Definitive Proof that GOD Exists?

[daws101]

AVG-JOE: The need for religion (and other 'life after death' belief systems) can be summed up in three little words:

Fear of Death.

Well, fear of a lot of things. But one should not forget the social aspects of religion -- shmoozing is important, not to mention cheating the rubes of their money and possessions.

A lot of religion can be summed up in two points :

1. Marx's dictum : "Religion is the opium of the masses."

2. Churches are the country clubs of the poor · · [that's mine]

.

what about the rich churches? the Mormons come to mind.
fun fact the LDS church own the worlds largest cattle ranch.

 

[Boss]

Nope. Fear of death is the motivation.

Hey, hardhead... you need to provide some evidence of this claim, because it DEFIES nature. No other living thing is so worried about death that it creates a security blanket. Nothing! There has never been such an example in all of history, regarding any form of life. What you are presuming, has NO BASIS!

 

[Hollie]

A nation that prays to God for true guidance will receive true guidance. Proof positive of God. A person who prays for true guidance from God will receive the very same. A person who does not believe in God will not ask for guidance and will receive none.

You forgot to append "because I say so" to your comment.

 

[Boss]

AVG-JOE: The need for religion (and other 'life after death' belief systems) can be summed up in three little words:

Fear of Death.

Well, fear of a lot of things. But one should not forget the social aspects of religion -- shmoozing is important, not to mention cheating the rubes of their money and possessions.

A lot of religion can be summed up in two points :

1. Marx's dictum : "Religion is the opium of the masses."

2. Churches are the country clubs of the poor · · [that's mine]

.

what about the rich churches? the Mormons come to mind.
fun fact the LDS church own the worlds largest cattle ranch.

LDS charities also provide more humanitarian aid to more people worldwide, than ANY OTHER ORGANIZATION ON THE PLANET, INCLUDING THE RED CROSS!

...So you can now have a big tall glass of STFU!

 

[numan]

AVG-JOE: The need for religion (and other 'life after death' belief systems) can be summed up in three little words:

Fear of Death.

Well, fear of a lot of things. But one should not forget the social aspects of religion -- shmoozing is important, not to mention cheating the rubes of their money and possessions.

A lot of religion can be summed up in two points :

1. Marx's dictum : "Religion is the opium of the masses."

2. Churches are the country clubs of the poor · · [that's mine]

what about the rich churches? the Mormons come to mind.
fun fact the LDS church own the worlds largest cattle ranch.

One would be surprised if scamming cults were not rich.

Of course, the scammers at the top return as little as they can to their "useful idiots" -- generally, very little bread and a lot of circuses.
.

 

[numan]

LDS charities also provide more humanitarian aid to more people worldwide, than ANY OTHER ORGANIZATION ON THE PLANET, INCLUDING THE RED CROSS!

...So you can now have a big tall glass of STFU!

Methinks thou dost protest too much.

I wonder if "Boss" [another clue?] is a former, or presently practising, Mormon?

That might explain his absurd over-confidence that he has proven the contention of his opening posting.

I mean, they actually claim that the Mayas were Post-Exilic Jews!!

.

 

[daws101]

Well, fear of a lot of things. But one should not forget the social aspects of religion -- shmoozing is important, not to mention cheating the rubes of their money and possessions.

A lot of religion can be summed up in two points :

1. Marx's dictum : "Religion is the opium of the masses."

2. Churches are the country clubs of the poor · · [that's mine]

.

what about the rich churches? the Mormons come to mind.
fun fact the LDS church own the worlds largest cattle ranch.

LDS charities also provide more humanitarian aid to more people worldwide, than ANY OTHER ORGANIZATION ON THE PLANET, INCLUDING THE RED CROSS!

...So you can now have a big tall glass of STFU!

you must have been reading one of their flyers...
btw the red cross does not recruit during disasters the Mormons do...they're not in it for the general good, it's PR.

 

[Boss]

You forgot to append "because I say so" to your comment.

Throughout the thread, this has been a popular meme. Those of you who continue to deny spiritual nature, offer absolutely NO EVIDENCE to support your claims, then you accuse your adversaries of "because I say so" when they are the only ones presenting evidence. So do we need to just start amending YOUR commentary with this meme as well? Or can we grow the **** up and try to have an adult conversation here?

 

[daws101]

LDS charities also provide more humanitarian aid to more people worldwide, than ANY OTHER ORGANIZATION ON THE PLANET, INCLUDING THE RED CROSS!

...So you can now have a big tall glass of STFU!

Methinks thou dost protest too much.

I wonder if "Boss" [another clue?] is a former, or presently practising, Mormon?

That might explain his absurd over-confidence that he has proven the contention of his opening posting.

I mean, they actually claim that the Mayas were Post-Exilic Jews!!

you're singing to the choir on that one.
they also believe the garden of Eden is in Missouri.....

 

[Hollie]

Nope. Fear of death is the motivation.

Hey, hardhead... you need to provide some evidence of this claim, because it DEFIES nature. No other living thing is so worried about death that it creates a security blanket. Nothing! There has never been such an example in all of history, regarding any form of life. What you are presuming, has NO BASIS!

Settle down, sweetie. I'm here to help you learn. If you need evidence that religions use fear as a motivational tool, threats of eternal proportions abound in your bibles.

Secondly, humans are endowed with a sentient knowledge of "self", "mortality" and "community" as a result of higher brain function. That is why humans have a 70,000 year record of building religions and gods, and why some have exploited those fears and superstitions.

As to threats and warnings in “holy texts”, of course they’re there. Their purpose is to control those gullible enough to believe a supernatural entity will cause you burn in hell for not kowtowing to the men who wrote the book. All three Abrahamic religions use a form of mind control, (fear) to gain and keep their members. Christianity uses heaven and hell, the concept of sin, a corrupted nature no one can escape, the requirement of a savior to ameliorate the gap between gods and men.

Reincarnation is the device used by Buddhism and Hinduism, wherein the "punishment" is a repeatable life that would stress the soul in ways it stressed others in its previous life. Every religion cloaks itself under dynamics which affects commercial life (tithing for instance), educational (teaching the doctrine of the religion is inerrant even in the face of overwhelming proof contrary to the religious doctrine), and psychological (gods with a vested interest in the behaviors of men, who can see their sins, who are able to mete out justice -- all of these are severe and inescapable mental leveraging that dictate human behavior-- i.e., psychologies).

Live in wrenching fear of gods and demons if you wish. Or – just revise your religion and it’s gods to make them whatever you would like them to be. Most people do precisely that.

 

[Hollie]

You forgot to append "because I say so" to your comment.

Throughout the thread, this has been a popular meme. Those of you who continue to deny spiritual nature, offer absolutely NO EVIDENCE to support your claims, then you accuse your adversaries of "because I say so" when they are the only ones presenting evidence. So do we need to just start amending YOUR commentary with this meme as well? Or can we grow the **** up and try to have an adult conversation here?

You mistake your goofy, "because I say so", demands as being relevant.

 

[Boss]

you must have been reading one of their flyers...
btw the red cross does not recruit during disasters the Mormons do...they're not in it for the general good, it's PR.

Nope. When Romney was running for president, I researched LDS, and found this fun fact.

I have no idea what you mean by "recruiting" and how LDS differs from the Red Cross. Seems to me, the Red Cross recruits people to help whenever a disaster strikes.

 

[Boss]

LDS charities also provide more humanitarian aid to more people worldwide, than ANY OTHER ORGANIZATION ON THE PLANET, INCLUDING THE RED CROSS!

...So you can now have a big tall glass of STFU!

Methinks thou dost protest too much.

I wonder if "Boss" [another clue?] is a former, or presently practising, Mormon?

That might explain his absurd over-confidence that he has proven the contention of his opening posting.

I mean, they actually claim that the Mayas were Post-Exilic Jews!!

.

Yes, I fully understand you all want me to be some religious nutcase, so you can then turn this topic into a theocratic debate. I'm not a Mormon, I do not belong to any organized religion, and I think most organized religions misinterpret god. Religious people call me a dyed-in-the-wool Atheist.

What you mistakenly perceive as "protest" is merely me, responding to idiots who want to take pot shots at religion. You've got to stop reading stuff into what I say, and believing I have some hidden religious agenda. I have no reason to hide anything here.

Look... the basic logic here, doesn't even make any sense. I have repeatedly stated that I am not a Christian and don't believe in the Bible. Now... IF I am really a secret Christian, lying to you about that, I have condemned myself to hell for eternity, according to the Bible. Why in the hell would I condemn myself to hell for all of eternity, just to fool an idiot on a message board? Makes no sense at all, does it?

 

[daws101]

you must have been reading one of their flyers...
btw the red cross does not recruit during disasters the Mormons do...they're not in it for the general good, it's PR.

Nope. When Romney was running for president, I researched LDS, and found this fun fact.

I have no idea what you mean by "recruiting" and how LDS differs from the Red Cross. Seems to me, the Red Cross recruits people to help whenever a disaster strikes.

yep...I grew up in the Mormon church...and saw recruiting first hand.
the red cross asks for "volunteers" the Mormons attempt to recruit new members every chance they get, it's part of they're doctrine.
so somebody's talking out their ass and it not me .

 

[AVG-JOE]

AVG-JOE: The need for religion (and other 'life after death' belief systems) can be summed up in three little words:

Fear of Death.

Well, fear of a lot of things. But one should not forget the social aspects of religion -- shmoozing is important, not to mention cheating the rubes of their money and possessions.

A lot of religion can be summed up in two points :

1. Marx's dictum : "Religion is the opium of the masses."

2. Churches are the country clubs of the poor · · [that's mine]

.

Great... Let's see if we can prop up religion once more, so that we can kick it in the teeth again, because we just haven't had our fill yet, right? I understand why Marx had disdain for religion, you have to rid man of spiritual thought in order to have them worship statist government instead. But why do so many people in this thread, continue to conflate human spirituality with religion, which the spirituality fostered?

If humans "fear death" and you are correct about god and spiritual nature not existing, then it is a totally irrational and illogical fear. Why would humans (or any living thing) develop a totally irrational and illogical fear? Where did that "evolve" from? More importantly, why would this irrational and illogical fear persist for the entirety of the species, when no similar anomaly exists anywhere else in nature?

It seems to me, the "age of enlightenment" and development of philosophy, would have taken the place of all our irrational and illogical fears, and we would have abandon the silly attribute of spirituality. But, nope... 95% of humans still believe in something greater than self.... silly Monkeys!

Which came first, Human spirituality or Monkey religion? The chicken or the egg?


Silly indeed

 

[AVG-JOE]

Nope. Fear of death is the motivation.

Hey, hardhead... you need to provide some evidence of this claim, because it DEFIES nature. No other living thing is so worried about death that it creates a security blanket. Nothing! There has never been such an example in all of history, regarding any form of life. What you are presuming, has NO BASIS!

How do you figure?

The context of the 'fear of death' quote is undoubtably human spirituality, so no other life forms are in play. The evidence presented is the plethora of religions that Monkeys have to choose from.

 

[Boss]

Nope. Fear of death is the motivation.

Hey, hardhead... you need to provide some evidence of this claim, because it DEFIES nature. No other living thing is so worried about death that it creates a security blanket. Nothing! There has never been such an example in all of history, regarding any form of life. What you are presuming, has NO BASIS!

Settle down, sweetie. I'm here to help you learn. If you need evidence that religions use fear as a motivational tool, threats of eternal proportions abound in your bibles.

And I am here to help you learn, sweetie. This isn't about religion, it's about the attribute of human spirituality. You maintain it is born out of fear, and I argue that you have not made that case. Furthermore, it defies nature to make such a claim. These "fears" humans have, which no other living thing has, are the byproducts of our spiritual connection, which no other living things have. Perhaps you can argue that our spiritual connection manifested into 'religions of fear', I don't have a problem with that argument, but that's not what you claimed.

Secondly, humans are endowed with a sentient knowledge of "self", "mortality" and "community" as a result of higher brain function. That is why humans have a 70,000 year record of building religions and gods, and why some have exploited those fears and superstitions.

This is simply not supported by nature. There is simply nothing about our brain and how it functions, that is physically different from other upper primates. Yet we see absolutely no signs of other species even being interested in spirituality, even the ones who share 98% of our DNA, and whose brain function is exactly the same as our own. Our higher level of success and achievement, with relatively the same brain as a chimpanzee, is made possible because of our spiritual connection, which the chimp doesn't possess.

As to threats and warnings in “holy texts”, of course they’re there. Their purpose is to control those gullible enough to believe a supernatural entity will cause you burn in hell for not kowtowing to the men who wrote the book. All three Abrahamic religions use a form of mind control, (fear) to gain and keep their members. Christianity uses heaven and hell, the concept of sin, a corrupted nature no one can escape, the requirement of a savior to ameliorate the gap between gods and men.

Reincarnation is the device used by Buddhism and Hinduism, wherein the "punishment" is a repeatable life that would stress the soul in ways it stressed others in its previous life. Every religion cloaks itself under dynamics which affects commercial life (tithing for instance), educational (teaching the doctrine of the religion is inerrant even in the face of overwhelming proof contrary to the religious doctrine), and psychological (gods with a vested interest in the behaviors of men, who can see their sins, who are able to mete out justice -- all of these are severe and inescapable mental leveraging that dictate human behavior-- i.e., psychologies).

Live in wrenching fear of gods and demons if you wish. Or – just revise your religion and it’s gods to make them whatever you would like them to be. Most people do precisely thst.

Again, you rip into a long-winded rant about organized religions, which are the byproduct of human spirituality. We can get into a long debate over why religion relies on fear to establish an organization around spiritual belief, but this doesn't refute the fact that humans spiritually connect. In fact, it merely reinforces the point. I imagine, it wasn't long after man discovered his ability to connect spiritually, he began working on a way to instill this attribute in other men. This resulted in a method of spiritual practice or ritual, and advanced to include dogma and anecdotes to motivate a healthy spiritual compliance...thus, religions were born.

Get your head out of your butt and try to understand, religion followed human spirituality! The "fears of death" and all the other fears man has, followed human spirituality! The advancement of our species and what makes us vastly different from any other living thing, is a result of our ability to spiritually connect.

 

[Boss]

Nope. Fear of death is the motivation.

Hey, hardhead... you need to provide some evidence of this claim, because it DEFIES nature. No other living thing is so worried about death that it creates a security blanket. Nothing! There has never been such an example in all of history, regarding any form of life. What you are presuming, has NO BASIS!

How do you figure?

The context of the 'fear of death' quote is undoubtably human spirituality, so no other life forms are in play. The evidence presented is the plethora of religions that Monkeys have to choose from.

Fear of death is NOT the motivation for human spiritual belief. It is motivated by human spirituality. The cart is ahead of the horse. This is why Hollie can find no other example in nature to confirm this illogical viewpoint.

 

[AVG-JOE]

Hey, hardhead... you need to provide some evidence of this claim, because it DEFIES nature. No other living thing is so worried about death that it creates a security blanket. Nothing! There has never been such an example in all of history, regarding any form of life. What you are presuming, has NO BASIS!

How do you figure?

The context of the 'fear of death' quote is undoubtably human spirituality, so no other life forms are in play. The evidence presented is the plethora of religions that Monkeys have to choose from.

Fear of death is NOT the motivation for human spiritual belief. It is motivated by human spirituality. The cart is ahead of the horse. This is why Hollie can find no other example in nature to confirm this illogical viewpoint.

In the grand scheme of things, does it matter?

Religion is born of the fear that results from the comprehension of spiritual possibilities, including the very real possibility that the one life known of is the only one a Monkey gets.

The 'Great Unknown' includes the spiritual possibilities that death is a reset button, AND death as the true end.

Unknown. Unknown. Unknown.

As long as what awaits Monkeys beyond the door of death remains unknown, so will human spirituality and religion remain wildly diverse conglomerations of questions and theories.

Is that fuzzy feeling that a Monkey gets proof that a spiritual world exists? It sure as hell does for the Monkey who feels the connection! And the rest of us owe that speculation a modicum of respect, if for no other reason than to be able to demand a bit of respect for our own silly speculations at what awaits a Monkey when a meeting with Death is on the old appointment calendar.

That's right... I said ALL religion is naught but theories - step 1 in banding all our little tribes of Monkeys into a community capable of reaching for the stars.

 

[Ropey]

How do you figure?

The context of the 'fear of death' quote is undoubtably human spirituality, so no other life forms are in play. The evidence presented is the plethora of religions that Monkeys have to choose from.

Fear of death is NOT the motivation for human spiritual belief. It is motivated by human spirituality. The cart is ahead of the horse. This is why Hollie can find no other example in nature to confirm this illogical viewpoint.

In the grand scheme of things, does it matter?

Religion is born of the fear that results from the comprehension of spiritual possibilities, including the very real possibility that the one life known of is the only one a Monkey gets.

The 'Great Unknown' includes the spiritual possibilities that death is a reset button, AND death as the true end.

Unknown. Unknown. Unknown.

As long as what awaits Monkeys beyond the door of death remains unknown, so will human spirituality and religion remain wildly diverse conglomerations of questions and theories.

Is that fuzzy feeling that a Monkey gets proof that a spiritual world exists? It sure as hell does for the Monkey who feels the connection! And the rest of us owe that speculation a modicum of respect, if for no other reason than to be able to demand a bit of respect for our own silly speculations at what awaits a Monkey when a meeting with Death is on the old appointment calendar.

That's right... I said ALL religion is naught but theories - step 1 in banding all our little tribes of Monkeys into a community capable of reaching for the stars.

The definitive word is "Reaching".

All together now, reach for the sun.