Covid delta again.

[Fort Fun Indiana]

The data on Israel, Gibraltar, the UK all show that the vaccine is not working on the delta variant.

Lie.

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMoa2107058

There’s an unfair war between vaccination proponents and detractors. Proponents are only saying what the data supports. Detractors can just say whatever the hell they want.

True.

They’re at liberty to contrive and propagate whatever ridiculous, willfully ignorant lie they want.

 

[colfax_m]

Not true at all. A virus that has pressure on it, injections during a pandemic, will mutate and adapt. Exactly what we're seeing now.

There’s always pressure on viruses to infect another person. More infections means more mutations.

We aren’t seeing variants emerge due to vaccinated populations. We are seeing them emerge through massive outbreaks. That’s simply a fact. Delta came from India. It came from an unvaccinated India.

 

[sakinago]

Lie.

I provided the data. Where’s the lie? Have at it. Is the Israeli ministry of health or the UK ministry of health lying? Am I lying about Olsterholm?

 

[sakinago]

There’s always pressure on viruses to infect another person. More infections means more mutations.

We aren’t seeing variants emerge due to vaccinated populations. We are seeing them emerge through massive outbreaks. That’s simply a fact. Delta came from India. It came from an unvaccinated India.

There was a lot of early vaccine testing in India if I remember correctly

 

[LordBrownTrout]

Then you are an anti vaxxer. Period. Go sit in the corner with the rest of them.

No, disir is not anti-vaccination. I'm the same way. It's just that you're an idiot incapable of logical deduction who cant understand simple concepts.

 

[LordBrownTrout]

There’s always pressure on viruses to infect another person. More infections means more mutations.

We aren’t seeing variants emerge due to vaccinated populations. We are seeing them emerge through massive outbreaks. That’s simply a fact. Delta came from India. It came from an unvaccinated India.

Thats simply not a fact. We have lambda, epsilon, delta. There's always more pressure on a virus when it's being hit by an injection on a worldwide scale. That's fact.

 

[sakinago]

Thats simply not a fact. We have lambda, epsilon, delta. There's always more pressure on a virus when it's being hit by an injection on a worldwide scale. That's fact.

Have y’all looked into dengevaxia and antibody dependent enhancement?

Science | AAAS

www.sciencemag.org

 

[Dragonlady]

I'm always amazed at how Canada packed that much fucking stupid into your little mind. It's just crazy. I didn't think that it was possible but YOU have clearly demonstrated it is possible. Good on you.

I notice how you didn't even attempt to refute my post, you just went straight to insults and abuse. What a weak and pathetic move on your part, A$$hat.

Sorry it took me so long to call you on your bullshit. I was down at the farmer's market, getting some fresh from the farm treats for my dinner party tomorrow. Friends I haven't seen for a while are coming out from the city for a celebration dinner. We haven't all been together since the lockdown started. The Blue Jays are coming home next week and we're planning our first game since 2019.

It feels good to live in a country where the government didn't try to politicize the pandemic and instead, went about the business of shutting it down. Giving our citizens the facts, structures, and information we needed to keep ourselves from getting sick and dying.

They gave our hospitals the testing materials and PPE to keep their staff safe, and our health insurance system ensured that anyone who sniffled, got tested before they spread it to others.

You were stupid and gullible enough to fall for every lie. You're still being conned by right wing politicians. And you call me stupid.

I'm sitting here, fully vaxxed, in a country which has pretty much achieved the 70% threshhold of "herd immunity", which means the virus has little opportunity to spread or mutuate.

Nothing is as gullible or as stupid as the white conservative male.

 

[colfax_m]

This lie is among the most insane. The data on the “non-vaccinated” comes from dec/Jan when the vaccine was barely in circulation. How is this incredibly misleading, if not an outright lie? If you’re on the side using this kind of misinformation, you are on the wrong side.

The data on Israel, Gibraltar, the UK all show that the vaccine is not working on the delta variant. These are the most vaccinated countries on the planet. Note that the vaccination rate in Gibraltar is 100%. The vaccine is Israel is only 60% effective, not taking into consideration those who’ve attained natural immunity and have been vaccinated. This is in contrast with the Israeli breakthrough infection rate of those with natural immunity of less than 1%. As for the UK 1/3 of all COVID deaths come from the fully vaccinated. Further a study in the US is showing that the vaccine isn’t working.

Gibraltar COVID - Coronavirus Statistics - Worldometer

Gibraltar Coronavirus update with statistics and graphs: total and new cases, deaths per day, mortality and recovery rates, current active cases, recoveries, trends and timeline.

www.worldometers.info

Israel confirms vaccine less effective against Delta variant, eyes third dose

Horowitz: Israeli government data shows natural immunity from infection much stronger than vaccine-induced immunity | Blaze Media

Everything the public health "experts" said about the shortcomings of infection-induced immunity actually appears to hold true for the vaccines. If you speak to any man on the street, they will tell you, based on every censored article they read online, that vaccines are stronger than infection...

www.theblaze.com

'Almost a third of Britons who died of Indian variant had two jabs'

With the PM on the verge of delaying 'Freedom Day', new analysis by Public Health England has revealed that 29 per cent of Covid deaths from the B.1.617.2 strain have had two injections.

www.dailymail.co.uk

The Severe Acute Respiratory Syndrome Coronavirus 2 (SARS-CoV-2) mRNA Vaccine-Breakthrough Infection Phenotype Includes Significant Symptoms, Live Virus Shedding, and Viral Genetic Diversity

Abstract. Little is known about severe acute respiratory syndrome coronavirus 2 “vaccine-breakthrough” infections (VBIs). Here we characterize 24 VBIs in p

academic.oup.com

The fact that the vaccine is not working for the delta strain should not surprise anyone. We have never made a vaccine for this type of rapidly mutating RNA virus. It’s not that we can’t, it’s by the time it’s made tested and distributed, its old news and won’t work for the current infection. This is exactly what Biden’s COVID czar, Dr Micheal Olsterholm, said on Rogan Back in March 2020 before lockdowns. That a vaccine isn’t practical since by the time we develop it for COVID-19 we will be worried about COVID-2020.

So the church of fauci is saying we need to get the vaccine for the delta variant, when the vaccine doesn’t work for the delta variant. Folks, Fauci is not this stupid. But he knows you guys are. This is the most obvious big pharma cash grab in history.

If the vaccine weren’t working on delta, there would be dramatically more infections than there currently are in Israel. Infection, hospitalizations and deaths are a small percentage of what they were earlier in the pandemic.

 

[colfax_m]

There was a lot of early vaccine testing in India if I remember correctly

It’s a population of over a billion. Trials are a drop in the ocean. Even now, India is somewhere less than 10% vaccinated.

 

[LordBrownTrout]

Have y’all looked into dengevaxia and antibody dependent enhancement?

Science | AAAS

www.sciencemag.org

Thanks for that link. From the study back in 2011 on the mRNA research, the test subjects all died when they received a natural virus after being injected with the mRNA. They did well with the initial injection but died when a natural virus was introduced. I fear we're going to see something similar. I hope I'm wrong.

 

[colfax_m]

Thats simply not a fact. We have lambda, epsilon, delta. There's always more pressure on a virus when it's being hit by an injection on a worldwide scale. That's fact.

Everyone of these variants came from unvaccinated population outbreaks.

Let’s explore this idea.

How does vaccination put pressure on a virus?

 

[LordBrownTrout]

I notice how you didn't even attempt to refute my post, you just went straight to insults and abuse. What a weak and pathetic move on your part, A$$hat.

Sorry it took me so long to call you on your bullshit. I was down at the farmer's market, getting some fresh from the farm treats for my dinner party tomorrow. Friends I haven't seen for a while are coming out from the city for a celebration dinner. We haven't all been together since the lockdown started. The Blue Jays are coming home next week and we're planning our first game since 2019.

It feels good to live in a country where the government didn't try to politicize the pandemic and instead, went about the business of shutting it down. Giving our citizens the facts, structures, and information we needed to keep ourselves from getting sick and dying.

They gave our hospitals the testing materials and PPE to keep their staff safe, and our health insurance system ensured that anyone who sniffled, got tested before they spread it to others.

You were stupid and gullible enough to fall for every lie. You're still being conned by right wing politicians. And you call me stupid.

I'm sitting here, fully vaxxed, in a country which has pretty much achieved the 70% threshhold of "herd immunity", which means the virus has little opportunity to spread or mutuate.

Nothing is as gullible or as stupid as the white conservative male.

Your govt politicizes the virus at every turn. Trudeau is an abhorrent leader and a disgrace to humanity.

 

[sakinago]

If the vaccine weren’t working on delta, there would be dramatically more infections than there currently are in Israel. Infection, hospitalizations and deaths are a small percentage of what they were earlier in the pandemic.

Well no shit they’re smaller. There’s a few reasons for that, the main being COVID is very much a seasonal flu. Which is why we see it abate in the northern hemispheres in the summer, but rage in the Southern Hemispheres. Then vice versa. On top of that natural immunity does seem to cover the delta variant as shown by the Israeli data I posted (I take it you didn’t even read it). Delta breakthrough in less than 1% of those who are known to have recovered from COVID. Now if they’re vaccinated people who’ve already (safe guess would be 60% of those vaccinated already had COVID), then that’ll be natural immunity, not vaccine providing protection. This also medically follows with known science. Natural immunity provides a much wider antibody profile (an antigen profile of the whole virus) than a vaccine just presenting the spike proteins of said virus.

 

[colfax_m]

Lie.

The Pfizer vaccine is about 88% effective for delta.

https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMoa2108891

 

[sakinago]

It’s a population of over a billion. Trials are a drop in the ocean. Even now, India is somewhere less than 10% vaccinated.

Still doesn’t mean a vaccine resistant variant wouldn’t arise...and *gasp* the vaccine doesn’t work for the delta. This is a rapidly mutating RNA virus (we have never made a vaccine for rapidly mutating RNA viruses as I already explained) and we’ve already recorded 2000 different variants. I don’t know why this is a shock. The data shows the vaccine isn’t working for the delta, and we have lambda coming down the pike. Why is this even an argument?

 

[Missourian]

Nope.

If you want to hypothesize the vaccine having risks 20 years out, why wouldn’t you hypothesize the same for the virus?

Because it's a non-factor. The vaccine doesn't stop infection... only symptoms... so we are all likely to be infected at some point...

"Marion Pepper, an immunologist and associate professor at the University of Washington in Seattle says that even after getting vaccinated, if someone is exposed to the virus it can take the body’s immune response some time to control an infection and the potential for transmission depends on how quickly the infection is controlled. “Most vaccines prevent disease as opposed to preventing infection,” says Anna Durbin"

Does Getting the Covid-19 Vaccine Stop You Spreading It? Scientists Don't Know Yet.

 

[LordBrownTrout]

Everyone of these variants came from unvaccinated population outbreaks.

Let’s explore this idea.

How does vaccination put pressure on a virus?

Just as antibiotics breed resistance in bacteria, vaccines can incite changes that enable diseases to escape their control. Any virus or bacteria under pressure will adapt and overcome. That's pretty common knowledge. You should know that.

 

[colfax_m]

Well no shit they’re smaller. There’s a few reasons for that, the main being COVID is very much a seasonal flu. Which is why we see it abate in the northern hemispheres in the summer, but rage in the Southern Hemispheres. Then vice versa. On top of that natural immunity does seem to cover the delta variant as shown by the Israeli data I posted (I take it you didn’t even read it). Delta breakthrough in less than 1% of those who are known to have recovered from COVID. Now if they’re vaccinated people who’ve already (safe guess would be 60% of those vaccinated already had COVID), then that’ll be natural immunity, not vaccine providing protection. This also medically follows with known science. Natural immunity provides a much wider antibody profile (an antigen profile of the whole virus) than a vaccine just presenting the spike proteins of said virus.

Israel had a huge spike in COVID in September. There’s no reason there couldn’t be an outbreak now, in June. There’s been many outbreaks in warm weather. This isn’t merely a seasonality thing.

Your guess about infection rates is a guess.

The data does not support saying the vaccine isn’t effective for delta.