people to herd sheep, alone, for years in the isolated regions of Montana or Idaho...we want people to do the back breaking work of picking produce and milking cows. We want people do do this stuff because we can't even get our own people to do it. My friend can't even hire a reliable kid to do simple farm chores anymore.

And yes, I agree - up to a point. I value diversity in immigration, and they should come in legally.

 

[BS Filter]

So why don't they make Africa a better place by staying there?

Why didn't your ancestors stay where they came from?

My forefathers were educated and skilled workers. When they came to America they contributed at day one. Actually, my ancestors are irrelevant to this discussion. If you feel like you have to make this personal, then you obviously don't have any arrows in your quiver.

So you set a different standard for immigrants today

Mine were dirt poor farmers out of Norway. In fact quite a few immigrants were dirt poor farmers and other types. They made our country great.

I'm sure your ancestors were good people. Most that came to this Country were. But in the age of terrorism the rules have changed. We need to protect our borders and properly vet everyone who comes here. That just seems prudent to me.

Second....America is a welfare state now. It was not when your family and my family came here. If our families didn't work as soon as they got off the boat they starved.

Today folks are entitled to benefits immediately whether they are here legally or not. Coyote...they are liabilities...not assets...until or if they are working and making good money. So I do not want unskilled people to drain away the assets of this Country to come here. Those assets should be for American citizens.

That is not racist...that is prudent. I have no obligation to someone from Mexico, Nigeria, or Sweden. They need to take care of their own people. If you want to come to this Country do so legally, accept our democratic values, have skills and be willing to work. Seems fair to me....how about to you?

The problem is...we WANT unskilled people too. We want people to herd sheep, alone, for years in the isolated regions of Montana or Idaho...we want people to do the back breaking work of picking produce and milking cows. We want people do do this stuff because we can't even get our own people to do it. My friend can't even hire a reliable kid to do simple farm chores anymore.

And yes, I agree - up to a point. I value diversity in immigration, and they should come in legally.

So you want a slave class to do your dirty work? How about teaching our kids how to work like we used to. Um, no one milks cows these days, machines do that.