Debate Now Democrats: If Not Hillary, then Who?

[BlackSand]

The bench for the Democrats is plenty deep. There are a number of potential candidates for the Democratic party. O'Malley, Warren, Webb and Sanders have all been urged to run by various segments of the party. Joe Biden is a possibility. Andrew Cuomo, Kirsten Gillibrand, Mark Warner Brian Schweitzer and Amy Klobuchar have all got what it takes to earn serious consideration. And.....in spite of Biden's reputation for gaffes and schtick......not a single one of them is a nutjob clown.

Unlike the GOP, the Democrats have a clear front runner. Clinton has the name recognition, the background and the financial support to mount a fierce campaign. That is why you haven't seen the media attention focused on any of the others.

Now.....who would I like to see in the White House if Clinton bows out of the race and a Democrat is to win? Elizabeth Warren. She is, first and foremost, brilliant. By far the most intelligent of the field. She gets it when it comes to how our economy should be managed in order to fire up the engine of the middle class. She is pragmatic.....and thus would be able to handle foreign policy matters. She communicates exceptionally well......even when addressing complex issues. She oozes integrity.

Problem......she isn't going to run.

I wouldn't count Senator Warren out ... She has a strong appeal with younger voters.
If Hillary Clinton does happen to be out of the race for whatever reason ... I think there is a much larger chance that Senator Warren would lead the ticket.

The others ... Especially Schweitzer and O'Malley have the machine working for them ... But I don't know if that is just fluff to add depth to the field.
I think Cuomo has a lot to offer as well ... But I am not too sure the base would like the more "establishment" route he would take.

With Webb and Sanders ... I think they have as much bad press as they have good ... Either with the party or from outside influences.
I personally am not familiar with Gillibrand or Klobuchar ... Will have to look those two up.

Thanks for the input.

.

 

[BlackSand]

Are you feeling OK?

The phrase is "Democratic nomination".

Oh ... I am feeling fine, Thank you.
And I wouldn't completely rule out a current third party candidate joining the fold to get the Democrat nomination.
Not that I had anyone in mind ... But who knows, and I wasn't going to rule out what you could come up with.

.

 

[LoneLaugher]

All I can tell you is that Charlie Pierce....a journalist who knows her well....has convinced me that she isn't running. She has plainly stated that she isn't running.

 

[Foxfyre]

REPUBLICANS AND OTHER NON-DEMOCRATS: IF NOBODY PUTS UP A CANDIDATE WHO CAN BEAT THE DEMOCRATIC NOMINEE, WHO DO YOU WANT THAT DEMOCRATIC NOMINEE TO BE AND WHY?

Joe Manchin. I like the guy personally, and he isn't afraid to buck the party line on occasion. He was well liked in West Virginia.

TK mentioned Joe Manchin of WVa.

Scanning over the 'On the Issues" for him, I think TK is on to something. This guy I could get really interested in.

•Pro-life; pro-NRA; anti-EPA. (Jul 2010)

Corporations
•Endorsed by U.S. Chamber of Commerce. (Oct 2010)
•Cut corporate income tax & business franchise tax. (Nov 2008)
•8 goals for Open for Business commitments. (Feb 2005)

Crime
•Accelerated parole system for non-violent offenders. (Jan 2010)
•More sexual predator laws; more State police pay. (Nov 2008)

Energy and Environment
•Obama's greenhouse gas plan won't solve the problem. (Oct 2010)
•Named coal West Virginia's official state rock. (Jul 2010)
•No regulation of greenhouse gases by EPA. (Jun 2010)
•Stand up for our coal miners and their families. (Jan 2010)
•Fund cellulosic biofuel research in Farm Bill. (Oct 2007)
•Promote polygen--clean diesel from coal plants. (Sep 2006)
•Voted YES on barring EPA from regulating greenhouse gases. (Apr 2011)
•Stop harmful EPA regulation of greenhouse gas emissions. (Mar 2010)

More here:
Joe Manchin III on the Issues

 

[Foxfyre]

The bench for the Democrats is plenty deep. There are a number of potential candidates for the Democratic party. O'Malley, Warren, Webb and Sanders have all been urged to run by various segments of the party. Joe Biden is a possibility. Andrew Cuomo, Kirsten Gillibrand, Mark Warner Brian Schweitzer and Amy Klobuchar have all got what it takes to earn serious consideration. And.....in spite of Biden's reputation for gaffes and schtick......not a single one of them is a nutjob clown.

Unlike the GOP, the Democrats have a clear front runner. Clinton has the name recognition, the background and the financial support to mount a fierce campaign. That is why you haven't seen the media attention focused on any of the others.

Now.....who would I like to see in the White House if Clinton bows out of the race and a Democrat is to win? Elizabeth Warren. She is, first and foremost, brilliant. By far the most intelligent of the field. She gets it when it comes to how our economy should be managed in order to fire up the engine of the middle class. She is pragmatic.....and thus would be able to handle foreign policy matters. She communicates exceptionally well......even when addressing complex issues. She oozes integrity.

Problem......she isn't going to run.

I wouldn't count Senator Warren out ... She has a strong appeal with younger voters.
If Hillary Clinton does happen to be out of the race for whatever reason ... I think there is a much larger chance that Senator Warren would lead the ticket.

The others ... Especially Schweitzer and O'Malley have the machine working for them ... But I don't know if that is just fluff to add depth to the field.
I think Cuomo has a lot to offer as well ... But I am not too sure the base would like the more "establishment" route he would take.

With Webb and Sanders ... I think they have as much bad press as they have good ... Either with the party or from outside influences.
I personally am not familiar with Gillibrand or Klobuchar ... Will have to look those two up.

Thanks for the input.

.

Hmm.

Elizabeth Warren - On the Issues

Pretty far left, but my impression is a lot of 'feel good' slogans and sound bites designed to appeal to the left with little substance and very few specifics except in the area of abortion.

I don't find much here to change my conviction that I do not want this lady to be President.

Abortion:
•No bankruptcy for pro-life groups to avoid court levies. (Apr 2014)
•No Supreme Court nominees who oppose legal abortion. (Sep 2012)
•Staunch Pro-Abortion stance. (Aug 2011)
•Supports public abortion funding. (Oct 2012)
•Supports churches providing birth control. (Oct 2012)
•Ban anti-abortion limitations on abortion services. (Nov 2013)
•Endorsed by EMILY's list for pro-choice Democratic women. (Aug 2012)

Economics
•Banking lobbyists fought me on bank consumer protection. (Apr 2014)
•Bankruptcy is due to job loss or divorce, not deadbeats. (Apr 2014)
•2005 bankruptcy law: great for companies & bad for families. (Apr 2014)
•Everyone hated "Too Big To Fail" except bankers who benefit. (Apr 2014)
•Make bank complaint hotline public, to force self-policing. (Apr 2014)
•How we spend federal money is about choices. (Apr 2014)
•Financial crisis due to deregulation, not boom-bust cycle. (Apr 2014)
•Balanced approach to deficit reduction. (Sep 2012)
•Deregulation has created Wild West conditions at banks. (Nov 2011)
•Increased financial transparency and accountability. (Apr 2010)
•Harsher rules on credit agencies. (Apr 2010)
•Opposes a constitutional BBA. (Oct 2012)

Civil Rights
•Build future for ALL our kids, including transgendered. (Apr 2014)
•Native American heritage from mother in Oklahoma territory. (Apr 2014)
•We need a reliable vote for equal pay for equal work. (Oct 2012)
•Warren has fought for women throughout her career. (Jan 2012)
•Repeal DOMA; repeal DADT; support ENDA. (Dec 2011)
•Voted YES on reauthorizing the Violence Against Women Act. (Feb 2013)
•Opposes defining traditional marriage. (Oct 2012)
•Endorsed by The Feminist Majority indicating a pro-women's rights stance. (Aug 2012)
•Enforce against wage discrimination based on gender. (Jan 2013)
•Enforce against anti-gay discrimination in public schools. (Jun 2013

Corporations
•Banks are larger now than when "Too Big To Fail" in 2008. (Apr 2014)
•2010 Time cover story: The sheriff of Wall Street. (Apr 2014)
•My gaffe: Created intellectual foundation for Occupy Wall St. (Apr 2014)
•Corporations are not people; but system is rigged for them. (Apr 2014)
•FactCheck: negotiated insurance deal for asbestos victims. (Apr 2014)
•FactCheck: Insurers should pay victims, plus future immunity. (Sep 2012)
•People feel like the system is rigged, because it is. (Sep 2012)
•Rebuild the middle class instead of CEO tax breaks. (Dec 2011)
•Same rules for trillion-dollar institutions as rest of us. (Nov 2011)
•Bankruptcies result from mishaps, not from gaming the system. (Sep 2011)
•Plenty of people look out for billion dollar corporations. (Sep 2011)
•Small businesses need a level playing field. (Sep 2011)
•New regulatory regime to protect financial consumers. (Oct 2010)
•Scourge of the banking industry, on behalf of consumers. (May 2010)
•Apply consumer protection rules to banks. (Jul 2007)

More here:
Elizabeth Warren on the Issues

 

[LoneLaugher]

I'd suggest listening to her speak on issues. Here is an excellent example.

Full Show Elizabeth Warren on Fighting Back Against Wall St. Giants Moyers Company BillMoyers.com

 

[Foxfyre]

I'd suggest listening to her speak on issues. Here is an excellent example.

Full Show Elizabeth Warren on Fighting Back Against Wall St. Giants Moyers Company BillMoyers.com

Actually I have heard that speech. And at least portions of others by her. She is usually personable, likable, and is a good speaker. But sorry. I think she would make an absolutely dreadful President. Given a choice between her and Hillary, I would vote for Hillary in a heartbeat. And I don't want Hillary to be President either.

 

[LoneLaugher]

I'd suggest listening to her speak on issues. Here is an excellent example.

Full Show Elizabeth Warren on Fighting Back Against Wall St. Giants Moyers Company BillMoyers.com

Actually I have heard that speech. And at least portions of others by her. She is usually personable, likable, and is a good speaker. But sorry. I think she would make an absolutely dreadful President. Given a choice between her and Hillary, I would vote for Hillary in a heartbeat. And I don't want Hillary to be President either.

Umm......that wasn't a speech.

 

[Foxfyre]

I'd suggest listening to her speak on issues. Here is an excellent example.

Full Show Elizabeth Warren on Fighting Back Against Wall St. Giants Moyers Company BillMoyers.com

Actually I have heard that speech. And at least portions of others by her. She is usually personable, likable, and is a good speaker. But sorry. I think she would make an absolutely dreadful President. Given a choice between her and Hillary, I would vote for Hillary in a heartbeat. And I don't want Hillary to be President either.

Umm......that wasn't a speech.

My bad. I meant to say interview. Sorry. I was reading this when I made that post:
The Speech That Could Make Elizabeth Warren the Next President of the United States Miles Mogulescu

 

[HenryBHough]

Not that long ago I was made aware of a state where The Democrat Party suddenly figured out they had nominated an unelectable candidate to run for governor.

They pulled together a back-room deal with an "independent" candidate who had captured the media spotlight for other reasons and substituted that person for their destined-to-fail chump. Said chump willingly submitted to becoming the candidate for the #2 spot and the annointee for that "graciously" stepped down.

It worked.

So maybe there's an independent out there who'd like to be president. This could be the way for a gracious exit when the cold light of day shines on The Democrat Party's first choice.

 

[Foxfyre]

I've been saying it for almost 2 years now, Hillary is far too right-wing for the Democrat base: she voted for Iraq and has missed the 2 Minute Hate on Free Enterprise. She was on the Board of Walmart ferchristsake!!!

I don't know how you can miss the big push for Lizzy Cheekbones, who is the female Obama, including a shady past of dubious claims, and a pathological liar who will do anything to further the Progressive Agenda

All valid reasons why you don't want certain people to be the nominee Frank. But let's assume for the purpose that the Democratic candidate, whomever it is, will be elected in 2016.

Who do you want that person to be?

Who I want would be Jack Kennedy. Unfortunately, he has no place in today's Democrat Party and would be disparaged as a Teaper by Boehner Republicans

I'd prefer to run against Lizzy "Cheekbones" Warren or Bernie Sander

Kennedy made some serious mistakes, but like Clinton, he was not a bad President. I also would not be dismayed if somebody like him was the Democratic nominee. But, as you point out, he isn't available.

So if we are resigned that a Democrat will be elected in 2016, and that Democrat won't be Hillary, is there anybody available now that you would prefer over all others?

I'm beginning to agree with that Boston Herald writer that the Democrats seem to have no bench at all. If their quarterback Hillary is out of the game, who do you send up?

Andy Cuomo has kept a low profile and since he's a Dem his scandals won't be reported. He's not obsessed with the Progressive Agenda -- at least not publicly. He might be the closest thing to another Bill Clinton

Okay let's look at Andy Cuomo on the issues:

I am not seeing a huge amount of Bill Clintonishness in there except on a very few issues.

Andrew Cuomo

On Abortion:
background on Abortion. •Codify state with federal law to allow 9th-month abortions. (May 2014)
•Let women make decision: pregnancy, adoption, or abortion. (Jan 2013)
•Fight for passage of the Reproductive Rights Act. (Nov 2010)
•Supports federal abortion funding. (Aug 2010)

On Economy:
•2015 Opportunity Agenda: cut $1.7B taxes; add $1.5B programs. (Jan 2015)
•Economic Blueprint: growth via development projects. (Jan 2012)
•1990s HUD: Sued banks to make more mortgage loans. (Nov 2010)
•OpEd: 2001 HUD Fannie/Freddie policy led to mortgage crisis. (Apr 2010)
•Upstate economy will be a priority, not “caboose”. (Mar 2002)

On Civil Rights:
•Pay equity for women; stop pregnancy discrimination. (Jan 2015)
•Women's Equality Act: Shatter the glass ceiling. (Jan 2013)
•Marriage equality for ALL New Yorkers. (Jan 2012)
•$200M contract support to get 20% MWBE contracts. (Jan 2012)
•Improved services to 2 million residents with disabilities. (Jan 2012)
•Supports same-sex marriage and same rights of marriage. (Jul 2011)
•Marriage equality gains 1,000 federal and 700 state rights. (Nov 2010)
•Require complying with MWBE reporting requirements. (Nov 2010)
•Our housing stock remains largely segregated. (Oct 2003)
•Opposes Amendment to prevent same sex marriage. (Aug 2010)

On Energy & Oil:
•Led multi-state effort to lower carbon emissions by 45%. (Jul 2014)
•New York Greenbank: $1 billion to spur the clean economy. (Jan 2013)
•Lower carbon emissions via market-based cap-and-trade system. (Jan 2013)
•Focus more attention on exploiting our solar potential. (Jan 2012)
•Power for Jobs: use low cost hydropower. (Jan 2011)
•Comprehensive study before exploring Marcellus Shale. (Nov 2010)
•Our consumption of fossil fuels causes permanent changes. (Oct 2003)
•Repower old power plants to increase efficiency. (Oct 2003)
•Letter to Congress supporting renewable energy tax credit. (Nov 2011)

More here:
Andrew Cuomo on the Issues

 

[Foxfyre]

Not that long ago I was made aware of a state where The Democrat Party suddenly figured out they had nominated an unelectable candidate to run for governor.

They pulled together a back-room deal with an "independent" candidate who had captured the media spotlight for other reasons and substituted that person for their destined-to-fail chump. Said chump willingly submitted to becoming the candidate for the #2 spot and the annointee for that "graciously" stepped down.

It worked.

So maybe there's an independent out there who'd like to be president. This could be the way for a gracious exit when the cold light of day shines on The Democrat Party's first choice.

A great Independent would be the logical solution for a lot of us if the GOP puts up another unappealing candidate and the Democratic candidate is completely unacceptable.

But for purposes of this debate, the Democrat will win in 2015. So for your personal preference or for the good of the country, whether you are Democrat, Republican, Independent or nothing at all, who would you want that Democrat to be?

 

[BlackSand]

Okay let's look at Andy Cuomo on the issues:

I am not seeing a huge amount of Bill Clintonishness in there except on a very few issues.

I am not sure but I think it was LoneLaughter that mentioned something about it earlier.
Andrew Cuomo's greatest asset may be the fact he knows when to keep his mouth shut and let everyone else fall apart.

.

 

[Foxfyre]

Okay let's look at Andy Cuomo on the issues:

I am not seeing a huge amount of Bill Clintonishness in there except on a very few issues.

I am not sure but I think it was LoneLaughter that mentioned something about it earlier.
Andrew Cuomo's greatest asset may be the fact he knows when to keep his mouth shut and let everyone else fall apart.
.

Not a bad talent to have. But after reviewing where he stands on the issues, posted a few posts earlier up there, I am pretty sure he isn't the Democrat I want as President if I have to have a Democrat.

 

[BlackSand]

Okay let's look at Andy Cuomo on the issues:

I am not seeing a huge amount of Bill Clintonishness in there except on a very few issues.

I am not sure but I think it was LoneLaughter that mentioned something about it earlier.
Andrew Cuomo's greatest asset may be the fact he knows when to keep his mouth shut and let everyone else fall apart.
.

Not a bad talent to have. But after reviewing where he stands on the issues, posted a few posts earlier up there, I am pretty sure he isn't the Democrat I want as President if I have to have a Democrat.

I think a Democrat President with the desire to let everyone else make the mistakes and a Republican controlled Congress would be better than a Democrat President on the warpath with half the country.

.

 

[Foxfyre]

Okay let's look at Andy Cuomo on the issues:

I am not seeing a huge amount of Bill Clintonishness in there except on a very few issues.

I am not sure but I think it was LoneLaughter that mentioned something about it earlier.
Andrew Cuomo's greatest asset may be the fact he knows when to keep his mouth shut and let everyone else fall apart.
.

Not a bad talent to have. But after reviewing where he stands on the issues, posted a few posts earlier up there, I am pretty sure he isn't the Democrat I want as President if I have to have a Democrat.

I think a Democrat President with the desire to let everyone else make the mistakes and a Republican controlled Congress would be better than a Democrat President on the warpath with half the country.

.

Well I can't argue with that. And I agree Cuomo would be less scarier President to me than Obama has been--in fact IMO most of the Democrats we've discussed so far would be a better President than Obama has been.

And at least with gridlock, unless you have a President who sees himself as the law separate from Congress, they aren't able to do as much damage as they do if they are free to pass bad legislation.

But I would like a President that wouldn't be a constant catalyst for gridlock when Congress really does need to pass a bill. How about one with some sense of fiscal restraint and with enough common sense to understand the unintended negative consequences that will almost certainly result from some legislation?

 

[Foxfyre]

This week's Washington Examiner posted its own Democratic 'bench' if Hillary is not the 2016 candidate. It included several names we have already discussed and a bunch of names that I don't believe have come up yet:

Dannel Malloy - Ct
Tom Udall - NM
Bernie Sanders - Socialist
Jay Nixon - Mo
Bill Nelson - Fl
Martin Heinrich NM
Tom Wolf - PA
Al Gore - (Tn?) or has he relocated?
Steve Beshear - Ky
Amy Klobuchar - Mn
Joe Manchin - Va
John Hickenlooper - Co
Rahm Emmanuel - IL
Cory Booker - NJ
Jerry Brown - Ca
Joe Biden - Ct
Elizabeth Warren - Ma
Terry McAuliffe - Va
Andrew Cuomo - NY
Jim Webb - Va
Martin O'Malley - Md
21 Democrats who could maybe take Hillary Clinton s place in 2016 WashingtonExaminer.com

 

[Foxfyre]

There is this re Martin O'Malley coming out of Iowa this week:

. . .During O'Malley's appearance at the Scott County Democrats' “Red, White and Blue Dinner,” he offered a prescription for “making the dream true again” that includes raising the minimum wage, expanding Social Security benefits, making pre-kindergarten universally available and ensuring equal pay for women. “Sing it with me people,” O’Malley said. “When women succeed, America succeeds.”

The speech, which drew multiple standing ovations, both underscored O’Malley’s opportunities and the challenges in the nation’s first presidential nominating state, where early polls show Clinton with a commanding lead and O’Malley barely registering. In interviews afterward, many Democratic activists said they were only starting to learn about O’Malley. . . .
O Malley steps up Wall Street critique in swing through Iowa - The Washington Post
​

This guy may indeed be setting up to be a serious challenger for the nomination. But he is so far left of Hillary it makes me a bit nervous. So far he is barely registering in the polls but he has charisma, he's likable, he knows how to stir up positive reactions, and seems to be running a really smart pre-campaign. He may indeed be one to watch.

 

[HenryBHough]

I can't help feeling that Algore is going to try to upset the convention and get the nod. No logic in that; just a nagging something. Maybe I ate something that had been on the counter a little too long.....

 

[Foxfyre]

I can't help feeling that Algore is going to try to upset the convention and get the nod. No logic in that; just a nagging something. Maybe I ate something that had been on the counter a little too long.....

Well stranger things have been known to happen. Just when I think I have it all figured out how things are going to go, something happens to completely change the picture. So there's no way in heck I'm gonna say your 'nagging something' is less reliable than any speculation that any of us are throwing out here.