Death and Dying

[guno]

There may be persons on the board that have lost a loved one to suicide. I'm thinking that it is not right to tell them their loved one has certainly gone to eternal fire.

There's an excellent book, Many Masters, Many Lives that talks about a psychiatrist with his patient and the experiences he had when he hypnotized her and the patient actually went into different lives and spoke a variety of languages although she was not a highly educated person.

What was most interesting was the patient's experiences between the lives. She learned lessons from the Masters, often quoting the Bible (which she didn't know) and having the souls rest before returning to earth in a new body but the same soul. The patient always had the choice if returning to earthly body or learning her lessons from the Masters. Quite a read, can be read in one day.

Another book on the subject
Beyond the Ashes: Cases of Reincarnation from the Holocaust

Beyond the Ashes: Cases of Reincarnation from the Holocaust: Yonassan Gershom, John Rossner: 9780876042939: Amazon.com: Books

 

[Skull Pilot]

I wanted to discuss conscious dying, and making the choice to stop eating and drinking.

IOW suicide

Everyone has the right to decide to live or die at any time in their lives if that choice is to have someone else help them then that's Ok too

 

[guno]

This is a gift that Jackson offered us. The experience of losing a loved one.

I am not unusual. So many have experienced the same when their loved ones pass. I didn't mean this to be about me.

Twenty years ago both my parents passed within 8 weeks of each other of lung disease , both at home with the help of hospice , we were the caregivers, the last week of their life they just stopped eating and only requested small sips of water , that was their directive, each one went through the same phases of dying . My father passed first and my mom seemed strong and attended the funeral , a week after, she went down hill . It was like a replay of my dad, thankfully they let their wishes be known and weren't in a hospital where they might have been hooked up to tubes .

 

[Jackson]

Thank you for sharing that, Guno. Losing both so close together had to be difficult.

 

[guno]

Thank you for sharing that, Guno. Losing both so close together had to be difficult.

Life changing

 

[ChrisL]

Conscious voluntary dying is different from assisted suicide.

In other words, it's when you know you're dying and you choose not to accept extraordinary measures, including food and water.

What about it, and how is it any different? I think if you take actions that you know are going to cause your own death, that is still suicide.

 

[Dhara]

Some of us see it differently, Chris. We'll just have to agree to disagree.

 

[Dhara]

When someone is close to dying, they aren't hungry or thirsty. It's a kindness to not force food and fluids. Not suicide.

Some folks seem to think dying isn't natural and should be prevented at all costs. That ignores the reality.

 

[ChrisL]

Some of us see it differently, Chris. We'll just have to agree to disagree.

I asked you what is the difference.

 

[ChrisL]

I am pro assisted suicide (for the terminally ill or those who have to suffer with a terrible disease) just for the record. However, it is still consciously ending your life. You are just doing it in a different manner. The person who takes a drug overdose, etc., to avoid a life of pain and suffering is pretty much doing the same thing, except maybe just speeding the process along.

 

[ChrisL]

Maybe you should have said, "if you know you're going to die anyways." I would agree that it's different than someone who is healthy committing suicide.

 

[Dhara]

Maybe you should have said, "if you know you're going to die anyways." I would agree that it's different than someone who is healthy committing suicide.

If you had read all of the thread you would have seen that I answered this question.

 

[Dhara]

Despite the fact most seniors want to die at home or in the home of a loved one, only a third actually do. Many more die in nursing homes, hospitals or intensive care units hooked to machines and feeding tubes. Of those who do make it to hospice care, one third are there for less than three days before dying. Until then, many are subjected to aggressive end-of-life treatment.

Or as the new study’s conclusion put it, “dying patients continue to be hospitalized and subjected to ineffective therapies that erode their quality of life and their personal dignity” while doctors “have a striking personal preference to forego high-intensity care for themselves at the end-of-life and prefer to die gently and naturally.”

Periyakoil said she understands what’s behind the disparity.

“Our current default is ‘doing,’ but in any serious illness there comes a tipping point where the high-intensity treatment becomes more of a burden than the disease itself," she said. “[But] we don't train doctors to talk [to patients about end of life] or reward them for talking. We train them to do and reward them for doing. The system needs to be changed.”

Dr. Bernardo Goulart, a lung, head and neck cancer oncologist with Seattle Cancer Care Alliance and affiliate investigator with Fred Hutch’s Hutchinson Institute for Cancer Care Outcomes Research (HICOR), admits talking to patients about end-of-life care is not easy.

“It’s a hard topic to discuss,” he said. “It involves difficult emotions for the physician including guilt, a sense of failure, a sense of abandonment. I have a lot of ambivalent thoughts when I’m having a discussion about transitioning from aggressive cancer care to palliative hospice-type care. “

How doctors die (it’s not like the rest of us)

 

[sealybobo]

I worked end stage rehab for 27 years. What's your question?

My mom has Alzheimer's and she's becoming impossible to deal with. Do we just need to get better meds to calm her down or is this inevitable?

She's killing my dad.

 

[koshergrl]

She's talking about signing a release that will allow your family to kill you when you become a burden. Regardless of what you want at the time.

 

[koshergrl]

It's just another way to murder vulnerable people. She'll couch it in terms that makes it sounds like it's all about her choosing this now...but in reality, it's a tool to allow people to kill those who they perceive as a *burden*..regardless of what those who are to be killed want, based on a paper that they signed under God knows what duress, who knows how long ago.

 

[sealybobo]

She's talking about signing a release that will allow your family to kill you when you become a burden. Regardless of what you want at the time.

If my mom could see herself shed want to be dead. She even said it a million times when she was able to say that. Now she can only say dad, my name and STOP IT. This shit is very sad to watch

 

[koshergrl]

She's talking about signing a release that will allow your family to kill you when you become a burden. Regardless of what you want at the time.

If my mom could see herself shed want to be dead. She even said it a million times when she was able to say that. Now she can only say dad, my name and STOP IT. This shit is very sad to watch

Boo hoo. Life is hard, and we all die. You don't get to kill people because you feel awkward dealing with their pain.

 

[sealybobo]

It's just another way to murder vulnerable people. She'll couch it in terms that makes it sounds like it's all about her choosing this now...but in reality, it's a tool to allow people to kill those who they perceive as a *burden*..regardless of what those who are to be killed want, based on a paper that they signed under God knows what duress, who knows how long ago.

If you put that piece of paper in front of me my brother or dad and said "should we kill you if you get to be like ma?" We would all sign it.

They asked us if we wanted to put a breathing tube in my grandmother's neck when she could no longer have it down her throat and we said no take the tube out of her throat and just let her die naturally. No sense in prolonging her agony

 

[sealybobo]

She's talking about signing a release that will allow your family to kill you when you become a burden. Regardless of what you want at the time.

If my mom could see herself shed want to be dead. She even said it a million times when she was able to say that. Now she can only say dad, my name and STOP IT. This shit is very sad to watch

Boo hoo. Life is hard, and we all die. You don't get to kill people because you feel awkward dealing with their pain.

And my dad feeds her so good. If it were me I'd give her the mcd diet and stop giving her her high blood pressure medicine.

Half kidding half not