Definitive Proof that GOD Exists?

[JimBowie1958]

still no "cause" but lots of effect.
if you take out the god crutch would spirituality still stand?

If you cannot see that the YWH of Judaism/Christianity/Islam is not a crutch, then there isn't much help for you.

 

[daws101]

still no "cause" but lots of effect.
if you take out the god crutch would spirituality still stand?

If you cannot see that the YWH of Judaism/Christianity/Islam is not a crutch, then there isn't much help for you.

what I see is they/ IT ARE A CRUTCH.
any one who says they are not the equivalent of addicts.

 

[JimBowie1958]

still no "cause" but lots of effect.
if you take out the god crutch would spirituality still stand?

If you cannot see that the YWH of Judaism/Christianity/Islam is not a crutch, then there isn't much help for you.

what I see is they/ IT ARE A CRUTCH.
any one who says they are not the equivalent of addicts.

So you know God is a crutch because anyone that thinks different is an addict? lolol

Tautology much?

God has enlightened mankind and His existence has shown us that the universe is rational, orderly and ruled by His laws that we now refer to as the laws of science, only there is no thing called science that can authorize laws as it is only an abstraction.

God is not an abstraction. God does rule.

 

[daws101]

If you cannot see that the YWH of Judaism/Christianity/Islam is not a crutch, then there isn't much help for you.

what I see is they/ IT ARE A CRUTCH.
any one who says they are not the equivalent of addicts.

So you know God is a crutch because anyone that thinks different is an addict? lolol

Tautology much?

God has enlightened mankind and His existence has shown us that the universe is rational, orderly and ruled by His laws that we now refer to as the laws of science, only there is no thing called science that can authorize laws as it is only an abstraction.

God is not an abstraction. God does rule.

spoken like the truly indoctrinated.

 

[Boss]

We're not like the monkeys, Joe, that's the whole point here. We possess an attribute the monkeys never will have, the ability to make a spiritual connection to something greater than self. It's not the product of evolution, nothing else in nature does it.

Perhaps it is simply that our large, complex and unstable brains cause us to be more deluded, and more deeply deluded, about many more things than other animals.

Perhaps, but that would completely contradict Darwin.

 

[Boss]

what I see is they/ IT ARE A CRUTCH.
any one who says they are not the equivalent of addicts.

So you know God is a crutch because anyone that thinks different is an addict? lolol

Tautology much?

God has enlightened mankind and His existence has shown us that the universe is rational, orderly and ruled by His laws that we now refer to as the laws of science, only there is no thing called science that can authorize laws as it is only an abstraction.

God is not an abstraction. God does rule.

spoken like the truly indoctrinated.

Here's your problem: 95% of all humans who've roamed the planet, were "indoctrinated" spiritually, even in extreme conditions, where the 'indoctrinators' were forbidden or non-existent, and even under penalty of death.

Meanwhile, you belong to the group who claim to be Nihilist, which make up the other 5%, regardless of how much effort you put into destroying spirituality. Chances are, if you are over 21, there was some point in your life where you were among the "indoctrinated," but have since adopted this new philosophy of belief in nothing.

 

[daws101]

So you know God is a crutch because anyone that thinks different is an addict? lolol

Tautology much?

God has enlightened mankind and His existence has shown us that the universe is rational, orderly and ruled by His laws that we now refer to as the laws of science, only there is no thing called science that can authorize laws as it is only an abstraction.

God is not an abstraction. God does rule.

spoken like the truly indoctrinated.

Here's your problem: 95% of all humans who've roamed the planet, were "indoctrinated" spiritually, even in extreme conditions, where the 'indoctrinators' were forbidden or non-existent, and even under penalty of death.

Meanwhile, you belong to the group who claim to be Nihilist, which make up the other 5%, regardless of how much effort you put into destroying spirituality. Chances are, if you are over 21, there was some point in your life where you were among the "indoctrinated," but have since adopted this new philosophy of belief in nothing.

so now you claim to be psychic?
every thing you said about me is absolutely wrong.
your hubris is unzipped.

 

[JimBowie1958]

what I see is they/ IT ARE A CRUTCH.
any one who says they are not the equivalent of addicts.

So you know God is a crutch because anyone that thinks different is an addict? lolol

Tautology much?

God has enlightened mankind and His existence has shown us that the universe is rational, orderly and ruled by His laws that we now refer to as the laws of science, only there is no thing called science that can authorize laws as it is only an abstraction.

God is not an abstraction. God does rule.

spoken like the truly indoctrinated.

more ad hominem; why don't you just shut the **** up and stop acting like an idiot?

 

[BreezeWood]

We're not like the monkeys, Joe, that's the whole point here. We possess an attribute the monkeys never will have, the ability to make a spiritual connection to something greater than self. It's not the product of evolution, nothing else in nature does it.

Perhaps it is simply that our large, complex and unstable brains cause us to be more deluded, and more deeply deluded, about many more things than other animals.

Yeah, because all the buildings, monuments, ships, aircraft, power generators, hospitals, etc, etc were all made by critters much more stable than human beings are. /sarcasm

Dude, stop drinking the hate-humans Kool Aid.

.... because all the buildings, monuments, ships, aircraft, power generators, hospitals, etc, etc

were all made by critters much more stable than human beings are. /sarcasm


as far as Spirituality, the moths have it over your buildings, hands down.

 

[JimBowie1958]

spoken like the truly indoctrinated.

Here's your problem: 95% of all humans who've roamed the planet, were "indoctrinated" spiritually, even in extreme conditions, where the 'indoctrinators' were forbidden or non-existent, and even under penalty of death.

Meanwhile, you belong to the group who claim to be Nihilist, which make up the other 5%, regardless of how much effort you put into destroying spirituality. Chances are, if you are over 21, there was some point in your life where you were among the "indoctrinated," but have since adopted this new philosophy of belief in nothing.

so now you claim to be psychic?
every thing you said about me is absolutely wrong.
your hubris is unzipped.

I don't need anything more than the posts you have made on this thread to see that you have no facts, no logic, no insight, only ad hominem, and half-baked long distance psychobabble.

In short, you are full of shit.

 

[JimBowie1958]

Perhaps it is simply that our large, complex and unstable brains cause us to be more deluded, and more deeply deluded, about many more things than other animals.

Yeah, because all the buildings, monuments, ships, aircraft, power generators, hospitals, etc, etc were all made by critters much more stable than human beings are. /sarcasm

Dude, stop drinking the hate-humans Kool Aid.

.... because all the buildings, monuments, ships, aircraft, power generators, hospitals, etc, etc

were all made by critters much more stable than human beings are. /sarcasm


as far as Spirituality, the moths have it over your buildings, hands down.

That is bullshit and you know it.

Why do so many anti-Christs these days use these idiotic lines of thought to justify their refusal to accept what is plain to 99% of the human population?

Answer: because they are not athiests/agnostics because they have made a carefully investigated and weighed decision. It's because they just could not care a shit less.

 

[Boss]

spoken like the truly indoctrinated.

Here's your problem: 95% of all humans who've roamed the planet, were "indoctrinated" spiritually, even in extreme conditions, where the 'indoctrinators' were forbidden or non-existent, and even under penalty of death.

Meanwhile, you belong to the group who claim to be Nihilist, which make up the other 5%, regardless of how much effort you put into destroying spirituality. Chances are, if you are over 21, there was some point in your life where you were among the "indoctrinated," but have since adopted this new philosophy of belief in nothing.

so now you claim to be psychic?
every thing you said about me is absolutely wrong.
your hubris is unzipped.

Not psychic, just observant.

It's funny how "Atheists" get defensive about being called Nihilists. However, belief in God is black or white, you either DO or DON'T, and you are on record here. Most Nihilists did not begin their lives this way, it was a learned behavior... or "indoctrination," as it were. It was just interesting to me, you made the choice to refer to those who are spiritual as "indoctrinated" when it's actually the other way around.

 

[numan]

We're not like the monkeys, Joe, that's the whole point here. We possess an attribute the monkeys never will have, the ability to make a spiritual connection to something greater than self. It's not the product of evolution, nothing else in nature does it.

Perhaps it is simply that our large, complex and unstable brains cause us to be more deluded, and more deeply deluded, about many more things than other animals.

Perhaps, but that would completely contradict Darwin.

To justify such a silly non sequitur, you would need to show how it would contradict Darwin -- either "completely" or partially.
.

 

[Boss]

I don't need anything more than the posts you have made on this thread to see that you have no facts, no logic, no insight, only ad hominem, and half-baked long distance psychobabble.

In short, you are full of shit.

Jim, if you read through this thread, you will find them routinely contradicting their own beloved science and even their 'prophet' Darwin. They will defy logic and rationality, and never even bat an eye. It doesn't seem to matter because they have developed a little 'support group' who will chime in to reaffirm their disbeliefs, and this gives them a sense of empowerment.

Nothing in science supports their claims, but this never matters, because they can always hide behind the fact that science can't prove a negative. (Nevermind that physical science also cannot prove or disprove spiritual nature.) The ONLY explanation they have for the creation of the physical universe, is a theory that simply defies physics. Matter doesn't create matter, yet it had to happen for the universe to have started as they claim. Not only did this have to happen, but it had to be caused by a force outside of the physical universe, since the physical universe could not have created itself. These logical questions are dismissed, as they continue to insist the 'miracle of nature' is responsible for everything.

 

[Boss]

Perhaps it is simply that our large, complex and unstable brains cause us to be more deluded, and more deeply deluded, about many more things than other animals.

Perhaps, but that would completely contradict Darwin.

To justify such a silly non sequitur, you would need to show how it would contradict Darwin -- either "completely" or partially.
.

Well, because you are assigning an undesirable attribute which would not be conducive with survival of the species, and would have resulted in the humans with inferior working deluded minds to become extinct, as less deluded upper primates prevailed. It's relatively simple.

 

[numan]

Perhaps, but that would completely contradict Darwin.

To justify such a silly non sequitur, you would need to show how it would contradict Darwin -- either "completely" or partially.

Well, because you are assigning an undesirable attribute which would not be conducive with survival of the species, and would have resulted in the humans with inferior working deluded minds to become extinct, as less deluded upper primates prevailed. It's relatively simple.

Thank you for demonstrating the crudity of your understanding of Evolution.

It is quite possible, and even common, for an adaptation to have both positive and negative influences on survival. For a trait to survive and be passed on, it is sufficient for the positive effects to outweigh the negative, compared to not having the trait at all.

As long as a big, complex, unstable brain does more to enhance our survival, despite certain negative propensities, then it is likely to endure.

An obvious example of what I am writing about is Sickle Cell Anaemia.

Sickle Cell Anaemia is very disadvantageous in areas where malaria is not common -- yet the genes for this trait have not only survived, but increased their numbers and spread very far out of their African homeland -- because human civilization, which many people imagine to be advantageous, has been such an efficient spreader of malaria.
.

THE OLD MAN ON THE FRONTIER LOSES A HORSE (Sai Weng Shi Ma)

Among the people who lived close to the border, there was a man who was adept as a sage. The man owned a mare which one day escaped and went off into barbarian territory. Everyone pitied him, but the old man said : "what makes you think it is not good fortune?"

Several months later, his horse returned, with a superb barbarian stallion following her. Everyone congratulated the old man. But he said: "what makes you think this cannot be a misfortune?"

The family was richer by a good horse, and the old man's son liked to ride it. One day the son fell off and broke his hip and was lamed for life. Everyone pitied him, but the old man said: "what makes you think this is not good fortune?"

One year later, there was a large incursion of barbarians into the borderlands. Every able-bodied young man was drafted and went off to war --- but the old man's son was rejected on account of his lameness. Of those who went off, nine out of ten were killed. The son was spared because he was lame, so he and his father had each other to rely on for support.

So good fortune changes into bad fortune; bad fortune changes into good fortune. There is no limit to transformation; its depth cannot be fathomed.
---Huai Nanzi
.

 

[daws101]

So you know God is a crutch because anyone that thinks different is an addict? lolol

Tautology much?

God has enlightened mankind and His existence has shown us that the universe is rational, orderly and ruled by His laws that we now refer to as the laws of science, only there is no thing called science that can authorize laws as it is only an abstraction.

God is not an abstraction. God does rule.

spoken like the truly indoctrinated.

more ad hominem; why don't you just shut the **** up and stop acting like an idiot?

that's mighty Christian of you stranger!

 

[daws101]

Here's your problem: 95% of all humans who've roamed the planet, were "indoctrinated" spiritually, even in extreme conditions, where the 'indoctrinators' were forbidden or non-existent, and even under penalty of death.

Meanwhile, you belong to the group who claim to be Nihilist, which make up the other 5%, regardless of how much effort you put into destroying spirituality. Chances are, if you are over 21, there was some point in your life where you were among the "indoctrinated," but have since adopted this new philosophy of belief in nothing.

so now you claim to be psychic?
every thing you said about me is absolutely wrong.
your hubris is unzipped.

Not psychic, just observant.

It's funny how "Atheists" get defensive about being called Nihilists. However, belief in God is black or white, you either DO or DON'T, and you are on record here. Most Nihilists did not begin their lives this way, it was a learned behavior... or "indoctrination," as it were. It was just interesting to me, you made the choice to refer to those who are spiritual as "indoctrinated" when it's actually the other way around.

more specious assumption.
how do you become indoctrinated not believing ?
no need to answer as what ever you say will be subjective and bias.

 

[AVG-JOE]

But there are different kinds of unknowns.

Some unknowns are known categorically, such as how many miles are there between Miami and the location of the next meteorite landing.

Some unknowns are not even known categorically, such as what possible events might disrupt the construction of a new, never been done before, machine. As an engineer, I can assure you that no process is ever executed exactly according to plan.

Some unknowns are unknown personally though it may be known by others, like lookup information you haven't looked up yet, or a set of experiences you have not yet experienced and so cannot conceive of what some specific experience really is because it is completely unknown to you.

Some unknowns are unknown only because our technology and/or conceptions of the universe are not adequate to understand them, like radio waves were unknown to the 18th century sciences. Radio waves still existed but no one was yet able to perceive them due to lack of ability.

So if the existence of God is an unknown to you, perhaps a more relevant question is 'Why is this an unknown?' Is it unknown because you don't have the ability to perceive God while others may, or is it because you haven't bothered to look into the matter? The latter describes most of the agnostics I personally know; it simply doesn't bother them one way or the other and the whole subject is tldr, lol.

Turn the tables, Brother... How can you be so ******* cock-sure?

The ancient stories? Give me a break!

Don't know about cock sure, but there is a high level of certitude.

I know that time as we know it can not be of infinite duration.

I know that there has to be a cause to everything that originates within time/space, except for some person/force that exists outside our time and space to instigate our universe.

I know that I have consistently seen more joy in the lives of those that follow God's laws rather than those who do not.

These are enough for me though there is much more.

I'll stand by what I said. Any Monkey who tells you he KNOWS what happens at death is the Monkey deceived.

You really shouldn't talk to strange monkeys, or didn't your parents teach you that?

O.k. - you have a 'high level of certitude' that's not quite 'cock-sure' that you know what happens at death.

We'll get to exactly what that is after you tell me why you have such high confidence in the stories you've been told.


________________________
As for talking to strange monkeys, that's never going to happen - monkeys can't talk.

Talking to strange Monkeys on the other hand is like a part time job for me here on the Message Board, and I enjoy it. That fine bit of parental advice regarding not talking to strangers is generally reserved for young Monkeys... once a Monkey matures, talking to strangers becomes part of everyday life as a full-grown Monkey.

 

[daws101]

Yeah, because all the buildings, monuments, ships, aircraft, power generators, hospitals, etc, etc were all made by critters much more stable than human beings are. /sarcasm

Dude, stop drinking the hate-humans Kool Aid.

.... because all the buildings, monuments, ships, aircraft, power generators, hospitals, etc, etc

were all made by critters much more stable than human beings are. /sarcasm


as far as Spirituality, the moths have it over your buildings, hands down.

That is bullshit and you know it.

Why do so many anti-Christs these days use these idiotic lines of thought to justify their refusal to accept what is plain to 99% of the human population?

Answer: because they are not athiests/agnostics because they have made a carefully investigated and weighed decision. It's because they just could not care a shit less.

btw 99% of the earth population are NOT Christian

There are said to be up to 2.1 billion Christians in the world. This includes those who are registered in some European countries as members of the state Church, on an opt-out basis - in other words, in some countries you are registered as a Christian unless you take the trouble to inform the state otherwise. Not all Christians are practising Christians in the sense of regular church attendance, and in some countries fewer than 5 per cent of the estimated Christian population actually attend church regularly.

The total number of practising Christians must exceed 85 million and is probably very much higher. On the other hand, it is certainly much less than 1 billion people.
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