Court Forces Non-Religious Mom To Get Christian Counseling Or Lose Custody Of Her Children

[JakeStarkey]

You don't know if that is true or not, and neither does the OP.

actually, we do. the local news station article does not say that she was sent there for religious sensitivity, and the quoted materials from the class do not support a religious sensitivity curriculum.
i'd also be very, very, very surprised if anyone was ever made to attend such a class.

In other words, you do not have the whole story.

Keep looking.

 

[paddymurphy]

This should shed some light on the subject. Here is a local piece on the aforementioned story.

Court-ordered religious classes raise concerns

Well that cash money angle should be looked into QUITE closely.
Still missed out on WHY the court order though.

How does the "why" matter? He can certainly order her to counseling but it violates her right to religious expression to be required to attend a religious based counseling session.

The WHY matters because the court is SUPPOSE to have grounds for its order. IF there are NO grounds you MAY have a corrupt judge.

It can have not valid reason to order her to religious counseling. It can have a valid reason to order her to counseling. And not sure how ordering her to counseling would make him corrupt.

Of course their can be valid, legal reasoning, based on the termination decrees, to order her to religious counseling.

Sorry, but there are no valid reasons that would override her First Amendment Right to religious expression. She seems to not be particularly religious. What is she were very religious. And the faith that her children were being raised in bothered her greatly? A court can order the children to be taken to and allowed to participate in religious services or education, but cannot order the mother to do so. This was a counselor the mother was ordered to attend. If it truly were heavily religious and she was required to participate, that would be a violation of her right. I suspect, however, that the counseling was rather ordinary but the therapist did offer if from a religious bent. That would not likely violate mom's rights.

 

[JakeStarkey]

No violation of the her rights if she had agreed to such in the divorce decrees. Quit talking as if you have any idea about the first amendment.

 

[Broncho4]

The judge should be removed form the bench as he is doing something unconstitutional by forcing his religious beliefs on normal people




Holly Salzman is a loving mother of two sons who lives in Albuquerque, New Mexico. She recently sought court aid in coparenting her children with their father, from whom she is now divorced. The judge then ordered her to attend sessions with a Christian counselor or face contempt of court charges and lose custody of her children.


Court Forces Non-Religious Mom To Get Christian Counseling Or Lose Custody Of Her Children

The story you cite comes from an ULTRA left wing place. So ULTRA it's called "Deep Left Field" and it does NOT give the reason WHY the court ordered her to attend.

WHY DID the court order her to attend? Drugs? Drinking? Violence? Abuse? What IS the rest of the story?

and you've never posted anything that was from a ultra far right source.
hypocrite

The question should be whether the story is accurate or not. In this case, the Judge did not order "Religious Counseling" and the posted article states. As a matter of fact, Mary Pepper ( the therapist ) denies it is religiously based. She is full of crap but there is no way for the court or judge to know that. Her offering had nothing to do with religion. Be upset at Mary Pepper not the judge or the legal system.

 

[paddymurphy]

paddy, if she is violating the court decrees in the divorce case, that judge sure can order her to religious counseling if that was part of the divorce decree.

You know repeating something does not make it right. I practice in family court. A judge cannot order a party to undergo religious counseling. End of story. Now, this may not really be religious counseling. It may simply be that the therapist likes to talk of her faith but does not require that the patient participate. There have been several cases holding that requiring a party to a case, in this case criminal defendants who certainly have less rights that litigants in family court, to attend AAA or NA meetings where religion formed the basis for the therapy violated the First Amendment. " Three federal circuit courts have held that coerced participation in 12-step programs like AA and NA violates the First Amendment. In Kerr v. Ferry, 95 F.3d 472 (7th Cir. 1996), the Seventh Circuit held that requiring an inmate to attend NA meetings or risk suffering adverse effects for parole eligibility violated the Establishment Clause. The Second Circuit reached a similar conclusion in Warner v. Orange County Department of Probation, 115 F.3d 1068 (2d Cir. 1997), striking a probation condition requiring attendance at AA meetings. And most recently the Ninth Circuit determined that a parolee’s First Amendment rights were violated when his parole officer forced him to attend 12-step meetings as a condition of his parole. Inouye v. Kemna, 504 F.3d 705 (9th Cir. 2007). In the latter two cases the courts found the law sufficiently clearly established to abrogate the officers’ qualified immunity." Does Mandatory AA/NA Violate the First Amendment?

 

[paddymurphy]

No violation of the her rights if she had agreed to such in the divorce decrees. Quit talking as if you have any idea about the first amendment.

I have more than an idea about it. I have an education and professional experience applying it. Now, of course, realizing you are losing the argument, you change the facts. Now she "agreed to such in the divorce decree". Being required to comply with what you agreed to is startlingly different from simply being forced to attend a religious based counselor without any such agreement.

 

[mdk]

You don't know if that is true or not, and neither does the OP.

I remember reading a story a few years back about a judge routing young boys to a camp for a kick back. You have in Guno's links cash being paid under the table. guno you find that court order and you MIGHT have a killer thread.

A very large scandal indeed. I am from this area and it was major news.

Kids for cash scandal - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[guno]

The judge should be removed form the bench as he is doing something unconstitutional by forcing his religious beliefs on normal people




Holly Salzman is a loving mother of two sons who lives in Albuquerque, New Mexico. She recently sought court aid in coparenting her children with their father, from whom she is now divorced. The judge then ordered her to attend sessions with a Christian counselor or face contempt of court charges and lose custody of her children.


Court Forces Non-Religious Mom To Get Christian Counseling Or Lose Custody Of Her Children

Cross grovelers piss me off to no end!!!

Sent from my BN NookHD+ using Tapatalk

Right wing goyim should be placed in mental institutions

 

[guno]

You don't know if that is true or not, and neither does the OP.

I remember reading a story a few years back about a judge routing young boys to a camp for a kick back. You have in Guno's links cash being paid under the table. guno you find that court order and you MIGHT have a killer thread.

A very large scandal indeed. I am from this area and it was major news.

Kids for cash scandal - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

He is in prison now, hoepfully getting a foot long every day

 

[ogibillm]

Let's imagine THIS scenario

Imagine the father is a Christian, and two children are likewise, and the mother is not.

Now understand THIS. Once you go into family court, they are in your business. If you don't want them there, don't end up in family court.

Now let's suppose the judge decided that mom needed to attend some sensitivity training to become a better parent to her children who wanted to be Christians against her wishes....

And boom , you have a reasonable reason for such a ruling.

If you don't think that's reasonable, it's because you're an idiot.

I don't want to imagine, that's for fools. I want to see the court order. Is the judge part of a scam? NOT the first time.

You don't know if that is true or not, and neither does the OP.

actually, we do. the local news station article does not say that she was sent there for religious sensitivity, and the quoted materials from the class do not support a religious sensitivity curriculum.
i'd also be very, very, very surprised if anyone was ever made to attend such a class.

In other words, you do not have the whole story.

Keep looking.

We don't, but we do know it wasn't sensitivity classes

 

[DarkFury]

You don't know if that is true or not, and neither does the OP.

I remember reading a story a few years back about a judge routing young boys to a camp for a kick back. You have in Guno's links cash being paid under the table. guno you find that court order and you MIGHT have a killer thread.

A very large scandal indeed. I am from this area and it was major news.

Kids for cash scandal - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

This reminds me of that. But the OP is letting his hate get in the way of what could be a killer thread. So much for his posting priorities.

 

[JakeStarkey]

Stupidest post (and most dishonest) of the day: "A judge cannot order a party to undergo religious counseling. End of story."

Beginning of story: if a court order has accepted a proposed decree jointly agreed to by all parties that religious counseling of some sort be part of the decree, then, yes, it is legal.

You know it, paddy, so stop the lying.

 

[mdk]

You don't know if that is true or not, and neither does the OP.

I remember reading a story a few years back about a judge routing young boys to a camp for a kick back. You have in Guno's links cash being paid under the table. guno you find that court order and you MIGHT have a killer thread.

A very large scandal indeed. I am from this area and it was major news.

Kids for cash scandal - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

He is in prison now, hoepfully getting a foot long every day

One of the kids ended up killing himself. He was sent to the facility for some tiny offense and they treated those kids like shit. Bastards!

 

[SmarterThanTheAverageBear]

Let's imagine THIS scenario

Imagine the father is a Christian, and two children are likewise, and the mother is not.

Now understand THIS. Once you go into family court, they are in your business. If you don't want them there, don't end up in family court.

Now let's suppose the judge decided that mom needed to attend some sensitivity training to become a better parent to her children who wanted to be Christians against her wishes....

And boom , you have a reasonable reason for such a ruling.

If you don't think that's reasonable, it's because you're an idiot.

I don't want to imagine, that's for fools. I want to see the court order. Is the judge part of a scam? NOT the first time.

You don't know if that is true or not, and neither does the OP.

actually, we do. the local news station article does not say that she was sent there for religious sensitivity, and the quoted materials from the class do not support a religious sensitivity curriculum.
i'd also be very, very, very surprised if anyone was ever made to attend such a class.

In other words, you do not have the whole story.

Keep looking.

We don't, but we do know it wasn't sensitivity classes

Why do you keep talking about sensitivity training?

A judge certainly can say " Go learn about the religion your children want to follow if you want custody"

that doesn't mean you have to become a Christian, or that the state is forcing you to do shit.

I mean you DO realize that you don't HAVE to go to family court right? You CAN divorce without going through court, I wouldn't recommend it, but you can do it.

 

[SmarterThanTheAverageBear]

Stupidest post (and most dishonest) of the day: "A judge cannot order a party to undergo religious counseling. End of story."

Beginning of story: if a court order has accepted a proposed decree jointly agreed to by all parties that religious counseling of some sort be part of the decree, then, yes, it is legal.

You know it, paddy, so stop the lying.

I don't think he does know it. Some of these people are just out and out stupid.

 

[JakeStarkey]

And a supposed practicioner in family law court is talking shit to boot, because he is an anti-Godist.

 

[daws101]

It seems she does pepper (get it, lol) her classes with some religious jazz and the money issue is troubling. The whole thing sounds fishy. I wonder if she is related to anyone in The Family Court?

Not sure but it DOES read more like a money scam then a religious one.

It looks like both. Giving people homework about God!? Having them pay in a shady fashion?! No bueno!

Religion is only the cover for the scam. The money is going to a person not the church. Always follow the money NOT the person or group the money. Where it winds up gives you who is in charge. I would call the IRS to sort this one out.

The court should not be ordering people to take a class where God seems to be a topic quite often. Homework on God? What is this CCD? lol. I would be quite surprised if the IRS isn't alerted. Shady, shady. This seems like a developing story so it will be interesting to see how it all unfolds.

Guno is attacking it on the guise of religion. HIS hate of such may have made him miss the "meat" of the story. It sounds/reads more like a corruption story. Its a good find just the wrong approach.

Even a blind pig finds a truffle now and then. Guno found something but just cannot see it for what it is.

False comparison pigs use their sense of smell to find truffles. Not their eyes .
You'd have to blind and stupid not to know that. But then again it's so you.

 

[peach174]

Opening a therapy session with prayer is not forcing anyone on religion.
Now if she had sat there and read Bible passages then that would be forcing religion on her.
Why did she not just sing a song in her head while the therapist was leading a prayer?
That is what freedom is about, not forcing religious people to not pray.

 

[jknowgood]

If a judge can make a baker to bake cake. Then he can make a woman do bible homework.

 

[guno]

When someone goes to counseling it should be based on science , not going to here some bible thumping lunatic pontificate on his/her sky fairy as court ordered

In addition she will be judged by the "counselor" and the report forwarded to the court

This so called christian "counseling" is as about as valid as going to a shaman who reads chicken entrails