Cop charged in fatal car accident during pursuit.

[martybegan]

What makes you think this guy would have killed someone?

He was caught and not by the officer who killed the two girls, right?

It's always a possibility. And will be more so when criminals know they police can't chase them.

The problem with finding them later is you find the CAR, then you have to prove the people in question were IN the car.

"Someone borrowed by car, wasn't me"

 

[martybegan]

/——/ There is no right answer. Each instance is unique.

Then why ban chases making every instance the same?

The cops should not be liable if they followed procedure.

 

[pknopp]

It's always a possibility. And will be more so when criminals know they police can't chase them.

No one said the police can't chase them. The argument is they need to do it in smarter way that does not risk the lives of innocent people.

The problem with finding them later is you find the CAR, then you have to prove the people in question were IN the car.

"Someone borrowed by car, wasn't me"

We have video everywhere. Collect the video all around the area that shows the person who was driving the car. Radio ahead to cars in the direction he is going. Might he stop and jump out and run? Yes. Collect all the video sources in the area.

 

[martybegan]

No one said the police can't chase them. The argument is they need to do it in smarter way that does not risk the lives of innocent people.




We have video everywhere. Collect the video all around the area that shows the person who was driving the car. Radio ahead to cars in the direction he is going. Might he stop and jump out and run? Yes. Collect all the video sources in the area.

That's what many people are saying. Chicago even banned foot pursuits in most cases.

Video usually isn't detailed enough for facial identification, and leaves an opening for the defense to say "wasn't him"

 

[SavannahMann]

What is the occurrence of fatal accidents in high speed chases vs. the further crimes committed by people allowed to flee, so of those crimes being homicides?

The ratio was so high for St. Ann Missouri (note. I originally said Michigan. That was a mistake I apologize for.) that the Insurance Company essentially forced them to abandon high speed pursuits.

There was a crash with serious damage about every two weeks. Those included serious injuries and fatalities.

That was one police department.

The insurance premiums were set to increase so much the Chief of police had a choice. Fire 1/4 of his cops, or change the policy.

But it is more than the civilians who are injured and killed. Last year more than 40 cops died in automobile and motorcycle accidents. In and out of pursuits.

How many were injured? How many were maimed and unable to return to the job? How many cops did we lose to accidents? I don’t think anyone knows. But we know that more than 40 died.

If we include the struck by vehicle numbers, more cops died from automobile related causes than gunfire.

So we know that vehicles are dangerous. We don’t know how many people died in automobile accidents in 2022, but for 2021 it was 48,000.

How many of those were pursuits we will probably never know.

 

[pknopp]

That's what many people are saying. Chicago even banned foot pursuits in most cases.

No they didn't.

Chicago put some restrictions in place because the police were unable to do so in a safe manner. They would just shoot away...................killing a 13 year old.

Video usually isn't detailed enough for facial identification, and leaves an opening for the defense to say "wasn't him"

It's far better today. Driving 110 on city streets is stupid no matter who is doing it.

 

[martybegan]

The ratio was so high for St. Ann Missouri (note. I originally said Michigan. That was a mistake I apologize for.) that the Insurance Company essentially forced them to abandon high speed pursuits.

There was a crash with serious damage about every two weeks. Those included serious injuries and fatalities.

That was one police department.

The insurance premiums were set to increase so much the Chief of police had a choice. Fire 1/4 of his cops, or change the policy.

But it is more than the civilians who are injured and killed. Last year more than 40 cops died in automobile and motorcycle accidents. In and out of pursuits.

How many were injured? How many were maimed and unable to return to the job? How many cops did we lose to accidents? I don’t think anyone knows. But we know that more than 40 died.

If we include the struck by vehicle numbers, more cops died from automobile related causes than gunfire.

So we know that vehicles are dangerous. We don’t know how many people died in automobile accidents in 2022, but for 2021 it was 48,000.

How many of those were pursuits we will probably never know.

And saying "no pursuits, ever" will result in more criminals on the street, able to do more damage, and less successful prosecutions resulting in said criminals continuing their criminality.

The only reason pursuit issues are noticed is they are up front, and done by the authority responsible for catching and arresting criminals. So you ban pursuits, feel good about yourself, and some poor bastard dies out of sight out of mind, killed by a guy that could have been put away, but wasn't because the cops had to let him go.

 

[martybegan]

No they didn't.

Chicago put some restrictions in place because the police were unable to do so in a safe manner. They would just shoot away...................killing a 13 year old.




It's far better today. Driving 110 on city streets is stupid no matter who is doing it.

Chicago over-reacted to on incident, and look how things are going there.

Letting someone know if they drive over say 80 MPH the cops will stop following them is even dumber.

 

[pknopp]

Chicago over-reacted to on incident, and look how things are going there.

Letting someone know if they drive over say 80 MPH the cops will stop following them is even dumber.

The cops can still pursue them. Just in a far smarter manner. I already noted that.

 

[martybegan]

The cops can still pursue them. Just in a far smarter manner. I already noted that.

Define "smarter"

Police have to follow specific procedures, you can't just say "be better at it"

You might as well just say "the perps shouldn't run", it's just as retarded as "be smarter"

 

[pknopp]

Define "smarter"

I already did.

 

[martybegan]

I already did.

and your 10 year sentence thing depends on conviction, which is much harder when you don't catch the person in the act.

So your solution is worthless.

 

[pknopp]

and your 10 year sentence thing depends on conviction, which is much harder when you don't catch the person in the act.

So your solution is worthless.

You say they won't catch him. I say we saw it here. The cop who killed the girls didn't catch him. Cops who were called on the radio ahead of the criminal did. He can't out run the radio.

 

[martybegan]

You say they won't catch him. I say we saw it here. The cop who killed the girls didn't catch him. Cops who were called on the radio ahead of the criminal did. He can't out run the radio.

And has he been convicted?

Catching isn't convicting.

His defense lawyers sure can outrun the radio.

 

[pknopp]

And has he been convicted?

Catching isn't convicting.

His defense lawyers sure can outrun the radio.

No, I don't know what he had for breakfast.

 

[martybegan]

No, I don't know what he had for breakfast.

Dodge, duck, dip, dive, and dodge.

Assuming the later capture of the suspect is the same as catching them in the act or right after the act during pursuit is idiotic.

 

[pknopp]

Dodge, duck, dip, dive, and dodge.

Assuming the later capture of the suspect is the same as catching them in the act or right after the act during pursuit is idiotic.

They were caught in the act.

 

[Baron Von Murderpaws]

This is one of the funnier responses I’ve seen in a while. You should be proud.

Shoot the tires? Really? Let’s examine Police Marksmanship for a moment.

The cops fired more than 100 rounds at the occupants of this truck. They managed to hit one of the women. One of two women.

No charges against LAPD cops who wounded women in Dorner manhunt | CNN

Eight Los Angeles police officers who collectively fired 107 shots at two women delivering newspapers in a truck that police had mistaken for one belonging to renegade ex-cop Christopher Dorner will not face criminal charges.

amp.cnn.com

Most often the cops miss their target. A human being, and you want them to shoot out tires? They missed the truck a lot in the story above. The whole truck was missed.

As for the idea of a computer Governor to either limit the speed or shut down the car. It wouldn’t be ten minutes before someone was removing the thing.

I remember a situation about twenty years ago. When music copying and sharing was a bigger deal. Sony spent millions developing a technology to thwart people who rip the music from a CD. This was defeated by a magic marker.

CD Crack: Magic Marker Indeed

Can Sony Music's state-of-the-art encryption foil the sneakiest cracker? Maybe so, but it evidently fails the felt-tip marker test.

www.wired.com

It was defeated quickly and word spread fast. I mean like on the first day it was deployed.

People are already modifying the code in the Engine Management Computers.

The Many Benefits of Remapping An Engine Control Module

While your engine control modules are tuned to optimize vehicle performance, everyone’s needs from their trucks are different. ECM reflashing/remapping/reprogramming is a tuning technique that allows you to get the most out of your engines exactly according to your requirements.

catecm.com

How long before every other backyard mechanic was doing it to lift the limiter? A week? Or would it take a full month? Either way it wouldn’t be long would it?

Finally. Your manufacturer hotline. So I steal a license plate from a similar car. You the cop call it in and Toyota shuts down the car. I continue fleeing because all you did was ruin the day of some Mother who has two girls screaming about needing to get to the soccer game.

Any other brilliant ideas? Fast and Furious style harpoons that fry the cars electronics?

This issue was brought up when I was in high school.
This was the best class suggestion we came up with.

This is a suggestive program that would have to be worked on, with massive amounts of training.

Stop being a douche and reading shit I never wrote.

 

[Vastator]

I understand the idea behind not allowing pursuit. But once the criminals find out, they will run, at high speeds, every single time.

This tragedy is not the fault of the officer, but of the idiot behind the wheel of the other car.

100% pure, unadulterated horseshit. The only one responsible for these deaths is the driver of the car that killed these girls. But of course the State is going to put it on the fleeing suspect. Because rarely ever does the State, or it's employees take responsibility, for the negative outcomes of their own decisions.

 

[Vastator]

What is the occurrence of fatal accidents in high speed chases vs. the further crimes committed by people allowed to flee, so of those crimes being homicides?

This wasn't a homicide, it was a property crime. Often times even when a suspect successfully flees, and eludes they ultimately end up caught. It's called investigation.