Cost of Bakhmut ‘meat grinder’ battle on Russian army revealed

[toomuchtime_]

No, it doesn´t.



No imports, no own production are accounted. And we can only assume that the two years are a long guess. It could be more.

The two year estimate was for present stock of resources b

No, it doesn´t.



No imports, no own production are accounted. And we can only assume that the two years are a long guess. It could be more.

From your link:

if you look at what Russia has today, such as the strategic reserve, equipment, ammunition, armaments - it can wage it at the present intensity for two years," he added.

Clearly, this does not include imports of ammo, so if Russia has enough ammo on hand for two of intense fighting, why is it placing large orders for ammo with Iran now? And why can't Russia adequately supply Wagner with ammo?

 

[Bleipriester]

The two year estimate was for present stock of resources b

From your link:

if you look at what Russia has today, such as the strategic reserve, equipment, ammunition, armaments - it can wage it at the present intensity for two years," he added.

Clearly, this does not include imports of ammo, so if Russia has enough ammo on hand for two of intense fighting, why is it placing large orders for ammo with Iran now? And why can't Russia adequately supply Wagner with ammo?

Who knows? We can´t know if the shipments are even true? Did they look into the containers? Did they personally count 100 million bullets? We don´t know. Wagner is apparently in a dispute with the Kremlin. What is behind that? We don´t know. All we know is that Wagner is advancing in Bakhmut and that is not a hint at a ammunition shortage.

 

[toomuchtime_]

Who knows? We can´t know if the shipments are even true? Did they look into the containers? Did they personally count 100 million bullets? We don´t know. Wagner is apparently in a dispute with the Kremlin. What is behind that? We don´t know. All we know is that Wagner is advancing in Bakhmut and that is not a hint at a ammunition shortage.

A few posts ago you had no trouble believing Iran had sent all this ammo to Russia, but now you are full of doubt. No one is hinting at an ammo shortage except Prigozhin, and again, you are claiming to know better than him about ammo shortages.

 

[Bleipriester]

A few posts ago you had no trouble believing Iran had sent all this ammo to Russia, but now you are full of doubt. No one is hinting at an ammo shortage except Prigozhin, and again, you are claiming to know better than him about ammo shortages.

Im post 96 I wrote:

"If true, Iran can deliver more than the entire west."

We should debate seriously or it doesn´t make any sense.

As for Prigozhin, I worte that he didn´t say that they have no ammo. He said they don´t get ammo from the military.

 

[toomuchtime_]

Im post 96 I wrote:

"If true, Iran can deliver more than the entire west."

We should debate seriously or it doesn´t make any sense.

As for Prigozhin, I worte that he didn´t say that they have no ammo. He said they don´t get ammo from the military.

Since Wagner has been the most successful group of soldiers, if the have the ammo, why wouldn't they deliver it to him?

 

[para bellum]

As for Prigozhin, I worte that he didn´t say that they have no ammo. He said they don´t get ammo from the military.

Where do you think he gets it?

 

[Bleipriester]

Since Wagner has been the most successful group of soldiers, if the have the ammo, why wouldn't they deliver it to him?

I can imagine that Prigozhin tried to convert his military weight into political. And again, we should know if Wagner has ammunition deliveries by the military in the contract with the government. As private army, Wagner should have its own contracts with arms manufacturers and its own infrastructure. If that failed and the army wasn´t prepared to supply an apparently huge private army, this could also be a reason for such a dispute, because Prigozhin can argue that Wagner is the spearhead in and around Bakhmut.

 

[Bleipriester]

Where do you think he gets it?

I posted his statement here in the thread.

 

[para bellum]

I posted his statement here in the thread.

He said:

"Believe me, we are doing everything for this, even if we still do not get ammunition, military equipment, weapons and transport. By the way, we only got bomb spades after almost a month."

He has been griping about the MoD cutting his ammo supplies for 2 weeks now. There was one day where he announced he had resolved it and there was ammunition coming, but it wasn't long after that he was back to complaining about being cut off again.

So he has received some, just not all he is asking for.

His spat with Shoigu is very public, and there has been a lot of complaining on Russian telegram channels about Wagner getting the lion's share of the ammunition- there is one Russian volunteer that goes by the handle "thirteenth". I can't type it in Russian but you should be able to find him. He's written a lot about it and posted some pilfered Wagner documentation that caused a big fluff in the MoD.

Wagner does not have it's own ammunition logistics into Ukraine. Wagner has bases in Ukraine, and trucks and storage areas, and moves it's own materiel- but it all comes into Ukraine by rail or bridge from the MoD, and Wagner collects it at the depots. They may have agreements on reimbursements in the contracts, who knows.

But the bottom line is this- if the MoD does not send ammo to Wagner, Wagner will have no ammo.

 

[Bleipriester]

He said:

"Believe me, we are doing everything for this, even if we still do not get ammunition, military equipment, weapons and transport. By the way, we only got bomb spades after almost a month."

He has been griping about the MoD cutting his ammo supplies for 2 weeks now. There was one day where he announced he had resolved it and there was ammunition coming, but it wasn't long after that he was back to complaining about being cut off again.

So he has received some, just not all he is asking for.

His spat with Shoigu is very public, and there has been a lot of complaining on Russian telegram channels about Wagner getting the lion's share of the ammunition- there is one Russian volunteer that goes by the handle "thirteenth". I can't type it in Russian but you should be able to find him. He's written a lot about it and posted some pilfered Wagner documentation that caused a big fluff in the MoD.

Wagner does not have it's own ammunition logistics into Ukraine. Wagner has bases in Ukraine, and trucks and storage areas, and moves it's own materiel- but it all comes into Ukraine by rail or bridge from the MoD, and Wagner collects it at the depots. They may have agreements on reimbursements in the contracts, who knows.

But the bottom line is this- if the MoD does not send ammo to Wagner, Wagner will have no ammo.

We can´t know. Your own Dimitri-source has two versions of which a maximum of one can be true.

 

[para bellum]

We can´t know. Your own Dimitri-source has two versions of which a maximum of one can be true.

Are you talking about the video? The translation is Dmitri's. There is another video with a translation I think that might be slightly different, but the original is from Russian telegram- the source is the 136th Separate Guards Motorized Rifle Brigade based in Dagestan.

This isn't a "we refuse to fight" video- it's a "don't send us to Vuhledar and send our ammunition to Bakhmut" video...

 

[Litwin]

 

[Litwin]

 

[Litwin]

 

[Litwin]

 

[Kruska]

An amusing issue - if on one hand it is said that Putin is a ruthless dictator who control everything and everyone, and rids himself of any opposition or as to what he does with people he deems to be traitors.

But on the other hand supposedly allows for open public discussions and disunion between Shoigu and Prigozhin, with both parties pointing out numerous deficiencies within the Russian Armed Forces and those of the Wagner group. (As such both would be traitors (discussing publicly national security matters).