Definitive Proof that GOD Exists?

[Youwerecreated]

Prove that this planet is unique in the universe.

The fact that life can adapt to the most extreme conditions proves that you don't need specially designed conditions for life to exist and thrive.

Where did the ability to adapt originate from ?

What Makes Earth Special Compared to Other Planets | Space.com


What is there to debate there is no planet like earth.

another false declarative!

Prove it

 

[edthecynic]

It is one thing to say that if we didn't have tides and seasons that LIFE on Earth would be different, as you did at first, but it is quite another to claim that nature is making an effort to make life POSSIBLE on Earth. As was already pointed out bacteria can live in almost any extreme condition without tides, seasons, the moon or whatever. It was also pointed out that on the deep ocean floor there is a whole ecosystem that lives without tide, season, moon and sun feeding off of sulphur spewed by volcanic vents.

Human life may need special conditions, but life itself is not so demanding!

How do you suppose volcanoes erupt?

If life itself is "not so demanding" why is there not more evidence of it, and the only place we've found it, is here?

Where else have you looked for it as thoroughly as you have looked for it here?????

 

[Youwerecreated]

The ability to adapt is innate to life.

From your link:

Not-so-special Earth

As our planet-hunting technology improves, many planet hunters expect to find Earth's twin. The search has led scientists to debate whether Earth is really as special as we think it is.

"In the past 10 years, everything has been pointing in the direction of, 'Hey, the solar system, which we thought was unique, is not unique at all,'" said Alan Boss.

Boss and many other scientists think it's likely that some form of life exists on some of those countless other planets out there.

"Certainly there will be other planets that support life," he said. "I think life is actually quite common. I think we're going to find there are literally billions of them in the galaxy."

INNATE is not a good answer for the ability of organisms to adapt. This sounds like purposeful design to me.

Random chance sounds like purposeful design to you. Everything sounds like purposefully designed to you.

To many things produced by the creator serves a purpose to believe it was left to Random chance is not worthy of my beliefs. You want to believe in miracles go ahead but who was it that produced your miracles ?

 

[Youwerecreated]

It is not easy to estimate how far away from the Earth the Moon was when it formed, but simulations suggest is was about 3-5 times the radius of the Earth, or about 19-30 thousand km. The Moon is currently about 384,000 km away from Earth or 3-4 thousand times further away than this.
The exact rate of the Moon's movement away from Earth has varied a lot over time. It depends both on the distance between the Earth and the Moon, and the exact shape of the Earth. The details of continents and oceans moving around on Earth actually change the rate, which make it a very hard thing to estimate. The rate is currently slowing down slightly, and it is estimated that in about 15 billion years the Moon's orbit will stop increasing in size.
Thereafter, the Moon will remain at a fixed distance from Earth; the Moon will then appear fixed over one side of the Earth, never to be seen on the other side.
This extrapolation into the future is moot, however, because the Sun will have stopped shinning long before this and, in all likelihood, will have swallowed the Earth and Moon in the process.
In conclusion, it is not a easy question because there are a lot of unknown details about the formation of the Moon, probably a violent impact between the Earth and an object roughly the size of Mars.

What's the closest the moon has been to the Earth? - Yahoo! Answers

Ms daws is copying and pasting like there is no tomorrow now if he quotes anything that sounds sort of intelligent better check it if he does not credit the source.

 

[Youwerecreated]

Prove that this planet is unique in the universe.

The fact that life can adapt to the most extreme conditions proves that you don't need specially designed conditions for life to exist and thrive.

Where did the ability to adapt originate from ?

What Makes Earth Special Compared to Other Planets | Space.com


What is there to debate there is no planet like earth.

How many planets have we been able to study closely?

How many planets have we observed?

Do you really think we know that Earth is unique based on our incredibly limited experience?

We've been through this before YWC. You are basically saying that, having picked up a handful of sand from the beach, and having seen one of the grains of sand being a different color than the others, that the differently colored grain of sand is unique on the entire beach. No need to bother looking at the other trillion grains of sand, this tiny portion is all that's needed!

Of course it is unique there is none like it is there ?

 

[Hollie]

I can't believe this continues.

Let me put it this way. I want you to accept the existence of the Flying Spaghetti Monster. I cannot give you any evidence that his noodly appendages exist. You will know he exists once you believe he exists.

Are you going to now believe?

Nope, but my OP argument doesn't claim that I will get you to see the evidence. I readily admit, you are not going to see the evidence, you reject it completely and in it's entirety. I love the Flying Spaghetti Monster analogy, it works very well in a religious debate because it interjects yet another human incarnation of god. However, in a debate about spirituality, the Spaghetti Monster doesn't fly...pardon the pun. You see, there isn't 70k years of evidence that man has worshiped a spaghetti monster, as a fundamental part of it's human behavior. IF that were the case, I would suggest that maybe there IS such an entity, and people aren't suffering from widespread mass delusions for the course of their existence.

On the other hand....if you say god is in control of gravity, that's fine. I can still demonstrate gravity to you. The difference is that you are coming to a conclusion based on observations we can both experience. You don't have to believe in gravity to see the effects.

Your whole argument boils down to, 'because I say so'.

Demonstrate all you like, if I refuse to acknowledge or accept physical evidence, and maintain that "god did it" then you can never convince me. While you observe clear physical evidence, I reject that and observe the work of god. How do you get me to accept your evidence?

You have closed your mind to the possibility of spiritual nature, and do not acknowledge spiritual evidence. Your brain does not comprehend spiritual existence, and conflates it with physical existence. This leads you to demand physical evidence to support something that is not physical in nature and by definition, is not supported with physical evidence.

There isn’t 70,000 years of spirit worship.

Mankind has assigned various entities to explain natural processes that were not understood. Those entities were not necessarily the god-like spirits you wish them to be.

We can assign human frailties such as fear and ignorance to assignment of gods of thunder, lightning, etc. but various gods frequently took human form.



BTW, isn't it kinda' stating the obvious that (paraphrasing), something that is not physical in nature is not supported with physical evidence?

How convenient for your claims that they precludes evidence.

 

[edthecynic]

How do you suppose volcanoes erupt?

"Spiritual" forces"?.

Exactly! By the powerful but spiritual hand of the mighty but spiritual God Vulcan.

 

[Youwerecreated]

It is one thing to say that if we didn't have tides and seasons that LIFE on Earth would be different, as you did at first, but it is quite another to claim that nature is making an effort to make life POSSIBLE on Earth. As was already pointed out bacteria can live in almost any extreme condition without tides, seasons, the moon or whatever. It was also pointed out that on the deep ocean floor there is a whole ecosystem that lives without tide, season, moon and sun feeding off of sulphur spewed by volcanic vents.

Human life may need special conditions, but life itself is not so demanding!

How do you suppose volcanoes erupt?

If life itself is "not so demanding" why is there not more evidence of it, and the only place we've found it, is here?

Where else have you looked for it as thoroughly as you have looked for it here?????

Why can't you just say no there is no life out there as far as we know ?

 

[Hollie]

How do you suppose volcanoes erupt?

If life itself is "not so demanding" why is there not more evidence of it, and the only place we've found it, is here?

Where else have you looked for it as thoroughly as you have looked for it here?????

Why can't you just say no there is no life out there as far as we know ?

Consider the affects of discovery of life elsewhere in the solar system – on Mars, perhaps.

That would be utterly devastating to the religious articles as “creation” is uniquely an earthly event. Although, you and I both know that some obscure hadith or Bible verse would eventually be discovered as describing the event. “Ah, see, science “proving” the religious text”.

Send a probe to Mars, and prove life developed off planet Earth. This we are doing. What fundies / creationists are doing to establish their suppositions... well, forgive the irony, but, gawd only knows.

 

[Youwerecreated]

It is not easy to estimate how far away from the Earth the Moon was when it formed, but simulations suggest is was about 3-5 times the radius of the Earth, or about 19-30 thousand km. The Moon is currently about 384,000 km away from Earth or 3-4 thousand times further away than this.
The exact rate of the Moon's movement away from Earth has varied a lot over time. It depends both on the distance between the Earth and the Moon, and the exact shape of the Earth. The details of continents and oceans moving around on Earth actually change the rate, which make it a very hard thing to estimate. The rate is currently slowing down slightly, and it is estimated that in about 15 billion years the Moon's orbit will stop increasing in size.
Thereafter, the Moon will remain at a fixed distance from Earth; the Moon will then appear fixed over one side of the Earth, never to be seen on the other side.
This extrapolation into the future is moot, however, because the Sun will have stopped shinning long before this and, in all likelihood, will have swallowed the Earth and Moon in the process.
In conclusion, it is not a easy question because there are a lot of unknown details about the formation of the Moon, probably a violent impact between the Earth and an object roughly the size of Mars.

What's the closest the moon has been to the Earth? - Yahoo! Answers

Your math should be suffice to follow along and show that what you posted is nonsense.


http://creationwiki.org/Moon_is_receding_at_a_rate_too_fast_for_an_old_universe_(Talk.Origins)

 

[AVG-JOE]

I can't believe this continues.

Let me put it this way. I want you to accept the existence of the Flying Spaghetti Monster. I cannot give you any evidence that his noodly appendages exist. You will know he exists once you believe he exists.

Are you going to now believe?

On the other hand....if you say god is in control of gravity, that's fine. I can still demonstrate gravity to you. The difference is that you are coming to a conclusion based on observations we can both experience. You don't have to believe in gravity to see the effects.

Your whole argument boils down to, 'because I say so'.

There's a wee bit more than that...

There is one other piece of evidence offered: The deistic claims made about an ancient rebel named Jesus in the stories penned 70+ years after his political death.

WYGD?


If something sounds to fantastic to be true, it probably is... And that probability goes up when the teller of the tale starts asking for money.

 

[Hollie]

I can't believe this continues.

Let me put it this way. I want you to accept the existence of the Flying Spaghetti Monster. I cannot give you any evidence that his noodly appendages exist. You will know he exists once you believe he exists.

Are you going to now believe?

On the other hand....if you say god is in control of gravity, that's fine. I can still demonstrate gravity to you. The difference is that you are coming to a conclusion based on observations we can both experience. You don't have to believe in gravity to see the effects.

Your whole argument boils down to, 'because I say so'.

There's a wee bit more than that...

There is one other piece of evidence offered: The deistic claims made about an ancient rebel named Jesus in the stories penned 70+ years after his political death.

WYGD?


If something sounds to fantastic to be true, it probably is... And that probability goes up when the teller of the tale starts asking for money.

The idea that God is an oversized white male with a flowing beard who sits in the sky and tallies the fall of every sparrow is ludicrous. But if by "God" one means the set of physical laws that govern the universe, then clearly there is such a God. This God is emotionally unsatisfying . . . It does not make much sense to pray to the law of gravity.

Carl Sagan - among my favorite authors

 

[AVG-JOE]

At the risk of repeating myself...

If God IS, She's way bigger than ALL the ancient stories, let alone any one of them.

 

[Derideo_Te]

At the risk of repeating myself...

If God IS, She's way bigger than ALL the ancient stories, let alone any one of them.

Your forgot to mention that she is also an LBGT minority with a speech impediment and has a macabre sense of humor.

 

[Montrovant]

Where did the ability to adapt originate from ?

What Makes Earth Special Compared to Other Planets | Space.com


What is there to debate there is no planet like earth.

How many planets have we been able to study closely?

How many planets have we observed?

Do you really think we know that Earth is unique based on our incredibly limited experience?

We've been through this before YWC. You are basically saying that, having picked up a handful of sand from the beach, and having seen one of the grains of sand being a different color than the others, that the differently colored grain of sand is unique on the entire beach. No need to bother looking at the other trillion grains of sand, this tiny portion is all that's needed!

Of course it is unique there is none like it is there ?

There you go actually confirming my point.

I have no idea if the Earth is unique in the universe. Humanity has far, far, FAR too little observational power to know. Which is, of course, the entire point.

 

[Montrovant]

I can't believe this continues.

Let me put it this way. I want you to accept the existence of the Flying Spaghetti Monster. I cannot give you any evidence that his noodly appendages exist. You will know he exists once you believe he exists.

Are you going to now believe?

Nope, but my OP argument doesn't claim that I will get you to see the evidence. I readily admit, you are not going to see the evidence, you reject it completely and in it's entirety. I love the Flying Spaghetti Monster analogy, it works very well in a religious debate because it interjects yet another human incarnation of god. However, in a debate about spirituality, the Spaghetti Monster doesn't fly...pardon the pun. You see, there isn't 70k years of evidence that man has worshiped a spaghetti monster, as a fundamental part of it's human behavior. IF that were the case, I would suggest that maybe there IS such an entity, and people aren't suffering from widespread mass delusions for the course of their existence.

On the other hand....if you say god is in control of gravity, that's fine. I can still demonstrate gravity to you. The difference is that you are coming to a conclusion based on observations we can both experience. You don't have to believe in gravity to see the effects.

Your whole argument boils down to, 'because I say so'.

Demonstrate all you like, if I refuse to acknowledge or accept physical evidence, and maintain that "god did it" then you can never convince me. While you observe clear physical evidence, I reject that and observe the work of god. How do you get me to accept your evidence?

You have closed your mind to the possibility of spiritual nature, and do not acknowledge spiritual evidence. Your brain does not comprehend spiritual existence, and conflates it with physical existence. This leads you to demand physical evidence to support something that is not physical in nature and by definition, is not supported with physical evidence.

You are missing the point entirely!

'God did it' is a conclusion. It does not negate seeing the effects of gravity. Unless you are physically blind or have some malady that prevents you from seeing it, you will see something fall. If you wish to conclude god made it fall, more power to you. You will STILL have seen it fall, whether you believe in gravity or not.

With your definition of spiritual, people do NOT see anything fall until they believe they will see something fall.

See the difference?

That man has believed in and worshiped many different types of supernatural beings or gods has already been pointed out. So no, we don't have seventy thousand years of man worshiping the same thing as evidence.

 

[Hollie]

INNATE is not a good answer for the ability of organisms to adapt. This sounds like purposeful design to me.

Random chance sounds like purposeful design to you. Everything sounds like purposefully designed to you.

To many things produced by the creator serves a purpose to believe it was left to Random chance is not worthy of my beliefs. You want to believe in miracles go ahead but who was it that produced your miracles ?

Yeah, the blueprint for the cancer cell (thanks, designer gawds), serves a litany of "purposes".

That wasn't a miracle at all. Just a masterstroke of "design".

 

[daws101]

Not what is being said at all. Look at just the moon aspect... if the moon had not collided with Earth, sending it into a wobbling rotation, the planet would not have seasons. The seasons are of fundamental importance to almost all plant life, it is how they pollinate and reproduce. Other animals depend on plant life and couldn't' exist without it. If the moon had been larger or smaller, or struck the planet differently, the wobble and seasons would be much different. But the moon happened to be the perfect size and began orbiting Earth as a satellite, exerting not too much or too little gravitational counterforce, to create oceanic tides. Without the tides, many life forms in the sea could not exist, this is how they time reproduction. Had the moon been larger or came to orbit more closely, the tides would be massive and there would be little dry land. Further out, and lack of tide would have caused the oceans to stagnate.

Any reasonable or objective analysis, has to conclude life on Earth would not be the same without the moon, and may not even exist at all. I'm sure some smarty will weigh in on this, and disagree, but no reasonable person can think life would be anything like we know it to be, if we didn't have seasons and tides naturally instructing life's process.

Another thing to look at is our amazing atmosphere. While science geeks can explain how it works and how the atmosphere formed, they can't explain why we were so freaking lucky. You see, it just so happens, the elemental layers of the atmosphere protect all living things from deadly radiation and ultraviolet rays. Without the atmosphere, life could not exist on Earth.

Finally, because of our proximity to the sun, and large vast oceans, convection currents are formed, which enables millions of other life forms, and again, provides vital reproductive elements that would not exist otherwise. Combine all of the things I've mentioned, and you get our climate. While there are certainly extremes, our climate compared to that of other planets, is quite stable. The most fascinating thing is, if we didn't have evaporation or rain, which is caused by the aforementioned anomalies, life could not survive.

What we see is a concerted effort on part of nature, to make life possible on Earth. Some think this 'just so happens' to be the case, I believe it's too much coincidence to dismiss.

It is one thing to say that if we didn't have tides and seasons that LIFE on Earth would be different, as you did at first, but it is quite another to claim that nature is making an effort to make life POSSIBLE on Earth. As was already pointed out bacteria can live in almost any extreme condition without tides, seasons, the moon or whatever. It was also pointed out that on the deep ocean floor there is a whole ecosystem that lives without tide, season, moon and sun feeding off of sulphur spewed by volcanic vents.

Human life may need special conditions, but life itself is not so demanding!

What other planet is found to have life?

asked and answered.
your logic (if it can be called that) is if it's not in the bible it does not exist...
as I said before our best tech is not good enough yet to conclusively answer that question..

 

[daws101]

Was my question too difficult for you?

Stupid, yes, difficult, no.

Let me put it another way, of all the planets we have thoroughly explored, 100% of them have life.

Thanks for your dishonesty.

who's dishonesty ?
can't be more dishonest then claiming earth is the only planet that has life based on a flawed collection of myths from 2000 years ago.

 

[daws101]

A person should be able to detect design in nature and there is a lot of evidence that logically would infer design in nature. Purposeful design is hard to be mistaken on using logic.

again more bullshit !
Vitalism

Vitalism is the belief that the life-principle is non-material. This originated with Stahl (17th century), and held sway until the middle of the 19th century. It appealed to philosophers such as Henri Bergson, Nietzsche, Wilhelm Dilthey,[18] anatomists like Bichat, and chemists like Liebig.[19] Vitalism included the idea that there was a fundamental difference between organic and inorganic material, and the belief that organic material can only be derived from living things. This was disproved in 1828, when Friedrich Wöhler prepared urea from inorganic materials.[20] This Wöhler synthesis is considered the starting point of modern organic chemistry. It is of historical significance because for the first time an organic compound was produced from inorganic reactants.[19]

During the 1850s, Helmholtz, anticipated by Mayer, demonstrated that no energy is lost in muscle movement, suggesting that there were no "vital forces" necessary to move a muscle.[21] These results led to the abandonment of scientific interest in vitalistic theories, although the belief lingered on in pseudoscientific theories such as homeopat

Again your main comment was the term " Bullshit "

Give it up you did the same thing here you did in the thread I called you on. What I stated was a known fact and I read it with many different creationists sources but confirmed their claims before posting it heck I posted the same thing in the creationism thread.

I would probably bet since you copy and paste so much crap from wiki that was your source for your quote above.

are you really this blindly arrogant what you posted was plagiarized ,you have yet to credit the real authors.
not only that the "facts" you speak of are from creationist sites.
they are pseudoscience steaming piles of false premise religious dogma.
not facts. the quote below proves this:

"What I stated was a known fact and I read it with many different creationists sources but confirmed their claims before posting it". YWC

confirming bullshit with bullshit is still bullshit.