Democrats still ignoring people who could have helped them defeat Trump, Ohio party leaders say

[Cellblock2429]

The working class voted Democrat. It was richer white suburbinites who voted for Trump in droves.

"Economic uncertainty?". Horseshit. It was the racism, stupid. But we're not allowed to talk about that, as conservative PC speech codes forbid it.

You are so right! Tell all your friends.

/---- I still don't get the race angle you're playing. Was there a black democRAT running for president ?

 

[Correll]

NOt really fair to have a vile press/pop culture like we do that completely vilifies the GOP and then blame the GOP for their inability to get their message across.

I agree that most of the national press is against the GOP. Stipulated.

So now what? Messaging and image may be the most important elements of politics, and it's the GOP's job to figure out how to help itself in that area.

That's your challenge now.
..

How are other people's actions our responsibility?

Huh?

I'm saying you have to play the hand you're dealt the best you can, or not play at all. If you want a chance at winning.
.

We are playing our hand the best we can.

And all indications to date is that that is not going to have any real impact.

OUr "Brand" for the coming Minority Majority is defined, not by our actions, but by liberal propaganda.

This is something that exists completely outside of our control or even influence.

Nothing we do has anything to do with that.

Those actions are the responsibility of those who are doing those actions, not us.

Are you giving up, then?

If not, what's the plan, given the environment, to retain power?
.

Giving up? Hell no.

The plan? Play it out as far as possible and hope for something to break.

What's your plan?

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

We don't want the rest of the country to end up like these Democrat cities. The last Republican Mayor we had was George Voinovich. He eventually left Cleveland, became Governor, and after his two terms there, a US Senator. That's how long it's been.

I'm a diehard Republican voter; not because the Republicans are so great, but because the Democrats are so bad. But if we were Republican led for decades and the town kept getting worse, I would switch my vote and see what the other side had to offer. Will Democrats ever do that? Hell no. Just keep voting for the same failed leadership over and over again. Some of our police cars are over ten years old. They closed down some fire departments because of funding. What are they doing now? Going to spend a million and a half taxpayer dollars to build the Mayors grandson a dirt bike park. And I'd bet my paycheck to your dollar he will get reelected again if he runs.

And they succeed by failing.

As they drive the middle class away, into the suburbs, they solidify their grip on power.


As neighborhood after neighborhood turn into ghettos, the voters there become increasingly dependent and loyal.


This is the future for the nation, that dems like rightwinger WANT, and are ACTIVELY working towards.


And have been for decades, while our GOP leadership were afraid to say anything.

I think people are fighting back. I think more and more are waking up. That's why Republicans lead the country today on every level. There's always hope.

Trumps victory came from making inroads in the blue collar white vote.


The dem strategy does not depend on that vote. Indeed is based on making that vote irrelevant.

Absolutely. That's why the Democrats are pushing so hard to make whites a minority in this country. All minorities mostly vote Democrat. Some whites are waking up to this strategy, but many still are not.

i still want to see the video of Trump chanting to his crowds of 35,000,,,Make America White Again and Bring Back Slavery! Yeeeahhhh!(Dean Scream),,,,,that seems to be what the left is claiming

That's the leftist hypocrisy for you. If a minority votes for a candidate because they feel the candidate supports their race, you voted for your best interest. If a white person votes for a candidate because they feel the candidate supports their race, they are racist.

 

[Rexx Taylor]

And they succeed by failing.

As they drive the middle class away, into the suburbs, they solidify their grip on power.


As neighborhood after neighborhood turn into ghettos, the voters there become increasingly dependent and loyal.


This is the future for the nation, that dems like rightwinger WANT, and are ACTIVELY working towards.


And have been for decades, while our GOP leadership were afraid to say anything.

I think people are fighting back. I think more and more are waking up. That's why Republicans lead the country today on every level. There's always hope.

Trumps victory came from making inroads in the blue collar white vote.


The dem strategy does not depend on that vote. Indeed is based on making that vote irrelevant.

Absolutely. That's why the Democrats are pushing so hard to make whites a minority in this country. All minorities mostly vote Democrat. Some whites are waking up to this strategy, but many still are not.

i still want to see the video of Trump chanting to his crowds of 35,000,,,Make America White Again and Bring Back Slavery! Yeeeahhhh!(Dean Scream),,,,,that seems to be what the left is claiming

That's the leftist hypocrisy for you. If a minority votes for a candidate because they feel the candidate supports their race, you voted for your best interest. If a white person votes for a candidate because they feel the candidate supports their race, they are racist.

and isnt it the Democrats that want to make America White Again?

 

[JoeB131]

There is some truth to that, but the reason cities were abandoned was because of white flight. That was accelerated by bussing. Nobody wanted forced bussing, so the people that could afford to move out of the city did.

so don't pretend it was about who was mayor.

Actually, I moved out of the city for reasons that had nothing to do with busing. It had to do with traffic, corrupt cops, no place to park, and the fact most of the jobs moved out to the suburbs because it was easier to build a new factory in Aurora than refurbish an old one in Chicago. Aurora is kind of a dump, too, but they have lots of land.

 

[JoeB131]

first, as I said, you will probably collect more than you ever pay in. If you live to be 72, you are getting more back than you paid in.

Correct the liberals didn't think ahead when they started this ponzi scheme... Who's fault is that?

Dude, put down the crack pipe. It's Easter, don't go smoking crack.

The purpose of SS was never to pay for itself. It was to make sure that people didn't starve to death when they were too old to work.

You know, basic human decency, but I don't think you understand that concept.

Now, to a degree, Societal changes have put a strain on it. When SS was first instituted, the average life expectancy was 62. Today it's 78.

Also- the drive of the Republican Party to wipe out middle class incomes has reduced the tax base for it, and the fact that the Baby Boomers had less kids than their parents means less people will be paying into it.

But even then, it won't run out of money until 2043.

So, yeah, they didn't think ahead at all...

 

[JoeB131]

But that is their long term plan, and it's why they display zero willingness to change their behavior. They believe that demographics will ultimately wipe out conservatism before long and they'll have a free playing field. So they can be as annoying as they want. Two points on that:

First point- Why should we try to win over people who if given a choice between voting their own economic interests and voting to indulge their racism, misogyny and homophobia, will vote for the latter every time?

As I've said. I voted for Republican every year from 1980 to 2008. And every recession, **** up and screw up, I made excuses for them until 2008 blew up my life so bad I couldn't really rationalize it anymore. (and believe me, I tried!)

There's no point in trying to reason with awful people because they will always be awful people.

First, they jumped the gun a bit and assumed their plan was functional for 2016. That came around and bit them square on the ass, of course, and now they're facing the possibility of some long-term effects of that election and their behaviors - from legislation to the Supreme Court. Oops.

That would be a valid argument if Trump were competent. As we are seeing, he isn't. So if anything, he might even end up accelerating the demise of the Conservative movement. He can't get his legislation passed, and no one on SCOTUS wants to have HIM appoint his replacement. People are seriously talking about how the Dems might flip the house in 2018, something no one would be talking about if Hillary had won.

And then we get to this... ****, ****, ****, ****....

Second, in many ways, they may be right in the long run. The GOP's messaging remains absolutely horrible, and the party appears to still be incredibly tone deaf to the country's changing demographics. If the GOP doesn't wake up, and soon, the "progressives" will get exactly want they want.

YOU STUPID ****, I'm going to explain this to you one more time.

The problem with the GOP is not it's "messaging". In fact, they do a fantastic job of getting dumb ***** like Ray to vote against their own economic interests by playing on his racism and misogyny.

The problem is that what the GOP actually stands for is massively fucked up. They stand for making us all work harder so that rich people can have more. Where we all have to work 2-4 jobs in order to maintain something even vaguely resembling the middle class lifestyle our parents had.

If the GOP were honest about what they stood for, the bottom 40% wouldn't vote for them, because they have less than 1% of the wealth. The middle 20% who have only 5% of the wealth and are struggling wouldn't vote for them either. Even the fourth quintile, making between 80-100K would hard time rationalizing voting GOP, as they are probably right on the bubble and had to work two jobs to get there.

Only the top 20% could really make a good case for voting GOP, as they have 83% of the wealth and their policies actually do benefit them.

So how does the GOP use messaging to get people to vote for such an awful state of affairs? "Hey, that Black person wants to break into your house". "Hey, that Mexican wants to take your job." "Hey, that homo wants to use the same bathroom you do!!!"

And they've been getting away with this shit since Tricky Dick, so please don't tell me the "messaging' is the problem.

 

[JoeB131]

NOt really fair to have a vile press/pop culture like we do that completely vilifies the GOP and then blame the GOP for their inability to get their message across.

What villifies the GOP is that they wrap plutocracy in racism to get dumb white people like you to vote against your own interest, Cleetus.

And you keep falling for it.

 

[Mac1958]

But that is their long term plan, and it's why they display zero willingness to change their behavior. They believe that demographics will ultimately wipe out conservatism before long and they'll have a free playing field. So they can be as annoying as they want. Two points on that:

First point- Why should we try to win over people who if given a choice between voting their own economic interests and voting to indulge their racism, misogyny and homophobia, will vote for the latter every time?

As I've said. I voted for Republican every year from 1980 to 2008. And every recession, **** up and screw up, I made excuses for them until 2008 blew up my life so bad I couldn't really rationalize it anymore. (and believe me, I tried!)

There's no point in trying to reason with awful people because they will always be awful people.

First, they jumped the gun a bit and assumed their plan was functional for 2016. That came around and bit them square on the ass, of course, and now they're facing the possibility of some long-term effects of that election and their behaviors - from legislation to the Supreme Court. Oops.

That would be a valid argument if Trump were competent. As we are seeing, he isn't. So if anything, he might even end up accelerating the demise of the Conservative movement. He can't get his legislation passed, and no one on SCOTUS wants to have HIM appoint his replacement. People are seriously talking about how the Dems might flip the house in 2018, something no one would be talking about if Hillary had won.

And then we get to this... ****, ****, ****, ****....

Second, in many ways, they may be right in the long run. The GOP's messaging remains absolutely horrible, and the party appears to still be incredibly tone deaf to the country's changing demographics. If the GOP doesn't wake up, and soon, the "progressives" will get exactly want they want.

YOU STUPID ****, I'm going to explain this to you one more time.

The problem with the GOP is not it's "messaging". In fact, they do a fantastic job of getting dumb ***** like Ray to vote against their own economic interests by playing on his racism and misogyny.

The problem is that what the GOP actually stands for is massively fucked up. They stand for making us all work harder so that rich people can have more. Where we all have to work 2-4 jobs in order to maintain something even vaguely resembling the middle class lifestyle our parents had.

If the GOP were honest about what they stood for, the bottom 40% wouldn't vote for them, because they have less than 1% of the wealth. The middle 20% who have only 5% of the wealth and are struggling wouldn't vote for them either. Even the fourth quintile, making between 80-100K would hard time rationalizing voting GOP, as they are probably right on the bubble and had to work two jobs to get there.

Only the top 20% could really make a good case for voting GOP, as they have 83% of the wealth and their policies actually do benefit them.

So how does the GOP use messaging to get people to vote for such an awful state of affairs? "Hey, that Black person wants to break into your house". "Hey, that Mexican wants to take your job." "Hey, that homo wants to use the same bathroom you do!!!"

And they've been getting away with this shit since Tricky Dick, so please don't tell me the "messaging' is the problem.

You don't think I'll actually read that, do you?


.

 

[JoeB131]

No, because Lakesha was irresponsible, had five kids with no job, and the taxpayers will have to support her and her family for her entire life. SS and Medicare is something we all funded our entire lives. Big difference.

You see, guy, here's your problem. YOu actually think that racist bile you spew every day is true.

Reality one- Most people on welfare are white.
Reality two - Most people on welfare are only on it for a few years.
Reality three - most people on assistance have jobs, just not jobs that pay very well.

Yet gun violence and gun deaths have been decreasing since the 90's.

No it hasn't, and it's still too high.

Yes we need our guns because no matter what, the criminals will always have theirs. Our ability to have and use firearms is a deterrent to crime. That's why most mass shootings take place in gun-free zones.

Guy, mass shooters shoot places where there are PEOPLE. And, no, most gun violence isn't "Criminals', it's regular folks who should have never had a gun to start with.

Also, - Income taxes are only a fraction of all taxes paid. Add in all taxes, that tax burden shifts to the working class,and it shouldn't.

Working fine? You mean Arizona's rates didn't double this year? You mean everybody is insured? You mean insurance companies are not dropping like flies because they can't afford to take the loss any longer?

The places that aren't doing fine are the places where Republican governors refused to take advantage of the ACA's opportunities...

And frankly, getting rid of the insurance companies would be the best thing, ever.

 

[JoeB131]

You don't think I'll actually read that, do you?

Naw, you are too pompous to actually accept any truth other than your own pomposity.

I've given up on reasoning with you, and have moved on to "correcting" and "mocking".

 

[JoeB131]

Absolutely. That's why the Democrats are pushing so hard to make whites a minority in this country. All minorities mostly vote Democrat. Some whites are waking up to this strategy, but many still are not.

Naw, if white "woke up", they'd realize that the asshole in the corner office isn't your friend even if he has the same skin pigmentation that you do.

But your boss cancels your health insurance, and you blame the black guy.

 

[Mac1958]

You don't think I'll actually read that, do you?

Naw, you are too pompous to actually accept any truth other than your own pomposity.

I've given up on reasoning with you, and have moved on to "correcting" and "mocking".

"The Truth"



Anyone who doesn't eagerly devour one of ol' Joe's hyper-partisan manifestos is just a CRAZY person!

CRAZY, I say!!!


.

 

[JoeB131]

Anyone who doesn't eagerly devour one of ol' Joe's hyper-partisan manifestos is just a CRAZY person!

CRAZY, I say!!!

Oh, no, I don't think you're crazy.

Just pompous and full of yourself..

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

Absolutely. That's why the Democrats are pushing so hard to make whites a minority in this country. All minorities mostly vote Democrat. Some whites are waking up to this strategy, but many still are not.

Naw, if white "woke up", they'd realize that the asshole in the corner office isn't your friend even if he has the same skin pigmentation that you do.

But your boss cancels your health insurance, and you blame the black guy.

Without the black guy, I would still have insurance today. I had it 20 years before the little commies ruined that for many people--not just myself.

 

[JoeB131]

Without the black guy, I would still have insurance today. I had it 20 years before the little commies ruined that for many people--not just myself.

If your policy disappeared after ACA, it's because it didn't really provide any coverage. I'm sorry you fell for your boss's scam for so many years, but you are kind of like the guy who blames the messenger.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

You see, guy, here's your problem. YOu actually think that racist bile you spew every day is true.

Reality one- Most people on welfare are white.
Reality two - Most people on welfare are only on it for a few years.
Reality three - most people on assistance have jobs, just not jobs that pay very well.

One: there are more white people on welfare programs because whites are a majority in this country. Would you like to compare per capita numbers?

Two: most people are on welfare for a short time, work a few months or a year, and go right back on it. Plus welfare for children is unlimited. Even illegals get welfare for their kids in this country.

Three: yes, many of those people do have jobs, and they make sure to stay under their income limit to keep those government goodies coming in. Some of our customers use temp agencies. When they ask the temps to work overtime, they refuse. Why? Because they can only make so much money every month before the government reduces their benefits.

No it hasn't, and it's still too high.

Guy, mass shooters shoot places where there are PEOPLE. And, no, most gun violence isn't "Criminals', it's regular folks who should have never had a gun to start with.

Also, - Income taxes are only a fraction of all taxes paid. Add in all taxes, that tax burden shifts to the working class,and it shouldn't.

Payroll taxes are savings accounts. They don't fund anything except SS and Medicare which you will likely get back if you live our average lifespan. Income taxes are what pays for everything else, and nearly half the country doesn't pay those taxes. The top 20% of wage earners in this country pay for nearly all our income taxes that you and I do't pay. You don't have a federal income tax deduction out of your paycheck.

The places that aren't doing fine are the places where Republican governors refused to take advantage of the ACA's opportunities...

And frankly, getting rid of the insurance companies would be the best thing, ever.

Right, then we can go to a government system because every single government system we have is in trouble or soon to be, but you leftists don't understand that.

Insanity is doing the same stupid things over and over again, and expecting different results each time.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

Without the black guy, I would still have insurance today. I had it 20 years before the little commies ruined that for many people--not just myself.

If your policy disappeared after ACA, it's because it didn't really provide any coverage. I'm sorry you fell for your boss's scam for so many years, but you are kind of like the guy who blames the messenger.

No, big ears made it easier for employers to drop coverage. No employer likes dealing with healthcare, but they had no choice because they would lose employees if they dropped it, and wouldn't be able to get new employees when they needed more help.

Commie Care gave employers that option. It makes no sense to find different employment because that next employer might do the exact same thing. Prior to Commie Care, most employers would never dream of not having that benefit.

Correct, our insurance was not that great, but I'd take it back any day of the week. Bad insurance is better than no insurance. And we have no insurance thanks to government meddling where it didn't belong.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

There is some truth to that, but the reason cities were abandoned was because of white flight. That was accelerated by bussing. Nobody wanted forced bussing, so the people that could afford to move out of the city did.

so don't pretend it was about who was mayor.

Actually, I moved out of the city for reasons that had nothing to do with busing. It had to do with traffic, corrupt cops, no place to park, and the fact most of the jobs moved out to the suburbs because it was easier to build a new factory in Aurora than refurbish an old one in Chicago. Aurora is kind of a dump, too, but they have lots of land.

That may be you, but most others got out of the city because of white flight and bussing.

Most of my family lived in the city until bussing came along. That's when they all moved out of the city and into the suburbs where there was no bussing. The only exception to that was my one aunt who managed to send her children to private Catholic school.

The Mayor of Cleveland and many on the council are corrupt. The Mayor hired an ex councilwoman right out of prison for his administration. One Councilman has been busted for DUI three times, and he's still a Councilman. The FBI cleaned house with our Democrat county leaders. Many of them went to jail for corruption.

 

[JoeB131]

One: there are more white people on welfare programs because whites are a majority in this country. Would you like to compare per capita numbers?

Irrelevent to the point.

Two: most people are on welfare for a short time, work a few months or a year, and go right back on it. Plus welfare for children is unlimited. Even illegals get welfare for their kids in this country.

Yes, because Jesus said, "Thou Shall Starve the children if they came from the wrong country, verily.

Schmuck.

Three: yes, many of those people do have jobs, and they make sure to stay under their income limit to keep those government goodies coming in. Some of our customers use temp agencies. When they ask the temps to work overtime, they refuse. Why? Because they can only make so much money every month before the government reduces their benefits.

Well, maybe your shithead customers should pay a living wage, and that wouldn't be an issue.

so let me get this straight. Your customers don't pay a living wage, your boss won't give you health insurance, and you think Capitalism is wonderful and we totally need more of that shit.

Payroll taxes are savings accounts.

No, they're NOT! Truly, that has to be the most retarded thing you've said here. The main reason why SS is in such trouble is that people starting with your boy Reagan took that money that was supposed to be set aside for this stuff and used it to buy bombers and give tax cuts to rich people.

Add in sales taxes, payroll taxes, etc... and the tax burden shifts away from the Rich, where it belongs, and to the middle class.

Right, then we can go to a government system because every single government system we have is in trouble or soon to be, but you leftists don't understand that.

What I understand is that those government systems only get in trouble when Republicans run them.

No, big ears made it easier for employers to drop coverage. No employer likes dealing with healthcare, but they had no choice because they would lose employees if they dropped it, and wouldn't be able to get new employees when they needed more help.

Guy, employers who dropped insurance probably would have dropped it without ACA because frankly, they are the kind of bottom feeder.

Just like if you weren't a bottom feeder, you could easily throw out some resumes and get a job that pays for insurance.

But do keep blaming Obama for your poor life choices. My guess is your life is going to be truly fucked up after for years of Biff, and you'll blame Obama for that, too.