Cost of Wind vs. Fossil Fuels (Montana Environmental Info center)

[Harry Dresden]

So much for ALL of elektra's Cost and 'Dirty Wind' posts/lies.
He never puts up the Ongoing cost or Pollution of coal.
NEVER any Comparison of cost OR emissions between the two.
Just a lot of BIG NUMBERS re Wind turbines.
Wind is Cheaper than Hydroelectric dams in Montana!
This from the Montana Environmental Information Center.
(a/o 2015/2021, and Wind gets more efficient/Cheaper every Year due to Turbine efficiency improvements)

Cost of Wind vs. Fossil Fuels
Montant Environmental Energy Center

In Montana, wind energy is cost-competitive with fossil fuels, especially coal.
In fact, wind energy is Less much less expensive than coal for customers of NorthWestern Energy – the state’s largest utility.

The graph below comes from data from the Montana Public Service Commission and it compares the costs of various resources in NorthWestern’s portfolio.
The Judith Gap wind facility is about $32.11 per megawatt-hour (or 3.1 cents per kilowatt-hour) while the coal-fired Colstrip Unit 4 is about $64.55 per megawatt-hour or (6.4 cents per kilowatt hour).

Nationally, financial analyst firm Lazard found in December 2016 unsubsidized wind projects costing between $32 and $62 per megawatt-hour while coal cost between $57 and $148 per megawatt-hour.

Updated in 2021: Here’s a chart of the cost of renewable energy per megawatt hour.

[............]

Cost of Wind vs. Fossil Fuels - MEIC

When comparing the cost of wind vs. fossil fuels its important to consider fuel costs, integration costs, operating costs, and the cost of tax incentives.

meic.org

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its abu farook the climate denier....

 

[jotathought]

So that is the goal, and I suspect it will be substantially reached. That didn't answer the question though. Name someone who says we should not consider sustainability before the transition is completed.

Gavin Newsom .. on top of it, his policy to phase out fossil fuel vehicles is already underway, with an ambitious goal of prohibiting the sale of fossil fuel vehicles in the next 10-15 years... and putting MORE demand on their already failing power grid.

 

[BULLDOG]

So a predator seeking its prey justifies a man-made device that introduces environmental consequences to air, land and sea?

A predator seeking it's prey demonstrates you are whining about a comparatively tiny number. 1/4188 is smaller than tiny.

 

[BULLDOG]

Gavin Newsom .. on top of it, his policy to phase out fossil fuel vehicles is already underway, with an ambitious goal of prohibiting the sale of fossil fuel vehicles in the next 10-15 years... and putting MORE demand on their already failing power grid.

You should look up the definition of "GOAL"

 

[Harry Dresden]

its abu farook the climate denier....

thats not fake news farook....you denied it.....

 

[BULLDOG]

abu afak apparently doesn't answer the cost to production comparison, especially since wind farms produce substantially less megawatts than fossil fuel equivalent, and cost as much if not more to build and maintain. The answer to the question was 135 Megawatts for the wind farm, and 1300 Megawatts for the coal power plant. Natural gas is even more efficient and costs less per Megawatt.

 

[abu afak]

abu afak apparently doesn't answer the cost to production comparison, especially since wind farms produce substantially less megawatts than fossil fuel equivalent, and cost as much if not more to build and maintain. The answer to the question was 135 Megawatts for the wind farm, and 1300 Megawatts for the coal power plant. Natural gas is even more efficient and costs less per Megawatt.

I have at least started the Comparison.
The DISHONEST Elektra has FOUR threads up about 'Dirty Wind Turbines' (and one falling down) and NOT One comparison to Really Dirty Coal!
NOT ONE!!
No Coal mine collapses/explosions/black lung?
Where have you been your Stupid Biased ****head?
No questions for him in his Wind Bashing last week that was the very reason for my thread?
(Mine by an Environmental Group no less)
You didn't notice?
Why haven't you looked it up
You Willfully ignorant jurk
Use Google.
I will keep doing so.

Where is his cost of Black Lung?
Ongoing Coal delivery/Price for 20 years compared to just ONE for Wind.
20 Years of Daily CO2 emissions/warming.
Natl Particulate Lung disease?
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[Harry Dresden]

I have at least started the Comparison.
The DISHONEST Elektra has FOUR threads up about 'Dirty Wind Turbines' and NOT One comparison Really Dirty Coal
NOT ONE!!
Where have you been your Stupid Biased Shlthead?
No questions for him in his Wind Bashing last week that was the very reason for my thread?
(by an Environmental Group no less)
You didn't notice?
Why haven't you looked it up
You Willfully ignorant jurk
Use Google.
I will keep doing so.
`

farook why did you deny the weather i posted about las vegas?.....come on dont run like you did in that thread,give me your reason.....

 

[toobfreak]

Heartland institute is an infamous PAID Oil Lobby website
Previously started as a Shill for the Tobacco lobby.

Sorry, Booby, but the only way wind or solar will EVER be is if you can figure out a way of converting both DIRECTLY into electricity. So long as you need costly turbines or solar panels, both of which are high maintenance and short-lived, they will always be far more expensive.

Coal is so cheap and easy to burn, flowing water so easy to spin turbines and nuclear so efficient, only a FOOL would think wind and solar can compete.

Likewise, they are only "free" AFTER you build the turbines and panels which are costly and very damaging to the environment.

 

[Harry Dresden]

farook why did you deny the weather i posted about las vegas?.....come on dont run like you did in that thread,give me your reason.....

come on farook dont be a pussy.....tell me why?....

 

[abu afak]

farook why did you deny the weather i posted about las vegas?.....come on dont run like you did in that thread,give me your reason.....

Huh?
I have no idea what you're talking about, but if it's indeed "Weather," it has no relevance to Warming/Global Warming/Climate Change. (or wind vs coal)
You Moron.
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[Harry Dresden]

Huh?
I have no idea what you're talking about, but if it's indeed "Weather," it has no relevance to Warming/Global Warming/Climate Change. (or wind vs coal)
You Moron.
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in a thread about global warming just a few days ago i mentioned that here in vegas we havent had a 100 degree day yet this month when usually we would have a dozen of them by now....you gave me a thumbs down for saying that....i would like to know why.....so lets hear it...

 

[abu afak]

in a thread about global warming just a few days ago i mentioned that here in vegas we havent had a 100 degree day yet this month when usually we would have a dozen of them by now....you gave me a thumbs down for saying that....i would like to know why.....so lets hear it...

Because it's local temporary WEATHER.
Meanwhile there's is a record Heat Wave Right NOW in the Southwest/Texas.
And another Huge Record Heatwave in India/China NOW.

But it might be cold in Brazil/Argentina!
F*** Las Vegas you moron.
See the problem yet you idiot
The issue is not about your backyard or even regional Daily WEATHER.

Too stupid to debate.
Welcome to USMB.

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[Harry Dresden]

Because it's local temporary WEATHER.
Meanwhile there's is a record Heat Wave Right NOW in the Southwest/Texas.
And another Record Heatwave in India/China NOW.

But in might be cold in Brazil!
F*** Las Vegas you moron.

See the problem yet you idiot
The issue is not about your backyard or erven regional Daily WEATHER.

Too stupid to debate.

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so why didnt you say that there asshole?....and yea it might be cold in brazil because its winter down there dumbass....talk about to stupid to debate....you dont debate shit when you run from a thread like you do quite often....

 

[abu afak]

so why didnt you say that there asshole?....and yea it might be cold in brazil because its winter down there dumbass....talk about to stupid to debate....you dont debate shit when you run from a thread like you do quite often....

Because you deserved the feedback/discounting I gave.
Most here know that posting weather is Bush league/idiotic.
The Issue here is about GLOBAL WARMING, not your backyard.

And after years you didn't know the snow (or not) in your backward has nothing to do with GW/AGW
IOW you admit you are not worth a response, but a laugh/mock/mere feedback.
Don't expect any more answers kindergarten boy..
So many posts/mbs and you still don't know shlt about a basic issue.
Bye.
`

 

[1srelluc]

Blah, companies use the subsidies to build the farms, operate them till they fall into disrepair, then dissolve and abandon them.....It's all one big grift since they make generous "donations" to their political benefactors.

Nobody is on the hook for their removal but the taxpayer.

Then it gets really 'grifty' when the land is cleared and another company comes along and does the same thing. We, indeed the whole western world, is being played to the tune of trillions.

 

[jotathought]

You should look up the definition of "GOAL"

Why? It is a goal, that won't be successful, and answered your question about maintaining sustainability before the transition is completed. California's current situation with their power grid is UNABLE to support the current demands .. and Newsom is planning to abolish fossil fuels and be 90% renewable in 12 years -- and 100% in 22 years .. Clearly not considering sustainability while adding more dependency and demand on the power grid.

So yes .. Goal .. and guess what .. many fail on the goals they've set .. especially in the name of 100% renewable energy.

 

[jotathought]

Oh .. what a pretty bar graph .. yet .. it doesn't take into account the lack of power delivery that introduces substantial environmental impacts .. and cost as much if not more than fossil fuel, especially natural gas. Where is that in the graph?

 

[jotathought]

I have at least started the Comparison.
The DISHONEST Elektra has FOUR threads up about 'Dirty Wind Turbines' (and one falling down) and NOT One comparison to Really Dirty Coal!
NOT ONE!!
No Coal mine collapses/explosions/black lung?
Where have you been your Stupid Biased ****head?
No questions for him in his Wind Bashing last week that was the very reason for my thread?
(Mine by an Environmental Group no less)
You didn't notice?
Why haven't you looked it up
You Willfully ignorant jurk
Use Google.
I will keep doing so.

Where is his cost of Black Lung?
Ongoing Coal delivery/Price for 20 years compared to just ONE for Wind.
20 Years of Daily CO2 emissions/warming.
Natl Particulate Lung disease?
`
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You're looking from a single perspective of renewable vs. fossil fuels ... yet .. renewable energy requires a substantially more infrastructure, costs as much if not more and most often creates environmental consequences. The two wind farms create a total of 175 Megawatts when in full production. When .. meaning .. they have to be spinning at full velocity, which isn't going to be the case 24x7. Reliability is also a problem, as they won't provide consistent results.

Good idea as a supplement .. not a great resource for 100% renewable energy..

 

[BULLDOG]

Why? It is a goal, that won't be successful, and answered your question about maintaining sustainability before the transition is completed. California's current situation with their power grid is UNABLE to support the current demands .. and Newsom is planning to abolish fossil fuels and be 90% renewable in 12 years -- and 100% in 22 years .. Clearly not considering sustainability while adding more dependency and demand on the power grid.

So yes .. Goal .. and guess what .. many fail on the goals they've set .. especially in the name of 100% renewable energy.

Which is why the transition won't be complete until the technology is able to meet the demand. You seem to think we will eliminate all fosile fuel sources before renewables are able to meet the demand. That's childish and dumb.