Debt is Pushing the US Into Fascism

Andylusion

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You realize, that Greedy Jeff, could if he wanted to, close Amazon down, take all his money and move to island somewhere, and never hire another person for the rest of his life, and live in luxury until he dies.
How would Greedy Jeff accomplish that without exploiting someone else's labor?
I just said how. He could close the company, collect the money, and move to a small island.

He could live there, on that money, until the end of time, and never run out of money.

How would your employees live their lives, without any jobs, because that would be exploitation?

Please explain. If having a job is exploitation, please explain out the 100 Million people in this country would eek out of life, without anyone being employed by anyone?
 
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georgephillip

georgephillip

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So what?

Your job, whatever job you made a living off of.... wouldn't exist without someone having invested in its creation.
Bezos's contribution to the creation of Amazon is not in dispute; however, in the present day his 800,000 employees (not to mention the Internet) contribute infinitely more to its success than Greedy Jeff's daily contribution to the corporation.
 

Toddsterpatriot

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however, in the present day his 800,000 employees (not to mention the Internet) contribute infinitely more to its success than Greedy Jeff's daily contribution to the corporation.
And yet, he still owns almost 11% of the company.

How much do you own?
 
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georgephillip

georgephillip

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With or without the internet, doesn't matter. Fact is, it does exist, with the internet, and every single time people make a purchase through Amazon, it justifies why Bezo makes the big money.
Jeff makes the big money for the same reason as every other capitalist Robber Barron has...by exploiting those who create their wealth:

Jeff Bezos’s $150 Billion Fortune Is a Policy Failure

"Bezos and Amazon are in many ways ideal exemplars of the triumph of capital over labor, like the Waltons and Walmart and Rockefeller and Standard Oil before them..."

"In contrast, half of Amazon’s employees make less than $28,446 a year, per the company’s legal filings.*

"Some workers have complained of getting timed six-minute bathroom breaks. (Amazon said it does not track or limit employee bathroom use.)

"Warehouse workers need to pick goods and pack boxes at closely monitored speeds, handling up to 1,000 items and walking as many as 15 miles per shift.

"Contractors have repeatedly complained of wage-and-hour violations and argued that the company retaliates against whistleblowers.

"An Amazon temp died on the floor just a few years ago."
 

initforme

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We are clearly divided by class. It's always been this way. Doesn't mean anything bad it's just a fact. Different classes live differently. Wealthy associate with wealthy and poor associate with poor. In my 88 years of life it's been this way. When SS and Medicare are taken away or cut off the nation will indeed go into a tailspin like we've never seen. Those programs have made life alot better for how many millions of americans who worked their butts off just to barely scrape by.
 

initforme

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How does anyone survive on 28 grand? For that I don't work all that hard. But if they get some govt help I guess they can make it.
 
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georgephillip

georgephillip

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Ok, well... I don't know what to tell you, because the facts contradict you. Zimbabwe tried that. Germany tried it. Argentina tried it. Venezuela tried it. Numerous places tried what you claim... and the bottom line is... it doesn't work.
None of the states you mentioned attempted to apply Modern Monetary Theory and none came close to possessing a global reserve currency, a $20 trillion GDP, and the richest homeland in human history.

MODERN MONEY: The way a sovereign currency “works”
 

Toddsterpatriot

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Ok, well... I don't know what to tell you, because the facts contradict you. Zimbabwe tried that. Germany tried it. Argentina tried it. Venezuela tried it. Numerous places tried what you claim... and the bottom line is... it doesn't work.
None of the states you mentioned attempted to apply Modern Monetary Theory and none came close to possessing a global reserve currency, a $20 trillion GDP, and the richest homeland in human history.

MODERN MONEY: The way a sovereign currency “works”
None of the states you mentioned attempted to apply Modern Monetary Theory

Since Germany in the 20s, eh?
 

Toddsterpatriot

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georgephillip

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I think you know that you completely shifted the goal post. You have been posting throughout this thread, about "surplus value" as being wage theft.

Now you are trying to talk about actual employers simply not paying employees.
Surely you've noticed those who "own" the means of production have a variety of methods for stealing wages:

MR Online | Wage Theft, Wage as Theft.

"The worker must perform surplus labor, labor in excess of what is necessary for the reproduction of the worker, which is realized as surplus value and profit (and rent, interest, taxes, etc.).

"The origin of surplus value is the difference between the exchange value of labor power (wage) and the exchange value of the commodities that labor-power produces.

"Capital becomes capital when it appropriates that excess for which it gives no equivalent: 'Surplus value in general is value in excess of the equivalent,' the equivalence of wage and labor-power.23

"Thus, even when the employer does not directly steal wages but pays them in full and on time, he still appropriates labor for which he has paid nothing: surplus labor, or forced labor."
 
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georgephillip

georgephillip

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Toddsterpatriot

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I think you know that you completely shifted the goal post. You have been posting throughout this thread, about "surplus value" as being wage theft.

Now you are trying to talk about actual employers simply not paying employees.
Surely you've noticed those who "own" the means of production have a variety of methods for stealing wages:

MR Online | Wage Theft, Wage as Theft.

"The worker must perform surplus labor, labor in excess of what is necessary for the reproduction of the worker, which is realized as surplus value and profit (and rent, interest, taxes, etc.).

"The origin of surplus value is the difference between the exchange value of labor power (wage) and the exchange value of the commodities that labor-power produces.

"Capital becomes capital when it appropriates that excess for which it gives no equivalent: 'Surplus value in general is value in excess of the equivalent,' the equivalence of wage and labor-power.23

"Thus, even when the employer does not directly steal wages but pays them in full and on time, he still appropriates labor for which he has paid nothing: surplus labor, or forced labor."
1600820708727.png


Extra work? LOL!

If you want to get paid, work.

"Thus, even when the employer does not directly steal wages but pays them in full and on time, he still appropriates labor for which he has paid nothing: surplus labor, or forced labor."

Liar. "Surplus labor" is paid just like any other labor.
If you want to work for a company that makes no profit, feel free.
They might not be around very long.
 
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georgephillip

georgephillip

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What does that have to do with anything?

That has nothing to do with someone being a sell out. Nothing. You made a claim. Now you can't back the claim.
"Selling out is when you change your position for money," right?
Obama promised to use public funds for his 2008 campaign then changed his position after GS donated $900,000 to his election efforts.
Hence, Obama sold out just like every other POTUS candidate of my lifetime.
 
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georgephillip

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Yeah, because that's dumb. You can't wipe out white supremacy. Be honest, did he do it? No. So what did he do that was of any value? Nothing. He wasted his entire life, and accomplished absolutely nothing.
How many Americans die from cancer every year?

By your reasoning, every researcher who has donated their lives to finding a cure for cancer has "accomplished absolutely nothing."


Frank Marshall Davis - Wikipedia
"Davis promoted the ideal of a 'raceless' society, based on his belief that race as a biological or social construct was illogical and a fallacy.[22]

"Davis was a member of the Civil Rights Congress in 1947–1948,[6] and was vice chair of the Chicago Civil Liberties Committee from 1944 to 1947.[19]

"He was a supporter of Henry Wallace's Progressive Party.[23] "

When you compare the influence that white supremacy exerted on this country in 1947 to its affects today, Davis and countless other activists have accomplished a great deal.
 
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georgephillip

georgephillip

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By the way, it's not tax evasion. It's tax avoidance, and perfectly legally.
And why is tax "avoidance" perfectly legal?

The sordid tale of Microsoft's epic tax evasion and the war they waged against the IRS | Boing Boing

"The IRS assembled a 60-person team, including elite outside lawyers, and tried to take Microsoft to the mat. Instead of settling or admitting fault, Microsoft hired PWC (another consulting giant implicated in corrupt dealings) to lobby congress to neuter the IRS, and congress obliged, thanks to a bipartisan coalition (led by Orrin Hatch [R-UT])."

Because rich parasites like Bezos and Gates and Jobs and Trump bribe corrupt politicians like Hatch and Schumer and Pelosi for favorable tax "laws."

Do you blame "government" or private fortunes?
 
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georgephillip

georgephillip

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However, when morons say things like "making the company totally unprofitable on paper, and thus immune from taxation" That's when you drift from fact to opinion.

FY20 Q4 - Press Releases - Investor Relations - Microsoft
It's baffling to me, that people like you, or I should say people like the writers who made that link you posted.... can say such obviously false statements, and never think anyone will fact check them, which it is so easy to do.
You believe Microsoft's version?
Why is that?
Did you also believe Enron and Bernie Madoff?
Did you ever take any classes at
 

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