Deception Rape?

[Skylar]

And which states do these laws exist in?

The OP saw the show, go ahead and ask him.

I did. He hasn't said.

If you don't know....how do you know its 'liberal' anything? It could be California. It could be Minnesota. It could be Texas.

Or....it could be none of the above, as no such laws may actually exist. Wouldn't it be best to know before you ubiquitously blame 'libs'?

I've been around long enough to know how much libs like to play the blame game and embrace the victimhood mentality. Any law close to that is definitely liberal. Life is full of chances, pick one and it fails, it's your fault. Live and learn.

Ah. So why burden yourself with evidence. Or even a passing understanding of the topic.

You can be combative about anything, can't you? This isn't one of those kind of topics. Just discuss the issue without making enemies out of everyone.

"Enemies"? You may be taking this board just a tad too seriously.

 

[saintmichaeldefendthem]

I'd have to know more about the laws in question and the States you're referring to. The description you've given wouldn't be rape by any conventional definition I've ever heard of.

This might help:

Rape by deception - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia

I don't know the legal definition of deception rape, or if there is legally such a thing, but, I knew it when I saw it.

My best friend lived for one thing, to charm his way into the pants of any and every girl he could, by any means necessary.

As I grew up, I parted ways with him, but, what he did was immoral, if not illegal.

There's too many shades of deception in the ballet of human sexual pairing to really draw a line anywhere. Most of what happens is just being a good salesman. We put on our best appearance, hide our shortcomings, and put on a show in hopes of getting lucky. When does that start becoming rape? That's why in the OP example, even in an extreme example of deliberate deception, the jury couldn't find a way to convict.

 

[Skylar]

I'd have to know more about the laws in question and the States you're referring to. The description you've given wouldn't be rape by any conventional definition I've ever heard of.

This might help:

Rape by deception - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia

I don't know the legal definition of deception rape, or if there is legally such a thing, but, I knew it when I saw it.

My best friend lived for one thing, to charm his way into the pants of any and every girl he could, by any means necessary.

As I grew up, I parted ways with him, but, what he did was immoral, if not illegal.

There's too many shades of deception in the ballet of human sexual pairing to really draw a line anywhere. Most of what happens is just being a good salesman. We put on our best appearance, hide our shortcomings, and put on a show in hopes of getting lucky. When does that start becoming rape? That's why in the OP example, even in an extreme example of deliberate deception, the jury couldn't find a way to convict.

When the person you're fucking thinks you're someone else. Like say, their boyfriend. Both cases of rape by deceit where when a man snuck into a bedroom and had sex with a woman while she thought it was her boyfriend.

That's pretty specific.

 

[Iceweasel]

The OP saw the show, go ahead and ask him.

I did. He hasn't said.

If you don't know....how do you know its 'liberal' anything? It could be California. It could be Minnesota. It could be Texas.

Or....it could be none of the above, as no such laws may actually exist. Wouldn't it be best to know before you ubiquitously blame 'libs'?

I've been around long enough to know how much libs like to play the blame game and embrace the victimhood mentality. Any law close to that is definitely liberal. Life is full of chances, pick one and it fails, it's your fault. Live and learn.

Ah. So why burden yourself with evidence. Or even a passing understanding of the topic.

You can be combative about anything, can't you? This isn't one of those kind of topics. Just discuss the issue without making enemies out of everyone.

"Enemies"? You may be taking this board just a tad too seriously.

Libs are nuts. How many times have couples parted and said they didn't even realize who the other person was until....

A law like that could be used at will by attorneys to play god, and get compensated pretty well in the process.

And which states do these laws exist in?

The OP saw the show, go ahead and ask him.

I did. He hasn't said.

If you don't know....how do you know its 'liberal' anything? It could be California. It could be Minnesota. It could be Texas.

Or....it could be none of the above, as no such laws may actually exist. Wouldn't it be best to know before you ubiquitously blame 'libs'?

I've been around long enough to know how much libs like to play the blame game and embrace the victimhood mentality. Any law close to that is definitely liberal. Life is full of chances, pick one and it fails, it's your fault. Live and learn.

Ah. So why burden yourself with evidence. Or even a passing understanding of the topic.

I do. I know assholes like you like the back of my hand. You admitted you don't know about the laws ...LOL.

 

[saintmichaeldefendthem]

I'd have to know more about the laws in question and the States you're referring to. The description you've given wouldn't be rape by any conventional definition I've ever heard of.

This might help:

Rape by deception - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia

I don't know the legal definition of deception rape, or if there is legally such a thing, but, I knew it when I saw it.

My best friend lived for one thing, to charm his way into the pants of any and every girl he could, by any means necessary.

As I grew up, I parted ways with him, but, what he did was immoral, if not illegal.

There's too many shades of deception in the ballet of human sexual pairing to really draw a line anywhere. Most of what happens is just being a good salesman. We put on our best appearance, hide our shortcomings, and put on a show in hopes of getting lucky. When does that start becoming rape? That's why in the OP example, even in an extreme example of deliberate deception, the jury couldn't find a way to convict.

When the person you're fucking thinks you're someone else. Like say, their boyfriend. Both cases of rape by deceit where when a man snuck into a bedroom and had sex with a woman while she thought it was her boyfriend.

That's pretty specific.

I thought you were downplaying that example.

 

[Iceweasel]

Impersonation. A man sneaking into a woman's bedroom at night and pretending to be her boyfriend in the dark.

Which has nothing to do with what the OP describes.

That isn't what we are discussing Skippy. Here's an example of liberalism on full parade:


Rape by fraud N.J. lawmaker introduces bill to make it a crime NJ.com
Earlier this month, state Assemblyman Troy Singleton (D-Burlington) introduced the bill (A3908), which would create the crime of “sexual assault by fraud,” which it defines as “an act of sexual penetration to which a person has given consent because the actor has misrepresented the purpose of the act or has represented he is someone he is not.”

Singleton decided to introduce the legislation after talking to Florence resident Mischele Lewis, who had been duped into paying $5,000 to her boyfriend, Cherry Hill resident William Allen Jordan, for what he claimed was a security clearance. Jordan said he was a British military official, but it turned out he was a serial bigamist and scam artist who pleaded guilty to defrauding Lewis on Nov. 10.

Prosecutors had initially tried to charge Jordan with sexual assault by coercion, but a grand jury refused to indict him on that charge.

 

[SwimExpert]

I think this issue is going to become one of the very messiest over the coming years. I firmly agree with laws that would deem impersonation (i.e. pretending to be my significant other) as rape, but it is ridiculous to count as rape an instance of someone lying about themselves.

What happens if I meet a blind woman and tell her that I'm the most handsome man in the world? Of course, I'm not. I'm actually quite ugly. So now that I think about it, it doesn't sound like a half bad idea. Of course, maybe that would make me sleazy. But a rapist? Definitely not.

What happens if I start dating a woman, we fall in love and get married. Let's say that I've always told her about how much I want a family one day, I'm constantly talking about how I can't wait for us to finally have a child together, and then one day two years into the marriage she finally confesses that she had her tubes tied years ago because she doesn't want kids and has no intention of ever having them? Two years worth of rape? Hardly.

But let's also take another situation. What if I'm on a date, my game is hitting, we go back to my place, and this girl is ready and willing to have sex with me, but wants me to use a condom? I tell her that I agree, but I lie and use a little sleight of...er, something, to slide through the gate without the prescribed dress code? She never notices until....well, you know. Her consent was predicated on certain criteria intended to protect not only against pregnancy but the potential for severe health hazards. Shouldn't this be considered a form of rape?

The answers are not easy. The only thing that we can be sure of is that any such laws need to be carefully and narrowly tailored. Deception, in general, does not create rape. Ethologically speaking a certain degree of deception is a fundamental component of human sexuality.

 

[saintmichaeldefendthem]

I think this issue is going to become one of the very messiest over the coming years. I firmly agree with laws that would deem impersonation (i.e. pretending to be my significant other) as rape, but it is ridiculous to count as rape an instance of someone lying about themselves.

What happens if I meet a blind woman and tell her that I'm the most handsome man in the world? Of course, I'm not. I'm actually quite ugly. So now that I think about it, it doesn't sound like a half bad idea. Of course, maybe that would make me sleazy. But a rapist? Definitely not.

What happens if I start dating a woman, we fall in love and get married. Let's say that I've always told her about how much I want a family one day, I'm constantly talking about how I can't wait for us to finally have a child together, and then one day two years into the marriage she finally confesses that she had her tubes tied years ago because she doesn't want kids and has no intention of ever having them? Two years worth of rape? Hardly.

But let's also take another situation. What if I'm on a date, my game is hitting, we go back to my place, and this girl is ready and willing to have sex with me, but wants me to use a condom? I tell her that I agree, but I lie and use a little sleight of...er, something, to slide through the gate without the prescribed dress code? She never notices until....well, you know. Her consent was predicated on certain criteria intended to protect not only against pregnancy but the potential for severe health hazards. Shouldn't this be considered a form of rape?

The answers are not easy. The only thing that we can be sure of is that any such laws need to be carefully and narrowly tailored. Deception, in general, does not create rape. Ethologically speaking a certain degree of deception is a fundamental component of human sexuality.

The one real life example I saw that I wrote about in the OP, the woman was clearly deceived by a conman and still the jury didn't convict on rape. If even such a clear cut case of rape by fraud was jury nullified, I have to wonder if prosecutors have any success at all trying to apply this law.

 

[Skylar]

I did. He hasn't said.

If you don't know....how do you know its 'liberal' anything? It could be California. It could be Minnesota. It could be Texas.

Or....it could be none of the above, as no such laws may actually exist. Wouldn't it be best to know before you ubiquitously blame 'libs'?

I've been around long enough to know how much libs like to play the blame game and embrace the victimhood mentality. Any law close to that is definitely liberal. Life is full of chances, pick one and it fails, it's your fault. Live and learn.

Ah. So why burden yourself with evidence. Or even a passing understanding of the topic.

You can be combative about anything, can't you? This isn't one of those kind of topics. Just discuss the issue without making enemies out of everyone.

"Enemies"? You may be taking this board just a tad too seriously.

And which states do these laws exist in?

The OP saw the show, go ahead and ask him.

I did. He hasn't said.

If you don't know....how do you know its 'liberal' anything? It could be California. It could be Minnesota. It could be Texas.

Or....it could be none of the above, as no such laws may actually exist. Wouldn't it be best to know before you ubiquitously blame 'libs'?

I've been around long enough to know how much libs like to play the blame game and embrace the victimhood mentality. Any law close to that is definitely liberal. Life is full of chances, pick one and it fails, it's your fault. Live and learn.

Ah. So why burden yourself with evidence. Or even a passing understanding of the topic.

I do. I know assholes like you like the back of my hand. You admitted you don't know about the laws ...LOL.

Laughing....um, dipshit, I just quoted the law. You're mistaking me for you. Its you that doesn't have the slightest clue what you're talking about.

 

[Skylar]

I'd have to know more about the laws in question and the States you're referring to. The description you've given wouldn't be rape by any conventional definition I've ever heard of.

This might help:

Rape by deception - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia

I don't know the legal definition of deception rape, or if there is legally such a thing, but, I knew it when I saw it.

My best friend lived for one thing, to charm his way into the pants of any and every girl he could, by any means necessary.

As I grew up, I parted ways with him, but, what he did was immoral, if not illegal.

There's too many shades of deception in the ballet of human sexual pairing to really draw a line anywhere. Most of what happens is just being a good salesman. We put on our best appearance, hide our shortcomings, and put on a show in hopes of getting lucky. When does that start becoming rape? That's why in the OP example, even in an extreme example of deliberate deception, the jury couldn't find a way to convict.

When the person you're fucking thinks you're someone else. Like say, their boyfriend. Both cases of rape by deceit where when a man snuck into a bedroom and had sex with a woman while she thought it was her boyfriend.

That's pretty specific.

I thought you were downplaying that example.

And by 'downplaying', you mean citing it specifically over and over?

I don't think 'downplay' means what you think it means.

 

[saintmichaeldefendthem]

This might help:

Rape by deception - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia

I don't know the legal definition of deception rape, or if there is legally such a thing, but, I knew it when I saw it.

My best friend lived for one thing, to charm his way into the pants of any and every girl he could, by any means necessary.

As I grew up, I parted ways with him, but, what he did was immoral, if not illegal.

There's too many shades of deception in the ballet of human sexual pairing to really draw a line anywhere. Most of what happens is just being a good salesman. We put on our best appearance, hide our shortcomings, and put on a show in hopes of getting lucky. When does that start becoming rape? That's why in the OP example, even in an extreme example of deliberate deception, the jury couldn't find a way to convict.

When the person you're fucking thinks you're someone else. Like say, their boyfriend. Both cases of rape by deceit where when a man snuck into a bedroom and had sex with a woman while she thought it was her boyfriend.

That's pretty specific.

I thought you were downplaying that example.

And by 'downplaying', you mean citing it specifically over and over?

I don't think 'downplay' means what you think it means.

Clearly I was mistaken. I apologize, sir.

 

[Iceweasel]

I've been around long enough to know how much libs like to play the blame game and embrace the victimhood mentality. Any law close to that is definitely liberal. Life is full of chances, pick one and it fails, it's your fault. Live and learn.

Ah. So why burden yourself with evidence. Or even a passing understanding of the topic.

You can be combative about anything, can't you? This isn't one of those kind of topics. Just discuss the issue without making enemies out of everyone.

"Enemies"? You may be taking this board just a tad too seriously.

The OP saw the show, go ahead and ask him.

I did. He hasn't said.

If you don't know....how do you know its 'liberal' anything? It could be California. It could be Minnesota. It could be Texas.

Or....it could be none of the above, as no such laws may actually exist. Wouldn't it be best to know before you ubiquitously blame 'libs'?

I've been around long enough to know how much libs like to play the blame game and embrace the victimhood mentality. Any law close to that is definitely liberal. Life is full of chances, pick one and it fails, it's your fault. Live and learn.

Ah. So why burden yourself with evidence. Or even a passing understanding of the topic.

I do. I know assholes like you like the back of my hand. You admitted you don't know about the laws ...LOL.

Laughing....um, dipshit, I just quoted the law. You're mistaking me for you. Its you that doesn't have the slightest clue what you're talking about.

I posted what I was talking about, um dipshit. You can't read.

 

[Skull Pilot]

If lying becomes a jail-able offense then our entire population of elected officials would be incarcerated.

After all pols lie so as to fuck us all the time.

 

[Delta4Embassy]

I have to admit I'm ambiguous on this and didn't know what to think when I first heard about it.

It seems that some states have a law that adds deceiving a woman (or probably a man too) to have sex with her to the definition of rape. The logic, which I'm not disagreeing with, is that a woman cannot possibly give consent when she doesn't know who she's having sex with because he made himself out to be someone he wasn't.

I saw this on a Dateline episode where a man posing as a CIA spy, married and created families with several different women. Everything he said was lies on top of lies, a parfait of deception. When he was caught, he was charged for several crimes, the most serious of which was rape.....by deception.

The jury dismissed that charge, not perceiving that any real harm was demonstrated by prosecutors, at least not in the sex.

Then I saw it again while watching the famous movie "Overboard" (Kurt Russel, Goldie Hawn) with the family, which I'm sure everyone has seen. When he finally has sex with the amnesiac woman he deceived, there was flowery music as if this were a positive and intensely romantic scene instead a woman being raped because she didn't know he wasn't really her husband. I looked at this scene (the kids were in bed, no they didn't see that part!) and asked my wife, "Is this rape?"

She doesn't know either.

This doesn't seem like a good idea. Isn't pretending to be something you're not one of the big things people do in bars hoping for sex? Richer than they actually are, employed when they're not, dyed hair and makeup looking prettier than they are, etc.?

If you consent verbally to sex, then try to say you were raped because the Fortune 500 guy you consented to having sex with only works at McDonald's, tough beans. That wasn't rape, that was you being a gullible gold digger who got what she deserved.

 

[Katzndogz]

Rape by deception is pretending to be the husband or boyfriend of a woman.

Rape by fraud is telling a woman that the sex act is something else. A medical exam or the cure or prevention of disease.

Extending these legal definitions feeds the feminist position that all sex is rape and all men are rapists. They just need the creation of a definition that fits.

 

[WinterBorn]

If a woman has silicone breast implants, dyed hair, dental veneers, and colored contacts, and she seduces me, can I have her arrested under this law?

 

[saintmichaeldefendthem]

I have to admit I'm ambiguous on this and didn't know what to think when I first heard about it.

It seems that some states have a law that adds deceiving a woman (or probably a man too) to have sex with her to the definition of rape. The logic, which I'm not disagreeing with, is that a woman cannot possibly give consent when she doesn't know who she's having sex with because he made himself out to be someone he wasn't.

I saw this on a Dateline episode where a man posing as a CIA spy, married and created families with several different women. Everything he said was lies on top of lies, a parfait of deception. When he was caught, he was charged for several crimes, the most serious of which was rape.....by deception.

The jury dismissed that charge, not perceiving that any real harm was demonstrated by prosecutors, at least not in the sex.

Then I saw it again while watching the famous movie "Overboard" (Kurt Russel, Goldie Hawn) with the family, which I'm sure everyone has seen. When he finally has sex with the amnesiac woman he deceived, there was flowery music as if this were a positive and intensely romantic scene instead a woman being raped because she didn't know he wasn't really her husband. I looked at this scene (the kids were in bed, no they didn't see that part!) and asked my wife, "Is this rape?"

She doesn't know either.

This doesn't seem like a good idea. Isn't pretending to be something you're not one of the big things people do in bars hoping for sex? Richer than they actually are, employed when they're not, dyed hair and makeup looking prettier than they are, etc.?

If you consent verbally to sex, then try to say you were raped because the Fortune 500 guy you consented to having sex with only works at McDonald's, tough beans. That wasn't rape, that was you being a gullible gold digger who got what she deserved.

It seems that "buyer beware" has been working fine. Why fix what isn't broken?

 

[saintmichaeldefendthem]

If a woman has silicone breast implants, dyed hair, dental veneers, and colored contacts, and she seduces me, can I have her arrested under this law?

Like most rape laws, this was likely targeting men as the only perpetrators of rape. Equal rights is the last thing feminists want.

 

[rcfieldz]

If his penis isn't as large as a guys ego is it deception? If she doesn't say no or call 911 it's not rape.

 

[saintmichaeldefendthem]

If his penis isn't as large as a guys ego is it deception? If she doesn't say no or call 911 it's not rape.

Remember in the 90's when feminists claimed all marriage is slavery and all sex is rape? (for the woman) They had to tone down the angry shrieking because people were getting turned off. Now it's more subtle, but they haven't changed their thinking on this.