CDZ Could (actual) Conservatives support this kind of single payer?

[YoursTruly]

And of course, the drug companies would be pulling the strings behind the curtain in this Brave New World of medicine. The MPs at the top of the pecking order are, shall we say, closely aligned with the success of the drug companies.

That's definitely something to consider. Would the MP's insurance companies allow Rx to be covered in their plans? One would think so. And if that be the case, that would be money out of the MP's pockets.
In fact, without lobbyists in government, there may be some smaller drug companies that can produce Rx at a much cheaper cost, and be just as affective.
One thing I've learned about Big business, they enjoy HUGE regulations because it's keeps smaller companies from competing.

There's many different ways to look at this. And without looking at at least many of them, we may overlook the obvious.

 

[YoursTruly]

What I am poking at is that this proposed group of "Medical Professionals" would most likely be a bunch of corrupt old fossils like Dr. Fauci. It would be no better than another Federal government agency in terms of management of corruption and inefficiency. And of course there would be no powerful watchdog entity to keep this MP governing body in check.

You're looking at something that isn't even there. So it would seem, you're just making a bunch of assumptions and thinking of the worst thing that could happen. Which isn't a bad approach to something new.
Where you lack is the ability to see a problem and then come up with a solution.

 

[Turtlesoup]

I don't understand why republicans and most conservatives can't support a single payer system, ran by medical professionals. Although I do understand them not wanting it ran by our government. That's understandable. For the simple fact that the government can't run most things that benefit most of "we the people." A good example of this is the USD value. Now, $10hr is a poverty wage. Where as just south of the border, $10hr is an upper class wage.
But I digress. Fighting against a single payer system is nothing more than fighting in favor of health insurance companies. Who constantly screw the medical professionals out of a lot of money.
Healthcare has to be paid for, no matter who you are. Everyone is going to need medical help. And those that help you, will have to get paid. Insurance companies get paid by us. And they pay the MP (Medical professionals). But where they screw the MP's, is how much they pay the MPs for your care.
Example: When I was with Blue Cross Blue shield, I had an osteotomy on my knee. The hospital and doctor billed the insurance company over $100,000. That included all the doctor visits, surgeon visits, physical therapy & drugs. Blue Cross paid a little less than $3,000 in total. My doctor said that Medicare pays them better than Blue Cross. How sick is that?
Counting my premiums, the insurance company got paid a LOT more than the MP's that actually fixed my knee problem. Thousands more.
Let's be honest about this. Health insurance companies (or all of them) are nothing more than money brokers. We pay them and they pay the MP's what they want to pay them. Then they keep the rest for profits.
As a conservative, I'm always in support of cutting out the middle man.
I think the BEST way to solve this problem, is the MP's starting their own nationwide health insurance company. That way, they can own and operate within their own guidelines, with minimum government oversight. Of course, because there's trillions of dollars and millions of Americans involved, there'd have to be some oversight and regulations. But the ultimate decisions, providing there's no fraud or corruption involved, would remain with the MP's.
But in the end, the MP's (medical professionals) would be able to set their own rules, regs and policies. No more running tests that aren't actually necessary. No more endless doctor visits, being treated for something the doctors knows isn't going to be effective. (so they can get more money) No more fighting with the insurance companies as to why the doctor can't run a certain test.
Example: When my gaul stones were causing a lot of pain, the ER doctor wasn't allowed to do a sonogram because I didn't have fever. A simple test to see for sure that I had gaul stones, was not allowed by the insurance company. Not only would the test confirm the doctors suspicions. But would also show the size and scope of the stones. Which would determine if emergency surgery was needed. Or if I could wait to have the surgery.

Bottom line to this, IMO, health insurance companies are nothing more than money brokers and do nothing to help, treat or cure patients. So the ones getting 100% of the money, should be the MP's. If a single payer system is the only way to abolish insurance companies, then so be it.

So the logical thing is not to allow our corrupt government to take over as single payer---BUT to get rid of insurers. Insurers can only stay in charge because our fucking corrupt government pays them and passes laws protecting them such as my favorite where the medical providers charges 4,5,6, 7, 8 and more to CASH payers than what the insurance companies are actually charged for the exact same procedure. GET rid of this price gouging mark ups---and insurance companies lose their power and most of the fleecing of both patients and the government can end.

 

[MarathonMike]

You're looking at something that isn't even there. So it would seem, you're just making a bunch of assumptions and thinking of the worst thing that could happen. Which isn't a bad approach to something new.
Where you lack is the ability to see a problem and then come up with a solution.

You posted this in a discussion forum so I'm discussing what I see are probable problems with your Medical Professional governing body. Don't be so sensitive.

 

[YoursTruly]

You posted this in a discussion forum

And?

so I'm discussing what I see are probable problems with your Medical Professional governing body.

You are correct, Mr. Obvious. And I requested you think of a solution to the possible problem you pointed out.

Don't be so sensitive.

Trying to get you to think isn't being sensitive. Know the difference.

 

[YoursTruly]

So the logical thing is not to allow our corrupt government to take over as single payer---BUT to get rid of insurers. Insurers can only stay in charge because our fucking corrupt government pays them and passes laws protecting them such as my favorite where the medical providers charges 4,5,6, 7, 8 and more to CASH payers than what the insurance companies are actually charged for the exact same procedure. GET rid of this price gouging mark ups---and insurance companies lose their power and most of the fleecing of both patients and the government can end.

Getting rid of the health insurance companies, is going to be impossible, IMO. They, like you said, are backed by the government. The insurance lobby is extremely powerful. As we seen with Joe Lieberman (democrat) not supporting the public option. Had he not been owned by the insurance lobbyist, he would've supported a public option without question.

 

[2aguy]

I don't understand why republicans and most conservatives can't support a single payer system, ran by medical professionals. Although I do understand them not wanting it ran by our government. That's understandable. For the simple fact that the government can't run most things that benefit most of "we the people." A good example of this is the USD value. Now, $10hr is a poverty wage. Where as just south of the border, $10hr is an upper class wage.
But I digress. Fighting against a single payer system is nothing more than fighting in favor of health insurance companies. Who constantly screw the medical professionals out of a lot of money.
Healthcare has to be paid for, no matter who you are. Everyone is going to need medical help. And those that help you, will have to get paid. Insurance companies get paid by us. And they pay the MP (Medical professionals). But where they screw the MP's, is how much they pay the MPs for your care.
Example: When I was with Blue Cross Blue shield, I had an osteotomy on my knee. The hospital and doctor billed the insurance company over $100,000. That included all the doctor visits, surgeon visits, physical therapy & drugs. Blue Cross paid a little less than $3,000 in total. My doctor said that Medicare pays them better than Blue Cross. How sick is that?
Counting my premiums, the insurance company got paid a LOT more than the MP's that actually fixed my knee problem. Thousands more.
Let's be honest about this. Health insurance companies (or all of them) are nothing more than money brokers. We pay them and they pay the MP's what they want to pay them. Then they keep the rest for profits.
As a conservative, I'm always in support of cutting out the middle man.
I think the BEST way to solve this problem, is the MP's starting their own nationwide health insurance company. That way, they can own and operate within their own guidelines, with minimum government oversight. Of course, because there's trillions of dollars and millions of Americans involved, there'd have to be some oversight and regulations. But the ultimate decisions, providing there's no fraud or corruption involved, would remain with the MP's.
But in the end, the MP's (medical professionals) would be able to set their own rules, regs and policies. No more running tests that aren't actually necessary. No more endless doctor visits, being treated for something the doctors knows isn't going to be effective. (so they can get more money) No more fighting with the insurance companies as to why the doctor can't run a certain test.
Example: When my gaul stones were causing a lot of pain, the ER doctor wasn't allowed to do a sonogram because I didn't have fever. A simple test to see for sure that I had gaul stones, was not allowed by the insurance company. Not only would the test confirm the doctors suspicions. But would also show the size and scope of the stones. Which would determine if emergency surgery was needed. Or if I could wait to have the surgery.

Bottom line to this, IMO, health insurance companies are nothing more than money brokers and do nothing to help, treat or cure patients. So the ones getting 100% of the money, should be the MP's. If a single payer system is the only way to abolish insurance companies, then so be it.

i dont know where this place is but there is a surgical center run by doctors that charge the exact price that surgeries actually cost. The government is doing its best to shut them down.

 

[2aguy]

The Oklahoma Surgery Center.
That could be the model but government will wreck them

 

[2aguy]

Cash for surgeries


It was in the midst of this confounding research that Villa, who’s 68, heard about the Surgery Center of Oklahoma, whose business model is different from that of most hospitals. There, the all-inclusive price for every operation is listed on the website. A rotator-cuff repair for the shoulder costs $8,260. A surgical procedure for carpal tunnel syndrome is $2,750. Setting and casting a basic broken leg: $1,925.

The catch is that the whole facility is cash-based. It doesn’t take insurance of any kind. Not Aetna. Not Cigna. Not Medicare or Medicaid. Patients or their employers pay whatever price is listed online, period. There are no negotiated rates, no third-party reimbursements and almost no paperwork. “We say, ‘Here’s the price. Here’s what you’re getting. Here’s your bill,'” says Keith Smith, who co-founded the Surgery Center in 1997 with fellow anesthesiologist Steven Lantier. “It’s as simple as that.

To Villa, the model seemed refreshingly subversive. The Surgery Center would charge $19,000 for his whole-knee replacement, a discount of nearly 50% on what Villa expected to be charged at his local hospital. And that price would include everything from airfare to the organization’s only facility, in Oklahoma City, to medications and physical therapy. If unforeseen complications arose during or after the procedure, the Surgery Center would cover those costs. Villa wouldn’t see another bil

For a patient with an $11,000 family deductible, for example, it might make more sense to seek out a cash-based center like the Premier Medical Imaging facility in Minneapolis, which offers a basic MRI for $499, than to cough up the several thousand dollars that the same procedure generally costs at a traditional hospital. Cash payments don’t count toward a patient’s deductible, but for some it’s worth the gamble.

What Happens When Doctors Only Take Cash

Fixed-price clinics offer a glimpse at the post-Obamacare world

time.com

 

[emilynghiem]

I don't understand why republicans and most conservatives can't support a single payer system, ran by medical professionals. Although I do understand them not wanting it ran by our government. That's understandable. For the simple fact that the government can't run most things that benefit most of "we the people." A good example of this is the USD value. Now, $10hr is a poverty wage. Where as just south of the border, $10hr is an upper class wage.
But I digress. Fighting against a single payer system is nothing more than fighting in favor of health insurance companies. Who constantly screw the medical professionals out of a lot of money.
Healthcare has to be paid for, no matter who you are. Everyone is going to need medical help. And those that help you, will have to get paid. Insurance companies get paid by us. And they pay the MP (Medical professionals). But where they screw the MP's, is how much they pay the MPs for your care.
Example: When I was with Blue Cross Blue shield, I had an osteotomy on my knee. The hospital and doctor billed the insurance company over $100,000. That included all the doctor visits, surgeon visits, physical therapy & drugs. Blue Cross paid a little less than $3,000 in total. My doctor said that Medicare pays them better than Blue Cross. How sick is that?
Counting my premiums, the insurance company got paid a LOT more than the MP's that actually fixed my knee problem. Thousands more.
Let's be honest about this. Health insurance companies (or all of them) are nothing more than money brokers. We pay them and they pay the MP's what they want to pay them. Then they keep the rest for profits.
As a conservative, I'm always in support of cutting out the middle man.
I think the BEST way to solve this problem, is the MP's starting their own nationwide health insurance company. That way, they can own and operate within their own guidelines, with minimum government oversight. Of course, because there's trillions of dollars and millions of Americans involved, there'd have to be some oversight and regulations. But the ultimate decisions, providing there's no fraud or corruption involved, would remain with the MP's.
But in the end, the MP's (medical professionals) would be able to set their own rules, regs and policies. No more running tests that aren't actually necessary. No more endless doctor visits, being treated for something the doctors knows isn't going to be effective. (so they can get more money) No more fighting with the insurance companies as to why the doctor can't run a certain test.
Example: When my gaul stones were causing a lot of pain, the ER doctor wasn't allowed to do a sonogram because I didn't have fever. A simple test to see for sure that I had gaul stones, was not allowed by the insurance company. Not only would the test confirm the doctors suspicions. But would also show the size and scope of the stones. Which would determine if emergency surgery was needed. Or if I could wait to have the surgery.

Bottom line to this, IMO, health insurance companies are nothing more than money brokers and do nothing to help, treat or cure patients. So the ones getting 100% of the money, should be the MP's. If a single payer system is the only way to abolish insurance companies, then so be it.

Rand Paul, Sean Hannity and other Libertarian/Conservatives support the solution of using Medical Associations to protect and provide the best options of both govt health care and free market services.

The nonprofit cooperative model established in TX and expanding to NC and Maine has already shown this approach uses the best of all available options, secures Medicare pricing, but also elimiates deductibles and cuts out the middleman bureacract and govt waste. This is the best avenue to universal care, because it keeps the same options as govt offers, but cuts all added costs and preserves free market services and quality.

Conservatives agree to this approach.
The main objection is from Democrats and liberals who think it is more secure to depend on govt and want to keep pushing politically to force that route.

Conservatives would gladly support this if Democrats would stop pushing for govt to be in charge.

Both sides would have to settle on an agreement to support tax credits or breaks/deductions for people and businesses to provide benefits through cooperative associations.

Everyone would win.

References: Sean Hannity supports AtlasMD medical association in Wichita KS as the model to replicate. The nonprofit cooperative model based in TX offers even better benefits, group plans, and Medicare www.pdmpwebsite.org

 

[M14 Shooter]

I don't understand why republicans and most conservatives can't support a single payer system, ran by medical professionals.

Government control over a basic and essential facet of modern human life is always a terrible idea

 

[YoursTruly]

Government control over a basic and essential facet of modern human life is always a terrible idea

I'm not talking about the government running this.

 

[dblack]

I don't understand why republicans and most conservatives can't support a single payer system, ran by medical professionals.

Because it wouldn't be run by medical professionals. If a doctor's income is provided exclusively by the government, for all intents and purposes, they work for the government.

Fighting against a single payer system is nothing more than fighting in favor of health insurance companies. Who constantly screw the medical professionals out of a lot of money.

No. It's not.

Healthcare has to be paid for, no matter who you are.

Right. And here's the #1 problem with our approach to healthcare. For several decades now, we've all been preoccupied with one overriding goal when it comes to healthcare: getting someone else to pay for it. And I'm not talking about safety nets. This mindset has pervaded nearly everyone's expectations and attitudes regarding healthcare. It's built into our fantasies regarding how insurance works, and now we're demanding that government make those fantasies a reality. It can't happen, and we're just spinning our wheels imagining it can.

Health insurance companies (or all of them) are nothing more than money brokers. We pay them and they pay the MP's what they want to pay them. Then they keep the rest for profits.

Exactly. Insurance isn't a social welfare program. It's a financial hedge to guard against unexpected calamities. But we're trying to use it as a financing mechanism for all of our health care needs. That's just stupid and wasteful.

As a conservative, I'm always in support of cutting out the middle man.

We can do that without socializing healthcare. But we need to adjust our expectations and face reality. Americans aren't great at that.

 

[progressive hunter]

I don't understand why republicans and most conservatives can't support a single payer system, ran by medical professionals. Although I do understand them not wanting it ran by our government. That's understandable. For the simple fact that the government can't run most things that benefit most of "we the people." A good example of this is the USD value. Now, $10hr is a poverty wage. Where as just south of the border, $10hr is an upper class wage.
But I digress. Fighting against a single payer system is nothing more than fighting in favor of health insurance companies. Who constantly screw the medical professionals out of a lot of money.
Healthcare has to be paid for, no matter who you are. Everyone is going to need medical help. And those that help you, will have to get paid. Insurance companies get paid by us. And they pay the MP (Medical professionals). But where they screw the MP's, is how much they pay the MPs for your care.
Example: When I was with Blue Cross Blue shield, I had an osteotomy on my knee. The hospital and doctor billed the insurance company over $100,000. That included all the doctor visits, surgeon visits, physical therapy & drugs. Blue Cross paid a little less than $3,000 in total. My doctor said that Medicare pays them better than Blue Cross. How sick is that?
Counting my premiums, the insurance company got paid a LOT more than the MP's that actually fixed my knee problem. Thousands more.
Let's be honest about this. Health insurance companies (or all of them) are nothing more than money brokers. We pay them and they pay the MP's what they want to pay them. Then they keep the rest for profits.
As a conservative, I'm always in support of cutting out the middle man.
I think the BEST way to solve this problem, is the MP's starting their own nationwide health insurance company. That way, they can own and operate within their own guidelines, with minimum government oversight. Of course, because there's trillions of dollars and millions of Americans involved, there'd have to be some oversight and regulations. But the ultimate decisions, providing there's no fraud or corruption involved, would remain with the MP's.
But in the end, the MP's (medical professionals) would be able to set their own rules, regs and policies. No more running tests that aren't actually necessary. No more endless doctor visits, being treated for something the doctors knows isn't going to be effective. (so they can get more money) No more fighting with the insurance companies as to why the doctor can't run a certain test.
Example: When my gaul stones were causing a lot of pain, the ER doctor wasn't allowed to do a sonogram because I didn't have fever. A simple test to see for sure that I had gaul stones, was not allowed by the insurance company. Not only would the test confirm the doctors suspicions. But would also show the size and scope of the stones. Which would determine if emergency surgery was needed. Or if I could wait to have the surgery.

Bottom line to this, IMO, health insurance companies are nothing more than money brokers and do nothing to help, treat or cure patients. So the ones getting 100% of the money, should be the MP's. If a single payer system is the only way to abolish insurance companies, then so be it.

its ran by the government not doctors,,,

 

[progressive hunter]

I'm not talking about the government running this.

but they are,,

 

[M14 Shooter]

I'm not talking about the government running this.

Yes you are.
You may not realize it, but you are.

 

[YoursTruly]

Yes you are.
You may not realize it, but you are.

No I'm not. You're the one not understanding.
I'm talking about the medical professionals running their own nationwide system of insurance. Where premiums are paid into their system, or company or what ever it might be.
The only time the government gets involved are laws that help protect the innocent. To ensure malpractice is punished. To make sure people within the MP's are scamming. And things of that nature.
No money has to go to the government, what so ever, with the MP's own health insurance.

 

[M14 Shooter]

No I'm not. You're the one not understanding.
I'm talking about the medical professionals running their own nationwide system of insurance. Where premiums are paid into their system, or company or what ever it might be.

How is this meaningfully different than today?

 

[YoursTruly]

How is this meaningfully different than today?

Because the for profit insurance companies are funding the for profit MP's. So the ONLY thing this does is take out the middle man.
Seriously, does it matter if your checks deductions go to your local hospital or the hospitals own insurance plan?
No. The ONLY thing that matters is getting the care we need, when we need it, at an affordable price.
Healthcare becomes more affordable when their less bureaucracy and no middle man.
As of now, you'll have 4 doctors in one office, with a staff of at least 10 women to do all the administration work. Everything from setting appointments to billing each insurance company. And many times, they're fighting with insurance companies trying to get paid for a patient they seen 6 weeks ago.
How inefficient is that? But when your doctor is hooked up under one entity, that's ran by their own, the only bureaucracy is within them selves. And not with their own huge staff, and the huge staff of each and every insurance company.
Cut out the profits and the bureaucracy of the insurance companies, allow the MP's to sell their own insurance (even if it's within each state), the cost of healthcare will drop.

I mean seriously, I don't mind the medical professionals getting filthy rich, because they're part of a system that actually helps people. Insurance companies only broker money. (when you get right down to it). And their CEO's are getting filthy rich in the process.

 

[M14 Shooter]

Because the for profit insurance companies are funding the for profit MP's. So the ONLY thing this does is take out the middle man.

Doesn't it keep the middle man?
Instead of for-profit insurance companies paying the medical bills, its just (presumably) not for profit consortium?
How is this an advantage?

Seriously, does it matter if your checks deductions go to your local hospital or the hospitals own insurance plan?
No. The ONLY thing that matters is getting the care we need, when we need it, at an affordable price.

^^^
This is why medical costs are so high.
Insulating the consumer from the actual costs of the goods and services he receives leads to consumers not caring how much those goods and services cost, as they just pay a small monthly premium.

Want to drive down costs and improve quality of care?
Get rid of insurance altogether.