CDZ Could (actual) Conservatives support this kind of single payer?

[Donald H]

Anytime the government subsidizes something, we get more of it. No system is going to be absolutely good.
So I think the private market, ran by healthcare professionals (and financial people who the MP's choose), would be the best way.
Then ad in just enough government overseeing to help insure the lies and greed are kept to a minimal.

And under no circumstances should the profits of the medical profession be allowed to go to any politicians by ways of MP's lobbying.

The first step in the process you're trying to promote depends on breaking the hold of big insurance companies that have their hooks into corrupt politicians.

In order to break that hold, government reform is obviously required.

Then perhaps your 'health care professionals' could administer a new system, but only under government control that outlaws corruption and payoffs to those professionals.

Who would those 'clean' HC professionals be and where would they come from?

I can't see anything that can eliminate corruption other than the power of the law, and that requires government. Good government works but there is probably no government that is completely free of corrupt politicians.

Don't abandon your idea! Refine it into something that could become remotely possible. The rest of the modern world has only found one answer so far. Albeit with some modifications.

 

[dblack]

Yes! Bad government allowed capitalism to run rampant and uncontrolled. And your politicians are paid by big insurance companies to keep the 'failed' system in place.

Right. The problem IS government intervention, not a lack of it.

How can that corruption be defeated so that politicians begin to demonstrate loyalty to the people and not loyalty to the insurance companies?

Take away the politicians power to grant favors to special interests. Take away their power to interfere in trade.

 

[Donald H]

I'm for just enough government intervention to keep people honest.

What would that be?
What sort of laws could be enacted that would accomplish that?

No other country is immune to that problem but no other country has such laws that completely forbid the practice.

In America the problem has already been created.
In Canada the HC system is established and the payoffs by big insurance companies to corrupt politicians isn't anywhere nearly powerful enough to destroy the HC system that the people have come to cherish so much that they will never let it go. Even though big insurance companies and rightist think tanks continue to try.

 

[Donald H]

Right. The problem IS government intervention, not a lack of it.

Take away the politicians power to grant favors to special interests. Take away their power to interfere in trade.

Yes, but what sort of law or laws will be required to do that?
I would suggest that in a democratic system the power is only in the hands of the people. That suggests that the people have to be abused enough to lead them to taking action.

 

[Cellblock2429]

I don't understand why republicans and most conservatives can't support a single payer system, ran by medical professionals. Although I do understand them not wanting it ran by our government. That's understandable. For the simple fact that the government can't run most things that benefit most of "we the people." A good example of this is the USD value. Now, $10hr is a poverty wage. Where as just south of the border, $10hr is an upper class wage.
But I digress. Fighting against a single payer system is nothing more than fighting in favor of health insurance companies. Who constantly screw the medical professionals out of a lot of money.
Healthcare has to be paid for, no matter who you are. Everyone is going to need medical help. And those that help you, will have to get paid. Insurance companies get paid by us. And they pay the MP (Medical professionals). But where they screw the MP's, is how much they pay the MPs for your care.
Example: When I was with Blue Cross Blue shield, I had an osteotomy on my knee. The hospital and doctor billed the insurance company over $100,000. That included all the doctor visits, surgeon visits, physical therapy & drugs. Blue Cross paid a little less than $3,000 in total. My doctor said that Medicare pays them better than Blue Cross. How sick is that?
Counting my premiums, the insurance company got paid a LOT more than the MP's that actually fixed my knee problem. Thousands more.
Let's be honest about this. Health insurance companies (or all of them) are nothing more than money brokers. We pay them and they pay the MP's what they want to pay them. Then they keep the rest for profits.
As a conservative, I'm always in support of cutting out the middle man.
I think the BEST way to solve this problem, is the MP's starting their own nationwide health insurance company. That way, they can own and operate within their own guidelines, with minimum government oversight. Of course, because there's trillions of dollars and millions of Americans involved, there'd have to be some oversight and regulations. But the ultimate decisions, providing there's no fraud or corruption involved, would remain with the MP's.
But in the end, the MP's (medical professionals) would be able to set their own rules, regs and policies. No more running tests that aren't actually necessary. No more endless doctor visits, being treated for something the doctors knows isn't going to be effective. (so they can get more money) No more fighting with the insurance companies as to why the doctor can't run a certain test.
Example: When my gaul stones were causing a lot of pain, the ER doctor wasn't allowed to do a sonogram because I didn't have fever. A simple test to see for sure that I had gaul stones, was not allowed by the insurance company. Not only would the test confirm the doctors suspicions. But would also show the size and scope of the stones. Which would determine if emergency surgery was needed. Or if I could wait to have the surgery.

Bottom line to this, IMO, health insurance companies are nothing more than money brokers and do nothing to help, treat or cure patients. So the ones getting 100% of the money, should be the MP's. If a single payer system is the only way to abolish insurance companies, then so be it.

/———/ Obozocare was run (not ran) by the insurance companies. And the “professionals” you clamor for are all nameless faceless career bureaucrats.

 

[YoursTruly]

/———/ Obozocare was run (not ran) by the insurance companies. And the “professionals” you clamor for are all nameless faceless career bureaucrats.

I don't disagree, But what does that have to do with another kind of insurance system, ran by medical professionals?

 

[Donald H]

Lets just cut to the chase. Government run, universal health care is the only system known to mankind that is working in the modern world.

America must fix it's government and that can only be done by popular demand.

Trump actually did acknowledge bad government.

Biden too stumbles along trying to fix same.

The most powerful politicians aren't willing to give up the big payoffs!

 

[dblack]

Yes, but what sort of law or laws will be required to do that?

To do what?

To fix health care we need to first eliminate all the laws currently driving the market stupidity. That means getting rid of the tax incentives and other regulations designed to promote employers as health care providers.

To revoke the power of Congress to manipulate the economy we'd need a Constitutional amendment. Something like we did with the First amendment to keep government out of religion.

I would suggest that in a democratic system the power is only in the hands of the people. That suggests that the people have to be abused enough to lead them to taking action.

No, "democratic systems" are what created this mess.

 

[YoursTruly]

What would that be?
What sort of laws could be enacted that would accomplish that?

Who said anything about any new laws?

No other country is immune to that problem but no other country has such laws that completely forbid the practice.

I don't care about other countries laws.

In America the problem has already been created.
In Canada the HC system is established and the payoffs by big insurance companies to corrupt politicians isn't anywhere nearly powerful enough to destroy the HC system that the people have come to cherish so much that they will never let it go. Even though big insurance companies and rightist think tanks continue to try.

Canada doesn't have our politicians.

 

[YoursTruly]

Lets just cut to the chase. Government run, universal health care is the only system known to mankind that is working in the modern world.

America must fix it's government and that can only be done by popular demand.

Trump actually did acknowledge bad government.

Biden too stumbles along trying to fix same.

The most powerful politicians aren't willing to give up the big payoffs!

The only thing Biden has done is............ Well nothing, really. At least not with anything dealing with healthcare. In fact, he praises the ACA like there's nothing wrong with it.

 

[dblack]

Lets just cut to the chase. Government run, universal health care is the only system known to mankind that is working in the modern world.

There was a time when theocracy was all the rage.

"Everybody else is doing it" is weak, especially when we have every indication that our government would turn it into a partisan mess.

 

[Staidhup]

I tend to agree with the notion that the private sector is better equipped to address and manage healthcare. Participation and oversight by government is a death nail. State barriers baring unilateral unrestricted competition, tort reform, and removal of government mandates is essential. The governments role would be better served as a financial safety net providing premium assistance, or in some cases total assistance to healthcare. The competitive open free market environment forces prices downward and serves as a mechanism against abuse. Ask this simple question, where would we be today if government controlled the technology sector, not winner’s and losers? computers, cell phones, satellite communication networks….. all would be nonexistent or limited to fixed line internet cables and dial up modems at best. Case in point, look at the federal,local, and state taxes levied on your next ISP bill. It is time to embrace the freedom to choose and remove the government from the market place.

 

[Donald H]

There was a time when theocracy was all the rage.

"Everybody else is doing it" is weak, especially when we have every indication that our government would turn it into a partisan mess.

Yes, America's government would turn it into a mess. There is far too much money at stake with corrupt politicians.

Both Trump and Biden played to very angry Americans and that's not going to go away.

Trump will make promises he doesn't intend on keeping. He would betray his very wealthy supporters if he did obviously.

And Biden's attempts are being watered down to the equivalent of failure.

You have no suggestions. Go find another thread to spam with your hopelessness.

 

[Donald H]

The only thing Biden has done is............ Well nothing, really. At least not with anything dealing with healthcare. In fact, he praises the ACA like there's nothing wrong with it.

True. HC reform is impossible when both D and R politicians are corrupt and bought off.

The ACA is worthy of some praise because it brought some solution to 'some' people. If you can't acknowledge that then there's no point in me continuing with you to explore your ideas.

 

[dblack]

You have no suggestions. Go find another thread to spam with your hopelessness.

Why do you say that? I have plenty of suggestions. I've mentioned some of them in this very thread. But here's another suggestion: if you can't handle people disagreeing with you - don't post your ideas on a political debate board.

 

[Donald H]

Who said anything about any new laws?[/uote]

I did. Insurance companies aren't going to give up huge profits out of the goodness of their hearts. Force by government is necessary.

I don't care about other countries laws.

[/QUOTE]

If you don't want a discussion then that's the way to put up roadblocks.

Canada doesn't have our politicians.

[/QUOTE]

I think they're politicians who are made of the same stuff. Our Conservative party doesn't hide the fact that they would dearly love to take down our government run system and turn it into a 'for profit' system with insurance companies operating unhindered.

A Conservative majority would start with a two-tier system which is intended to save money by downgrading HC available to the poor and middle class.

However: I'm not sure that the majority of Americans wouldn't be accepting of that?

 

[Donald H]

To do what?

To fix health care we need to first eliminate all the laws currently driving the market stupidity. That means getting rid of the tax incentives and other regulations designed to promote employers as health care providers.

To revoke the power of Congress to manipulate the economy we'd need a Constitutional amendment. Something like we did with the First amendment to keep government out of religion.

No, "democratic systems" are what created this mess.

I suggest that China's system gives them a leg up. If you have an interest in an acceptable discussion you can ask me for details and I'll explain my thinking on that.

 

[dblack]

I suggest that China's system gives them a leg up. If you have an interest in an acceptable discussion you can ask me for details and I'll explain my thinking on that.

Go for it. Are you talking about China's health care system?

 

[Cellblock2429]

I don't disagree, But what does that have to do with another kind of insurance system, ran by medical professionals?

/———/ It’s “run by” not ran by. No to your question, thh mg r go needs to get out of healthcare. They will always use it for political gain, and nothing they do is efficient. Too much waste and fraud. Just look at the VA.

 

[Donald H]

Go for it. Are you talking about China's health care system?

I'm talking about China's government system in which they aren't held back by a democratic choice of leaders in government. In China's communist system, the very brightest and the very best can be chosen to lead. Contrast that with America's system in which ignorant, prejudiced, irrational, and biased leaders are chosen.
Countries with large populations can't afford the luxury of a democracy anymore because bad cholces of leaders don't have a priority of taking care of the masses. On which China has succeeded like no other country's government in history. America has grown to the critical size population now.

Canada and less populous countries can still get away with making choices through the democratic system.