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__________________________________further right, man that cracked me up
I've watched over 35 years from them being more moderate with the blue dog dems. to watching them all be kicked out by people like Pelosi, Reid, Hillary, Obama, etc to be what they are today. So far left they are inching towards, Fascism and communist.
After reading the first page of this thread, this is the post I most agree with...and I completely disagree with the O. P. The Democratic Party is sooo far left, I don't think it would admit John F. Kennedy today, and I don't think he would want to join.
But, one thing is remarkable. The O. P. engaged in Political Discourse. He made and explained his points.
You just don't get that from liberals anymore....their philosophy is so bankrupt, it can't be defended without saying flat out "I'm a Socialist" which is why ole Bern is having some success. He's actually honest....and he is up against the most pathological liar out there.
At any rate....I don't agree with a word the O.P. said, but I commend him for undertaking to explain himself...instead of just going with the usual Left-Wing elementary school name-calling.
I am not a liberal nor am I am conservative. I think both parties have ideas that are both constructive and destructive.
Policy over party
Example: single payer healthcare good idea, open borders bad idea
________________________________
You have a right to categorize yourself, and I have right to buy it or not. I think...that if you think...the Democratic Party has moved to the Right...then your view is from way...way...way...out in Left Field.....eating a hot dog with The Bern in Yankee Stadium kind of Left Field.
But, I appreciate the civil discussion...first one I've had in my two years here...with a Liberal without being called a Rube, Racist, or "Hater Dupe" in the very first response. And, I think you are just young, and therefore confused.
You may have heard this before, but to make sure....every young person should hear Winston Churchill's famous assessment...as young as possible:
"If you are not a Liberal when you are 20, you have no Heart; and if you are not a Conservative when you are 40, you have no Brain".
Take note of that every couple of years and see if ole Winston doesn't impress you more as the time goes by. He was half crazy you know....and a Genius...and with the best set of balls of the 20th Century (unless it was Margaret Thatcher who had them.) Churchill fought in the Boer War when he was young...and later said that "the most exhilarating thing in the world is to be shot at without effect."
You are a Liberal son, but with a brain. Read everything Thomas Jefferson ever wrote...all his letters....everything, I mean everything, Mark Twain ever wrote...he and Jefferson are Americas greatest Philosophers so far...and one is also the Soul of the Country...Traditional America anyway--the greatest society thus far established.......read the first chapter of Go Down Moses...read that three times, you will need to, because Faulkner doesn't tell you everything the first time....DO these things and you will be well prepared to get on with a successful life.
_______
further right, man that cracked me up
I've watched over 35 years from them being more moderate with the blue dog dems. to watching them all be kicked out by people like Pelosi, Reid, Hillary, Obama, etc to be what they are today. So far left they are inching towards, Fascism and communist.
I see a lot of forum posts on here about how the democratic party has become more left wing and radical over the years.
Most of these claims are not supported by any evidence. Usually its just partisan hacks making absurd claims.
I have made some of these arguments here but because I am stubborn I will make the case again.
In the U.S. we once had a 2 party system. Unfortunately, The GoP has moved to the extreme right and in the process has pulled the Democratic party to the center right.
Now granted, there are a few liberal politicians but they are on the fringe, politicians like Bernie Sanders and Elizabeth Warren.
The first issue where the Democratic party has moved to the right is healthcare.
The ACA, or as pundits call it Obamacare, was a healthcare policy originally endorsed by 2 prominent Republicans. Bob Dole and Mitt Romney, both presidential Candidates, were vocal advocates of healthcare legislation that we now call Obamacare. In Mass. it was actually passed.
Bob Dole 1996 On The Issues Health Care
There is Bob Dole's official healthcare platform from his 1996 campaign website.
Barack Obama and previously Bill Clinton completely abandoned the liberal position of universal single payer healthcare. Obama even stripped the public option from the ACA.
The second issue where the Democratic party has moved to the right is military.
The liberal foreign policy agenda is usually more pacifist and non interventionist. But, if we look at the past 7 years under Barack Obama he has done multiple things to contradict this.
1. Obama has GREATLY expanded the drone war program that began during the Bush years. We are not conducting military operations in MORE countries (primarily Africa and the Middle East) than under the previous administration.
2. Even though Obama initially withdrew military forces from Iraq he has gradually been sending special operations and other ground forces back into the middle east under the guise of "advisors". This has allowed for troop deployments without having to justify it to the American people.
The third issue where Democrats have been moving to the right is economic policy.
1. Where has the minimum wage increase been from the president? It's still sitting at $7.25 per hour. In fact the last piece of federal legislation was Fair Minimum Wage Act of 2007. If we know our history, it was a Republican president who last raised the minimum wage.
2. Historically, liberals have been opposed to tax dollars funding large corporations and defense contractors. Unfortunately Barack Obama has done the opposite.
The ACA, while being called socialist or government insurance by pundits, has actually been a HUGE
boon to private insurance. Blue Cross and United healthcare have been lining their pockets to the tune of $$ billions since passage of the ACA
Lets not forget Bill Clinton repealed glass stegall
Let's not forget the bailouts to corporate America.
Let's not forget the subsidized loans to companies like Solyndra andTesla.
Lets not forget all the fossil fuel deductions and tax credits under Obama https://www.treasury.gov/open/Documents/USA FFSR progress report to G20 2014 Final.pdf
of course there are more and more examples:
1. extending the bush tax cuts for the rich
2. reauthorization of the USA patriot act
3. Gitmo is still open
4. private prisons still a booming business
etc etc.
So next time someone says the democratic establishment has moved to the left they are clearly full of shit
The democrat party's lurch to the left "is not supported by any evidence"? Are you nuts? Who would have thought that a freaking registered socialist would become a leading presidential candidate in the democrat party fifty years after JFK informed Americans "ask not what your Country can do for you"?
Because they could not even get enough democrats to vote for single payer. They tried and will continue to try, as it is still the goal of the Democratic elites.If JFK ran for office today..........I do believe the left would stone him.
Wow, two Republicans! That means it's a right wing plan? Romneycare is probably what sunk his chance. No Republican voted for the law. You are either lying or clueless beyond measure. The GOP law? You are a full on idiot. obama lied out his ass to get the law passed as it is. single payer is the end game. Grow a brain.You're completely full of it. The arguments are made here everyday and many many other places. Like most libs, if you don't believe it, it doesn't exist. Bob Dole didn't get far with his health plan, I don't see how linking obamacare to it makes a valid point.I see a lot of forum posts on here about how the democratic party has become more left wing and radical over the years.
Most of these claims are not supported by any evidence. Usually its just partisan hacks making absurd claims.
I have made some of these arguments here but because I am stubborn I will make the case again.
In the U.S. we once had a 2 party system. Unfortunately, The GoP has moved to the extreme right and in the process has pulled the Democratic party to the center right.
Now granted, there are a few liberal politicians but they are on the fringe, politicians like Bernie Sanders and Elizabeth Warren.
The first issue where the Democratic party has moved to the right is healthcare.
The ACA, or as pundits call it Obamacare, was a healthcare policy originally endorsed by 2 prominent Republicans. Bob Dole and Mitt Romney, both presidential Candidates, were vocal advocates of healthcare legislation that we now call Obamacare. In Mass. it was actually passed.
Bob Dole 1996 On The Issues Health Care
There is Bob Dole's official healthcare platform from his 1996 campaign website.
Barack Obama and previously Bill Clinton completely abandoned the liberal position of universal single payer healthcare. Obama even stripped the public option from the ACA.
The second issue where the Democratic party has moved to the right is military.
The liberal foreign policy agenda is usually more pacifist and non interventionist. But, if we look at the past 7 years under Barack Obama he has done multiple things to contradict this.
1. Obama has GREATLY expanded the drone war program that began during the Bush years. We are not conducting military operations in MORE countries (primarily Africa and the Middle East) than under the previous administration.
2. Even though Obama initially withdrew military forces from Iraq he has gradually been sending special operations and other ground forces back into the middle east under the guise of "advisors". This has allowed for troop deployments without having to justify it to the American people.
The third issue where Democrats have been moving to the right is economic policy.
1. Where has the minimum wage increase been from the president? It's still sitting at $7.25 per hour. In fact the last piece of federal legislation was Fair Minimum Wage Act of 2007. If we know our history, it was a Republican president who last raised the minimum wage.
2. Historically, liberals have been opposed to tax dollars funding large corporations and defense contractors. Unfortunately Barack Obama has done the opposite.
The ACA, while being called socialist or government insurance by pundits, has actually been a HUGE
boon to private insurance. Blue Cross and United healthcare have been lining their pockets to the tune of $$ billions since passage of the ACA
Lets not forget Bill Clinton repealed glass stegall
Let's not forget the bailouts to corporate America.
Let's not forget the subsidized loans to companies like Solyndra andTesla.
Lets not forget all the fossil fuel deductions and tax credits under Obama https://www.treasury.gov/open/Documents/USA FFSR progress report to G20 2014 Final.pdf
of course there are more and more examples:
1. extending the bush tax cuts for the rich
2. reauthorization of the USA patriot act
3. Gitmo is still open
4. private prisons still a booming business
etc etc.
So next time someone says the democratic establishment has moved to the left they are clearly full of shit
Of course the insurance companies are doing better, they wrote the fucking law! Mandate a service on the federal level and see if it goes up or down. The left has been trying hard but the party of no seems to foil their agenda.
The FACT is you can no longer distinguish between the Democratic party and a socialist. That's moving left, so much so they think we've been moving to the right.
So Obama passed a piece of healthcare legislation that had previously been endorsed by 2 republicans, both of whom ran for president and 1 of whom actually passed the legislation in his state.
Again, the liberal standard is universal single payer which Obama abandoned and instead passed a historically GoP healthcare law
Again, universal single payer would be the liberal policy. instead Obama gave us this awful ACA which was originally the Position of the 1996 republican presidential nominee and then the 2012 republican presidential nominee who had previously passed a similar law in his state.
Why has the democratic establishment abandoned single payer?
Because they could not even get enough democrats to vote for single payer. They tried and will continue to try, as it is still the goal of the Democratic elites.If JFK ran for office today..........I do believe the left would stone him.
Wow, two Republicans! That means it's a right wing plan? Romneycare is probably what sunk his chance. No Republican voted for the law. You are either lying or clueless beyond measure. The GOP law? You are a full on idiot. obama lied out his ass to get the law passed as it is. single payer is the end game. Grow a brain.You're completely full of it. The arguments are made here everyday and many many other places. Like most libs, if you don't believe it, it doesn't exist. Bob Dole didn't get far with his health plan, I don't see how linking obamacare to it makes a valid point.I see a lot of forum posts on here about how the democratic party has become more left wing and radical over the years.
Most of these claims are not supported by any evidence. Usually its just partisan hacks making absurd claims.
I have made some of these arguments here but because I am stubborn I will make the case again.
In the U.S. we once had a 2 party system. Unfortunately, The GoP has moved to the extreme right and in the process has pulled the Democratic party to the center right.
Now granted, there are a few liberal politicians but they are on the fringe, politicians like Bernie Sanders and Elizabeth Warren.
The first issue where the Democratic party has moved to the right is healthcare.
The ACA, or as pundits call it Obamacare, was a healthcare policy originally endorsed by 2 prominent Republicans. Bob Dole and Mitt Romney, both presidential Candidates, were vocal advocates of healthcare legislation that we now call Obamacare. In Mass. it was actually passed.
Bob Dole 1996 On The Issues Health Care
There is Bob Dole's official healthcare platform from his 1996 campaign website.
Barack Obama and previously Bill Clinton completely abandoned the liberal position of universal single payer healthcare. Obama even stripped the public option from the ACA.
The second issue where the Democratic party has moved to the right is military.
The liberal foreign policy agenda is usually more pacifist and non interventionist. But, if we look at the past 7 years under Barack Obama he has done multiple things to contradict this.
1. Obama has GREATLY expanded the drone war program that began during the Bush years. We are not conducting military operations in MORE countries (primarily Africa and the Middle East) than under the previous administration.
2. Even though Obama initially withdrew military forces from Iraq he has gradually been sending special operations and other ground forces back into the middle east under the guise of "advisors". This has allowed for troop deployments without having to justify it to the American people.
The third issue where Democrats have been moving to the right is economic policy.
1. Where has the minimum wage increase been from the president? It's still sitting at $7.25 per hour. In fact the last piece of federal legislation was Fair Minimum Wage Act of 2007. If we know our history, it was a Republican president who last raised the minimum wage.
2. Historically, liberals have been opposed to tax dollars funding large corporations and defense contractors. Unfortunately Barack Obama has done the opposite.
The ACA, while being called socialist or government insurance by pundits, has actually been a HUGE
boon to private insurance. Blue Cross and United healthcare have been lining their pockets to the tune of $$ billions since passage of the ACA
Lets not forget Bill Clinton repealed glass stegall
Let's not forget the bailouts to corporate America.
Let's not forget the subsidized loans to companies like Solyndra andTesla.
Lets not forget all the fossil fuel deductions and tax credits under Obama https://www.treasury.gov/open/Documents/USA FFSR progress report to G20 2014 Final.pdf
of course there are more and more examples:
1. extending the bush tax cuts for the rich
2. reauthorization of the USA patriot act
3. Gitmo is still open
4. private prisons still a booming business
etc etc.
So next time someone says the democratic establishment has moved to the left they are clearly full of shit
Of course the insurance companies are doing better, they wrote the fucking law! Mandate a service on the federal level and see if it goes up or down. The left has been trying hard but the party of no seems to foil their agenda.
The FACT is you can no longer distinguish between the Democratic party and a socialist. That's moving left, so much so they think we've been moving to the right.
So Obama passed a piece of healthcare legislation that had previously been endorsed by 2 republicans, both of whom ran for president and 1 of whom actually passed the legislation in his state.
Again, the liberal standard is universal single payer which Obama abandoned and instead passed a historically GoP healthcare law
Again, universal single payer would be the liberal policy. instead Obama gave us this awful ACA which was originally the Position of the 1996 republican presidential nominee and then the 2012 republican presidential nominee who had previously passed a similar law in his state.
Why has the democratic establishment abandoned single payer?
The conservative position is that the feds need to stay out of healthcare, that it is an individual and a state issue.
Again, the conservative position is that the FEDS need to stay out of healthcare. Please list a republican voted for or endorsed the FEDS takeover of healthcare. Romney was consistent in that some things are for the states and NOT for the feds.Because they could not even get enough democrats to vote for single payer. They tried and will continue to try, as it is still the goal of the Democratic elites.If JFK ran for office today..........I do believe the left would stone him.
Wow, two Republicans! That means it's a right wing plan? Romneycare is probably what sunk his chance. No Republican voted for the law. You are either lying or clueless beyond measure. The GOP law? You are a full on idiot. obama lied out his ass to get the law passed as it is. single payer is the end game. Grow a brain.You're completely full of it. The arguments are made here everyday and many many other places. Like most libs, if you don't believe it, it doesn't exist. Bob Dole didn't get far with his health plan, I don't see how linking obamacare to it makes a valid point.
Of course the insurance companies are doing better, they wrote the fucking law! Mandate a service on the federal level and see if it goes up or down. The left has been trying hard but the party of no seems to foil their agenda.
The FACT is you can no longer distinguish between the Democratic party and a socialist. That's moving left, so much so they think we've been moving to the right.
So Obama passed a piece of healthcare legislation that had previously been endorsed by 2 republicans, both of whom ran for president and 1 of whom actually passed the legislation in his state.
Again, the liberal standard is universal single payer which Obama abandoned and instead passed a historically GoP healthcare law
Again, universal single payer would be the liberal policy. instead Obama gave us this awful ACA which was originally the Position of the 1996 republican presidential nominee and then the 2012 republican presidential nominee who had previously passed a similar law in his state.
Why has the democratic establishment abandoned single payer?
The conservative position is that the feds need to stay out of healthcare, that it is an individual and a state issue.
OK so is it your argument that Bob Dole and mitt Romney were left wing socialists when it comes to healthcare?
And again if single payer is the Democratic position then why is Hillary Clinton running away from single payer in every debage
I honestly never thought I would see people claiming that a healthcare policy that gave unfathomable amounts of money and power to private insurance companies would be called a liberal policy
And again, this is the only point that anyone wants to even argue. So I appreciate that people have conceded all my other points.
In 1996 the GoP nominee for president had a healthcare platform that mirrored the current democratic platform. And you expect me to believe that 20 years ago this candidate, Bob Dole, was a left wing big government socialist? Or is it more plausible that Obama abandoned single payer and adopted a much more center right healthcare position
Again, the conservative position is that the FEDS need to stay out of healthcare. Please list a republican voted for or endorsed the FEDS takeover of healthcare. Romney was consistent in that some things are for the states and NOT for the feds.Because they could not even get enough democrats to vote for single payer. They tried and will continue to try, as it is still the goal of the Democratic elites.If JFK ran for office today..........I do believe the left would stone him.
Wow, two Republicans! That means it's a right wing plan? Romneycare is probably what sunk his chance. No Republican voted for the law. You are either lying or clueless beyond measure. The GOP law? You are a full on idiot. obama lied out his ass to get the law passed as it is. single payer is the end game. Grow a brain.So Obama passed a piece of healthcare legislation that had previously been endorsed by 2 republicans, both of whom ran for president and 1 of whom actually passed the legislation in his state.
Again, the liberal standard is universal single payer which Obama abandoned and instead passed a historically GoP healthcare law
Again, universal single payer would be the liberal policy. instead Obama gave us this awful ACA which was originally the Position of the 1996 republican presidential nominee and then the 2012 republican presidential nominee who had previously passed a similar law in his state.
Why has the democratic establishment abandoned single payer?
The conservative position is that the feds need to stay out of healthcare, that it is an individual and a state issue.
OK so is it your argument that Bob Dole and mitt Romney were left wing socialists when it comes to healthcare?
And again if single payer is the Democratic position then why is Hillary Clinton running away from single payer in every debage
Reagan COMPROMISED regarding immigration: amnesty in exchange for securing the border. Dems got their amnesty but Reagan did not get the secure border he was promised. That's why the screams to secure the border BEFORE discussions about what to do with illegals already here. Lesson learned.
You still have not named a single Democratic president in the last 50 years who is right of JFK.
Romney lost and Dole lost but you continue to use them in your examples; however, you don't want Bernie discussed because you expect him to lose.
Romney does not want the feds involved in healthcare ... never has. Hillary has been advocating the feds fix it from day 1. It was her pet project when FLotUS. She still is promoting federal involvement.
Please name a Democratic president farther right than JFK. BOTH parties have been moving left and continue doing so.
I honestly never thought I would see people claiming that a healthcare policy that gave unfathomable amounts of money and power to private insurance companies would be called a liberal policy
And again, this is the only point that anyone wants to even argue. So I appreciate that people have conceded all my other points.
In 1996 the GoP nominee for president had a healthcare platform that mirrored the current democratic platform. And you expect me to believe that 20 years ago this candidate, Bob Dole, was a left wing big government socialist? Or is it more plausible that Obama abandoned single payer and adopted a much more center right healthcare position
It is 100% on the dems. No repub voted for it, as repubs specifically believe it is NOT for the feds to address, period.
I honestly never thought I would see people claiming that a healthcare policy that gave unfathomable amounts of money and power to private insurance companies would be called a liberal policy
And again, this is the only point that anyone wants to even argue. So I appreciate that people have conceded all my other points.
In 1996 the GoP nominee for president had a healthcare platform that mirrored the current democratic platform. And you expect me to believe that 20 years ago this candidate, Bob Dole, was a left wing big government socialist? Or is it more plausible that Obama abandoned single payer and adopted a much more center right healthcare position
It is 100% on the dems. No repub voted for it, as repubs specifically believe it is NOT for the feds to address, period.
Ok so which healthcare policy is more liberal? Single payer or mandated private insurance?
I honestly never thought I would see people claiming that a healthcare policy that gave unfathomable amounts of money and power to private insurance companies would be called a liberal policy
And again, this is the only point that anyone wants to even argue. So I appreciate that people have conceded all my other points.
In 1996 the GoP nominee for president had a healthcare platform that mirrored the current democratic platform. And you expect me to believe that 20 years ago this candidate, Bob Dole, was a left wing big government socialist? Or is it more plausible that Obama abandoned single payer and adopted a much more center right healthcare position
It is 100% on the dems. No repub voted for it, as repubs specifically believe it is NOT for the feds to address, period.
Ok so which healthcare policy is more liberal? Single payer or mandated private insurance?
Just because liberal's failed to reach their goal does not mean their goal changed.
I live in Louisiana. There is LESS creationism and God in schools now than 50 years ago.
BOTH of those are liberal positions. For the 3rd time, the conservative position is that the feds need to butt out. It has been consistent. The liberal policy is for the feds to control it. Anything in between is a compromise. The parties used to compromise a good bit. That does not mean their position changed. It means they understood that others' positions carry weight, too, and that you have to give to get.
Obama's position on Gitmo has not changed, despite not having enacted his position. Obama's energy policy is liberal, despite gas prices. Do you really not understand that? Do you remember Ford and Carter? Not do you know about them. I mean do you personally remember them?
I honestly never thought I would see people claiming that a healthcare policy that gave unfathomable amounts of money and power to private insurance companies would be called a liberal policy
And again, this is the only point that anyone wants to even argue. So I appreciate that people have conceded all my other points.
In 1996 the GoP nominee for president had a healthcare platform that mirrored the current democratic platform. And you expect me to believe that 20 years ago this candidate, Bob Dole, was a left wing big government socialist? Or is it more plausible that Obama abandoned single payer and adopted a much more center right healthcare position
It is 100% on the dems. No repub voted for it, as repubs specifically believe it is NOT for the feds to address, period.
Ok so which healthcare policy is more liberal? Single payer or mandated private insurance?
Just because liberal's failed to reach their goal does not mean their goal changed.
I live in Louisiana. There is LESS creationism and God in schools now than 50 years ago.
BOTH of those are liberal positions. For the 3rd time, the conservative position is that the feds need to butt out. It has been consistent. The liberal policy is for the feds to control it. Anything in between is a compromise. The parties used to compromise a good bit. That does not mean their position changed. It means they understood that others' positions carry weight, too, and that you have to give to get.
Obama's position on Gitmo has not changed, despite not having enacted his position. Obama's energy policy is liberal, despite gas prices. Do you really not understand that? Do you remember Ford and Carter? Not do you know about them. I mean do you personally remember them?
Moderate is where it should be. Far left and far right beliefs have no place in politics. They are sacked crazy folk.
The GOP didn't/doesn't play a role in the current tax rate? Look, it's obvious at this point your brain is too damaged to think, your repeated bleatings are purile and silly. Nothing more.Aside from the list of Obama policy positions that have been in line with GoP policy for the last few decades that I listed, and even tax rates are lower today than under kennedy.
The GOP didn't/doesn't play a role in the current tax rate? Look, it's obvious at this point your brain is too damaged to think, your repeated bleatings are purile and silly. Nothing more.Aside from the list of Obama policy positions that have been in line with GoP policy for the last few decades that I listed, and even tax rates are lower today than under kennedy.
