CDZ COVID Numbers and perspective

[JackOfNoTrades]

Shutdowns became necessary back then for the same reason they might be necessary again.

They were never necessary before and they aren't necessary now.

In a perfect world, I would agree. I don't think they should be necessary either.
If only people could be persuaded to do the right thing...out of contributing to the collective good.
There's the rub. ^Shrug^.

 

[Circe]

The numbers I'm skeptical about are this testing nonsense --- high false positives, and in any case what does human activity matter? Some people are getting tested: so what? Government turmoil designed to distract from the fact that nothing they do does any GOOD ---- just harm. If you do test positive, what can they do to cure you? Nothing whatsoever.

There is much to be skeptical about i.e., CDC numbers that, in the first place, are provisional. In the 2nd place, the death toll data is unreliable as they are counting deaths that are not caused by COVID. Also, all they can do is log deaths of folks with COVID "involved" which explains nothing.

Provisional Death Counts for Coronavirus Disease 2019 (COVID-19)

National Center for Health Statistics

www.cdc.gov

Yes, I agree: the numbers are not great. Better than for 1918! Which are probably 100% retrospective (meaning real bad) but, hey, at least now epidemiology depts. are trying. They'll get papers out of this bigtime; they have motivation. But I know what you mean about the rumored alligator attack deaths being laid to COVID........auto accidents, etc. I don't know how true any of that is, but I think the numbers are confounded with getting more money for COVID treatment. That's a problem. I am viewing deaths as the best statistic, and hospitalization as the next best. I know the numbers aren't pure.

The stupid testing is just some people making PILES of money doing something that does no good whatever on any level, and the stats from it are worthless.

 

[Circe]

In a perfect world, I would agree. I don't think they should be necessary either.
If only people could be persuaded to do the right thing...out of contributing to the collective good.
There's the rub. ^Shrug^.

I suppose you mean if everyone masked they could go about business normally!

Well, everyone is masking because these rotten no good stores are doing the enforcement for the government, and it doesn't make a bit of difference. The virus goes through all masks like mosquitoes through a chain-link fence, because they are very, very, very small!

The Cleveland Clinic and the Mayo Clinic just this past month came out saying both had many hundreds of infected staff: and that is with N95 masks!! Masks do no good. You are believing in a government that has no clue what it is doing and is imposing great suffering on its people for no good reason at all, just to show power and because governors are power-hungry.

 

[JackOfNoTrades]

In a perfect world, I would agree. I don't think they should be necessary either.
If only people could be persuaded to do the right thing...out of contributing to the collective good.
There's the rub. ^Shrug^.

I suppose you mean if everyone masked they could go about business normally!

Well, everyone is masking because these rotten no good stores are doing the enforcement for the government, and it doesn't make a bit of difference. The virus goes through all masks like mosquitoes through a chain-link fence, because they are very, very, very small!

The Cleveland Clinic and the Mayo Clinic just this past month came out saying both had many hundreds of infected staff: and that is with N95 masks!! Masks do no good. You are believing in a government that has no clue what it is doing and is imposing great suffering on its people for no good reason at all, just to show power and because governors are power-hungry.

As this is a clean thread, if you could please direct the class to those statements, it would be appreciated. When I do a search, I come up with a lot garbanzo. I know the back and forth of this argument. But if there was just a sliver of prevention in wearing a mask, wouldn't we want to do it? And promote it?

How One Doctor Addresses Doubts from Anti-Maskers

When it comes to having a conversation with someone who doesn’t want to wear a mask, some of us might be at a loss for words. But a healthcare provider’s knowledge and experience can speak volumes. Find out how one doctor overcomes objections to wearing a mask.

health.clevelandclinic.org

 

[gipper]

 

[Leo123]

Yes, I agree: the numbers are not great. Better than for 1918! Which are probably 100% retrospective (meaning real bad) but, hey, at least now epidemiology depts. are trying. They'll get papers out of this bigtime; they have motivation. But I know what you mean about the rumored alligator attack deaths being laid to COVID........auto accidents, etc. I don't know how true any of that is, but I think the numbers are confounded with getting more money for COVID treatment. That's a problem. I am viewing deaths as the best statistic, and hospitalization as the next best. I know the numbers aren't pure.

The stupid testing is just some people making PILES of money doing something that does no good whatever on any level, and the stats from it are worthless.

My point is that the CDC "COVID involved" disclaimer is given no explanation. Simply put they do not define "involved".....words matter in this case.

 

[Circe]

As this is a clean thread, if you could please direct the class to those statements, it would be appreciated.

What statements? I don't know to what you are referring. Or what you mean by a "clean thread."

When I do a search, I come up with a lot garbanzo. I know the back and forth of this argument.

Perhaps you do come up with a "lot garbanzo" when you search, but if so, I cannot imagine what you are searching for. Except possibly foreign food recipes. I don't know what argument you know the back and forth of, supposedly, either. This is a very unclear post.

But if there was just a sliver of prevention in wearing a mask, wouldn't we want to do it? And promote it?

No, of course not. That would be stupid.

 

[Leo123]

Today we see those States with the most Draconian mask wearing edicts are the most 'infected.'

 

[EvilCat Breath]

There are more deaths from suicide caused by lockdown depression than die of covid. Have you noticed that there are no more overdose deaths? There are no more pneumonia deaths. That's because all those deaths are now classed as covid deaths. Just more lying.

More politicians are demanding the arrest of those not complying with the idiot rules. Then those same politicians do whatever they want. Just more lying.

Why does anyone even fall for this anymore? Oh yes. California has just banned all gatherings of any size - except for protests. Protests of any size are allowed with no mask mandate.

They are LYING TO YOU. Stop falling for it.

 

[Thevolunteerwino]

A child dies of starvation in the world every 12 seconds. Older people like me are more likely to die of the supossed current covid pandemic and children are most likely just to suffer cold symptoms. Lets look at these numbers side by side then discuss it.

 

[Donald H]

There are more deaths from suicide caused by lockdown depression than die of covid. Have you noticed that there are no more overdose deaths? There are no more pneumonia deaths. That's because all those deaths are now classed as covid deaths. Just more lying.

More politicians are demanding the arrest of those not complying with the idiot rules. Then those same politicians do whatever they want. Just more lying.

Why does anyone even fall for this anymore? Oh yes. California has just banned all gatherings of any size - except for protests. Protests of any size are allowed with no mask mandate.

They are LYING TO YOU. Stop falling for it.

There were only a little over 2600 deaths from Covid in America yesterday and so if lockdowns are causing more then we can add another 2600 + to that and that gets us 5200+ deaths related to Covid.
And that's not counting the suicides by Trumpers who are finally seeing the truth! This ain't no seasonal flu bug hon!

 

[EvilCat Breath]

There are more deaths from suicide caused by lockdown depression than die of covid. Have you noticed that there are no more overdose deaths? There are no more pneumonia deaths. That's because all those deaths are now classed as covid deaths. Just more lying.

More politicians are demanding the arrest of those not complying with the idiot rules. Then those same politicians do whatever they want. Just more lying.

Why does anyone even fall for this anymore? Oh yes. California has just banned all gatherings of any size - except for protests. Protests of any size are allowed with no mask mandate.

They are LYING TO YOU. Stop falling for it.

There were only a little over 2600 deaths from Covid in America yesterday and so if lockdowns are causing more then we can add another 2600 + to that and that gets us 5200+ deaths related to Covid.
And that's not counting the suicides by Trumpers who are finally seeing the truth! This ain't no seasonal flu bug hon!

This ain't no seasonal flu bug. It's much less serious.

 

[donttread]

Today we see those States with the most Draconian mask wearing edicts are the most 'infected.'

Yup. King Andy pissed most of us off with draconian lockdowns statewide instead of regionally appropriate measures. Then despite his crackdowns he oversees the worst COVID hellhole in the world. Not just the 1st world but NYC came in behind Igottagetout oif here istan! Then he was nominated for an Emmy and wrote a damned book? This man is celebrated after sending COVID to nursing homes which no sane person thought was a good idea.

 

[Skylar]

If this is the wrong place for this post I apologize. One of the reasons I joined here was to see a balanced set of ideas about issues. I am a fiscal con/ social lib. Essentially a Libertarian. I am looking for a civil discussion on issues with libs, cons and moderates. Afterall a wise man once said "I never learned anything in a room where everyone agreed with me"
So here goes topic one. I have questions about stats and perspective.

1) Perspective on big numbers related to COVID: Do we have a proper perspective on the relationship between 1/4 of a million deaths in a country of 1/3rd of a billion people
One way to bring that into focus is that 2.8 million plus Americans die each and every year. Therefore Corona probably added less than 10% to the total death from all cause this year. Probably far less since Neil Ferguson ( the man's who's estimated first caused panic) admits that half of these deaths were among people so debilitated that they would have died this year anyway. If he is even close to right about that then COVID may raise the total deaths considerably less than 10%.

Is that enough to have taken the actions we took in terms of closing businesses, limits on the number who are allowed to congregate together, massive increase in national debt, hospital closings/near closings and restrictions on what many of us consider personal rights?

2) Chronology question: In March we were asked to take two weeks off to "flatten the curve" based upon Neil Ferguson's model using very high death rate numbers which originally predicted 2.2 million American deaths.
At about the time the two weeks ended and the vast majority of our hospitals were suffering from no business not too much. Then in early April Ferguson adjusted the death prediction to less than 10% , not by 10% TO 10% of what his Model had predicted leading to world wide lockdowns. Now the forecasted death toll for 2020 would be very close to our reported reality.

So the question is how do you justify two weeks to flatten the curve based upon an expectation of 2,000,000 deaths then after those 2 weeks double down on months of intensified lockdowns and added mask rules given the new , far better forecast of deaths being so much lower?

We lost more American lives today alone than we lost on 911.

 

[danielpalos]

There are more deaths from suicide caused by lockdown depression than die of covid. Have you noticed that there are no more overdose deaths? There are no more pneumonia deaths. That's because all those deaths are now classed as covid deaths. Just more lying.

More politicians are demanding the arrest of those not complying with the idiot rules. Then those same politicians do whatever they want. Just more lying.

Why does anyone even fall for this anymore? Oh yes. California has just banned all gatherings of any size - except for protests. Protests of any size are allowed with no mask mandate.

They are LYING TO YOU. Stop falling for it.

There were only a little over 2600 deaths from Covid in America yesterday and so if lockdowns are causing more then we can add another 2600 + to that and that gets us 5200+ deaths related to Covid.
And that's not counting the suicides by Trumpers who are finally seeing the truth! This ain't no seasonal flu bug hon!

This ain't no seasonal flu bug. It's much less serious.

Immigration is even less serious than that.

 

[Thevolunteerwino]

For some reason all this covid media hype and numbers dont seem to reflect what I see outside my house window and at work. Total disconnect
If it wasnt for the masks at public places I would eventually forget all about it

 

[gipper]

If this is the wrong place for this post I apologize. One of the reasons I joined here was to see a balanced set of ideas about issues. I am a fiscal con/ social lib. Essentially a Libertarian. I am looking for a civil discussion on issues with libs, cons and moderates. Afterall a wise man once said "I never learned anything in a room where everyone agreed with me"
So here goes topic one. I have questions about stats and perspective.

1) Perspective on big numbers related to COVID: Do we have a proper perspective on the relationship between 1/4 of a million deaths in a country of 1/3rd of a billion people
One way to bring that into focus is that 2.8 million plus Americans die each and every year. Therefore Corona probably added less than 10% to the total death from all cause this year. Probably far less since Neil Ferguson ( the man's who's estimated first caused panic) admits that half of these deaths were among people so debilitated that they would have died this year anyway. If he is even close to right about that then COVID may raise the total deaths considerably less than 10%.

Is that enough to have taken the actions we took in terms of closing businesses, limits on the number who are allowed to congregate together, massive increase in national debt, hospital closings/near closings and restrictions on what many of us consider personal rights?

2) Chronology question: In March we were asked to take two weeks off to "flatten the curve" based upon Neil Ferguson's model using very high death rate numbers which originally predicted 2.2 million American deaths.
At about the time the two weeks ended and the vast majority of our hospitals were suffering from no business not too much. Then in early April Ferguson adjusted the death prediction to less than 10% , not by 10% TO 10% of what his Model had predicted leading to world wide lockdowns. Now the forecasted death toll for 2020 would be very close to our reported reality.

So the question is how do you justify two weeks to flatten the curve based upon an expectation of 2,000,000 deaths then after those 2 weeks double down on months of intensified lockdowns and added mask rules given the new , far better forecast of deaths being so much lower?

We lost more American lives today alone than we lost on 911.

This statement is true, but it was also true before the virus.

 

[donttread]

If this is the wrong place for this post I apologize. One of the reasons I joined here was to see a balanced set of ideas about issues. I am a fiscal con/ social lib. Essentially a Libertarian. I am looking for a civil discussion on issues with libs, cons and moderates. Afterall a wise man once said "I never learned anything in a room where everyone agreed with me"
So here goes topic one. I have questions about stats and perspective.

1) Perspective on big numbers related to COVID: Do we have a proper perspective on the relationship between 1/4 of a million deaths in a country of 1/3rd of a billion people
One way to bring that into focus is that 2.8 million plus Americans die each and every year. Therefore Corona probably added less than 10% to the total death from all cause this year. Probably far less since Neil Ferguson ( the man's who's estimated first caused panic) admits that half of these deaths were among people so debilitated that they would have died this year anyway. If he is even close to right about that then COVID may raise the total deaths considerably less than 10%.

Is that enough to have taken the actions we took in terms of closing businesses, limits on the number who are allowed to congregate together, massive increase in national debt, hospital closings/near closings and restrictions on what many of us consider personal rights?

2) Chronology question: In March we were asked to take two weeks off to "flatten the curve" based upon Neil Ferguson's model using very high death rate numbers which originally predicted 2.2 million American deaths.
At about the time the two weeks ended and the vast majority of our hospitals were suffering from no business not too much. Then in early April Ferguson adjusted the death prediction to less than 10% , not by 10% TO 10% of what his Model had predicted leading to world wide lockdowns. Now the forecasted death toll for 2020 would be very close to our reported reality.

So the question is how do you justify two weeks to flatten the curve based upon an expectation of 2,000,000 deaths then after those 2 weeks double down on months of intensified lockdowns and added mask rules given the new , far better forecast of deaths being so much lower?

We lost more American lives today alone than we lost on 911.

But we lose 2 1/2 times that many every day even beofre COVID