Democrat Rep on CNN: We don't want Small Businesses

[Bobob]

Depends on the job at hand. Maybe a driver or delivery person at $10 dollars an hour. If they stick it out and are good with customers and show up for work, a raise is in order after a while and maybe training for a skilled job.

And if their boss just doesn't feel like giving them a raise?

Fuck em huh?

Do you pay people more if they show up on time and are good? How many times have you had your hair cut, and said you know... you are always on time, and you are pleasant to me.... So I'll pay you an extra $20.

How many times have you done that? Zero? Never? Why do you expect other people to behave in a way that you yourself do not?

If an employee is worth more than how much they are being paid.... either ask your boss for a raise, or find another job.

Because if you are in fact worth more money, then you should be able to find another job that pays more.

If you can't find a job that pays more, then you are not worth more. And yes you should be happy with the wage you are getting.

And by the way, I'm not advocating anything I have not lived out myself. I have quit jobs that I thought I was underpaid, and I got better jobs that paid more. Not advocating anything I have not done myself.

As the owner of a business, I hire people to do a specific job. If they do the job to the satisfaction of the manager in charge, that person will probably get a raise after a period of time. The haircut person would get an increase from the business that he/she works for, not me.

Right, but that is because most businesses hire people at a wage lower than how much they can afford to pay... usually specifically because you have no idea how that employee is going turn out.

New people can be a huge drag on the business. Now hopefully they are not, and you decide you want to keep them. And when you decide you want to keep them, you raise their pay to how much you can afford to pay for that position.

Now once you reach that wage you can afford for that position... are you going to pay them more, because they popped out 5 kids, and now they are below the federal poverty line? Yes or no?

No, because it is not my responsibility they didn't keep their popper in the holster.
However, if they have been with me for a long time, I may be more lenient if they need time off for emergencies. I have had people who worked for my organization for 20 years, and I would meet them for a drink after hours.

 

[Slade3200]

llegal aliens work for less than minimum wage. Make them legal, force employers to pay them MW and RAISE the MW and the downward pressure on wages go away.

Importing millions of low-skilled illegal aliens, making them legal and hiking the minimum wage is not going to increase the demand for low-skilled native born US citizen workers.

Who determines the value an employee adds?

Math.

OK. Show your work

If you take $10 of input and turn it into an $18 product in 1 hour, you created $8 of value/hour.

The fact is that these immigrants do the work that American workers are too lazy to do, and $15 isn't going to change that. My view is that $15 is too high a wage for the kind of work that they do because that basic wage is a learning wage only.

What kind of work are you talking about? And what are they learning? Can you give a couple examples?

Farmhands, landscaping, clean-up, etc.

You think picking veggies in a field all day is a learning task? Or digging trenches or cleaning bathroom floors?! What exactly are they learning? And if somebody spends 40 hours a week 50 weeks a year doing those jobs do you really think they deserve to make less than $15,000 a year ?! Really think about that

Yes, I think everybody deserves more. It isn't only $15000. It also benefits that need to be added to the mix and then it becomes a matter of affordability.

Ok $15k and benefits. You good with that for full time work? The jobs you listed aren’t learning jobs btw, they are straight up hard labor

Unskilled labor, and yes it can be hard. A job like that pays less than skilled labor jobs. If you are a business owner, you will look at things a little differently when it is your money and you own the overhead. Trust me. It is very difficult for someone who has never had to meet payroll to understand the nature of business.

I’ve ran my own businesses did the past 15 years. I understand the nature of business. I could never stomach utilizing 40 hours a week 50 weeks a year of somebody’s time and only paying them $15k. I don’t care what job they were doing

If an employee wasn't making you money, what would you do?

.

Is it the employees job to make me money?

Unless it’s Socialism then yes.

How much money does a janitor make for a school?

A lot less than a teacher who'd have to do the cleaning if he wasn't there. It's called value added. I thought you own a business, you don't seem to know much about running one.

.

I asked a simple question... how much money does a janitor make for a school?

You didn't say what kind of school.

.

You choose

My view is that you don't start unskilled labor at $15. As they assimilate, raises should and would follow and possibly exceed $15 per hour if you want to keep them as your employee and they are doing a good job. They also might be promoted based on their job performance.

What do you want to start unskilled labor at? What wage sounds fair for full time work?

Depends on the job at hand. Maybe a driver or delivery person at $10 dollars an hour. If they stick it out and are good with customers and show up for work, a raise is in order after a while and maybe training for a skilled job.

Ok that’s a fair statement. Do you think $7.25 is reasonable for full time work as a driver/delivery person?

I don't think that I could keep any help at $7.25, although I think it is reasonable when benefits are added.

I too wouldn’t feel right about paying somebody that little for full time work. Maybe if I was also giving them room and board or some other benefits like you mentioned

 

[Slade3200]

llegal aliens work for less than minimum wage. Make them legal, force employers to pay them MW and RAISE the MW and the downward pressure on wages go away.

Importing millions of low-skilled illegal aliens, making them legal and hiking the minimum wage is not going to increase the demand for low-skilled native born US citizen workers.

Who determines the value an employee adds?

Math.

OK. Show your work

If you take $10 of input and turn it into an $18 product in 1 hour, you created $8 of value/hour.

The fact is that these immigrants do the work that American workers are too lazy to do, and $15 isn't going to change that. My view is that $15 is too high a wage for the kind of work that they do because that basic wage is a learning wage only.

What kind of work are you talking about? And what are they learning? Can you give a couple examples?

Farmhands, landscaping, clean-up, etc.

You think picking veggies in a field all day is a learning task? Or digging trenches or cleaning bathroom floors?! What exactly are they learning? And if somebody spends 40 hours a week 50 weeks a year doing those jobs do you really think they deserve to make less than $15,000 a year ?! Really think about that

Yes, I think everybody deserves more. It isn't only $15000. It also benefits that need to be added to the mix and then it becomes a matter of affordability.

Ok $15k and benefits. You good with that for full time work? The jobs you listed aren’t learning jobs btw, they are straight up hard labor

Unskilled labor, and yes it can be hard. A job like that pays less than skilled labor jobs. If you are a business owner, you will look at things a little differently when it is your money and you own the overhead. Trust me. It is very difficult for someone who has never had to meet payroll to understand the nature of business.

I’ve ran my own businesses did the past 15 years. I understand the nature of business. I could never stomach utilizing 40 hours a week 50 weeks a year of somebody’s time and only paying them $15k. I don’t care what job they were doing

If an employee wasn't making you money, what would you do?

.

Is it the employees job to make me money?

Unless it’s Socialism then yes.

How much money does a janitor make for a school?

A lot less than a teacher who'd have to do the cleaning if he wasn't there. It's called value added. I thought you own a business, you don't seem to know much about running one.

.

I asked a simple question... how much money does a janitor make for a school?

You didn't say what kind of school.

.

You choose

Since most schools are not profit making businesses it's irrelevant to the conversation. No one is there to make money for the school. Any more deflections?

.

Haha, these aren’t deflections these are examples of low wage jobs that aren’t directly related to making money for a business. You’ve been trying to make the point that an employee is only worth what they can bring in. I’m showing you thats BS. Get it now?

A public school is not a business, moron. Any more deflections?

Did I say public school? Let’s call it a private school, that’s a business right? They have janitors? So do office buildings and hospitals and many other businesses, right?. Are you that retarded that you don’t get the point, you need to play little word games?! Come in Bri step it up

I apologize for jump in the middle here....

In a private free market capitalist company, every single employee produces a profit for the benefit of the company, either directly, or indirectly.

If someone does not produce value to the company, then they usually are not employed.

So I worked at a small manufacturing company. Like with all smaller companies, the sales are rarely consistent.

Sales were low, and we had a small crew of people, and cleaning the floors, emptying trash cans, and cleaning the bathrooms and such, were all done by the regular crew.

Well a huge massive order came in, and we had the place packed. Pretty soon, the place was filthy. We hired on a person to go around and empty the trash, and clean the floors, and the bathrooms, and other janitorial duties.

After two years, the sales went back down to the previous low level, and we laid the janitor off, along with the rest of the unneeded crew, and people just went back to emptying their own trash, mopping the floors, and cleaning the bathrooms.

The purpose of a janitorial staff, is to free up other productive people, to produce value to the company.

The cleaning staff may not directly bring in value to the company, obviously the janitor doesn't have a revenue stream from 'emptied trash cans', but it does bring in money indirectly because now I can spend more time producing a product, because I don't have to spend time emptying the trash cans.

If there was no monetary value to having someone empty trash cans... then they would not pay someone to do it.

Every employee brings value to the company, directly or indirectly.

I agree, every employee brings value to a company, both directly and indirectly. I wasn’t saying janitors don’t bring value I was showing the indirect aspect of it which isn’t directly measurable

 

[Slade3200]

In which state does making $15,000 a year keep a person above the poverty line?

Who said it needs to do that?
Less than 2% of workers make minimum wage and about half of them are 25 and under.

Why should businesses pay full time employees wages that keeps them above the poverty line?! How about so the tax payers don’t need to pay full time workers welfare to keep them afloat despite the fact they are fully employed. That may be a point you agree with

Why should businesses pay full time employees wages that keeps them above the poverty line?!

Exactly.

If you produce $10/hour in value, what should your wages be?

so the tax payers don’t need to pay full time workers welfare to keep them afloat

Would the taxpayer funded welfare be higher or lower without the job?

It’s up to the business owner to run their business to produce adequate value to pay their employees, just as it’s up to them to meet regulations and codes for the states and industries they do business in. A persons time is worth more than poverty. If you work for yourself and you produce $10 an hour of value then that’s what you will get and you likely won’t make it. But if you are going to employee people then you have a responsibility to those employees

It’s up to the business owner to run their business to produce adequate value to pay their employees,

Some employees just aren't very productive.

A persons time is worth more than poverty.

Usually, not always.

Can you give a real example where a persons time is not worth more than a poverty lifestyle?

Are you willing to pay $20 for a cheap fast food burger?

If the answer is no... then you yourself are an example of how a persons time is not worth more than a poverty lifestyle.

Every single customer that refuses to pay significantly more for the job, is a someone saying that labor is not worth a middle class income.

Next time you go get your oil changed, how much are you going to pay for it? $100? $50? You drive through Jiffy Lube, how much are you going to pay? Enough for them to have a middle class income? No. You won't. You are lying if you claim you will.

When you go get your Starbucks coffee, are you going to pay $6 for a plain coffee? No? Then you are the one saying that they don't deserve a living wage.

In and out pays their entry workers $13.80 an hour. Their burgers are not $20. Nice try

Oh that evil Christian company? You know they print Bible verses on their packaging?

In-N-Out President Lynsi Snyder Explains the Bible Verse on Their Cups in Rare Interview

Lynsi Snyder's uncle, Richard Snyder, was the first person to put "John 3:16" on the bottom of the In-N-Out soda cups

people.com

Regardless, that doesn't actually contradict my point.

Unless you think $13/hour in California, is a middle class life.

"Can you give a real example where a persons time is not worth more than a poverty lifestyle?"

That was the question. A poverty lifestyle.

Are you telling me, that $13/hour in California is not poverty? Yes it is. Very much it is. $15/hour is poverty in California.

If you want to have people live a middle class life in California, yeah the burger is going to be dramatically more expensive. I don't know if it would be $20 specifically for just the burger, but it's not going to be $5.

I don’t think I ever said the words middle class lifestyle in relation to minimum wage jobs. I simply said that anybody working full time should get paid enough to stay above the poverty line and off government assistance. Do you really not agree with that? Do you really want your tax dollars spent giving welfare to full time workers who’s bosses won’t pay them a living wage?

Well here's the first problem. When you say they should be paid enough to be above the poverty line... most people are paid enough to be above the poverty line.

You have a mother and father who work full time, even for minimum wage, unless they have more than 3 kids... they are above the poverty line.

If you have kids and you are single... that makes you stupid, and why should employers be forced to pay for the stupidity of others?

If you hire someone to mow your lawn, or do an oil change on your car, and they say "I just had my 3rd child, and I have no spouse... so I need you to pay me $100 to mow your lawn or oil change".... are you going to pay that?

No you will find someone cheaper to have your oil changed, or your lawn mowed.

You would never pay more for a service, because the people who provide that service acted irresponsibly.

Well... why do you expect employers to pay more, just because their employees acted dumb?

Further, many of these people who even claim to be single parents, are actually living with someone who is an adult.

And if they are, then they are not below the poverty line.... again unless they have 3 kids, and that would once again make them stupid.

I'll say that again, if you are working minimum wage, and your spouse is working minimum wage, and you are popping out your 4th child...... that makes you a moron.... and no the employer is not responsible to pay you more because you are a moron.

Further, it doesn't matter whether a person is above or below the poverty line, if the customer isn't willing to pay more for the service.

Just like the example above if you the customer are not willing to pay me the employer more money for having your lawn mowed, than I the employer can't pay the employee more for the lawn being mowed.

If you are only willing to pay me $30, then I can't pay the employee $30. I have to take out the cost of the office, the equipment, the gas in the mowers, the time traveled between appointments, the dispatcher that setups the appointments. I have to pay all that, and have money left over to repair existing mowers, and replacement mowers for ones no longer worth fixing, and I have to pay taxes, and Obama Care mandates and so on.

And then... I have to make a profit, or it isn't worth my time running the business. A commercial grade mower costs upwards of $25,000. A small fleet of those could easily be a half million.

And you want me to earn $50,000 a year so that a 19-year-old in high school can make a middle class income? No. That's not a thing. And you yourself would never do that either.

A half million in the stock market would bring in $50,000 a year. So if I can't make substantially more money from my half million investment, then I would not do it. I would just lay everyone off, sell off the equipment, and go do something else with my money, and you can just be unemployed.

So the answer to the question is no. I don't think people should be paid more just because you think they ought to. When customers are willing to pay more for the service or products... then I can pay the employees more.

That's how life works. Again, you yourself would never do what you claim others should do. You wouldn't. You are lying if you say otherwise. These kind of theories, only work when you do not apply them to yourself.

If you have kids and are single you are stupid?! I’m gonna stop right there and not read anymore of your garbage. What a horrible and ignorant claim. You know there are plenty of single mothers who have been widowed or victims of abuse. But they are stupid? Get some perspective. I can’t respect your opinions when you say shit like that.

No, that is dead on right and accurate. If you jump in the sack with someone, when you are not married, and start popping out kids, when you can't afford to have kids because you are single.... YES YOU ARE STUPID. That is the very definition of a moron.

You know there are plenty of single mothers who have been widowed or victims of abuse.

That is a tiny tiny fraction of the single mothers. TINY fraction. Very very few.

For widows, that's why you have life insurance. Everyone should have life insurance. Everyone. You get married to a guy, and you start having kids, you get life insurance.

A male aged 30, with a $1 Million dollar life insurance policy, is $30 a month. Every single parent should have a life insurance policy. No exceptions. And.... YES you can afford it. Do not be irresponsible.

As for victims of abuse, we have charities, and battered women's shelters. I personally donate money to such charities. My church also provides for victims of abuse in our church.

I completely support helping such people.

However.... the vast vast vast majority of people we are talking about, are not in that situation. Most are just flat out irresponsible people.

And again... whether you think they are all widows and victims of abuse or not.... are you going to pay $100 to have an oil change, because you think employees should get a higher wage or not?

The answer is still, no you won't. If the oil change place raises their prices, you will go elsewhere like everyone else.

So it still does not matter. I can't pay my employees more, when you won't pay me more. I can't pay the person who mows your lawn $30, if you won't pay me $30. Sorry.

Instead your widows and abuse victims will be unemployed earning zero. How did your plan help them, when they are now earning zero?

Why do you think oil changes would go up to $100 if wages were $15 an hour? That sounds rather absurd

 

[Bobob]

llegal aliens work for less than minimum wage. Make them legal, force employers to pay them MW and RAISE the MW and the downward pressure on wages go away.

Importing millions of low-skilled illegal aliens, making them legal and hiking the minimum wage is not going to increase the demand for low-skilled native born US citizen workers.

Who determines the value an employee adds?

Math.

OK. Show your work

If you take $10 of input and turn it into an $18 product in 1 hour, you created $8 of value/hour.

The fact is that these immigrants do the work that American workers are too lazy to do, and $15 isn't going to change that. My view is that $15 is too high a wage for the kind of work that they do because that basic wage is a learning wage only.

What kind of work are you talking about? And what are they learning? Can you give a couple examples?

Farmhands, landscaping, clean-up, etc.

You think picking veggies in a field all day is a learning task? Or digging trenches or cleaning bathroom floors?! What exactly are they learning? And if somebody spends 40 hours a week 50 weeks a year doing those jobs do you really think they deserve to make less than $15,000 a year ?! Really think about that

Yes, I think everybody deserves more. It isn't only $15000. It also benefits that need to be added to the mix and then it becomes a matter of affordability.

Ok $15k and benefits. You good with that for full time work? The jobs you listed aren’t learning jobs btw, they are straight up hard labor

Unskilled labor, and yes it can be hard. A job like that pays less than skilled labor jobs. If you are a business owner, you will look at things a little differently when it is your money and you own the overhead. Trust me. It is very difficult for someone who has never had to meet payroll to understand the nature of business.

I’ve ran my own businesses did the past 15 years. I understand the nature of business. I could never stomach utilizing 40 hours a week 50 weeks a year of somebody’s time and only paying them $15k. I don’t care what job they were doing

If an employee wasn't making you money, what would you do?

.

Is it the employees job to make me money?

Unless it’s Socialism then yes.

How much money does a janitor make for a school?

A lot less than a teacher who'd have to do the cleaning if he wasn't there. It's called value added. I thought you own a business, you don't seem to know much about running one.

.

I asked a simple question... how much money does a janitor make for a school?

You didn't say what kind of school.

.

You choose

Since most schools are not profit making businesses it's irrelevant to the conversation. No one is there to make money for the school. Any more deflections?

.

Haha, these aren’t deflections these are examples of low wage jobs that aren’t directly related to making money for a business. You’ve been trying to make the point that an employee is only worth what they can bring in. I’m showing you thats BS. Get it now?

A public school is not a business, moron. Any more deflections?

Did I say public school? Let’s call it a private school, that’s a business right? They have janitors? So do office buildings and hospitals and many other businesses, right?. Are you that retarded that you don’t get the point, you need to play little word games?! Come in Bri step it up

I apologize for jump in the middle here....

In a private free market capitalist company, every single employee produces a profit for the benefit of the company, either directly, or indirectly.

If someone does not produce value to the company, then they usually are not employed.

So I worked at a small manufacturing company. Like with all smaller companies, the sales are rarely consistent.

Sales were low, and we had a small crew of people, and cleaning the floors, emptying trash cans, and cleaning the bathrooms and such, were all done by the regular crew.

Well a huge massive order came in, and we had the place packed. Pretty soon, the place was filthy. We hired on a person to go around and empty the trash, and clean the floors, and the bathrooms, and other janitorial duties.

After two years, the sales went back down to the previous low level, and we laid the janitor off, along with the rest of the unneeded crew, and people just went back to emptying their own trash, mopping the floors, and cleaning the bathrooms.

The purpose of a janitorial staff, is to free up other productive people, to produce value to the company.

The cleaning staff may not directly bring in value to the company, obviously the janitor doesn't have a revenue stream from 'emptied trash cans', but it does bring in money indirectly because now I can spend more time producing a product, because I don't have to spend time emptying the trash cans.

If there was no monetary value to having someone empty trash cans... then they would not pay someone to do it.

Every employee brings value to the company, directly or indirectly.

I agree, every employee brings value to a company, both directly and indirectly. I wasn’t saying janitors don’t bring value I was showing the indirect aspect of it which isn’t directly measurable

Actually, a janitor is an important asset to a small business and a necessary evil, as long as he/she is willing to do other menial tasks to help earn his/ her keep.

 

[Slade3200]

llegal aliens work for less than minimum wage. Make them legal, force employers to pay them MW and RAISE the MW and the downward pressure on wages go away.

Importing millions of low-skilled illegal aliens, making them legal and hiking the minimum wage is not going to increase the demand for low-skilled native born US citizen workers.

Who determines the value an employee adds?

Math.

OK. Show your work

If you take $10 of input and turn it into an $18 product in 1 hour, you created $8 of value/hour.

The fact is that these immigrants do the work that American workers are too lazy to do, and $15 isn't going to change that. My view is that $15 is too high a wage for the kind of work that they do because that basic wage is a learning wage only.

What kind of work are you talking about? And what are they learning? Can you give a couple examples?

Farmhands, landscaping, clean-up, etc.

You think picking veggies in a field all day is a learning task? Or digging trenches or cleaning bathroom floors?! What exactly are they learning? And if somebody spends 40 hours a week 50 weeks a year doing those jobs do you really think they deserve to make less than $15,000 a year ?! Really think about that

Yes, I think everybody deserves more. It isn't only $15000. It also benefits that need to be added to the mix and then it becomes a matter of affordability.

Ok $15k and benefits. You good with that for full time work? The jobs you listed aren’t learning jobs btw, they are straight up hard labor

Unskilled labor, and yes it can be hard. A job like that pays less than skilled labor jobs. If you are a business owner, you will look at things a little differently when it is your money and you own the overhead. Trust me. It is very difficult for someone who has never had to meet payroll to understand the nature of business.

I’ve ran my own businesses did the past 15 years. I understand the nature of business. I could never stomach utilizing 40 hours a week 50 weeks a year of somebody’s time and only paying them $15k. I don’t care what job they were doing

If an employee wasn't making you money, what would you do?

.

Is it the employees job to make me money?

Unless it’s Socialism then yes.

How much money does a janitor make for a school?

A lot less than a teacher who'd have to do the cleaning if he wasn't there. It's called value added. I thought you own a business, you don't seem to know much about running one.

.

I asked a simple question... how much money does a janitor make for a school?

You didn't say what kind of school.

.

You choose

My view is that you don't start unskilled labor at $15. As they assimilate, raises should and would follow and possibly exceed $15 per hour if you want to keep them as your employee and they are doing a good job. They also might be promoted based on their job performance.

What do you want to start unskilled labor at? What wage sounds fair for full time work?

Depends on the job at hand. Maybe a driver or delivery person at $10 dollars an hour. If they stick it out and are good with customers and show up for work, a raise is in order after a while and maybe training for a skilled job.

Ok that’s a fair statement. Do you think $7.25 is reasonable for full time work as a driver/delivery person?

The market says it's reasonable. What you think is irrelevant.

How is the market saying that?

 

[Slade3200]

llegal aliens work for less than minimum wage. Make them legal, force employers to pay them MW and RAISE the MW and the downward pressure on wages go away.

Importing millions of low-skilled illegal aliens, making them legal and hiking the minimum wage is not going to increase the demand for low-skilled native born US citizen workers.

Who determines the value an employee adds?

Math.

OK. Show your work

If you take $10 of input and turn it into an $18 product in 1 hour, you created $8 of value/hour.

The fact is that these immigrants do the work that American workers are too lazy to do, and $15 isn't going to change that. My view is that $15 is too high a wage for the kind of work that they do because that basic wage is a learning wage only.

What kind of work are you talking about? And what are they learning? Can you give a couple examples?

Farmhands, landscaping, clean-up, etc.

You think picking veggies in a field all day is a learning task? Or digging trenches or cleaning bathroom floors?! What exactly are they learning? And if somebody spends 40 hours a week 50 weeks a year doing those jobs do you really think they deserve to make less than $15,000 a year ?! Really think about that

Yes, I think everybody deserves more. It isn't only $15000. It also benefits that need to be added to the mix and then it becomes a matter of affordability.

Ok $15k and benefits. You good with that for full time work? The jobs you listed aren’t learning jobs btw, they are straight up hard labor

Unskilled labor, and yes it can be hard. A job like that pays less than skilled labor jobs. If you are a business owner, you will look at things a little differently when it is your money and you own the overhead. Trust me. It is very difficult for someone who has never had to meet payroll to understand the nature of business.

I’ve ran my own businesses did the past 15 years. I understand the nature of business. I could never stomach utilizing 40 hours a week 50 weeks a year of somebody’s time and only paying them $15k. I don’t care what job they were doing

If an employee wasn't making you money, what would you do?

.

Is it the employees job to make me money?

Unless it’s Socialism then yes.

How much money does a janitor make for a school?

A lot less than a teacher who'd have to do the cleaning if he wasn't there. It's called value added. I thought you own a business, you don't seem to know much about running one.

.

I asked a simple question... how much money does a janitor make for a school?

You didn't say what kind of school.

.

You choose

Since most schools are not profit making businesses it's irrelevant to the conversation. No one is there to make money for the school. Any more deflections?

.

Haha, these aren’t deflections these are examples of low wage jobs that aren’t directly related to making money for a business. You’ve been trying to make the point that an employee is only worth what they can bring in. I’m showing you thats BS. Get it now?

A public school is not a business, moron. Any more deflections?

Did I say public school? Let’s call it a private school, that’s a business right? They have janitors? So do office buildings and hospitals and many other businesses, right?. Are you that retarded that you don’t get the point, you need to play little word games?! Come in Bri step it up

You said "most schools are not profit making businesses." That's right, and about 90% of those are public schools.

So what? Has nothing to do with the point I made

 

[WEATHER53]

People are responsible to make themselves fit into the economy. The economy is not to be tailored to meet the needs of all people.
Employment is, thankfully, not a government safety net entity

 

[bripat9643]

llegal aliens work for less than minimum wage. Make them legal, force employers to pay them MW and RAISE the MW and the downward pressure on wages go away.

Importing millions of low-skilled illegal aliens, making them legal and hiking the minimum wage is not going to increase the demand for low-skilled native born US citizen workers.

Who determines the value an employee adds?

Math.

OK. Show your work

If you take $10 of input and turn it into an $18 product in 1 hour, you created $8 of value/hour.

The fact is that these immigrants do the work that American workers are too lazy to do, and $15 isn't going to change that. My view is that $15 is too high a wage for the kind of work that they do because that basic wage is a learning wage only.

What kind of work are you talking about? And what are they learning? Can you give a couple examples?

Farmhands, landscaping, clean-up, etc.

You think picking veggies in a field all day is a learning task? Or digging trenches or cleaning bathroom floors?! What exactly are they learning? And if somebody spends 40 hours a week 50 weeks a year doing those jobs do you really think they deserve to make less than $15,000 a year ?! Really think about that

Yes, I think everybody deserves more. It isn't only $15000. It also benefits that need to be added to the mix and then it becomes a matter of affordability.

Ok $15k and benefits. You good with that for full time work? The jobs you listed aren’t learning jobs btw, they are straight up hard labor

Unskilled labor, and yes it can be hard. A job like that pays less than skilled labor jobs. If you are a business owner, you will look at things a little differently when it is your money and you own the overhead. Trust me. It is very difficult for someone who has never had to meet payroll to understand the nature of business.

I’ve ran my own businesses did the past 15 years. I understand the nature of business. I could never stomach utilizing 40 hours a week 50 weeks a year of somebody’s time and only paying them $15k. I don’t care what job they were doing

If an employee wasn't making you money, what would you do?

.

Is it the employees job to make me money?

Unless it’s Socialism then yes.

How much money does a janitor make for a school?

A lot less than a teacher who'd have to do the cleaning if he wasn't there. It's called value added. I thought you own a business, you don't seem to know much about running one.

.

I asked a simple question... how much money does a janitor make for a school?

You didn't say what kind of school.

.

You choose

My view is that you don't start unskilled labor at $15. As they assimilate, raises should and would follow and possibly exceed $15 per hour if you want to keep them as your employee and they are doing a good job. They also might be promoted based on their job performance.

What do you want to start unskilled labor at? What wage sounds fair for full time work?

Depends on the job at hand. Maybe a driver or delivery person at $10 dollars an hour. If they stick it out and are good with customers and show up for work, a raise is in order after a while and maybe training for a skilled job.

Ok that’s a fair statement. Do you think $7.25 is reasonable for full time work as a driver/delivery person?

The market says it's reasonable. What you think is irrelevant.

How is the market saying that?

By paying the gong rate for his services.

 

[Slade3200]

llegal aliens work for less than minimum wage. Make them legal, force employers to pay them MW and RAISE the MW and the downward pressure on wages go away.

Importing millions of low-skilled illegal aliens, making them legal and hiking the minimum wage is not going to increase the demand for low-skilled native born US citizen workers.

Who determines the value an employee adds?

Math.

OK. Show your work

If you take $10 of input and turn it into an $18 product in 1 hour, you created $8 of value/hour.

The fact is that these immigrants do the work that American workers are too lazy to do, and $15 isn't going to change that. My view is that $15 is too high a wage for the kind of work that they do because that basic wage is a learning wage only.

What kind of work are you talking about? And what are they learning? Can you give a couple examples?

Farmhands, landscaping, clean-up, etc.

You think picking veggies in a field all day is a learning task? Or digging trenches or cleaning bathroom floors?! What exactly are they learning? And if somebody spends 40 hours a week 50 weeks a year doing those jobs do you really think they deserve to make less than $15,000 a year ?! Really think about that

Yes, I think everybody deserves more. It isn't only $15000. It also benefits that need to be added to the mix and then it becomes a matter of affordability.

Ok $15k and benefits. You good with that for full time work? The jobs you listed aren’t learning jobs btw, they are straight up hard labor

Unskilled labor, and yes it can be hard. A job like that pays less than skilled labor jobs. If you are a business owner, you will look at things a little differently when it is your money and you own the overhead. Trust me. It is very difficult for someone who has never had to meet payroll to understand the nature of business.

I’ve ran my own businesses did the past 15 years. I understand the nature of business. I could never stomach utilizing 40 hours a week 50 weeks a year of somebody’s time and only paying them $15k. I don’t care what job they were doing

If an employee wasn't making you money, what would you do?

.

Is it the employees job to make me money?

Unless it’s Socialism then yes.

How much money does a janitor make for a school?

A lot less than a teacher who'd have to do the cleaning if he wasn't there. It's called value added. I thought you own a business, you don't seem to know much about running one.

.

I asked a simple question... how much money does a janitor make for a school?

You didn't say what kind of school.

.

You choose

My view is that you don't start unskilled labor at $15. As they assimilate, raises should and would follow and possibly exceed $15 per hour if you want to keep them as your employee and they are doing a good job. They also might be promoted based on their job performance.

What do you want to start unskilled labor at? What wage sounds fair for full time work?

Depends on the job at hand. Maybe a driver or delivery person at $10 dollars an hour. If they stick it out and are good with customers and show up for work, a raise is in order after a while and maybe training for a skilled job.

Ok that’s a fair statement. Do you think $7.25 is reasonable for full time work as a driver/delivery person?

The market says it's reasonable. What you think is irrelevant.

How is the market saying that?

By paying the gong rate for his services.

Why is the going rate $7.25 and not $5?

 

[Turtlesoup]

Rep. Ro Khanna (D-CA) told CNN in an interview on Sunday that he and presumably other Democrats “don’t want low-wage” small businesses as he advocated for increasing the minimum wage. “We don’t want low-wage businesses,” he said when asked if mom and pop shops should be forced to pay employees more. “I think most successful small businesses can pay a fair wage.”

Democrat Rep. Ro Khanna: ‘We Don’t Want Low-Wage’ Small Businesses That Pay Less Than $15 Minimum Wage | The Daily Wire

www.dailywire.com

No beating around the bush there. The Rich and big-time Corporations only. F these local businesses who don't succeed by economies of scale. No open market of ideas. If you can't pay what I think you should, you should be erased.

The latest daily example of Leftist totalitarianism.

What is wrong with not wanting businesses that pay low wages? The state has one of the highest cost factors to exist there. The state is number one in the nation with GDP.

I dunno----People needing jobs-and not being able to find any.
Or that in order for new corporations to appear---new businesses need to appear generally and then grow.
Destroying small businesses which employ most of the people, means massive unemployment.

 

[bripat9643]

The market says it's reasonable. What you think is irrelevant.

How is the market saying that?

By paying the gong rate for his services.

Why is the going rate $7.25 and not $5?

Because of the laws of supply and demand, which you claim to understand.

Why is gas $2.25/gal?

 

[struth]

llegal aliens work for less than minimum wage. Make them legal, force employers to pay them MW and RAISE the MW and the downward pressure on wages go away.

Importing millions of low-skilled illegal aliens, making them legal and hiking the minimum wage is not going to increase the demand for low-skilled native born US citizen workers.

Who determines the value an employee adds?

Math.

OK. Show your work

If you take $10 of input and turn it into an $18 product in 1 hour, you created $8 of value/hour.

The fact is that these immigrants do the work that American workers are too lazy to do, and $15 isn't going to change that. My view is that $15 is too high a wage for the kind of work that they do because that basic wage is a learning wage only.

What kind of work are you talking about? And what are they learning? Can you give a couple examples?

Farmhands, landscaping, clean-up, etc.

You think picking veggies in a field all day is a learning task? Or digging trenches or cleaning bathroom floors?! What exactly are they learning? And if somebody spends 40 hours a week 50 weeks a year doing those jobs do you really think they deserve to make less than $15,000 a year ?! Really think about that

Yes, I think everybody deserves more. It isn't only $15000. It also benefits that need to be added to the mix and then it becomes a matter of affordability.

Ok $15k and benefits. You good with that for full time work? The jobs you listed aren’t learning jobs btw, they are straight up hard labor

Unskilled labor, and yes it can be hard. A job like that pays less than skilled labor jobs. If you are a business owner, you will look at things a little differently when it is your money and you own the overhead. Trust me. It is very difficult for someone who has never had to meet payroll to understand the nature of business.

I’ve ran my own businesses did the past 15 years. I understand the nature of business. I could never stomach utilizing 40 hours a week 50 weeks a year of somebody’s time and only paying them $15k. I don’t care what job they were doing

If an employee wasn't making you money, what would you do?

.

Is it the employees job to make me money?

Unless it’s Socialism then yes.

How much money does a janitor make for a school?

A lot less than a teacher who'd have to do the cleaning if he wasn't there. It's called value added. I thought you own a business, you don't seem to know much about running one.

.

I asked a simple question... how much money does a janitor make for a school?

You didn't say what kind of school.

.

You choose

Since most schools are not profit making businesses it's irrelevant to the conversation. No one is there to make money for the school. Any more deflections?

.

Haha, these aren’t deflections these are examples of low wage jobs that aren’t directly related to making money for a business. You’ve been trying to make the point that an employee is only worth what they can bring in. I’m showing you thats BS. Get it now?

You don't think a farm hand picking veggies, or a janitor cleaning the office, is directly related to the business makring money? Really?

Of course they are...you need farrm hands to help pick or produce the product you take to market.

You need a clean office to bring in customers....

 

[Slade3200]

The market says it's reasonable. What you think is irrelevant.

How is the market saying that?

By paying the gong rate for his services.

Why is the going rate $7.25 and not $5?

Because of the laws of supply and demand, which you claim to understand.

Why is gas $2.25/gal?

Haha. No the “going rate” is $7.25 because there is a law that makes it that. At least you attempted to answer. I’ll give you credit for that

 

[Slade3200]

llegal aliens work for less than minimum wage. Make them legal, force employers to pay them MW and RAISE the MW and the downward pressure on wages go away.

Importing millions of low-skilled illegal aliens, making them legal and hiking the minimum wage is not going to increase the demand for low-skilled native born US citizen workers.

Who determines the value an employee adds?

Math.

OK. Show your work

If you take $10 of input and turn it into an $18 product in 1 hour, you created $8 of value/hour.

The fact is that these immigrants do the work that American workers are too lazy to do, and $15 isn't going to change that. My view is that $15 is too high a wage for the kind of work that they do because that basic wage is a learning wage only.

What kind of work are you talking about? And what are they learning? Can you give a couple examples?

Farmhands, landscaping, clean-up, etc.

You think picking veggies in a field all day is a learning task? Or digging trenches or cleaning bathroom floors?! What exactly are they learning? And if somebody spends 40 hours a week 50 weeks a year doing those jobs do you really think they deserve to make less than $15,000 a year ?! Really think about that

Yes, I think everybody deserves more. It isn't only $15000. It also benefits that need to be added to the mix and then it becomes a matter of affordability.

Ok $15k and benefits. You good with that for full time work? The jobs you listed aren’t learning jobs btw, they are straight up hard labor

Unskilled labor, and yes it can be hard. A job like that pays less than skilled labor jobs. If you are a business owner, you will look at things a little differently when it is your money and you own the overhead. Trust me. It is very difficult for someone who has never had to meet payroll to understand the nature of business.

I’ve ran my own businesses did the past 15 years. I understand the nature of business. I could never stomach utilizing 40 hours a week 50 weeks a year of somebody’s time and only paying them $15k. I don’t care what job they were doing

If an employee wasn't making you money, what would you do?

.

Is it the employees job to make me money?

Unless it’s Socialism then yes.

How much money does a janitor make for a school?

A lot less than a teacher who'd have to do the cleaning if he wasn't there. It's called value added. I thought you own a business, you don't seem to know much about running one.

.

I asked a simple question... how much money does a janitor make for a school?

You didn't say what kind of school.

.

You choose

Since most schools are not profit making businesses it's irrelevant to the conversation. No one is there to make money for the school. Any more deflections?

.

Haha, these aren’t deflections these are examples of low wage jobs that aren’t directly related to making money for a business. You’ve been trying to make the point that an employee is only worth what they can bring in. I’m showing you thats BS. Get it now?

You don't think a farm hand picking veggies, or a janitor cleaning the office, is directly related to the business makring money? Really?

Of course they are...you need farrm hands to help pick or produce the product you take to market.

You need a clean office to bring in customers....

Of course they all play a part in the business. But the question was being asked about value. I asked who determines the value of an employee? The people I was conversing with implied that it was dependent on the revenue they bring in so I cited examples of jobs that don’t bring in revenue. They are an expense and part of the overall operations of the business

 

[struth]

llegal aliens work for less than minimum wage. Make them legal, force employers to pay them MW and RAISE the MW and the downward pressure on wages go away.

Importing millions of low-skilled illegal aliens, making them legal and hiking the minimum wage is not going to increase the demand for low-skilled native born US citizen workers.

Who determines the value an employee adds?

Math.

OK. Show your work

If you take $10 of input and turn it into an $18 product in 1 hour, you created $8 of value/hour.

The fact is that these immigrants do the work that American workers are too lazy to do, and $15 isn't going to change that. My view is that $15 is too high a wage for the kind of work that they do because that basic wage is a learning wage only.

What kind of work are you talking about? And what are they learning? Can you give a couple examples?

Farmhands, landscaping, clean-up, etc.

You think picking veggies in a field all day is a learning task? Or digging trenches or cleaning bathroom floors?! What exactly are they learning? And if somebody spends 40 hours a week 50 weeks a year doing those jobs do you really think they deserve to make less than $15,000 a year ?! Really think about that

Yes, I think everybody deserves more. It isn't only $15000. It also benefits that need to be added to the mix and then it becomes a matter of affordability.

Ok $15k and benefits. You good with that for full time work? The jobs you listed aren’t learning jobs btw, they are straight up hard labor

Unskilled labor, and yes it can be hard. A job like that pays less than skilled labor jobs. If you are a business owner, you will look at things a little differently when it is your money and you own the overhead. Trust me. It is very difficult for someone who has never had to meet payroll to understand the nature of business.

I’ve ran my own businesses did the past 15 years. I understand the nature of business. I could never stomach utilizing 40 hours a week 50 weeks a year of somebody’s time and only paying them $15k. I don’t care what job they were doing

If an employee wasn't making you money, what would you do?

.

Is it the employees job to make me money?

Unless it’s Socialism then yes.

How much money does a janitor make for a school?

A lot less than a teacher who'd have to do the cleaning if he wasn't there. It's called value added. I thought you own a business, you don't seem to know much about running one.

.

I asked a simple question... how much money does a janitor make for a school?

You didn't say what kind of school.

.

You choose

Since most schools are not profit making businesses it's irrelevant to the conversation. No one is there to make money for the school. Any more deflections?

.

Haha, these aren’t deflections these are examples of low wage jobs that aren’t directly related to making money for a business. You’ve been trying to make the point that an employee is only worth what they can bring in. I’m showing you thats BS. Get it now?

You don't think a farm hand picking veggies, or a janitor cleaning the office, is directly related to the business makring money? Really?

Of course they are...you need farrm hands to help pick or produce the product you take to market.

You need a clean office to bring in customers....

Of course they all play a part in the business. But the question was being asked about value. I asked who determines the value of an employee? The people I was conversing with implied that it was dependent on the revenue they bring in so I cited examples of jobs that don’t bring in revenue. They are an expense and part of the overall operations of the business

The market....what janitors at similar businesses in the same locality are being paid, for farmhands, what similar farm hands in the same locality, at the same type of farm are being paid.

Obviously if they are good at their job, and gain experience the employer will want to reward them to keep them...pay them more, treat them well....move them up to other positions etc.

 

[Andylusion]

llegal aliens work for less than minimum wage. Make them legal, force employers to pay them MW and RAISE the MW and the downward pressure on wages go away.

Importing millions of low-skilled illegal aliens, making them legal and hiking the minimum wage is not going to increase the demand for low-skilled native born US citizen workers.

Who determines the value an employee adds?

Math.

OK. Show your work

If you take $10 of input and turn it into an $18 product in 1 hour, you created $8 of value/hour.

The fact is that these immigrants do the work that American workers are too lazy to do, and $15 isn't going to change that. My view is that $15 is too high a wage for the kind of work that they do because that basic wage is a learning wage only.

What kind of work are you talking about? And what are they learning? Can you give a couple examples?

Farmhands, landscaping, clean-up, etc.

You think picking veggies in a field all day is a learning task? Or digging trenches or cleaning bathroom floors?! What exactly are they learning? And if somebody spends 40 hours a week 50 weeks a year doing those jobs do you really think they deserve to make less than $15,000 a year ?! Really think about that

Yes, I think everybody deserves more. It isn't only $15000. It also benefits that need to be added to the mix and then it becomes a matter of affordability.

Ok $15k and benefits. You good with that for full time work? The jobs you listed aren’t learning jobs btw, they are straight up hard labor

Unskilled labor, and yes it can be hard. A job like that pays less than skilled labor jobs. If you are a business owner, you will look at things a little differently when it is your money and you own the overhead. Trust me. It is very difficult for someone who has never had to meet payroll to understand the nature of business.

I’ve ran my own businesses did the past 15 years. I understand the nature of business. I could never stomach utilizing 40 hours a week 50 weeks a year of somebody’s time and only paying them $15k. I don’t care what job they were doing

If an employee wasn't making you money, what would you do?

.

Is it the employees job to make me money?

Unless it’s Socialism then yes.

How much money does a janitor make for a school?

A lot less than a teacher who'd have to do the cleaning if he wasn't there. It's called value added. I thought you own a business, you don't seem to know much about running one.

.

I asked a simple question... how much money does a janitor make for a school?

You didn't say what kind of school.

.

You choose

My view is that you don't start unskilled labor at $15. As they assimilate, raises should and would follow and possibly exceed $15 per hour if you want to keep them as your employee and they are doing a good job. They also might be promoted based on their job performance.

What do you want to start unskilled labor at? What wage sounds fair for full time work?

Depends on the job at hand. Maybe a driver or delivery person at $10 dollars an hour. If they stick it out and are good with customers and show up for work, a raise is in order after a while and maybe training for a skilled job.

Ok that’s a fair statement. Do you think $7.25 is reasonable for full time work as a driver/delivery person?

I don't think that I could keep any help at $7.25, although I think it is reasonable when benefits are added.

I too wouldn’t feel right about paying somebody that little for full time work. Maybe if I was also giving them room and board or some other benefits like you mentioned

Again you are assuming that everyone has the ability to pay more for labor.

That is simply not always the case. Yes, if you work at an engineering firm, or a some other company producing high value goods or services... sure you can pay tons of money. Because they producing tons of value.

It reminds me of there was a video where they were talking about how Harley Davidson employees are paid more than employees of other companies.

Well yeah... Because their bikes sell for $20K to $40K. A Hawk Enduro sells for $1,400. Do you think the employees making the Hawk $1,400 bike can be paid the same as employees making the Harley Davidson Road King that sells for $20K? No. They can't. Because the bike doesn't bring in that much money.

Similarly, a waitress at Apple bees does not make as much as a waitress at an elite restaurant like the Refractory here in Columbus, which is a minimum order of $100.

Why are they paid more? Because they generate more value. That's how life works.

 

[Richard-H]

Democrats. Textbook Fascism.
View attachment 460323

Do you believe everything that Mussolini said?

 

[Richard-H]

Wages should be set according to the real productive value of the work done by the employee.

If a person is 'low skilled', but their labor producing large profits for their employer, then they should be well paid.

 

[Stryder50]

Rep. Ro Khanna (D-CA) told CNN in an interview on Sunday that he and presumably other Democrats “don’t want low-wage” small businesses as he advocated for increasing the minimum wage. “We don’t want low-wage businesses,” he said when asked if mom and pop shops should be forced to pay employees more. “I think most successful small businesses can pay a fair wage.”

Democrat Rep. Ro Khanna: ‘We Don’t Want Low-Wage’ Small Businesses That Pay Less Than $15 Minimum Wage | The Daily Wire

www.dailywire.com

No beating around the bush there. The Rich and big-time Corporations only. F these local businesses who don't succeed by economies of scale. No open market of ideas. If you can't pay what I think you should, you should be erased.

The latest daily example of Leftist totalitarianism.

Thing is, most small businesses fail within the first three years. Figures are somewhere between 3 out of 4 or 4 out of 5, IIRC. And for those that make it past that benchmark, the owners often aren't earning enough in profits for themselves to get a $15/hour wage, until more time as "successful" has passed anyway.

And if the $15/hour minimum wage does pass, which for many might be about a 50% pay increase, that cost will have to be passed on in increase of costs/prices for goods and services, likely also by a factor of about 50% or more.

So eventually, no real net gain to many.

Assuming the extra costs can be passed on to consumers. A more likely result will be a decline in entry level jobs and less persons employed.

Also, those in more skilled and higher paying positions will likely have to see an equal percent pay increase to reflect their greater value in the market place.

What is needed is more effective education on some of the basics of economics, a better understanding of supply versus demands and profits versus losses. Might also throw in some education on concepts of inflation and devaluation of currency this would accelerate.