Corporal punishment in schools should be abolished

[Jarlaxle]

That's a little tough for a 13-year-old girl to explain at school.

 

[Pogo]

I hear there is research that says corporal punishment lowers the IQ of children. Well the red states do want their kids to be dull followers. I am happy to live in a state that outlaw this barbarism.

Please link to this research so we can all laugh at you..

Children Who Are Spanked Have Lower IQs New Research Finds

What we don't get from this study,(it's a 5 year study) is a list of how many of those children, came from 1 parent homes, how many suffered the loss of a family member, how many relocated, how many parents lost their job, and a number of other reasons why someone's IQ could be affected.

That is a major problem with studies, they ask one specific question, or a good study(if you can call it that) asks maybe 3 questions. To have so much book learnin, some of these professors, have no common sense.

And how do you know they did NOT control for that?

 

[Pogo]

Children Who Are Spanked Have Lower IQs New Research Finds

Many high school dropout were undisciplined never spanked that research doesn't seem to fit reality.
Do you think gang members have a hi IQ?

Strictly as empirical observation I'd guess that gangers, at least those who voluntarily went that way (as distinguished from those whose culture gives them no other avenue) were probably beaten and otherwise abused BIG time.

Maybe by fellow gang members but not at home.

Yes, I mean at home, from infancy.
In other words we're talking about the road map to how they got where they are now.
If your gang members are beating you --- YOU'RE ALREADY IN THE GANG. Duh?

 

[Tresha91203]

Just because it is legal in those states does not mean it is practiced at all. None of the public schools here use it. When I was a kid, the nuns would smack knuckles with a ruler. That was 35 years ago. I can count on one hand the number of times I've seen it done. There was a rumor that one girl got a spanking at the office from Sister Bonaventure, but was never confirmed.

A nun did that once to my wife...she still has the scar. Her "ruler" was a broken-off piece of a metal draftman's square, that she sharpened to a razor edge with a whetstone. The second time she tried it, my wife shattered the bitch's jaw and knocked out eight of her teeth.

Her father found out about the ruler and blew his top like Vesuvius. When the principal literally hid in his office, her father actually PUT HIS FIST THROUGH THE DOOR. Had he beaten the paramedics to Sister Psycho, he WOULD have killed her!

Wow, we didn't have sadist nuns. Our rulers were standard cheap wooden school rulers. Parents could opt out.

Edited to remove a ghost draft post.

 

[Pogo]

I hear there is research that says corporal punishment lowers the IQ of children. Well the red states do want their kids to be dull followers. I am happy to live in a state that outlaw this barbarism.

Please link to this research so we can all laugh at you..

Children Who Are Spanked Have Lower IQs New Research Finds

LOL

First of all "the study" only used 1500 kids. Hardly a represntative group.

Second of all, there was a 5 point difference in one group and a 2.5 point difference in another group.

Thirdly, the study didn't even TRY to control other factors so that spanking was likely the only difference in their upbringing. They simply tested 1500 kids then tested them again later.

what a bogus "study"

What I learn from message boards is that, given any study on anything, the first thing out of the mouths of those who find it inconvenient is ""the study only used 1500 (681, 7924, pick your number). Hardly a representative group". You can set your watch by it No number is ever a "representative sample".

 

[ricechickie]

A teacher tried it on me ONCE. That was all it took. Yeah, I got expelled for awhile but she never tried it again when I returned.

When my kid was in school, I told them if they touched my kid, I would be touching them and they wouldn't like it.

Teachers have no right to physically punish a child. Children go to school to learn. They don't need some schmuck taking the role of parent. That is the parents job. Period. No exceptions.

Just to play devil's advocate, you don't expect a teacher to discipline your child at all?

 

[SmarterThanTheAverageBear]

I hear there is research that says corporal punishment lowers the IQ of children. Well the red states do want their kids to be dull followers. I am happy to live in a state that outlaw this barbarism.

Please link to this research so we can all laugh at you..

Children Who Are Spanked Have Lower IQs New Research Finds

LOL

First of all "the study" only used 1500 kids. Hardly a represntative group.

Second of all, there was a 5 point difference in one group and a 2.5 point difference in another group.

Thirdly, the study didn't even TRY to control other factors so that spanking was likely the only difference in their upbringing. They simply tested 1500 kids then tested them again later.

what a bogus "study"

What I learn from message boards is that, given any study on anything, the first thing out of the mouths of those who find it inconvenient is ""the study only used 1500 (681, 7924, pick your number). Hardly a representative group". You can set your watch by it No number is ever a "representative sample".

True, but you don't deny that 2 and 3 are valid complaints about the "study"

 

[whitehall]

Does using violence make better students? I would prefer that this barbaric practice be done away with. Maybe a compromise would give parents a choice on what punishments the school would administer.

Does using violence make better students? I would prefer that this barbaric practice be done away with. Maybe a compromise would give parents a choice on what punishments the school would administer.

Does using violence make better students? I would prefer that this barbaric practice be done away with. Maybe a compromise would give parents a choice on what punishments the school would administer.

I agree...they should try education instead.

 

[Pogo]

I hear there is research that says corporal punishment lowers the IQ of children. Well the red states do want their kids to be dull followers. I am happy to live in a state that outlaw this barbarism.

Please link to this research so we can all laugh at you..

Children Who Are Spanked Have Lower IQs New Research Finds

LOL

First of all "the study" only used 1500 kids. Hardly a represntative group.

Second of all, there was a 5 point difference in one group and a 2.5 point difference in another group.

Thirdly, the study didn't even TRY to control other factors so that spanking was likely the only difference in their upbringing. They simply tested 1500 kids then tested them again later.

what a bogus "study"

What I learn from message boards is that, given any study on anything, the first thing out of the mouths of those who find it inconvenient is ""the study only used 1500 (681, 7924, pick your number). Hardly a representative group". You can set your watch by it No number is ever a "representative sample".

True, but you don't deny that 2 and 3 are valid complaints about the "study"

Yeah I didn't go that far. There's a ball game on, I can't go perusing studies for the moment. Low hanging fruit.

 

[Sunni Man]

Just because it is legal in those states does not mean it is practiced at all. None of the public schools here use it. When I was a kid, the nuns would smack knuckles with a ruler. That was 35 years ago. I can count on one hand the number of times I've seen it done. There was a rumor that one girl got a spanking at the office from Sister Bonaventure, but was never confirmed.

A nun did that once to my wife...she still has the scar. Her "ruler" was a broken-off piece of a metal draftman's square, that she sharpened to a razor edge with a whetstone. The second time she tried it, my wife shattered the bitch's jaw and knocked out eight of her teeth.

Her father found out about the ruler and blew his top like Vesuvius. When the principal literally hid in his office, her father actually PUT HIS FIST THROUGH THE DOOR. Had he beaten the paramedics to Sister Psycho, he WOULD have killed her!

Yea, sure, we believe you.............. .

 

[whitehall]

What's wrong with the graphics? Why does New York which probably has the most funding for education and has outlawed corporal punishment rank in the lowest testing scores? Maybe it ain't about corporal punishment>

 

[Pogo]

Just because it is legal in those states does not mean it is practiced at all. None of the public schools here use it. When I was a kid, the nuns would smack knuckles with a ruler. That was 35 years ago. I can count on one hand the number of times I've seen it done. There was a rumor that one girl got a spanking at the office from Sister Bonaventure, but was never confirmed.

A nun did that once to my wife...she still has the scar. Her "ruler" was a broken-off piece of a metal draftman's square, that she sharpened to a razor edge with a whetstone. The second time she tried it, my wife shattered the bitch's jaw and knocked out eight of her teeth.

Her father found out about the ruler and blew his top like Vesuvius. When the principal literally hid in his office, her father actually PUT HIS FIST THROUGH THE DOOR. Had he beaten the paramedics to Sister Psycho, he WOULD have killed her!

Wow, we didn't have sadist nuns. Our rulers were standard cheap wooden school rulers. Parents could opt out.

Edited to remove a ghost draft post.

I've always said if Catholic school taught you anything it was quick reflexes. When that bullet-shaped rubber tip came off the pointer the penguin was whacking on some unfortunate soul on the far side of the room, the ricochet could take it literally anywhere.

I don't think we had an "opt out" option (of corporal punishment) but when they saw what the place was doing to me they pulled me out of there and put me in public school. All of my siblings followed and we never looked back. Except in anger.

 

[Pogo]

Just because it is legal in those states does not mean it is practiced at all. None of the public schools here use it. When I was a kid, the nuns would smack knuckles with a ruler. That was 35 years ago. I can count on one hand the number of times I've seen it done. There was a rumor that one girl got a spanking at the office from Sister Bonaventure, but was never confirmed.

A nun did that once to my wife...she still has the scar. Her "ruler" was a broken-off piece of a metal draftman's square, that she sharpened to a razor edge with a whetstone. The second time she tried it, my wife shattered the bitch's jaw and knocked out eight of her teeth.

Her father found out about the ruler and blew his top like Vesuvius. When the principal literally hid in his office, her father actually PUT HIS FIST THROUGH THE DOOR. Had he beaten the paramedics to Sister Psycho, he WOULD have killed her!

Yea, sure, we believe you.............. .

You doubt that story?
Never been to Catholic school?

 

[Rikurzhen]

I hear there is research that says corporal punishment lowers the IQ of children. Well the red states do want their kids to be dull followers. I am happy to live in a state that outlaw this barbarism.

Please link to this research so we can all laugh at you..

Children Who Are Spanked Have Lower IQs New Research Finds

LOL

First of all "the study" only used 1500 kids. Hardly a represntative group.

Second of all, there was a 5 point difference in one group and a 2.5 point difference in another group.

Thirdly, the study didn't even TRY to control other factors so that spanking was likely the only difference in their upbringing. They simply tested 1500 kids then tested them again later.

what a bogus "study"

The study is flawed but not for the reasons your list.

It had no method to determine the direction of causality. Did spanking lower IQ or did lower IQ students act out more and thus were spanked more frequently?

IQ is not so malleable a factor that influences like spanking can change it. However, IQ is correlated with impulse control in children and other behavioral issues.

Even with the internal logic of the research there has to be some reason to spank the child. The research didn't note that misbehaving children who were not spanked misbehaved at the same rate and intensity as those who were spanked. It simply followed children and measured spanking and then IQ.

Shoddy research design. I'm surprised it actually got funded.

 

[ricechickie]

On the other hand, when you think about how spanking works, it doesn't attempt to get a child to think, only to react. Self-discipline requires thinking through one's actions, further than avoiding an unpleasant consequence.

 

[Rikurzhen]

On the other hand, when you think about how spanking works, it doesn't attempt to get a child to think, only to react. Self-discipline requires thinking through one's actions, further than avoiding an unpleasant consequence.

On one level we think about our choices and on another level we are on auto-pilot. I'm assuming that you know something about dogs (your avatar) well spanking is also trying to create a behavioral response which is automatic. When a child touches a hot stove burner once they don't really need to think in the future, their actions are automatic - they avoid being so close to the hot burner and don't need conscious thought.

Pain and discomfort imprint on people. A young man who is insulting and a loudmouth can change his personality if he finds himself mouthing off to a biker in a bar who then takes him outside, beats him to a pulp and leaves. That young man's personality will change and he doesn't have to think about it.

 

[Gracie]

A teacher tried it on me ONCE. That was all it took. Yeah, I got expelled for awhile but she never tried it again when I returned.

When my kid was in school, I told them if they touched my kid, I would be touching them and they wouldn't like it.

Teachers have no right to physically punish a child. Children go to school to learn. They don't need some schmuck taking the role of parent. That is the parents job. Period. No exceptions.

Just to play devil's advocate, you don't expect a teacher to discipline your child at all?

No. They are not the parent. I AM. Physically, anyway. As far as I am concerned, punishment can be detention or collecting basketballs after practice or writing an essay on why they are in trouble, etc. TOUCHING my child is out of the question.

 

[ricechickie]

On one level we think about our choices and on another level we are on auto-pilot. I'm assuming that you know something about dogs (your avatar) well spanking is also trying to create a behavioral response which is automatic. When a child touches a hot stove burner once they don't really need to think in the future, their actions are automatic - they avoid being so close to the hot burner and don't need conscious thought.

Pain and discomfort imprint on people. A young man who is insulting and a loudmouth can change his personality if he finds himself mouthing off to a biker in a bar who then takes him outside, beats him to a pulp and leaves. That young man's personality will change and he doesn't have to think about it.

You're absolutely correct. And yet, we want to raise children who can extrapolate from their experiences, rather than having to get burned by hot stoves or get the shit beat out of them, in order to learn how to act in every situation.

Besides that, we want children who can (and will) make the good decision even when the spanker (enforcer) isn't around.

 

[Rikurzhen]

On one level we think about our choices and on another level we are on auto-pilot. I'm assuming that you know something about dogs (your avatar) well spanking is also trying to create a behavioral response which is automatic. When a child touches a hot stove burner once they don't really need to think in the future, their actions are automatic - they avoid being so close to the hot burner and don't need conscious thought.

Pain and discomfort imprint on people. A young man who is insulting and a loudmouth can change his personality if he finds himself mouthing off to a biker in a bar who then takes him outside, beats him to a pulp and leaves. That young man's personality will change and he doesn't have to think about it.

You're absolutely correct. And yet, we want to raise children who can extrapolate from their experiences, rather than having to get burned by hot stoves or get the shit beat out of them, in order to learn how to act in every situation.

Besides that, we want children who can (and will) make the good decision even when the spanker (enforcer) isn't around.

Do parents try to reason with a 3 month old? No, because the child is not equipped to understand language. How about a 5 year old? Now the child understands language but their mental faculties are not well developed.

Do many parents spank an 18 year old who has done something wrong? No, because spanking is no longer effective, reasoning works much better.

So if you want to modify behavior you have to understand the subject of your "experiment" and chose the best technique for the circumstances.

When you train a dog one of the rules is to deliver the punishment immediately after the wrongdoing. The dog poops in the kitchen, let the dog know immediately. Why? Because the dog has a limited capacity to make cause-effect connections so the trying to explain to the dog, a day later, that you disapprove of him pooping in your kitchen is just going to confuse the dog.

Well, with a young child, simply because they parrot back to you what you've explained to them doesn't mean that their brain is now guiding and filtering their behavior and operationalizing this new rule you've given them. There's a deeper, more primitive brain at work, still dominant, and it takes maturation to develop the rational part of the brain.

 

[SmarterThanTheAverageBear]

You know what shouldn't be allowed in schools?

Children who can not or will not behave

Let's ban THEM from schools.