Democracy in the Middle East ?

[Dartayan]

..just for a laugh I would like someone to actually attempt to sound intelligent. While at the same time try to convince me that
the US gives a rats ass about Democracy in the Middle East, and its got nothing to do with all that oil.

 

[Dartayan]

..my question is based on the latest reasons given by your President, or is questioining the government no longer allowed under the Patriot act ?

 

[jimnyc]

Originally posted by Dartayan
..my question is based on the latest reasons given by your President, or is questioining the government no longer allowed under the Patriot act ?

And what exactly were these "latest reasons"? And please show me how they imply it's about oil and not democracy.

Thanks

 

[kcmcdonald]

OK Dartayan,
If we are to discuss the middle east we must first talk about the state of isreal. Isreal is a DEMOCRACY in the middle east. We are one of a FEW nations who actually support the state. now when you look at teh history of the middle east, it's pretty easy you only go back about 50 years. Isreal since it's exsitance has fought three major wars with it's arab nieghbors. All of these agreeser nations havae been under the rule of a tryant or a despot. None of these leaders were elected. So, If all of the leaders of the agressive Arab nations were non-elected govts then it would be better if the Arab nations became elected govts. Because of this idea and the fact that no democratic nation hasd ever fought another democratic nation, to put a democracy in the middle east would be a point for the US and a new partner in peace for the Isrealies. Does that help a little, if not i'll say this. Regions with no democracy and no recorse for rullers, ie sanctions(these peopel have oil and evreyone needs oil) the nations act however the ruller descides at the time. That in todays world is very dangerous.

P.S
I hope you can engage in some dialog here i'd like to think why you believe were over ther because of Oil, I've never actually heard a good argument on that, mabey you could be the first. Or mabey you are a troll.

 

[kcmcdonald]

how can you even begin to understand the implications of the Pat Act if you don't even live in america?

 

[Dartayan]

...that is the conclusion I draw, based on the observed fact that the US almost never supports real Democracy and with the understanding of the importance Oil plays in our Economies, just about all Wars or conflicts are about the control of resources. Do you think that 2004 is really that different from 1540 ? we live in a time whetre not just Oil but many valueable resources are dwindling, personally I think we are going to blow each other to hell over control of them.

 

[jimnyc]

Originally posted by Dartayan
...that is the conclusion I draw, based on the observed fact that the US almost never supports real Democracy and with the understanding of the importance Oil plays in our Economies, just about all Wars or conflicts are about the control of resources. Do you think that 2004 is really that different from 1540 ? we live in a time whetre not just Oil but many valueable resources are dwindling, personally I think we are going to blow each other to hell over control of them.

Where are the "latest reasons" from our president?

 

[kcmcdonald]

if oil control was our goal i'd believe we'ld have gone to SA and would now consider Iraq an american colony. that ended over 60 years ago man get your head out of the sand and read a history book. or better yet a newspaper.

 

[Dartayan]

..insults always impune the person throwing them. Don't even talk to me about Isreal, the minute you say one negative thing out come the ant-semite name calling, and if you think that the situation in Iraq will not sooner then you think turn into another Vietnam, well its your kids not mine.

 

[jimnyc]

Originally posted by Dartayan
..insults always impune the person throwing them. Don't even talk to me about Isreal, the minute you say one negative thing out come the ant-semite name calling, and if you think that the situation in Iraq will not sooner then you think turn into another Vietnam, well its your kids not mine.

I'm still waiting for the "latest reasons" from our president.

 

[kcmcdonald]

 

[kcmcdonald]

not you jimnyc, dumb ass above you.

Vietnam ha, give me a sec...it takes a little while to get back man, feel out of my chair on that one. Hey Canada what the hell do you know about Vietnam. Nothing!!!!! So if you are summizing that Iraq will turn into a "quagmire" you're wrong man people aren't dying things are going good. Mabey you should read some more.

 

[Dartayan]

..um about flowering Democracy in the Middle East, there did I pass your test, like I said, make all the big statements youy want about seizing the Iraq, as if the US can do whatever it wants, but oner of us here actually knows a little History, hell outside of Kabul , you can't weven control Afghanistan

 

[kcmcdonald]

Originally posted by Dartayan
..insults always impune the person throwing them. Don't even talk to me about Isreal, the minute you say one negative thing out come the ant-semite name calling, and if you think that the situation in Iraq will not sooner then you think turn into another Vietnam, well its your kids not mine.

OK, first it is not anti-semtic to talk about isreal, however you being a canadian i have no doubt that you would love to see the palestinains run over the isrealies and have a muslim region from river to sea. So talk about isreal you have your opion. pleas just don't be like some other s on the board who have no basis for thier claims. come on you still haven't reponded to the questions, you got time i'll be on for a while longer.

 

[jimnyc]

Originally posted by Dartayan
..um about flowering Democracy in the Middle East, there did I pass your test, like I said, make all the big statements youy want about seizing the Iraq, as if the US can do whatever it wants, but oner of us here actually knows a little History, hell outside of Kabul , you can't weven control Afghanistan

And what statements specifically lead you to believe his words are a lie and this is all actually about oil? Nothing you have posted thus far has given any reason to think that's the case. You said you based this 'idea' on "latest reasons" from our president. I fail to see where you made that connection.

 

[kcmcdonald]

Originally posted by Dartayan
..um about flowering Democracy in the Middle East, there did I pass your test, like I said, make all the big statements youy want about seizing the Iraq, as if the US can do whatever it wants, but oner of us here actually knows a little History, hell outside of Kabul , you can't weven control Afghanistan

what the heck!!! Flowering democracy, what is that please elaborate and what test are you talking about? The US doesn't do what ever it wants. we do what we need and stupid people like you don't know the difference. Kabaul, what are you talking about they just signed a constitution. Yes there are still problems but we handed the job of security to the Afgans, we hunt Taliban and AQ.

 

[Dartayan]

oh boy, please don't call me a troll pretty please.is this a collection of 12 year olds, I am absolutely astounded that your Country is about to become embroiled in a huge Guerilla War and most Americains and Canadians are totally oblivious to it, don't believe me, how about Richard Zinni, former US marine General, got bad news for you kids what you see on CNN is hogwash.

 

[jimnyc]

Originally posted by Dartayan
oh boy, please don't call me a troll pretty please.is this a collection of 12 year olds, I am absolutely astounded that your Country is about to become embroiled in a huge Guerilla War and most Americains and Canadians are totally oblivious to it, don't believe me, how about Richard Zinni, former US marine General, got bad news for you kids what you see on CNN is hogwash.

I've yet to call you any names nor have I been disrespectful to you in any way. You made a claim and now refuse to back it up even after I asked you on 3 seperate occassions. Can you backup what you have said, or did you just make it up?

What specific "latest reasons" are you speaking of and how did they convince you Iraq wasn't about democracy but rather the oil?

 

[kcmcdonald]

first off, i don't watch CNN, that is a horrible station it doesn't report the news. Also were is this massive army you talk about, where have they been stricking, every death as of late in Iraq has been from some bomb or bomber. The army gave up a few months ago. You have no clue do you, take a look at the actions as of late. It's a few guys with RPG's who shot them then run away causing damadge not death, and what is this general guy?

 

[kcmcdonald]

it's cool jimnyc he's just trying to weasel out of this one. Oh and a troll is not a childish name. that's what you are slowly becoming, you make a statement and don't back it up.