Cop charged in fatal car accident during pursuit.

[SavannahMann]

Some time ago, I posted a thread about insurance driving police reform. I mention it now, because if that reform had hit a small town police department in Louisiana, two teenaged girls would be alive, and a Cop wouldn’t be awaiting trial.

Louisiana officer arrested for role in high-speed car chase that killed 2 teens: "That cop has a lot of questions to answer"

Maggie Dunn, 17, and Caroline Gill, 16, were killed when their car was struck by a police cruiser Saturday morning on a state highway.

www.cbsnews.com

The officer pursued the suspect at high speed, and that is including a period of 110 MPH. In the Insurance thread, we discussed risk versus reward. The risk of high speed pursuits is that innocents will be injured, or killed. And that was the driving force behind the requirement of the St. Ann Police Department to knock off the high speed pursuits. The Insurance was going to go up significantly if they did not take the reform measures required.

Risk versus reward. The risk is that the bad guy gets away for now, to be caught later. The Reward is that the bad guy gets caught now assuming he survives the inevitable crash. The other risk is that the high speed pursuit kills someone else. In this case, two teenaged girls, and a boy.

Now, a Cop has been charged with two counts of Reckless Homicide, and a single count of Reckless Injuring. The boy has survived, and will spend the next year in various surgeries and recovery, never being the same as he was before that day.

For cops out there, if your department is not leading the reform effort, it is going to be a case of Russian Roulette on a daily basis as you discover after the fact that something that you’ve done a hundred times, is no longer permitted. The discovery will be to your sorrow.

Oh, before I forget. The link to the Insurance Reform Thread. Insurance driving police reform.

 

[WinterBorn]

I understand the idea behind not allowing pursuit. But once the criminals find out, they will run, at high speeds, every single time.

This tragedy is not the fault of the officer, but of the idiot behind the wheel of the other car.

 

[Mikeoxenormous]

I understand the idea behind not allowing pursuit. But once the criminals find out, they will run, at high speeds, every single time.

This tragedy is not the fault of the officer, but of the idiot behind the wheel of the other car.

I concur

 

[SavannahMann]

I understand the idea behind not allowing pursuit. But once the criminals find out, they will run, at high speeds, every single time.

This tragedy is not the fault of the officer, but of the idiot behind the wheel of the other car.

They say it takes two to Tango. That is true. In this case it was the decision of the baddie to run. It was also the decision of the officer to chase. Both made decisions with consequences.

High speed pursuits usually end in a crash. If you are lucky only the baddie is injured or killed. But who decides policy based upon luck?

The Baddie was caught later. Even though the pursuit was ended with the crash that killed the two girls. Another department caught him.

Police today have computers in the cars. They have radios that can link to every other department in a state. It is intended to make the police a team. So that everyone can be aware of what is going on. So pass the word. Keep an eye out for this guy. Keep an eye out for this car. Eventually the guy will stop and the cops will get him without the need for a pursuit.

Is it worth the lives of two girls, or any innocents, to catch this guy? Society is saying no. It isn’t worth the lives of innocents.

 

[pknopp]

It is stupid to do 110 on public streets. If it's stupid for one, it's stupid for all. If you do something stupid and you harm others doing something stupid you should be held accountable.

A person loses a car or the community and families lose two innocent lives.

 

[Baron Von Murderpaws]

Simple fix........if they run, especially in a car at high speeds.........shoot their tires out.
Then when you get up to the car, shoot them. They've already admitted guilt by running/fleeing.

Justice needs to be short and swift in cases where it is BLATANTLY OBVIOUS they are criminals.


A rebuff on the insurance program...............

Build vehicles with restrictors in them, so they CANNOT go more than 5 mph over the national speed limit.
Also put "kill switches" in them, where the police can call a manufacturer hotline and have them "kill" the fleeing vehicle.......since all vehicles are now computerized. Hell, they can even make it where they are locked IN the vehicle until the police arrive to drag them to prison.

NOBODY in this country needs consumer vehicles that go over 80 mph.

 

[SavannahMann]

Simple fix........if they run, especially in a car at high speeds.........shoot their tires out.
Then when you get up to the car, shoot them. They've already admitted guilt by running/fleeing.

Justice needs to be short and swift in cases where it is BLATANTLY OBVIOUS they are criminals.


A rebuff on the insurance program...............

Build vehicles with restrictors in them, so they CANNOT go more than 5 mph over the national speed limit.
Also put "kill switches" in them, where the police can call a manufacturer hotline and have them "kill" the fleeing vehicle.......since all vehicles are now computerized. Hell, they can even make it where they are locked IN the vehicle until the police arrive to drag them to prison.

NOBODY in this country needs consumer vehicles that go over 80 mph.

This is one of the funnier responses I’ve seen in a while. You should be proud.

Shoot the tires? Really? Let’s examine Police Marksmanship for a moment.

The cops fired more than 100 rounds at the occupants of this truck. They managed to hit one of the women. One of two women.

No charges against LAPD cops who wounded women in Dorner manhunt - CNN

Eight Los Angeles police officers who collectively fired 107 shots at two women delivering newspapers in a truck that police had mistaken for one belonging to renegade ex-cop Christopher Dorner will not face criminal charges.

amp.cnn.com

Most often the cops miss their target. A human being, and you want them to shoot out tires? They missed the truck a lot in the story above. The whole truck was missed.

As for the idea of a computer Governor to either limit the speed or shut down the car. It wouldn’t be ten minutes before someone was removing the thing.

I remember a situation about twenty years ago. When music copying and sharing was a bigger deal. Sony spent millions developing a technology to thwart people who rip the music from a CD. This was defeated by a magic marker.

CD Crack: Magic Marker Indeed

Can Sony Music's state-of-the-art encryption foil the sneakiest cracker? Maybe so, but it evidently fails the felt-tip marker test.

www.wired.com

It was defeated quickly and word spread fast. I mean like on the first day it was deployed.

People are already modifying the code in the Engine Management Computers.

The Many Benefits of Remapping An Engine Control Module

While your engine control modules are tuned to optimize vehicle performance, everyone’s needs from their trucks are different. ECM reflashing/remapping/reprogramming is a tuning technique that allows you to get the most out of your engines exactly according to your requirements.

catecm.com

How long before every other backyard mechanic was doing it to lift the limiter? A week? Or would it take a full month? Either way it wouldn’t be long would it?

Finally. Your manufacturer hotline. So I steal a license plate from a similar car. You the cop call it in and Toyota shuts down the car. I continue fleeing because all you did was ruin the day of some Mother who has two girls screaming about needing to get to the soccer game.

Any other brilliant ideas? Fast and Furious style harpoons that fry the cars electronics?

 

[martybegan]

They say it takes two to Tango. That is true. In this case it was the decision of the baddie to run. It was also the decision of the officer to chase. Both made decisions with consequences.

High speed pursuits usually end in a crash. If you are lucky only the baddie is injured or killed. But who decides policy based upon luck?

The Baddie was caught later. Even though the pursuit was ended with the crash that killed the two girls. Another department caught him.

Police today have computers in the cars. They have radios that can link to every other department in a state. It is intended to make the police a team. So that everyone can be aware of what is going on. So pass the word. Keep an eye out for this guy. Keep an eye out for this car. Eventually the guy will stop and the cops will get him without the need for a pursuit.

Is it worth the lives of two girls, or any innocents, to catch this guy? Society is saying no. It isn’t worth the lives of innocents.

So give them time to get rid of evidence, scrub any DNA off themselves, etc....

Catching them isn't the end goal, convicting them of whatever they did is.

 

[Mac-7]

Some time ago, I posted a thread about insurance driving police reform. I mention it now, because if that reform had hit a small town police department in Louisiana, two teenaged girls would be alive, and a Cop wouldn’t be awaiting trial.

Louisiana officer arrested for role in high-speed car chase that killed 2 teens: "That cop has a lot of questions to answer"

Maggie Dunn, 17, and Caroline Gill, 16, were killed when their car was struck by a police cruiser Saturday morning on a state highway.

www.cbsnews.com

The officer pursued the suspect at high speed, and that is including a period of 110 MPH. In the Insurance thread, we discussed risk versus reward. The risk of high speed pursuits is that innocents will be injured, or killed. And that was the driving force behind the requirement of the St. Ann Police Department to knock off the high speed pursuits. The Insurance was going to go up significantly if they did not take the reform measures required.

Risk versus reward. The risk is that the bad guy gets away for now, to be caught later. The Reward is that the bad guy gets caught now assuming he survives the inevitable crash. The other risk is that the high speed pursuit kills someone else. In this case, two teenaged girls, and a boy.

Now, a Cop has been charged with two counts of Reckless Homicide, and a single count of Reckless Injuring. The boy has survived, and will spend the next year in various surgeries and recovery, never being the same as he was before that day.

For cops out there, if your department is not leading the reform effort, it is going to be a case of Russian Roulette on a daily basis as you discover after the fact that something that you’ve done a hundred times, is no longer permitted. The discovery will be to your sorrow.

Oh, before I forget. The link to the Insurance Reform Thread. Insurance driving police reform.

Home invasion is a very serious crime

You want to let the criminals go free?

 

[pknopp]

This is one of the funnier responses I’ve seen in a while. You should be proud.

Shoot the tires? Really? Let’s examine Police Marksmanship for a moment.

The cops fired more than 100 rounds at the occupants of this truck. They managed to hit one of the women. One of two women.

No charges against LAPD cops who wounded women in Dorner manhunt - CNN

Eight Los Angeles police officers who collectively fired 107 shots at two women delivering newspapers in a truck that police had mistaken for one belonging to renegade ex-cop Christopher Dorner will not face criminal charges.

amp.cnn.com

Most often the cops miss their target. A human being, and you want them to shoot out tires? They missed the truck a lot in the story above. The whole truck was missed.

As for the idea of a computer Governor to either limit the speed or shut down the car. It wouldn’t be ten minutes before someone was removing the thing.

I remember a situation about twenty years ago. When music copying and sharing was a bigger deal. Sony spent millions developing a technology to thwart people who rip the music from a CD. This was defeated by a magic marker.

CD Crack: Magic Marker Indeed

Can Sony Music's state-of-the-art encryption foil the sneakiest cracker? Maybe so, but it evidently fails the felt-tip marker test.

www.wired.com

It was defeated quickly and word spread fast. I mean like on the first day it was deployed.

People are already modifying the code in the Engine Management Computers.

The Many Benefits of Remapping An Engine Control Module

While your engine control modules are tuned to optimize vehicle performance, everyone’s needs from their trucks are different. ECM reflashing/remapping/reprogramming is a tuning technique that allows you to get the most out of your engines exactly according to your requirements.

catecm.com

How long before every other backyard mechanic was doing it to lift the limiter? A week? Or would it take a full month? Either way it wouldn’t be long would it?

Finally. Your manufacturer hotline. So I steal a license plate from a similar car. You the cop call it in and Toyota shuts down the car. I continue fleeing because all you did was ruin the day of some Mother who has two girls screaming about needing to get to the soccer game.

Any other brilliant ideas? Fast and Furious style harpoons that fry the cars electronics?

Mandatory 10 years in prison when you break other laws when fleeing from a police officer. I note other laws because cops often time get pissed when people make sure to pull over in a safe spot.

 

[Cellblock2429]

Some time ago, I posted a thread about insurance driving police reform. I mention it now, because if that reform had hit a small town police department in Louisiana, two teenaged girls would be alive, and a Cop wouldn’t be awaiting trial.

Louisiana officer arrested for role in high-speed car chase that killed 2 teens: "That cop has a lot of questions to answer"

Maggie Dunn, 17, and Caroline Gill, 16, were killed when their car was struck by a police cruiser Saturday morning on a state highway.

www.cbsnews.com

The officer pursued the suspect at high speed, and that is including a period of 110 MPH. In the Insurance thread, we discussed risk versus reward. The risk of high speed pursuits is that innocents will be injured, or killed. And that was the driving force behind the requirement of the St. Ann Police Department to knock off the high speed pursuits. The Insurance was going to go up significantly if they did not take the reform measures required.

Risk versus reward. The risk is that the bad guy gets away for now, to be caught later. The Reward is that the bad guy gets caught now assuming he survives the inevitable crash. The other risk is that the high speed pursuit kills someone else. In this case, two teenaged girls, and a boy.

Now, a Cop has been charged with two counts of Reckless Homicide, and a single count of Reckless Injuring. The boy has survived, and will spend the next year in various surgeries and recovery, never being the same as he was before that day.

For cops out there, if your department is not leading the reform effort, it is going to be a case of Russian Roulette on a daily basis as you discover after the fact that something that you’ve done a hundred times, is no longer permitted. The discovery will be to your sorrow.

Oh, before I forget. The link to the Insurance Reform Thread. Insurance driving police reform.

/----/ CArs are faster, and drivers have a false sense of security. Police cars have plate readers and once the owner can be identified, the high-speed chase should end. The driver can be arrested later. An exception would be if the speeding car had a kidnap victim in it.

 

[SavannahMann]

Home invasion is a very serious crime

You want to let the criminals go free?

How many innocent lives is it worth to chase the baddie? Is it worth your life or the life of your loved one to catch him? Is it worth your whole family to chase him? How many lives is it worth?

 

[martybegan]

/----/ CArs are faster, and drivers have a false sense of security. Police cars have plate readers and once the owner can be identified, the high-speed chase should end. The driver can be arrested later. An exception would be if the speeding car had a kidnap victim in it.

Gives them time to lose or destroy any evidence, or scrub themselves of any victim DNA.

 

[martybegan]

How many innocent lives is it worth to chase the baddie? Is it worth your life or the life of your loved one to catch him? Is it worth your whole family to chase him? How many lives is it worth?

What is the occurrence of fatal accidents in high speed chases vs. the further crimes committed by people allowed to flee, so of those crimes being homicides?

 

[pknopp]

How many innocent lives is it worth to chase the baddie? Is it worth your life or the life of your loved one to catch him? Is it worth your whole family to chase him? How many lives is it worth?

I'll bet the families of these two girls would gladly replace the car that was stolen if they were able to get their daughters back.

Driving 110 on city streets is stupid. It's stupid no matter who does it. Even emergency vehicle going to a fire won't do 110 because it would be dangerous and stupid.

 

[SavannahMann]

So give them time to get rid of evidence, scrub any DNA off themselves, etc....

Catching them isn't the end goal, convicting them of whatever they did is.

Ok. How many innocents will we accept as collateral damage in the pursuit?

 

[Mac-7]

How many innocent lives is it worth to chase the baddie?

It could mean many more innocent lives lost if the home invasion criminals have no fear of the police

 

[martybegan]

Ok. How many innocents will we accept as collateral damage in the pursuit?

How many innocents killed by people allowed to escape are you willing to accept as collateral damage for not pursuing them?

Eliminate pursuit and all criminals will flee.

 

[pknopp]

How many innocents killed by people allowed to escape are you willing to accept as collateral damage for not pursuing them?

Eliminate pursuit and all criminals will flee.

What makes you think this guy would have killed someone?

He was caught and not by the officer who killed the two girls, right?

 

[Cellblock2429]

Gives them time to lose or destroy any evidence, or scrub themselves of any victim DNA.

/——/ There is no right answer. Each instance is unique.