Debate Now Democrats: If Not Hillary, then Who?

Foxfyre

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Reading the political commentary from various sources over the last several months, it seemed a done deal that Hillary Clinton would be the Democratic nominee for President. It seemed even more of a done deal if Elizabeth Warren stayed out of the race and even then Elizabeth seemed to be a distant second according to most pundits.

But I'm also reading from different sources that Hillary's latest e-mail flap may in fact open the doors for others. Today's Boston Herald suggested that O'malley of Maryland could possibly become a contender.

That was interesting enough, but the comment in the article that caught my eye was the fact that a relative unknown like O'malley being a contender and no other names being seriously raised illustrates that the Democrats have essentially no 'bench' at all. There isn't much of a field of candidates to choose from.
Battenfeld Clinton email scandal may elevate former Maryland Gov. Martin O Malley Boston Herald

THE QUESTION TO BE DISCUSSED:

DEMOCRATS: IF HILLARY DOESN"T RUN, WHO DO YOU WANT THE DEMOCRATIC PRESIDENTIAL NOMINEE TO BE IN 2016 AND WHY?

REPUBLICANS AND OTHER NON-DEMOCRATS: IF NOBODY PUTS UP A CANDIDATE WHO CAN BEAT THE DEMOCRATIC NOMINEE, WHO DO YOU WANT THAT DEMOCRATIC NOMINEE TO BE AND WHY?

GUIDELINES FOR THIS DEBATE:

1. No ad hominem. Leave your opinion about the character or demeanor or attitude of the member posting or what he/she thinks, feels, wants, believes out of it. Focus on the member's post and not on the member.

2. We will not get bogged down in definitions or semantics. For purposes of this discussion:

Liberal/statist/political class/leftist/progressive are defined as all the same thing.

Conservative/right wing/libertarian (small "L") are defined as all the same thing.
3. Some light banter is okay, but please stay on topic as much as possible. It is suggested that it be approached that it is a certainty that the Democratic candidate is going to win and that candidate will not be Hilllary. Who do you want it to be?

Discuss.

 
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Foxfyre

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One addendum to the OP:

This thread is in the new structure debate forum. If you have not reiviewed C_Ks rules for this forum, it is recommended that you do so and then join right in.
 
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Foxfyre

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The little advertised Blue Dog Democrat coalition has offered three nanes for consideration for 2016 so far:
  • Jennifer Garrison (OH-6)
  • Gwen Graham (FL-2)
  • James Lee Witt (AR-4)
I'm going to guess that unless you are from one of those states, you probably have never heard of these people. I know I haven't so I will be looking them up today.

For my own self I long for the days that there were Democrats in Congress that I truly admired. Tim Penny, Minnesota, for instance was a true patriot and while more liberal than I am, he had his head on straight as to what is best for the country. And he and other Blue Dog Democrats were instrumental in achieving some major reforms during the 1990's. If the Democrats would run somebody like him, I would have to consider voting that way against some Republicans that I just don't want to be President.
 

BlackSand

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There is a school of thought going around that Hillary Clinton may hold more weight with the establishment than with the younger voters.

The premise pretty much establishes the idea that young people who don't remember the Clintons of the 90's ... Don't care for the Clintons of the new millennia.
It has also been suggested that Elizabeth Warren does hold more influence in that age bracket ... And partially because she is more outspoken about issues they see as being more in the forefront of their daily lives.

I think that although Senator warren is running a distant second ... She could still give Hillary a run for the money once full campaigning gets kicked off.

.
 
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Foxfyre

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There is a school of thought going around that Hillary Clinton may hold more weight with the establishment than with the younger voters.

The premise pretty much establishes the idea that young people who don't remember the Clintons of the 90's ... Don't care for the Clintons of the new millennia.
It has also been suggested that Elizabeth Warren does hold more influence in that age bracket ... And partially because she is more outspoken about issues they see as being more in the forefront of their daily lives.

I think that although Senator warren is running a distant second ... She could still give Hillary a run for the money once full campaigning gets kicked off.

.
I think you are right about that. But do you want Senator Warren to be the nominee?
 

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For my own self I long for the days that there were Democrats in Congress that I truly admired. Tim Penny, Minnesota, for instance was a true patriot and while more liberal than I am, he had his head on straight as to what is best for the country. And he and other Blue Dog Democrats were instrumental in achieving some major reforms during the 1990's. If the Democrats would run somebody like him, I would have to consider voting that way against some Republicans that I just don't want to be President.
I liked Senator Joe Lieberman better than most Democrats and some Republicans ... But I doubt he will be running for President.
He understood how to work across the aisle ... And how to aptly explain his positions without getting messed up in gutter politics.

.
 

HenryBHough

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Perhaps it's time for a woman to be president.

I'd suggest Nancy Pelosi as the embodiment of party principles.

I do not, however, believe America is ready for both a female president and female vice president so would suggest Harry Reid as a running mate for Ms. Pelosi.

That would, however, pose a possible issue since both would be considered "west coasters" so perhaps the second spot might go to a younger eastern figure like Mr. DiBlasio of New York. He's a rising star, inexperienced but as VP he'd have eight years to acquire that before stepping up to the actual presidency.

I may be participating unfairly here as I am not a registered Democrat. Equally, I am not a registered member of any political party; registered to vote as "undeclared". A status I have maintained for some 50 years.
 

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I think you are right about that. But do you want Senator Warren to be the nominee?
Yes I do ... But for all the wrong reasons.
I think she is a fruitcake and would guarantee better chances for anyone else.

To be fair ... That is just my opinion, and I could see the Senator as being a decent opponent.
I just also think that she stands to do as much damage to the Democrat party as good in the longrun.

.
 
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Perhaps it's time for a woman to be president.

I'd suggest Nancy Pelosi as the embodiment of party principles.

I do not, however, believe America is ready for both a female president and female vice president so would suggest Harry Reid as a running mate for Ms. Pelosi.

That would, however, pose a possible issue since both would be considered "west coasters" so perhaps the second spot might go to a younger eastern figure like Mr. DiBlasio of New York. He's a rising star, inexperienced but as VP he'd have eight years to acquire that before stepping up to the actual presidency.

I may be participating unfairly here as I am not a registered Democrat. Equally, I am not a registered member of any political party; registered to vote as "undeclared". A status I have maintained for some 50 years.
There is no requirement that anybody be even a registered voter, much less a member of any political party to participate here, Henry, but do you really want a Pelosi/Reid or Pelosi/DiBlasio ticket? Why?
 
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Foxfyre

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I think you are right about that. But do you want Senator Warren to be the nominee?
Yes I do ... But for all the wrong reasons.
I think she is a fruitcake and would guarantee better chances for anyone else.

To be fair ... That is just my opinion, and I could see the Senator as being a decent opponent.
I just also think that she stands to do as much damage to the Democrat party as good in the longrun.

.
But remember, the question is who do you want the Democratic nominee to be if the GOP or whomever puts up candidates who can't win and Hillary is out of the running? :)

In other words, for the purpose of this discussion, a Democratic candidate other than Hillary is going to win. So for the good of the country, who do you want that Democratic candidate to be?

I can say quickly, I do NOT want that candidate to be Elizabeth Warren. :)
 

CrusaderFrank

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I've been saying it for almost 2 years now, Hillary is far too right-wing for the Democrat base: she voted for Iraq and has missed the 2 Minute Hate on Free Enterprise. She was on the Board of Walmart ferchristsake!!!

I don't know how you can miss the big push for Lizzy Cheekbones, who is the female Obama, including a shady past of dubious claims, and a pathological liar who will do anything to further the Progressive Agenda
 

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I'd suggest Nancy Pelosi as the embodiment of party principles.
I totally agree with this part of your statement ... When Senator Pelosi starts talking you already know what she is going to say.
Where I think she sets the benchmark for party philosophy ... I don't think she would make a good candidate at the Presidential level.

Too much water under the bridge with Senator Pelosi ... Too many statements that can be rehashed.
The senator has a well-established reputation that would suffer greatly at the hands of those who either know her politics and don't like it ... Or don't know her politics but would rather have a fresher view of party direction.

.
 
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Foxfyre

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As long as one accepts that the site is not infallible, a very good site to evaluate the positions of all potential candidates is On The Issues:
OnTheIssues.org - Candidates on the Issues

On the Issues has profiles. for a meager field of seven Democratic candidates. (By comparison, they have 24 GOP profiles for potential candidates.)

The Democratic candidates listed so far:
Vice President Joe Biden (DE)
Former Secretary of State Hillary Clinton (NY)
Governor Andrew Cuomo (NY)
Chicago Mayor Rahm Emanuel (IL)
Governor Martin O`Malley (MD)
Governor Deval Patrick (MA)
Senator Elizabeth Warren (MA)

So if Hillary is removed from the field, does anybody else appeal to anybody here?
 
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I've been saying it for almost 2 years now, Hillary is far too right-wing for the Democrat base: she voted for Iraq and has missed the 2 Minute Hate on Free Enterprise. She was on the Board of Walmart ferchristsake!!!

I don't know how you can miss the big push for Lizzy Cheekbones, who is the female Obama, including a shady past of dubious claims, and a pathological liar who will do anything to further the Progressive Agenda
All valid reasons why you don't want certain people to be the nominee Frank. But let's assume for the purpose that the Democratic candidate, whomever it is, will be elected in 2016.

Who do you want that person to be?
 
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For my own self I long for the days that there were Democrats in Congress that I truly admired. Tim Penny, Minnesota, for instance was a true patriot and while more liberal than I am, he had his head on straight as to what is best for the country. And he and other Blue Dog Democrats were instrumental in achieving some major reforms during the 1990's. If the Democrats would run somebody like him, I would have to consider voting that way against some Republicans that I just don't want to be President.
I liked Senator Joe Lieberman better than most Democrats and some Republicans ... But I doubt he will be running for President.
He understood how to work across the aisle ... And how to aptly explain his positions without getting messed up in gutter politics.

.
But I believe Lieberman is still registered as Independent since the Democrats screwed him over, and therefore it is almost a certainty he will not be the Democratic candidate.

So if the Democratic candidate will win in 2016 and that candidate is not Hillary, who do you want that candidate to be?
 
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In all honesty, no names of people active in politics today are jumping out at me. Are there no serious Democratic contenders that we admire and would not have a problem imagining as President?
 

CrusaderFrank

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I've been saying it for almost 2 years now, Hillary is far too right-wing for the Democrat base: she voted for Iraq and has missed the 2 Minute Hate on Free Enterprise. She was on the Board of Walmart ferchristsake!!!

I don't know how you can miss the big push for Lizzy Cheekbones, who is the female Obama, including a shady past of dubious claims, and a pathological liar who will do anything to further the Progressive Agenda
All valid reasons why you don't want certain people to be the nominee Frank. But let's assume for the purpose that the Democratic candidate, whomever it is, will be elected in 2016.

Who do you want that person to be?
Who I want would be Jack Kennedy. Unfortunately, he has no place in today's Democrat Party and would be disparaged as a Teaper by Boehner Republicans

I'd prefer to run against Lizzy "Cheekbones" Warren or Bernie Sander
 

BlackSand

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For my own self I long for the days that there were Democrats in Congress that I truly admired. Tim Penny, Minnesota, for instance was a true patriot and while more liberal than I am, he had his head on straight as to what is best for the country. And he and other Blue Dog Democrats were instrumental in achieving some major reforms during the 1990's. If the Democrats would run somebody like him, I would have to consider voting that way against some Republicans that I just don't want to be President.
I liked Senator Joe Lieberman better than most Democrats and some Republicans ... But I doubt he will be running for President.
He understood how to work across the aisle ... And how to aptly explain his positions without getting messed up in gutter politics.

.
But I believe Lieberman is still registered as Independent since the Democrats screwed him over, and therefore it is almost a certainty he will not be the Democratic candidate.

So if the Democratic candidate will win in 2016 and that candidate is not Hillary, who do you want that candidate to be?
That is like asking if I want my right foot or left foot cut off.
If I had to answer the question ... Two things come to mind.

1. It is a shame Bill Clinton cannot run again ... He was a terrible man, but a halfway decent Democrat President.

2. I wouldn't mind seeing the Democrat Public Service Commissioner in Louisiana, Foster Campbell run for President.
He has had his problems, but is honest about dealing with them ... And does what he says he is going to do.
Most of his policies are actually beneficial and achieve the goals he has set ... He is ambitious in setting standards and goals and pays attention to all his constituents.

But again ... There is little chance Foster Campbell will ever be nominated at the national level.

.
 
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Foxfyre

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For my own self I long for the days that there were Democrats in Congress that I truly admired. Tim Penny, Minnesota, for instance was a true patriot and while more liberal than I am, he had his head on straight as to what is best for the country. And he and other Blue Dog Democrats were instrumental in achieving some major reforms during the 1990's. If the Democrats would run somebody like him, I would have to consider voting that way against some Republicans that I just don't want to be President.
I liked Senator Joe Lieberman better than most Democrats and some Republicans ... But I doubt he will be running for President.
He understood how to work across the aisle ... And how to aptly explain his positions without getting messed up in gutter politics.

.
But I believe Lieberman is still registered as Independent since the Democrats screwed him over, and therefore it is almost a certainty he will not be the Democratic candidate.

So if the Democratic candidate will win in 2016 and that candidate is not Hillary, who do you want that candidate to be?
That is like asking if I want my right foot or left foot cut off.
If I had to answer the question ... Two things come to mind.

1. It is a shame Bill Clinton cannot run again ... He was a terrible man, but a halfway decent Democrat President.

2. I wouldn't mind seeing the Democrat Public Service Commissioner in Louisiana, Foster Campbell run for President.
He has had his problems, but is honest about dealing with them ... And does what he says he is going to do.
Most of his policies are actually beneficial and achieve the goals he has set ... He is ambitious in setting standards and goals and pays attention to all his constituents.

But again ... There is little chance Foster Campbell will ever be nominated at the national level.

.
LOL. I know what you mean, but it still makes for an interesting discussion. To me anyway.

What I am looking at is the recent propensity of the GOP to nominate candidates that just aren't all that appealing to enough of the electorate to get elected. So we have to consider that the crowded GOP field will shoot itself in the foot again and the Democrat, whoever it is, will be elected. Who do we want that Democrat to be?

I agree that Bill Clinton was not a bad president, IMO mostly because he wanted to be loved and admired more than he was committed to a leftwing ideology. So he resisted here and there, but he was eventually mostly willing to accept most of what a reform-minded GOP wanted to do. He also was a competent administrator and had some good people working for him, so his administration definitely did yield some good things.

Okay Foster Campbell is another name I have not been aware of. I'll have to look him up.
 
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Foxfyre

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I've been saying it for almost 2 years now, Hillary is far too right-wing for the Democrat base: she voted for Iraq and has missed the 2 Minute Hate on Free Enterprise. She was on the Board of Walmart ferchristsake!!!

I don't know how you can miss the big push for Lizzy Cheekbones, who is the female Obama, including a shady past of dubious claims, and a pathological liar who will do anything to further the Progressive Agenda
All valid reasons why you don't want certain people to be the nominee Frank. But let's assume for the purpose that the Democratic candidate, whomever it is, will be elected in 2016.

Who do you want that person to be?
Who I want would be Jack Kennedy. Unfortunately, he has no place in today's Democrat Party and would be disparaged as a Teaper by Boehner Republicans

I'd prefer to run against Lizzy "Cheekbones" Warren or Bernie Sander
Kennedy made some serious mistakes, but like Clinton, he was not a bad President. I also would not be dismayed if somebody like him was the Democratic nominee. But, as you point out, he isn't available.

So if we are resigned that a Democrat will be elected in 2016, and that Democrat won't be Hillary, is there anybody available now that you would prefer over all others?

I'm beginning to agree with that Boston Herald writer that the Democrats seem to have no bench at all. If their quarterback Hillary is out of the game, who do you send up?
 

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