Declassified documents show how US lied to Russia about NATO in 1990s

[ESay]

For example, to be more or less sure, that the USA won't do anything extremely stupid to prevent this disintegration.
I don't think that the USA are going to disintegrate (the deep state rather send Biden to Dallas than allow him to disintegrate the USA).

It would be a quite lame explanation, to put it mildly.

 

[Siberian]

Has it ever occurred in your mind that if the US is going to disintegrate in less than 10 years term, then why your czar wants longterm security guarantees from them?

he does not.
his ultimatum is humiliating for the US, he demands to withdraw from Europe and become a regional power.
i. e. Putin does not expect it to be accepted on this stage, quite the opposite, he expects it to be rejected to further give Putin an exuse to put the US in a situation when it loses face, and consequently, influence, allies, power and everything else in due course.

I may be wrong of course but I expect that this year we will come to another Cuban missile crisis, but this time Putin will not compromise until the US withdraws to situation of 1991. I. e. will give up what the US gained in Eastern Europe since collapse of the USSR.
Most probably we will see direct milirary confrontation between the US and Russia somewhere.
maybe we'll sink their carrier or something. first will sink a US or British ship which violates our naval border (in Crimea) and then a carrier after exchange of fire...

There is nothing what the US wants so much now than neutrality of Russia during coming US-China war.
Getting involved into a big war with Russia automatically means defeat of the US to China. While again war with Russia will not bring defeat of Russia, maximum the US can do fighting Russia is to spend most resourses to bring Russis go the level of Ukraine militarily, in 2-3 years of all out conventional war...

So, Putin holds balls of the US very tight and can squeze them any monent. He can punch, spit on Biden and Biden will keep smiling and keep proposing to meet Putin as soon as possible...
Because Ukraine failed to sacrifice itself and draw Russia into a regional conflict without direct American participation. Now Putin counter attacks...

I can't be sure, of course, it is just my assessment of the situation..

 

[Siberian]

For example, to be more or less sure, that the USA won't do anything extremely stupid to prevent this disintegration.
I don't think that the USA are going to disintegrate (the deep state rather send Biden to Dallas than allow him to disintegrate the USA).

Russians tend to be more conspiracy theorists than other nations, many of us underestimate objective Historic process and overestimate the role of individuals.

Biden is nobody, a puppet, but objective demographic and economic trends define the future, not individuals.

 

[ESay]

he does not.
his ultimatum is humiliating for the US, he demands to withdraw from Europe and become a regional power.
i. e. Putin does not expect it to be accepted on this stage, quite the opposite, he expects it to be rejected to further give Putin an exuse to put the US in a situation when it loses face, and consequently, influence, allies, power and everything else in due course.

I may be wrong of course but I expect that this year we will come to another Cuban missile crisis, but this time Putin will not compromise until the US withdraws to situation of 1991. I. e. will give up what the US gained in Eastern Europe since collapse of the USSR.
Most probably we will see direct milirary confrontation between the US and Russia somewhere.
maybe we'll sink their carrier or something. first will sink a US or British ship which violates our naval border (in Crimea) and then a carrier after exchange of fire...

There is nothing what the US wants so much now than neutrality of Russia during coming US-China war.
Getting involved into a big war with Russia automatically means defeat of the US to China. While again war with Russia will not bring defeat of Russia, maximum the US can do fighting Russia is to spend most resourses to bring Russis go the level of Ukraine militarily, in 2-3 years of all out conventional war...

So, Putin holds balls of the US very tight and can squeze them any monent. He can punch, spit on Biden and Biden will keep smiling and keep proposing to meet Putin as soon as possible...
Because Ukraine failed to sacrifice itself and draw Russia into a regional conflict without direct American participation. Now Putin counter attacks...

I can't be sure, of course, it is just my assessment of the situation..

Oh my goodness, what a mess. Of course the US won't withdraw to 1991 borders, and of course Russia isn't going to wage a war against the US. Damn it, you even didn't dare to punish Turkey militarily when they shot down your military jet.

Putin reminds me of a dog being chased into a corner. And he doesn't have any choice except of viciously barking. But no worries, he will be allowed to leave this corner.

 

[Siberian]

Oh my goodness, what a mess. Of course the US won't withdraw to 1991 borders, and of course Russia isn't going to wage a war against the US. Damn it, you even didn't dare to punish Turkey militarily when they shot down your military jet.

Putin reminds me of a dog being chased into a corner. And he doesn't have any choice except of viciously barking. But no worries, he will be allowed to leave this corner.

lol, Esay, are you a kid?
it is a wet dream of the US to get Russia involved in conflict with any of its neighbours. Not a surprise that pro-American Turkish military both made this provocation against Russia and made a coup against Erdogan.

It would make Russia spend resourses without gaining benefits.
Turkey is a piece of broken glass which can either become your weapon or harm you, you need to be careful and an artist, a wiseman and a super-experienced politician to use Turkey to your benefit.

Putin does. He kicked the US out of Syria, whose fate is decided by trio of Russia, Iran and Turkey. The US has no say there...

Ukraine has never been a player, it has always been a subject, so not understanding how international politics work is quite excusable for you...

This is like you lost Crimea, Putin was also a dog chased into the corner, right?

 

[ESay]

lol, Esay, are you a kid?
it is a wet dream of the US to get Russia involved in conflict with any of its neighbours. Not a surprise that pro-American Turkish military both made this provocation against Russia and made a coup against Erdogan.

It would make Russia spend resourses without gaining benefits.
Turkey is a piece of broken glass which can either become your weapon or harm you, you need to be careful and an artist, a wiseman and a super-experienced politician to use Turkey to your benefit.

Putin does. He kicked the US out of Syria, whose fate is decided by trio of Russia, Iran and Turkey. The US has no say there...

Ukraine has never been a player, it has always been a subject, so not understanding how international politics work is quite excusable for you...

This is like you lost Crimea, Putin was also a dog chased into the corner, right?

Yeah, it is very convenient to blame evil Turkish generals. But I want to inform you that the Turkish pilots were acting in line with Ahmed Davutoglu's order (then prime minister) to shoot down every jet breaching Turkish border.

Yeah, exactly, a cornered dog. A desperate move to secure the naval base.

 

[Siberian]

Yeah, it is very convenient to blame evil Turkish generals. But I want to inform you that the Turkish pilots were acting in line with Ahmed Davutoglu's order (then prime minister) to shoot down every jet breaching Turkish border.

Yeah, exactly, a cornered dog. A desperate move to secure the naval base.

I hope the US corner Putin one more time, maybe he will take back the rest of Russian lands from Ukraine..
or maybe whole Ukraine...

Esay, do Ukrainian dreams tend to get fullfilled?
what about becoming a second France what you dreamed of during collapse of USSR?

keep dreaming

 

[Silver Cat]

I hope the US corner Putin one more time, maybe he will take back the rest of Russian lands from Ukraine..
or maybe whole Ukraine...

Esay, do Ukrainian dreams tend to get fullfilled?
what about becoming a second France what you dreamed of during collapse of USSR?

keep dreaming

In 1991 they were dreaming about becoming a second France. In 2014 they were dreaming about becoming a second Poland. In 2022 they are dreaming about becoming a second Afghanistan.

 

[ESay]

I hope the US corner Putin one more time, maybe he will take back the rest of Russian lands from Ukraine..
or maybe whole Ukraine...

Esay, do Ukrainian dreams tend to get fullfilled?
what about becoming a second France what you dreamed of during collapse of USSR?

keep dreaming

At the times of collapse of the USSR I dreamed to get as much ice cream as I could eat.

It depends on what you consider as taking back Ukraine. A buffer zone will be created which will comprise of Ukraine, Belorussia and Moldova.

 

[Siberian]

At the times of collapse of the USSR I dreamed to get as much ice cream as I could eat.

It depends on what you consider as taking back Ukraine. A buffer zone will be created which will comprise of Ukraine, Belorussia and Moldova.

not at all, a buffer zone will be Westwards of Kerzon line.
I did not belived it first when it occured to me, but it really seems we're heading to restoration of USSR in new form.
Maybe as protectorates, maybe different republics will be on different level of integration (Novorossia will become a part of Russia), who knows..

The US will be busy with civil war. The EU will collapse.

With whome will Russia have buffer zone? With Germany? Obviously it will be closer to Germany than to Russia if there will be a buffer zone.. .

 

[ESay]

not at all, a buffer zone will be Westwards of Kerzon line.
I did not belived it first when it occured to me, but it really seems we're heading to restoration of USSR in new form.
Maybe as protectorates, maybe different republics will be on different level of integration (Novorossia will become a part of Russia), who knows..

The US will be busy with civil war. The EU will collapse.

With whome will Russia have buffer zone? With Germany? Obviously it will be closer to Germany than to Russia if there will be a buffer zone.. .

It seems I have to ask my question again. If there will be a collapse of the US any time soon, then why does your czar want longterm security guarantees from them?

A buffer zone between NATO and Russia, of course. It will include Ukraine, Belorussia and Moldova. Also, the US will agree not to put some weapons in the Baltic states and Poland in exchange of Russia 'demilitarizing' Kaliningrad oblast and some border regions. Also, the US will curb their military presence in the Baltic and Black seas.

From the Russian part, it should give guarantees of neutrality in possible the US-China conflict and curb its military cooperation with China.

That is my own vision of that, of course.

 

[Siberian]

lol, NATO...
without the US there will be no NATO

I can repeat my answer again, Putin's demand of guarantees is not a goal but a tool. Who can believe American guarantees, what a nonsense?
Putin just wants an excuse to roll out some measures which the US will not be able to counter and which will make the US lose face in front of its allies, and Biden administration in front of its citizens.

Maybe it will be permanently puting a 100 megaton underwater nuclear drone 20 miles away from New York, maybe, as I said, it will be sinking a US intruder ship - the move which will put the US in condition of chosing between war with Russia (and strategic defeat to China) and retreat.

Again, prior to the war with China the US cannot afford itself the war with Russia. Putin knows it, everybody knows it except you.

The goal of the US is to weaken Russia having ignited a Russian-Ukrainian, better - Ukraine+EU vs. Russia war., in which the US will not participate.

It will save resourses of AUKUS to set naval blocade of China, hoping that disruption of of its trade will explode Chine from within.

Just stupid Ukraine does not understand that it is a consumable resourse, to be spend in proper time to weaken Russia. You still think that having ignited the war in Donbass you will involve the US in destruction of Russia

 

[Siberian]

there will be no NATO in several years, as well as the EU, as well as the US in present form.

Civil war will be long in the US, probably 5 years or more, look at Syria, it is as much a mixed and ethnically complex country.

to ethnically cleanse all Latinos and Blacks from the North may take more than 10 years. especially if interested foreign powers will be helping Chechnya, or, sorry, Back and Latino separatists, oh, sorry, freedom fighters

So, the US will remain, of course, in Northern part of present USA..... in 15-20 years we may see coming back of the New USA in international arena...
How long did it take Russia to come back?
30 years.

 

[Siberian]

Esay, not to put too much hope on the US - read my explanation of US economic situation and perspectives in this thread, starting from post 45

Make your bet, when will stock market collapse?

Actually there are great ETFs for shorting the market... As well as Bull market ETFs. I really don't care which direction it moves so long as it does move. I can make money. Look at NUGT vs DUST. Both play either direction on gold and gold miners. KOLD and BOIL plays natural gas in...

www.usmessageboard.com

 

[ESay]

Esay, not to put too much hope on the US - read my explanation of US economic situation and perspectives in this thread, starting from post 45

Make your bet, when will stock market collapse?

Actually there are great ETFs for shorting the market... As well as Bull market ETFs. I really don't care which direction it moves so long as it does move. I can make money. Look at NUGT vs DUST. Both play either direction on gold and gold miners. KOLD and BOIL plays natural gas in...

www.usmessageboard.com

lol, NATO...
without the US there will be no NATO

I can repeat my answer again, Putin's demand of guarantees is not a goal but a tool. Who can believe American guarantees, what a nonsense?
Putin just wants an excuse to roll out some measures which the US will not be able to counter and which will make the US lose face in front of its allies, and Biden administration in front of its citizens.

Maybe it will be permanently puting a 100 megaton underwater nuclear drone 20 miles away from New York, maybe, as I said, it will be sinking a US intruder ship - the move which will put the US in condition of chosing between war with Russia (and strategic defeat to China) and retreat.

Again, prior to the war with China the US cannot afford itself the war with Russia. Putin knows it, everybody knows it except you.

The goal of the US is to weaken Russia having ignited a Russian-Ukrainian, better - Ukraine+EU vs. Russia war., in which the US will not participate.

It will save resourses of AUKUS to set naval blocade of China, hoping that disruption of of its trade will explode Chine from within.

Just stupid Ukraine does not understand that it is a consumable resourse, to be spend in proper time to weaken Russia. You still think that having ignited the war in Donbass you will involve the US in destruction of Russia

Well, there is no need to discuss that any further. I think your claims to be ridiculous, you think the same about mine. The time will show. I think this year will be interesting in the terms of political events.