Democrats Ponder New Strategies On Abortion, Including Welcoming More Pro-Life Folks

[NATO AIR]

I don't think anyone needs to worry about abstinence only being taught in school, it's much more the other way around with abstinence getting very little attention. Truly I think the sex ed is pretty realistic in schools starting with 7& 8 year olds being taught how to put condoms on cucumbers.........Nice way to take away their innocence quickly.

forgive me i've only seen abstinence only education in my limited experience.

in public high school we were taught no sex-ed prior to that level, and then abstinence was preached to a bunch of kids who snickered after being corrupted by MTV and immoral parents, then a little 5 minute speech at the end of the course about using "protection and birth control"

 

[Bonnie]

forgive me i've only seen abstinence only education in my limited experience.

in public high school we were taught no sex-ed prior to that level, and then abstinence was preached to a bunch of kids who snickered after being corrupted by MTV and immoral parents, then a little 5 minute speech at the end of the course about using "protection and birth control"

Really? where was this school? In mine we were taught nothing about abstinence, and everything about everything else sex related......

 

[NATO AIR]

Really? where was this school? In mine we were taught nothing about abstinence, and everything about everything else sex related......

Trinity High School, Trinity,NC

 

[Bonnie]

Trinity High School, Trinity,NC

See I knew it had to be somewhere South of the Mason Dixon line. There's still hope for us in the South at least. :clap1:

 

[NATO AIR]

See I knew it had to be somewhere South of the Mason Dixon line. There's still hope for us in the South at least. :clap1:

So what are your thoughts on what should be done to upgrade and reform the antiquated, hideously expensive adoption system in this nation?

my sister paid over 40,000 dollars in fees to adopt a local SC girl... that is sick.

 

[Bonnie]

So what are your thoughts on what should be done to upgrade and reform the antiquated, hideously expensive adoption system in this nation?

my sister paid over 40,000 dollars in fees to adopt a local SC girl... that is sick.

It is sick and very sad, that some exploit that situation, I wouldn't know where to start honestly. But it should be because so many couples who can't have children are desperate to adopt and because of the abortion rate, babies are so hard to find, and most couples are looking outside the US and so the lawyers fees are insanely high.

 

[NATO AIR]

babies are so hard to find

you should visit jeb bush's hellhole of a department of children services program... there are many babies, toddlers and young children very eager to have new, loving parents, but partly due to insanely difficult rules and massive costs, are often abandoned to a sickeningly corrupt and vicious state system... i have heard from others the same is true in other states, including NC (where the democrat gov, easley, promised to clean it up, and hasn't), VA and NY

 

[sagegirl]

There are many reasons to protect a woman's privacy as far as her reproductive health goes. Other considerations are:
To the issue of the immorality of abortion I say this: There are many aborted zygotes (fertilized eggs) discarded in the artificial insemination and invitro fertilization process but I do not hear the protests that would ban these procedures.....rather I sense support for these poor couples who so want a child that they experiment with every new technique to produce a child regardless of how many embryos end up discarded in the mix. You cannot have it both ways folks....a child in a petri dish should be as important to you as any other child.....
All children should be wanted....ideally their biological parents want them and there are adoptive parents that offer "unwanted babies" a loving nurturing home. Why then do we have so many children in foster care? The foster care program is not known for providing the best of enviornments for children, in fact, we hear horror stories of the circumstances of foster care. How is it that they are not in adoptive loving homes? Why arent these children as precious as the unborn, or the newly born? It is just too easy in this society to support a right to be born but to really fall flat when a child is left abandoned . We have a predetermined survival mechanism that bonds us to the cute wide eyes of a newborn baby but it does not extend itself to a child say in their terrible two's, much less an angry, defiant, abused, neglected, or rejected child of 11 or 12 (a victim of the foster care system ?). It takes love, maturity, patience, wisdom, and a great deal of self sacrifice to sucessfully nurture a child. Under the best of circumstances, even with the best intentions, many times the process fails. The stigma of abandonment is a brutal handicap.
I dont think irresponsible behavior that results in pregnancy should either be condoned, or condemned. A woman who finds herself pregnant and does not want to be pregnant bears a great burden. Any woman who sees abortion as an easy way out of this unfortunate situation is as careless as anyone who would advocate she be obligated to have a child because of her stupid mistake. The real victim here could be said to be the unwanted child, not the unborn child.
I think sex education, and birth control methods should be commonly known.
Abstinence is great but just remember how it was when you were 16, or 20, whatever. Sex is a very natural and powerful drive, and it is easy to succumb to the temptation without full regard for the consequences.
The right to choose provides a woman with the power to take responsibility for her actions one way or the other. Honestly, we have have no business interferring.

 

[ciplexian]

Why force the mother to choose between an abortion and giving her child away to a total stranger if this is not necessary? I'm sure many women have chosen abortion because they don't want to know that they have a child out there that has to go through the terrible child services program at worst, or being raised by someone else at best. At the same time they simply may not be able to afford to have a child and raise it in a proper manner giving him or her a chance to succeed in life. Heres my suggestion

1. Say that when mothers or fathers have a new child in the family, they have the right to stay home for 8 weeks with pay, and come back to the job after that 8 weeks with no discrimination. Instead of employers paying for this, which would hurt them, employees would pay for this benefit themselves out of payroll taxes. Hence it is sort of like a child insurance.

2. Say that the government should fund the availability of free child care services for those living in or near poverty, up until the child graduates middle school, so parents can work without leaving children alone, during the day.

I'm sure that when the pressures for women to have abortions are addressed and alleviated, we can save the lives of the unborn without infringing on the "rights" held dear by so many or putting political capital in the difficult task of overturning Roe v Wade. I see no reason why pro-choice people would not get behind this, as it leaves all rights intact, and I see no reason why pro-life people would not, as it is much easier than banning abortion and it will undoubtedly save many fetuses' lives.

 

[Bonnie]

Why force the mother to choose between an abortion and giving her child away to a total stranger if this is not necessary? I'm sure many women have chosen abortion because they don't want to know that they have a child out there that has to go through the terrible child services program at worst, or being raised by someone else at best. At the same time they simply may not be able to afford to have a child and raise it in a proper manner giving him or her a chance to succeed in life. Heres my suggestion

And so naturally your answer is to kill the baby rather than let it have a chance at life with someone who actually wants it? We are supposed to feel it's okay to kill a baby because the mother doesn't want to go thru life knowing they have a child out there........Can that be any more selfish of an answer??????????????

 

[Bonnie]

There are many reasons to protect a woman's privacy as far as her reproductive health goes. Other considerations are:

To the issue of the immorality of abortion I say this: There are many aborted zygotes (fertilized eggs) discarded in the artificial insemination and invitro fertilization process but I do not hear the protests that would ban these procedures.....rather I sense support for these poor couples who so want a child that they experiment with every new technique to produce a child regardless of how many embryos end up discarded in the mix. You cannot have it both ways folks....a child in a petri dish should be as important to you as any other child.....

Prof life groups do protest against this, and in fact is just as important to them as abortion itself much to the endless criticism they face from everyone about how narow minded and insensitive they are to those who can't have children!!

I think sex education, and birth control
methods should be commonly known.

They already are in spades!!! Seems no one is paying attention... In fact the only thing not being taught is abstience

 

[5stringJeff]

To the issue of the immorality of abortion I say this: There are many aborted zygotes (fertilized eggs) discarded in the artificial insemination and invitro fertilization process but I do not hear the protests that would ban these procedures.....rather I sense support for these poor couples who so want a child that they experiment with every new technique to produce a child regardless of how many embryos end up discarded in the mix. You cannot have it both ways folks....a child in a petri dish should be as important to you as any other child.....

You bring up a great point. In fact there is an organization called Snowflakes that takes those fertilized eggs and makes them available to sterile couples. I frankly would like to see a lot more of these couples able to have kids - my sister included.

I dont think irresponsible behavior that results in pregnancy should either be condoned, or condemned. A woman who finds herself pregnant and does not want to be pregnant bears a great burden. Any woman who sees abortion as an easy way out of this unfortunate situation is as careless as anyone who would advocate she be obligated to have a child because of her stupid mistake. The real victim here could be said to be the unwanted child, not the unborn child.

Again, I think you are missing the point. If a child is killed while in the womb, it IS a victim. If a child is born into the world, but given the chance to be adopted into a loving family, how is that child a victim?

I think sex education, and birth control methods should be commonly known. Abstinence is great but just remember how it was when you were 16, or 20, whatever. Sex is a very natural and powerful drive, and it is easy to succumb to the temptation without full regard for the consequences.
The right to choose provides a woman with the power to take responsibility for her actions one way or the other. Honestly, we have have no business interferring.

The responsibility for both women and men is to approach sex with the knowledge that it could possibly wind up with a pregnancy. That is what is missing from most sex ed, IMO. Teens are taught that if they use a condom, they won't get pregnant, which is of course not correct. Teens should be taught that abstinence is the only way to prevent pregnancy.

 

[ciplexian]

And so naturally your answer is to kill the baby rather than let it have a chance at life with someone who actually wants it? We are supposed to feel it's okay to kill a baby because the mother doesn't want to go thru life knowing they have a child out there........Can that be any more selfish of an answer??????????????

No my answer isn't "to kill the baby". I haven't even stated my position on abortion rights yet. You never addressed my suggestion though. All the pro-life side's whining about the legality of abortion isn't going to set anywhere because that issue is not decided by our elected representatives and hence the usual whining isn't so effective. Otherwise the PBA ban would have taken effect by now. Meanwhile the abortion rate in the U.S. is over three times that of the Netherlands, which has more liberal abortion rules. So why not try and reduce the number of abortions through non-coercive means?

 

[Bonnie]

No my answer isn't "to kill the baby". I haven't even stated my position on abortion rights yet. You never addressed my suggestion though. All the pro-life side's whining about the legality of abortion isn't going to set anywhere because that issue is not decided by our elected representatives and hence the usual whining isn't so effective. Otherwise the PBA ban would have taken effect by now. Meanwhile the abortion rate in the U.S. is over three times that of the Netherlands, which has more liberal abortion rules. So why not try and reduce the number of abortions through non-coercive means?

I believe every approach is being used to at least reduce the number of abortions, however it's still important to fight the legality of the ruling as it is a bogus ruling based on a rape that never happened, and not based on anything in the constitution itself, because when a government recognizes abortion as being legal it's sanctioning it as well, giving it credence as a society. So yes every means should be used, parents teaching children it's wrong, prayer to enlighten people, more alternatives to abortion being offered, etc.......All of those things combined would be effective.

 

[no1tovote4]

I believe every approach is being used to at least reduce the number of abortions, however it's still important to fight the legality of the ruling as it is a bogus ruling based on a rape that never happened, and not based on anything in the constitution itself, because when a government recognizes abortion as being legal it's sanctioning it as well, giving it credence as a society. So yes every means should be used, parents teaching children it's wrong, prayer to enlighten people, more alternatives to abortion being offered, etc.......All of those things combined would be effective.

It would help to regulate it as an invasive surgery as well. When giving surgery doctors are required to raise the issues of negative results. Big Abortion Corporations are not required to do anything of the sort, and in fact Planned Parenthood actually describes Abortion as a "positive experience". Large corporations should not be allowed to take advantage of girls in those circumstances this way. There is more than the obvious negative impact to the baby. There is a higher instance of Breast Cancer in those who have had abortions, as well as serious psychological issues later in life. Many have a very hard time dealing with the guilt complex they end up with later and find very few councillors that can help with that issue.

There are too many negative impacts on our society from this practice to let it stand as it is, even if it could not be made simply illegal.

 

[ciplexian]

I believe every approach is being used to at least reduce the number of abortions, however it's still important to fight the legality of the ruling as it is a bogus ruling based on a rape that never happened, and not based on anything in the constitution itself, because when a government recognizes abortion as being legal it's sanctioning it as well, giving it credence as a society. So yes every means should be used, parents teaching children it's wrong, prayer to enlighten people, more alternatives to abortion being offered, etc.......All of those things combined would be effective.

But not every means is being used. Poor women or families living below the poverty level still have to choose between having a child and taking the time to raise him or her, and having a job to have the money to pay for the bills every week and put food on the table. They cannot afford quality child care, and it usually isn't available anyway. And they cannot afford to take time off from work, if they did they might get fired. A 1998 study showed that over 32% of women listed "cannot afford a baby" or that having a child will disrupt education or job as reason for having an abortion, and that number is probably even higher since other women listed something vague like 'don't want a child'. Since there are 1.3 million abortions every year, it's safe to say at least 400,000 abortions take place in the U.S. every year solely for these economic reasons that could be addressed by Congress. I say, provide for family leave time through the payroll tax, and provide free child care for those below or near the poverty line.

And I don't see how Congressional Republicans can smugly proclaim themselves pro-life and pass ineffectual bills they know will get tied up in courts, yet do nothing on the legislative side to address the reasons that abortions are obtained.