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Correlation between atheism and statism

Votto

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I have noticed over the years that atheists tend to gravitate towards socialism/statism/communism etc. and those of faith tend to be for limited government and be more conservative. We even see Mr. socialist himself, Karl Marx, refer to religion as an opiate. We also have examples of statists, like in the former USSR, Cuba, China etc., where religion has been condemned and those of faith persecuted or even killed for their faith. In addition, Europe, which is mostly socialist, has one of the largest, if not the largest, percentage of atheists.

Am I the only one who sees this and is there a reason why?

This is my theory, we are all burdened with an inner voice calling us to act in a moral fashion, and those that we look up to in authority are the ones who help shape our morality. So this authority could be the state, or the church, or our parents, or our peers etc. However, we are all influenced by the state whether we admit to it or not. Case in point is slavery in the US back in the 1800's. When it was legalized, people by in large said it was "OK". However, centuries after it being outlawed the general consensus is that it is immoral and evil. It is clear evidence that we are lemmings. So those that place the state above God naturally gravitate like sheep towards it. As the scriptures say, we are all sheep, and it shows historically. All that is required is choosing a shepherd I suppose, so choose carefully.
 
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LOki

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I have noticed over the years that atheists tend to gravitate towards socialism/statism/communism etc. and those of faith tend to be for limited government and be more conservative. We even see Mr. socialist himself, Karl Marx, refer to religion as an opiate. We also have examples of statists, like in the former USSR, Cuba, China etc., where religion has been condemned and those of faith persecuted or even killed for their faith. In addition, Europe, which is mostly socialist, has one of the largest, if not the largest, percentage of atheists.

Am I the only one who sees this and is there a reason why?

This is my theory, we are all burdened with an inner voice calling us to act in a moral fashion, and those that we look up to in authority are the ones who help shape our morality. So this authority could be the state, or the church, or our parents, or our peers etc. However, we are all influenced by the state whether we admit to it or not. Case in point is slavery in the US back in the 1800's. When it was legalized, people by in large said it was "OK". However, centuries after it being outlawed the general consensus is that it is immoral and evil. It is clear evidence that we are lemmings. So those that place the state above God naturally gravitate like sheep towards it. As the scriptures say, we are all sheep, and it shows historically. All that is required is choosing a shepherd I suppose, so choose carefully.
No correlation between theism and theocracy? No correlation between theism and rule by divine right? No correlation between theism and every monarchy? No correlation between theism and over 3,000 years of dictatorships, republics, and democracies all anointed and legitimized by various priesthoods? Really? None worth considering? None?

Tell me about the correlation you see between theism and anarchism.
 

JakeStarkey

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Those of more conservative faith gravitate toward dictatorships, fascist governments, and monarchies.
 
OP
Votto

Votto

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I have noticed over the years that atheists tend to gravitate towards socialism/statism/communism etc. and those of faith tend to be for limited government and be more conservative. We even see Mr. socialist himself, Karl Marx, refer to religion as an opiate. We also have examples of statists, like in the former USSR, Cuba, China etc., where religion has been condemned and those of faith persecuted or even killed for their faith. In addition, Europe, which is mostly socialist, has one of the largest, if not the largest, percentage of atheists.

Am I the only one who sees this and is there a reason why?

This is my theory, we are all burdened with an inner voice calling us to act in a moral fashion, and those that we look up to in authority are the ones who help shape our morality. So this authority could be the state, or the church, or our parents, or our peers etc. However, we are all influenced by the state whether we admit to it or not. Case in point is slavery in the US back in the 1800's. When it was legalized, people by in large said it was "OK". However, centuries after it being outlawed the general consensus is that it is immoral and evil. It is clear evidence that we are lemmings. So those that place the state above God naturally gravitate like sheep towards it. As the scriptures say, we are all sheep, and it shows historically. All that is required is choosing a shepherd I suppose, so choose carefully.
No correlation between theism and theocracy? No correlation between theism and rule by divine right? No correlation between theism and every monarchy? No correlation between theism and over 3,000 years of dictatorships, republics, and democracies all anointed and legitimized by various priesthoods? Really? None worth considering? None?

Tell me about the correlation you see between theism and anarchism.

If you have noticed, theocracies generally devolve into despotic regimes, for the two do not go together. In effect, the state speaks for God, which is not much different than the state declaring there is no God.

In terms of anarchism, it is of interest that in the Bible God supposidly sets up a government in Israel whereby the people have no real government, other than a group of judges to settle disputes among the people. However, the people look around at the other nations and demand a king. Although God warns them of the abuses they will encounter at the hands of a sinful man, they persist and God gives them what they desire. It is an interesting read and is in 1 Samuel 8.
 

LOki

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I have noticed over the years that atheists tend to gravitate towards socialism/statism/communism etc. and those of faith tend to be for limited government and be more conservative. We even see Mr. socialist himself, Karl Marx, refer to religion as an opiate. We also have examples of statists, like in the former USSR, Cuba, China etc., where religion has been condemned and those of faith persecuted or even killed for their faith. In addition, Europe, which is mostly socialist, has one of the largest, if not the largest, percentage of atheists.

Am I the only one who sees this and is there a reason why?

This is my theory, we are all burdened with an inner voice calling us to act in a moral fashion, and those that we look up to in authority are the ones who help shape our morality. So this authority could be the state, or the church, or our parents, or our peers etc. However, we are all influenced by the state whether we admit to it or not. Case in point is slavery in the US back in the 1800's. When it was legalized, people by in large said it was "OK". However, centuries after it being outlawed the general consensus is that it is immoral and evil. It is clear evidence that we are lemmings. So those that place the state above God naturally gravitate like sheep towards it. As the scriptures say, we are all sheep, and it shows historically. All that is required is choosing a shepherd I suppose, so choose carefully.
No correlation between theism and theocracy? No correlation between theism and rule by divine right? No correlation between theism and every monarchy? No correlation between theism and over 3,000 years of dictatorships, republics, and democracies all anointed and legitimized by various priesthoods? Really? None worth considering? None?

Tell me about the correlation you see between theism and anarchism.

If you have noticed, theocracies generally devolve into despotic regimes, for the two do not go together.
You obviously cannot hear what you're saying over your cognitive dissonance.

In effect, the state speaks for God, which is not much different than the state declaring there is no God.
This is a nifty bit of self-contradiction.

In terms of anarchism, it is of interest that in the Bible God supposidly sets up a government in Israel whereby the people have no real government, other than a group of judges to settle disputes among the people. However, the people look around at the other nations and demand a king. Although God warns them of the abuses they will encounter at the hands of a sinful man, they persist and God gives them what they desire. It is an interesting read and is in 1 Samuel 8.
Interesting that there is no positive correlation worth mentioning to be made between theism and anarchism. Good to get that out of the way.

How about a correlation between atheism and anarchism?
 

konradv

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I have noticed over the years that atheists tend to gravitate towards socialism/statism/communism etc. and those of faith tend to be for limited government and be more conservative. We even see Mr. socialist himself, Karl Marx, refer to religion as an opiate. We also have examples of statists, like in the former USSR, Cuba, China etc., where religion has been condemned and those of faith persecuted or even killed for their faith. In addition, Europe, which is mostly socialist, has one of the largest, if not the largest, percentage of atheists.

Am I the only one who sees this and is there a reason why?

This is my theory, we are all burdened with an inner voice calling us to act in a moral fashion, and those that we look up to in authority are the ones who help shape our morality. So this authority could be the state, or the church, or our parents, or our peers etc. However, we are all influenced by the state whether we admit to it or not. Case in point is slavery in the US back in the 1800's. When it was legalized, people by in large said it was "OK". However, centuries after it being outlawed the general consensus is that it is immoral and evil. It is clear evidence that we are lemmings. So those that place the state above God naturally gravitate like sheep towards it. As the scriptures say, we are all sheep, and it shows historically. All that is required is choosing a shepherd I suppose, so choose carefully.

You hear voices?!?! Why should we listen to you? :eusa_eh:
 
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Votto

Votto

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I have noticed over the years that atheists tend to gravitate towards socialism/statism/communism etc. and those of faith tend to be for limited government and be more conservative. We even see Mr. socialist himself, Karl Marx, refer to religion as an opiate. We also have examples of statists, like in the former USSR, Cuba, China etc., where religion has been condemned and those of faith persecuted or even killed for their faith. In addition, Europe, which is mostly socialist, has one of the largest, if not the largest, percentage of atheists.

Am I the only one who sees this and is there a reason why?

This is my theory, we are all burdened with an inner voice calling us to act in a moral fashion, and those that we look up to in authority are the ones who help shape our morality. So this authority could be the state, or the church, or our parents, or our peers etc. However, we are all influenced by the state whether we admit to it or not. Case in point is slavery in the US back in the 1800's. When it was legalized, people by in large said it was "OK". However, centuries after it being outlawed the general consensus is that it is immoral and evil. It is clear evidence that we are lemmings. So those that place the state above God naturally gravitate like sheep towards it. As the scriptures say, we are all sheep, and it shows historically. All that is required is choosing a shepherd I suppose, so choose carefully.

You hear voices?!?! Why should we listen to you? :eusa_eh:

Make your own observations. Have you noticed that atheists tend to support big government?
 

LOki

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I have noticed over the years that atheists tend to gravitate towards socialism/statism/communism etc. and those of faith tend to be for limited government and be more conservative. We even see Mr. socialist himself, Karl Marx, refer to religion as an opiate. We also have examples of statists, like in the former USSR, Cuba, China etc., where religion has been condemned and those of faith persecuted or even killed for their faith. In addition, Europe, which is mostly socialist, has one of the largest, if not the largest, percentage of atheists.

Am I the only one who sees this and is there a reason why?

This is my theory, we are all burdened with an inner voice calling us to act in a moral fashion, and those that we look up to in authority are the ones who help shape our morality. So this authority could be the state, or the church, or our parents, or our peers etc. However, we are all influenced by the state whether we admit to it or not. Case in point is slavery in the US back in the 1800's. When it was legalized, people by in large said it was "OK". However, centuries after it being outlawed the general consensus is that it is immoral and evil. It is clear evidence that we are lemmings. So those that place the state above God naturally gravitate like sheep towards it. As the scriptures say, we are all sheep, and it shows historically. All that is required is choosing a shepherd I suppose, so choose carefully.

You hear voices?!?! Why should we listen to you? :eusa_eh:

Make your own observations. Have you noticed that atheists tend to support big government?
I have noticed that atheists are less likely to support big government than theists, who are natural authoritarian boot-lickers.
 
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Votto

Votto

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This is a nifty bit of self-contradiction.


How about a correlation between atheism and anarchism?

I realize that it seems like a contradiction to you. Let me splain.

When sinful man speaks for God, assuming he exists, then hilarity ensues, as we have seen hisotorically.

When the state declares there is no God, or runs as if there is no God, then they become the moral authority.

As we can see, a moral authority exists either way as only man is at the helm.

There are differences between the two, however. When men speak for God they tend to use violence as more of a tool, as we see in the Middle East today and the Dark Ages in Europe in the past. However, when the state is a secular democracy morality is forced upon us in a different manner. The message is not that God desires it, but that we need to do what is best for society at large and do "our fair share". We then become drowned in a bureaucratic web of never ending rules as the moral busy bodies try to govern our every step. In fact, I heard that last year that government passed about 40.000 regulations. And as we can all attest, the more laws that are passed the less free we become, so our freedom seems to be fleeting every year. So instead of killing human will, as is seen with theocracies, the human will is subdued. These statists cover soceity with a small network of complicated rules through which the most original minds and energetic characters cannot penetrate and rise above the crowd. So the will of man is not shattered, but softened or bent. Seldom are men forced to act, but they are constantly restrained from acting. Such a power does not destroy, like in a despotic theocracy, however, it helps prevent existence.

In the back drop of all this is the awareness of our inner conscience that demands a moral guidpost. So if God is out, then all that is left is for the tutelage of the nanny state. Laws are then amassed to give us such moral guidence.
 
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Mad Scientist

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I have noticed over the years that atheists tend to gravitate towards socialism/statism/communism etc. and those of faith tend to be for limited government and be more conservative. We even see Mr. socialist himself, Karl Marx, refer to religion as an opiate. We also have examples of statists, like in the former USSR, Cuba, China etc., where religion has been condemned and those of faith persecuted or even killed for their faith. In addition, Europe, which is mostly socialist, has one of the largest, if not the largest, percentage of atheists.

Am I the only one who sees this and is there a reason why?
The People can't be made to worship the State if they're worshiping God.
 

LOki

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I realize that it seems like a contradiction to you. Let me splain.

When sinful man speaks for God, assuming he exists, then hilarity ensues, as we have seen hisotorically.

When the state declares there is no God, or runs as if there is no God, then they become the moral authority.

As we can see, a moral authority exists either way as only man is at the helm.

There are differences between the two, however. When men speak for God they tend to use violence as more of a tool, as we see in the Middle East today and the Dark Ages in Europe in the past. However, when the state is a secular democracy morality is forced upon us in a different manner. The message is not that God desires it, but that we need to do what is best for society at large and do "our fair share". We then become drowned in a bureaucratic web of never ending rules as the moral busy bodies try to govern our every step. In fact, I heard that last year that government passed about 40.000 regulations. And as we can all attest, the more laws that are passed the less free we become, so our freedom seems to be fleeting every year. So instead of killing human will, as is seen with theocracies, the human will is subdued. These statists cover soceity with a small network of complicated rules through which the most original minds and energetic characters cannot penetrate and rise above the crowd. So the will of man is not shattered, but softened or bent. Seldom are men forced to act, but they are constantly restrained from acting. Such a power does not destroy, like in a despotic theocracy, however, it helps prevent existence.

In the back drop of all this is the awareness of our inner conscience that demands a moral guidpost. So if God is out, then all that is left is for the tutelage of the nanny state. Laws are then amassed to give us such moral guidence.
Excellent. You were clearly contradicting yourself then, and atheism has a stronger correlation with anarchism than theism does.

Conclusion? There is a stronger positive correlation between big government and theism, than there is between big government and atheism.
 
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Votto

Votto

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Excellent. You were clearly contradicting yourself then, and atheism has a stronger correlation with anarchism than theism does.

Conclusion? There is a stronger positive correlation between big government and theism, than there is between big government and atheism.

You simply can't say that atheism and anarhism are more closely linked for it to be true. Where is the evidence for this?

Looking at today's world, countries that lean atheist are socialistic. In addtion, in the US pretty much every atheist I've talked to leans toward Big Government. For them, it is a way to deal with guilt when they see people in need. Rather than employing God as the motivation for helping them, they focus on the government doing the job for them.
 
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Votto

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I have noticed over the years that atheists tend to gravitate towards socialism/statism/communism etc. and those of faith tend to be for limited government and be more conservative. We even see Mr. socialist himself, Karl Marx, refer to religion as an opiate. We also have examples of statists, like in the former USSR, Cuba, China etc., where religion has been condemned and those of faith persecuted or even killed for their faith. In addition, Europe, which is mostly socialist, has one of the largest, if not the largest, percentage of atheists.

Am I the only one who sees this and is there a reason why?
The People can't be made to worship the State if they're worshiping God.

I would put it another way. The authority of God supercedes that of the state for those of faith. This is why control freaks like Stalin killed those of faith.
 

LOki

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You simply can't say that atheism and anarhism are more closely linked for it to be true. Where is the evidence for this?

Looking at today's world, countries that lean atheist are socialistic. In addtion, in the US pretty much every atheist I've talked to leans toward Big Government. For them, it is a way to deal with guilt when they see people in need. Rather than employing God as the motivation for helping them, they focus on the government doing the job for them.
You made the argument with your self contradicting (and baseless in evidence) assertions.
 

JakeStarkey

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Atheists have normally supported regimes like communism and monarchical fascism.
 
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Votto

Votto

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Atheists have normally supported regimes like communism and monarchical fascism.

Like I said, atheists tend to adopt a simplistic self righteous one size fits all approach. Conversely, those of faith, who are not under a theocracy, tend to favor individual freedom and choice.
 

LOki

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Atheists have normally supported regimes like communism and monarchical fascism.

Like I said, atheists tend to adopt a simplistic self righteous one size fits all approach. Conversely, those of faith, who are not under a theocracy, tend to favor individual freedom and choice.
Communism--Marxist communism--is characterized by small local government; effectively defeating that assertion of the OP.

And nothing about the redistibutionist premise of socialism is at odds with the teaching of Christ, which defeats that assertion of the OP.

And nothing posted as rebuttal refutes the observation that theists are natural authority huggers.

So, where's the validity of the opinion in the OP really to be found?
 

JakeStarkey

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Come back to reality, please. Modern day communism and monarchial fascism has drawn the atheist and the religious booger respectively.

Atheists have normally supported regimes like communism and monarchical fascism.

Like I said, atheists tend to adopt a simplistic self righteous one size fits all approach. Conversely, those of faith, who are not under a theocracy, tend to favor individual freedom and choice.
Communism--Marxist communism--is characterized by small local government; effectively defeating that assertion of the OP.

And nothing about the redistibutionist premise of socialism is at odds with the teaching of Christ, which defeats that assertion of the OP.

And nothing posted as rebuttal refutes the observation that theists are natural authority huggers.

So, where's the validity of the opinion in the OP really to be found?
 

LibertyLemming

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Come back to reality, please. Modern day communism and monarchial fascism has drawn the atheist and the religious booger respectively.

Like I said, atheists tend to adopt a simplistic self righteous one size fits all approach. Conversely, those of faith, who are not under a theocracy, tend to favor individual freedom and choice.
Communism--Marxist communism--is characterized by small local government; effectively defeating that assertion of the OP.

And nothing about the redistibutionist premise of socialism is at odds with the teaching of Christ, which defeats that assertion of the OP.

And nothing posted as rebuttal refutes the observation that theists are natural authority huggers.

So, where's the validity of the opinion in the OP really to be found?

Except that one of the commandments says "Thou shalt not steal" and you can't "redistribute" anything without first taking it by force from someone else.
 

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