Cops Confiscate Lakewood Lady’s Arsenal; Motive Pending

[geauxtohell]

The worst case of mass murder on a campus in US history was down played by the media, possibly because the school (Va. Tech Blacksburg) and the local police were so negligent. The shooter had been undergoing psychiatric care but a glitch in Va. law prevented the name check to reveal a medical condition because of privacy concerns even when the shooter was buying a gun. (I believe the glitch has been corrected). The local police had reasonable cause to arrest the shooter well before the tragedy but they let him go even though there were complaints by woman that they were being stalked. The school never went into lockdown even when the first body was discovered and the police were interviewing witnesses while the gumnman was killing people on the other side of campus. The point is that anyone suffering from a psychiatric disorder including Veterans who claim PTSS should automatically have their firearms confiscated until a hearing certifies that they are not a danger to society.

Should?

Now the goalpost is moving. The standard for involuntary hold is "danger to self and others" The VaTech shooter clearly had homicidal ideations that would have been an indication for a detainment and psych hold if they had put everything together.

Furthermore, the VT shooter was most likely psychotic, a condition that is not inherent to most mood or anxiety disorders (like PTSD).

Pulling firearms away from everyone undergoing any sort of psychiatric treatment is stupid and illegal.

 

[whitehall]

The worst case of mass murder on a campus in US history was down played by the media, possibly because the school (Va. Tech Blacksburg) and the local police were so negligent. The shooter had been undergoing psychiatric care but a glitch in Va. law prevented the name check to reveal a medical condition because of privacy concerns even when the shooter was buying a gun. (I believe the glitch has been corrected). The local police had reasonable cause to arrest the shooter well before the tragedy but they let him go even though there were complaints by woman that they were being stalked. The school never went into lockdown even when the first body was discovered and the police were interviewing witnesses while the gumnman was killing people on the other side of campus. The point is that anyone suffering from a psychiatric disorder including Veterans who claim PTSS should automatically have their firearms confiscated until a hearing certifies that they are not a danger to society.

Should?

Now the goalpost is moving. The standard for involuntary hold is "danger to self and others" The VaTech shooter clearly had homicidal ideations that would have been an indication for a detainment and psych hold if they had put everything together.

Furthermore, the VT shooter was most likely psychotic, a condition that is not inherent to most mood or anxiety disorders (like PTSD).

Pulling firearms away from everyone undergoing any sort of psychiatric treatment is stupid and illegal.

If you read between the lines it seems that the Columbine shooters suffered from mood and anxiety disorders which may or may not have been related to the behavior altering drugs the school was administering apparently at random. I think it's legal to confiscate firearms from people who are undergoing psychiatric therapy but the confidentiality of the doctor patient relationship prevents doctors from turning in their patients no matter how dangerous they are to themselves or society. Purchasing a gun is a different situation. It's obvious that the ATF considers psychiatric problems to be a red flag issue. Confiscation of firearms should be a slam dunk where the courts have ordered treatment.

 

[geauxtohell]

If you read between the lines it seems that the Columbine shooters suffered from mood and anxiety disorders which may or may not have been related to the behavior altering drugs the school was administering apparently at random. I think it's legal to confiscate firearms from people who are undergoing psychiatric therapy but the confidentiality of the doctor patient relationship prevents doctors from turning in their patients no matter how dangerous they are to themselves or society. Purchasing a gun is a different situation. It's obvious that the ATF considers psychiatric problems to be a red flag issue. Confiscation of firearms should be a slam dunk where the courts have ordered treatment.

This is wrought with so many factual errors it's funny.
1.) Doctor patient confidentiality/HIPAA can be breached when there is a legitimate concern that a vulnerable patient is being harmed or that a patient might harm themselves or others. In fact, you are obligated to report suspected child and elder abuse. It's a violation of the law to not break HIPAA in that instance. It's the same if a patient verbalizes a homicidal intent to you. You are obligated to notify the authorities.
2.) Schools don't administer drugs. Especially not psychiatric drugs. Physicians do. In fact, most physicians won't touch the anti-psychotic drug class. That's why psychiatry is it's own, unique field that requires a four year residency.
3.) It would be exceedingly rare for a teenager to be diagnosed with any mood disorder that might cause psychosis. Those typically onset much later in life. For instance, Schizophrenia earlier than 18 for males is almost unheard of. The truth is, you don't have to have a psychiatric disorder to be a homicidal monster.
4.) If a person is undergoing inpatient treatment, there is no need to confiscate anything, as they are locked down. As long as a psychiatric patient isn't a harm to themselves or others, there is no need to involuntarily hold them or disrupt their lives in anyway. It certainly doesn't give the state latitude to confiscate someone's property. The apparent issue here is that this woman eloped from inpatient treatment. In that case, there is a perceived danger and that's why the weapons were confiscated.
5.) PTSD isn't a "hard core" psych disorder and it should be any sort of reason to stigmatize anyone or make their lives any different than the normal population. Believe it or not, you don't have to serve in combat to have PTSD. Rape victims, disaster survivors, victims of automobile accidents are all prone to PTSD. It can be easily treated with an SSRI and therapy. It doesn't turn people into homicidal monsters. In fact, it's usually the opposite. Aversion of the traumatic stimulus (i.e. gunfire) is the norm.
6.) You've still yet to cite any sort of law. The ATF can "red flag" people until the cows come home. You haven't demonstrated that people with psychiatric conditions aren't entitled to their second amendment rights.

 

[AmericanFirst]

I've seen the ACLU take something less then this to court and win.
But this is a real rights violation involving the second amendment and they moe than likely won't touch it.

Win what? Rice "won". Her suit is resolved. You are talking about additional monitary damages. You can't just make those up out of a hat. The one place were plaintiffs had latitude to rack up non-economic damages was "pain and suffering". I.e. "The emotional distress caused by the police entering my home and stealing my guns caused me $X in damages". That's now capped thanks to tort reform. It cuts both ways. Rice certainly was damaged for the amount of her stockpile that was confiscated and her court/lawyer fees. Outside of that, this isn't a big money case.

The ACLU was more than happy to file suit on behalf of Rush Limbaugh when they thought his constitutional rights were being violated.

Win what? Rice "won". Her suit is resolved

.


No civil case has started yet. The cops returned her firearms voluntary. They did not do it because it was a court order.

Last week, with no further evidence from the VA that Rice couldn’t handle a gun, the police returned her weapons.

If they returned her guns voluntarily they know they don't have a case.