Democratic Socialism/Communism is the only solution to advanced automation & artificial intelligence.

[Vastator]

Another commie pipe dreaming...

 

[WinterBorn]

Another commie pipe dreaming...

I am no commie. I have done well in our capitalist society.

But the facts say there will be a change.

The population is growing. More and more people are entering the workforce.

The number of jobs, if growing at all, is growing incrementally.

There will be a point in which there are hundreds of thousands of people without work. We will either come up with a way to feed and house them, or there will be a bloody revolution.

 

[Votto]

That's a baby-brained, comatose comment. Do you realize how stupid you sound saying that? If anything, capitalism creates slaves, not socialism. Socialism places everything in the hands of the public, whereas capitalism privatizes everything in the hands of a few capitalist multi-millionaires and billionaires.

Capitalism is a system of human exploitation, where one small parasitical group of people who own everything (under the protection of the government) refuse to work, hence they hire others to work for them, for a wage (that is always worth less than what the worker is producing), to make a profit.

Without wages, the capitalist boss/fief lord doesn't have any customers, hence wages and profits are two sides of the same coin. You can't have one without the other.

View attachment 975157
​

Why would you, a working-class person support your capitalist masters, who are exploiting and reducing you, to a mere commodity in a "labor market"? You're dehumanized, into a product to be purchased by a capitalist master, in a labor market and exploited like a machine. You own nothing of what you produce and are placed in an adversarial position against your fellow workers, who are competing for the same job (until workers wake up and unite, forming a labor union).

Adam Smith the father of capitalism identifies capitalists as masters:

What are the common wages of labour, depends every where upon the contract usually made between those two parties, whose interests are by no means the same. The workmen desire to get as much, the masters to give as little as possible. The former are disposed to combine in order to raise, the latter in order to lower the wages of labour.

It is not, however, difficult to foresee which of the two parties must, upon all ordinary occasions, have the advantage in the dispute, and force the other into a compliance with their terms. The masters, being fewer in number, can combine much more easily; and the law, besides, authorizes, or at least does not prohibit their combinations, while it prohibits those of the workmen. ( Wealth Of Nations - Book I, Chapter VIII)

Why do you defend your wage slavery? Because your capitalist employer/exploiter masters have brainwashed you. You drank the capitalist Kool-Aid.

​

Marxism murdered hundreds of millions more than any other ideology in human history.

You are a carbon producer, as such, your life represents a source of pollution to the elites, and you are eating up all their precious natural resources to boot.

Idiot.

 

[Votto]

I am no commie. I have done well in our capitalist society.

But the facts say there will be a change.

The population is growing. More and more people are entering the workforce.

The number of jobs, if growing at all, is growing incrementally.

There will be a point in which there are hundreds of thousands of people without work. We will either come up with a way to feed and house them, or there will be a bloody revolution.

Democrats, they put more people out of work than any other party in human history and are damned proud of it.

 

[Vastator]

There will be a point in which there are hundreds of thousands of people without work. We will either come up with a way to feed and house them, or there will be a bloody revolution.

People have ways of dealing with "useless eaters". Anyone who thinks the future holds some idyllic shangri-la, where they'll be fed, and housed for nothing; is naieve at best...

 

[GWV5903]

You're delusional if you think artificial intelligence and advanced automation aren't going to replace most jobs. Even pro-capitalist experts admit to this, so you're just in denial. You're suffering from a bad case of cognitive dissonance.

You’re the delusional one, Capitalism isn’t going anywhere. Your utopian wet dream will crash and burn, dreaming is okay, your fantasy of an automated economy will never work.

 

[Votto]

You’re the delusional one, Capitalism isn’t going anywhere. Your utopian wet dream will crash and burn, dreaming is okay, your fantasy of an automated economy will never work.

There will always be a wealth gap, it's just that democrats tend to favor policies where more and more people are impoverished with less and less super rich folk that herd around all the poor folk.

 

[Votto]

It's obvious that the only true solution to the inevitable replacement of human wage-labor by advanced automation and artificial intelligence, is a marketless, non-profit, publicly owned, more democratic, centrally planned system of mass production, a.k.a. socialism. The billionaires see the writing on the wall:

​

No wage labor (or not enough of it) = No Paying Consumers (or not enough customers) = No Market (or not a large enough market worth investing in) = No Profits (not enough ROI) = No Capitalism (No Capitalists Making A Profit) = Socialism (non-profit, marketless production that doesn't rely on wages being paid to a labor force, that purchases products and services in a market).

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When production is fully or mostly automated, there's no more need for wage-labor or markets. Socialism is the natural, inevitable successor of capitalism, just as capitalism was the successor of feudalism.

Americans due to decades of Cold War anti-socialist, capitalist propaganda, and brainwashing, are unable to accept this self-evident fact. It's mostly Americans over 50 years old, who have trouble coming to terms with this, not the younger generation. The Millenials are much more open to socialism and the Zoomers are the most socialist generation in American history.

The transition to a non-profit system of production is going to be much smoother in the near future, as boomers retire and the younger generation takes the helm.

‘We have reached the end of our rope.’ Why farmers around the world are protesting

From quiet fields to busy city streets, farmers around the world have launched protests in recent weeks, demanding relief from what they say is a crisis driven by climate change policies, red tape and crop prices. Ali Rogin reports.

www.pbs.org

Governments around the world are making the lives of farmers a living hell, mostly with their climate policies that restrict the use of fertilizer because it emits carbon.

So, as governments around the world are mandating less food to be produced worldwide, which drives up inflation for poor folk, billions will starve to death next year.

It's what you call a kinder gentler genocide, one without firing squads and gas chambers

Think of the reduction of carbon footprints so the elites can save the world.

Yay!

Do you not care or are you just ignorant?

Which one?

 

[GWV5903]

But the facts say there will be a change.

Change is inevitable, always the case. That doesn’t necessitate robots will take over the entire workforce

The population is growing. More and more people are entering the workforce.

And more people require more work, that will never change

The number of jobs, if growing at all, is growing incrementally.

See above ^^^^^

There will be a point in which there are hundreds of thousands of people without work.

You are not paying attention, our workforce today is depleted, unemployment is historically low, we have let bureaucracy ruin the law of supply and demand. You have to get out of the way, our Capitalist system is the best in the history of the world.

We will either come up with a way to feed and house them, or there will be a bloody revolution.

If you continue down this road of delusional thinking there will be a very bloody revolution

 

[shockedcanadian]

Gobbledygook. That's all you have? Gebbirish? Never in history has production been automated by intelligent, autonomous systems as today. Machinery in general, has always needed a human operator. With the advancement of cybernetics in the 1970s, there was an unprecedented loss of office workers. An administrative department in the 1940s and 50s, looked like a factory, full of workers, typing and filing records, copying documents by hand on typewriters. All of that changed with computers and Xerox.

With the further development of autonomous, intelligent systems, it's self-evident even to big-money capitalists like Musk and others, that the only way for capitalism to survive is through a massive government intervention i.e. bailout, in the form of a UBI (Universal Basic Income) or even a UI/UHI (Universal High Income), paid monthly by the government.

You can pretend if it makes you feel better, that advanced automation and AI replacing most if not all of wage labor isn't going to force society to adopt a non-profit system of production, but anyone able to think rationally will come to terms with the truth. Advanced automation and artificial intelligence is the end of capitalism and the beginning of the socialist age. Hopefully the transition between both economic systems will be bloodless, without violence.

So you're scared, that's your thesis?

It could have been stated in one sentence.

 

[TruthNotBS]

So you're scared, that's your thesis?

It could have been stated in one sentence.

That's your moronic assumption, not my thesis, but yours. The solution to the elimination of wage labor by advanced, 21st-century automation and AI, is high-tech, marketless socialism.

 

[shockedcanadian]

That's your moronic assumption, not my thesis, but yours. The solution to the elimination of wage labor by advanced, 21st-century automation and AI, is high-tech, marketless socialism.

Again, the point I made which you mocked mercilessly is that this is the precise same opinion by many when the Industrial Age hit. How about internet? Video game systems were hacked, the music industry was impacted by Napster etc. These are exponentially more dangerous to industries and workers than A.I is at the moment.

In time, A.I will replace many workers. Workers will still be needed and there will always be some industries who will hire outside of A.I.

Once full bodied human replicas and A.I become available, well, we will have to adjust to make programming and improving A.I as part of the human corpus of education

 

[TruthNotBS]

Change is inevitable, always the case. That doesn’t necessitate robots will take over the entire workforce

And more people require more work, that will never change

See above ^^^^^

You are not paying attention, our workforce today is depleted, unemployment is historically low, we have let bureaucracy ruin the law of supply and demand. You have to get out of the way, our Capitalist system is the best in the history of the world.

If you continue down this road of delusional thinking there will be a very bloody revolution

Not only are socialists aware that socialism is the only solution to the elimination of wage labor by advanced automation and AI, but most billionaires and economic experts recognize that the only way for capitalist markets to continue functioning is through a massive government intervention that bails out the capitalists by generating an artificial, unproductive customer base of monthly welfare recipients.

The government will essentially hand out checks to the American public, hoping to preserve the capitalist market.

That's socialism extending the life of capitalism for a few more decades. The UBI and UI are capitalism on life-support, connected to a respirator, in the ICU.

​

Your ignorant poop-heads, continue to accuse socialists of wanting a "nanny state" when ironically, it's the capitalists who are most dependent upon the so-called "nanny state". The big-money capitalists are the biggest free-loader parasites in society:

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RANK	PARENT	SUBSIDY VALUE	NUMBER OF AWARDS
1	Boeing	$15,496,865,703	958
2	Intel	$8,421,707,656	135
3	Ford Motor	$7,742,056,086	703
4	General Motors	$7,524,714,800	792
5	Micron Technology	$6,790,131,915	21
6	Amazon.com	$5,823,705,434	460
7	Alcoa	$5,727,691,764	134
8	Cheniere Energy	$5,617,152,523	43
9	Foxconn Technology Group (Hon Hai Precision Industry Company)	$4,820,110,112	74
10	Venture Global LNG	$4,338,702,441	8
11	Texas Instruments	$4,286,328,869	69
12	Volkswagen	$3,977,630,513	217
13	Sempra Energy	$3,828,022,782	51
14	NRG Energy	$3,415,751,518	266
15	NextEra Energy	$3,008,691,129	116
16	Sasol	$2,836,049,845	72
17	Tesla Inc.	$2,829,855,494	114
18	Stellantis	$2,795,436,436	213
19	Walt Disney	$2,543,219,673	265
20	Nucor	$2,538,761,123	176
21	Iberdrola	$2,380,558,984	110
22	Rivian Automotive Inc.	$2,364,054,012	7
23	Hyundai Motor	$2,349,743,470	18
24	Oracle	$2,272,418,288	96
25	Shell PLC	$2,211,676,001	132
26	Mubadala Investment Company	$2,124,035,097	62
27	Nike	$2,104,917,829	153
28	Meta Platforms Inc.	$2,098,261,272	82
29	Toyota	$2,071,010,689	239
30	Alphabet Inc.	$2,054,325,527	125
31	Brookfield Corporation	$1,979,408,388	288
32	Paramount Global	$1,974,249,897	342
33	Comcast	$1,927,402,844	405
34	Exxon Mobil	$1,917,119,478	241
35	Samsung Electronics	$1,891,136,597	41
36	Apple Inc.	$1,845,004,670	63
37	Nissan	$1,842,814,165	98
38	Berkshire Hathaway	$1,830,986,253	1,200
39	Summit Power	$1,783,593,414	6
40	JPMorgan Chase	$1,740,972,699	1,151
41	Energy Transfer	$1,736,836,843	175
42	Cleveland-Cliffs	$1,705,497,604	129
43	Southern Company	$1,694,958,172	45
44	General Electric	$1,645,135,367	958
45	Vornado Realty Trust	$1,623,857,336	33
46	Duke Energy	$1,580,421,869	86
47	Wolfspeed Inc.	$1,563,595,610	64
48	General Atomics	$1,510,875,891	112
49	IBM Corp.	$1,497,901,697	368
50	Lockheed Martin	$1,462,674,082	325
51	OGE Energy	$1,427,570,182	15
52	SCS Energy	$1,419,011,796	5
53	Corning Inc.	$1,391,603,359	401
54	Panasonic	$1,384,147,584	61
55	Microsoft	$1,366,243,159	113
56	Sagamore Development	$1,320,000,000	2
57	Northrop Grumman	$1,284,014,883	285
58	Vingroup	$1,254,000,000	1
59	Continental AG	$1,244,875,478	111
60	RTX Corporation	$1,193,950,954	797
61	CF Industries	$1,134,394,215	131
62	Valero Energy	$1,053,812,692	207
63	Dow Inc.	$1,049,354,213	640
64	AES Corp.	$1,039,510,135	136
65	Air Products & Chemicals	$1,025,557,482	88
66	Exelon	$986,892,877	98
67	Pyramid Companies	$973,565,278	93
68	SK Holdings	$960,550,283	8
69	SkyWest	$944,296,654	339
70	Centene	$916,607,054	60
71	Mazda Toyota Manufacturing, U.S.A., Inc.	$900,000,000	1
72	Apollo Global Management	$897,750,089	594
73	Delta Air Lines	$871,485,833	13
74	Jefferies Financial Group	$871,137,335	16
75	SK Hynix	$866,700,000	2
76	Bayer	$852,475,226	217
77	Honda	$849,832,301	93
78	Shin-Etsu Chemical	$828,683,936	106
79	Enterprise Products Partners	$826,988,371	89
80	SunEdison	$817,425,725	115
81	Goldman Sachs	$800,873,386	253
82	Bank of America	$798,426,128	956
83	E.ON	$786,865,473	40
84	Warner Bros. Discovery Inc.	$786,835,708	219
85	EDF-Electricite de France	$774,590,441	36
86	Triple Five Worldwide	$748,000,000	4
87	EDP-Energias de Portugal	$733,674,868	14
88	Related Companies	$714,675,504	8
89	Koch Industries	$683,066,388	510
90	Caithness Energy	$672,688,888	30
91	Dell Technologies	$658,417,951	185
92	Wells Fargo	$657,333,216	542
93	FedEx	$647,035,546	633
94	Entergy	$638,533,387	235
95	OCI N.V.	$627,879,406	5
96	Eli Lilly	$623,326,368	79
97	Chevron Phillips Chemical	$619,839,444	20
98	Bedrock Detroit	$618,000,000	1
99	Dominion Energy	$615,436,089	79

Download results as CSV or XML or Save your search (Click here for information on download subscriptions)

 

[TruthNotBS]

Marxism murdered hundreds of millions more than any other ideology in human history.

You are a carbon producer, as such, your life represents a source of pollution to the elites, and you are eating up all their precious natural resources to boot.

Idiot.

You're a moron for appealing to old, pathetic, Cold War capitalist propaganda, death-toll arguments as if that somehow invalidates socialism. As a capitalist boot-licker, you have no moral high ground upon which to stand and point your crooked, feculent finger at socialists, being that capitalism has its own mountain of dead rotting corpses under its filthy, stinky feet.

 

[Vastator]

Not only are socialists aware that socialism is the only solution to the elimination of wage labor by advanced automation and AI, but most billionaires and economic experts recognize that the only way for capitalist markets to continue functioning is through a massive government intervention that bails out the capitalists by generating an artificial, unproductive customer base of monthly welfare recipients.

The government will essentially hand out checks to the American public, hoping to preserve the capitalist market.

That's socialism extending the life of capitalism for a few more decades. The UBI and UI are capitalism on life-support, connected to a respirator, in the ICU.

View attachment 975257​

Your ignorant poop-heads, continue to accuse socialists of wanting a "nanny state" when ironically, it's the capitalists who are most dependent upon the so-called "nanny state". The big-money capitalists are the biggest free-loader parasites in society:

Download results as CSV or XML or Save your search (Click here for information on download subscriptions)

RANK	PARENT	SUBSIDY VALUE	NUMBER OF AWARDS
1	Boeing	$15,496,865,703	958
2	Intel	$8,421,707,656	135
3	Ford Motor	$7,742,056,086	703
4	General Motors	$7,524,714,800	792
5	Micron Technology	$6,790,131,915	21
6	Amazon.com	$5,823,705,434	460
7	Alcoa	$5,727,691,764	134
8	Cheniere Energy	$5,617,152,523	43
9	Foxconn Technology Group (Hon Hai Precision Industry Company)	$4,820,110,112	74
10	Venture Global LNG	$4,338,702,441	8
11	Texas Instruments	$4,286,328,869	69
12	Volkswagen	$3,977,630,513	217
13	Sempra Energy	$3,828,022,782	51
14	NRG Energy	$3,415,751,518	266
15	NextEra Energy	$3,008,691,129	116
16	Sasol	$2,836,049,845	72
17	Tesla Inc.	$2,829,855,494	114
18	Stellantis	$2,795,436,436	213
19	Walt Disney	$2,543,219,673	265
20	Nucor	$2,538,761,123	176
21	Iberdrola	$2,380,558,984	110
22	Rivian Automotive Inc.	$2,364,054,012	7
23	Hyundai Motor	$2,349,743,470	18
24	Oracle	$2,272,418,288	96
25	Shell PLC	$2,211,676,001	132
26	Mubadala Investment Company	$2,124,035,097	62
27	Nike	$2,104,917,829	153
28	Meta Platforms Inc.	$2,098,261,272	82
29	Toyota	$2,071,010,689	239
30	Alphabet Inc.	$2,054,325,527	125
31	Brookfield Corporation	$1,979,408,388	288
32	Paramount Global	$1,974,249,897	342
33	Comcast	$1,927,402,844	405
34	Exxon Mobil	$1,917,119,478	241
35	Samsung Electronics	$1,891,136,597	41
36	Apple Inc.	$1,845,004,670	63
37	Nissan	$1,842,814,165	98
38	Berkshire Hathaway	$1,830,986,253	1,200
39	Summit Power	$1,783,593,414	6
40	JPMorgan Chase	$1,740,972,699	1,151
41	Energy Transfer	$1,736,836,843	175
42	Cleveland-Cliffs	$1,705,497,604	129
43	Southern Company	$1,694,958,172	45
44	General Electric	$1,645,135,367	958
45	Vornado Realty Trust	$1,623,857,336	33
46	Duke Energy	$1,580,421,869	86
47	Wolfspeed Inc.	$1,563,595,610	64
48	General Atomics	$1,510,875,891	112
49	IBM Corp.	$1,497,901,697	368
50	Lockheed Martin	$1,462,674,082	325
51	OGE Energy	$1,427,570,182	15
52	SCS Energy	$1,419,011,796	5
53	Corning Inc.	$1,391,603,359	401
54	Panasonic	$1,384,147,584	61
55	Microsoft	$1,366,243,159	113
56	Sagamore Development	$1,320,000,000	2
57	Northrop Grumman	$1,284,014,883	285
58	Vingroup	$1,254,000,000	1
59	Continental AG	$1,244,875,478	111
60	RTX Corporation	$1,193,950,954	797
61	CF Industries	$1,134,394,215	131
62	Valero Energy	$1,053,812,692	207
63	Dow Inc.	$1,049,354,213	640
64	AES Corp.	$1,039,510,135	136
65	Air Products & Chemicals	$1,025,557,482	88
66	Exelon	$986,892,877	98
67	Pyramid Companies	$973,565,278	93
68	SK Holdings	$960,550,283	8
69	SkyWest	$944,296,654	339
70	Centene	$916,607,054	60
71	Mazda Toyota Manufacturing, U.S.A., Inc.	$900,000,000	1
72	Apollo Global Management	$897,750,089	594
73	Delta Air Lines	$871,485,833	13
74	Jefferies Financial Group	$871,137,335	16
75	SK Hynix	$866,700,000	2
76	Bayer	$852,475,226	217
77	Honda	$849,832,301	93
78	Shin-Etsu Chemical	$828,683,936	106
79	Enterprise Products Partners	$826,988,371	89
80	SunEdison	$817,425,725	115
81	Goldman Sachs	$800,873,386	253
82	Bank of America	$798,426,128	956
83	E.ON	$786,865,473	40
84	Warner Bros. Discovery Inc.	$786,835,708	219
85	EDF-Electricite de France	$774,590,441	36
86	Triple Five Worldwide	$748,000,000	4
87	EDP-Energias de Portugal	$733,674,868	14
88	Related Companies	$714,675,504	8
89	Koch Industries	$683,066,388	510
90	Caithness Energy	$672,688,888	30
91	Dell Technologies	$658,417,951	185
92	Wells Fargo	$657,333,216	542
93	FedEx	$647,035,546	633
94	Entergy	$638,533,387	235
95	OCI N.V.	$627,879,406	5
96	Eli Lilly	$623,326,368	79
97	Chevron Phillips Chemical	$619,839,444	20
98	Bedrock Detroit	$618,000,000	1
99	Dominion Energy	$615,436,089	79

Download results as CSV or XML or Save your search (Click here for information on download subscriptions)

Most companies get bail outs, and subsidies because they offer value. Lazy do nothings who offer jack shit aren't going to be getting UBI so they can sit home playing Xbox. The only folks who promote the "inevitability" of this socialist utopia are the lazy ones who know that they ultimately aren't going to amount to shit, in a competitive world.

 

[Vastator]

You're a moron for appealing to old, pathetic, Cold War capitalist propaganda, death-toll arguments as if that somehow invalidates socialism. As a capitalist boot-licker, you have no moral high ground upon which to stand and point your crooked, feculent finger at socialists, being that capitalism has its own mountain of dead rotting corpses under its filthy, stinky feet.

Yeah. Sure. Pay no attention to the mass graves. It's still a pretty good idea...

 

[TruthNotBS]

I am no commie. I have done well in our capitalist society.

But the facts say there will be a change.

The population is growing. More and more people are entering the workforce.

The number of jobs, if growing at all, is growing incrementally.

There will be a point in which there are hundreds of thousands of people without work. We will either come up with a way to feed and house them, or there will be a bloody revolution.

Advanced technology will take tens of millions of jobs. It will force us, by necessity, not necessarily through a violent, bloody revolution, to adopt a non-profit, marketless production system. We might not call it "socialism", due to our American culture, and history, but it will be essentially socialism in principle and practice.

 

[TruthNotBS]

Most companies get bail outs, and subsidies because they offer value. Lazy do nothings who offer jack shit aren't going to be getting UBI so they can sit home playing Xbox. The only folks who promote the "inevitability" of this socialist utopia are the lazy ones who know that they ultimately aren't going to amount to shit, in a competitive world.

You're a brainwashed, working-class shithead, defending the capitalist parasites who exploit and enslave you. It's the working class, that deserves the government services and resources, not the wealthy, capitalist parasites who live off of their labor. Your mind is so warped and skewed, that you just don't see the irony of your criticism. The working-class are the ones who actually create value with their labor.

​

Advanced automation and artificial intelligence is going to eliminate most wages, within the next twenty years and when that happens, that's the end of capitalism, unless the government intervenes and provides everyone a UBI or UI. Without wages, there's no paying consumer. I'm against the UBI and UI because I see it as a ploy to unnecessarily extend capitalism, when it should be dead and buried in the cemetery, along with feudalism.

Socialism is inevitable because it doesn't need wages, paying consumers, or markets. It's the successor of capitalism, just as capitalism was the successor of feudalism.

 

[Vastator]

You're a brainwashed, working-class shithead, defending the capitalist parasites who exploit and enslave you. It's the working class, that deserves the government services and resources, not the wealthy, capitalist parasites who live off of their labor. Your mind is so warped and skewed, that you just don't see the irony of your criticism. The working-class are the ones who actually create value with their labor.

View attachment 975266​

Advanced automation and artificial intelligence is going to eliminate most wages, within the next twenty years and when that happens, that's the end of capitalism, unless the government intervenes and provides everyone a UBI or UI. Without wages, there's no paying consumer. I'm against the UBI and UI because I see it as a ploy to unnecessarily extend capitalism, when it should be dead and buried in the cemetery, along with feudalism.

Socialism is inevitable because it doesn't need wages, paying consumers, or markets. It's the successor of capitalism, just as capitalism was the successor of feudalism.

Try business owner, and landlord.

 

[TruthNotBS]

Yeah. Sure. Pay no attention to the mass graves. It's still a pretty good idea...

Class warfare is bloody. All you have are silly Cold War death toll arguments, in your stupid attempt to invalidate socialism. Capitalism enslaved, colonized, and slaughtered a lot more people than communism, but that's irrelevant. This thread is about economics, not the history of war or imperialism. All you disingenuous shitheads have are old, worn-out Cold War capitalist propaganda. Here is what CIA operatives have to say about that:

​

CIA agents admitted they fabricated a lot of stories against communists during the Cold War. That's all you're parroting like a mindless turd.

Grover Furr, a Western scholar of the Soviet Union and Communist history, who unlike most Western academics who write about the Soviet Union and Communism, is fluent in Russian and had access to the Soviet archives in Moscow, completely debunks all of your bullshit propaganda against communism.

​