Continental Drift

[Powerman]

Who here believes in continental drift? You'll see where I'm going with this later. Just want to get a few people on record for this. This will most likely turn into a debate regarding evolution.

 

[USViking]

Who here believes in continental drift? You'll see where I'm going with this later. Just want to get a few people on record for this. This will most likely turn into a debate regarding evolution.

I believe in it.

Not interested in arguing with the yahoos, though.

 

[KarlMarx]

Who here believes in continental drift? You'll see where I'm going with this later. Just want to get a few people on record for this. This will most likely turn into a debate regarding evolution.

I believe that contintental drift, plate techtonics, or whatever else it may be called is a matter of fact, not belief.

There is a lot of evidence to support it. Scientists, using highly precise measuring technology, have measured drift between the continents from year to year. According to the article below, the continents are drifting apart at the same rate that your fingernails grow (about an inch a year).


http://www.wonderquest.com/AtlanticWidening.htm

 

[Powerman]

OK so we have 2 on board for continental drift. That probably means that you believe that the universe is older than scripture would leave you to believe as well. So even in Noah's time the continents would be somewhat similar to where they are today.


Now to my point. Polar Bears and Kangaroos and other such animals....Does anyone here think that Noah bothered to travel all the way to the North Pole to pick up a couple of polar bears or to Australia to get a few Kangaroos for his boat?

The other question that must also be asked is plant life. How did the great flood not destroy all non-oceanic vegetation? Did Noah go to all ends of the earth to pick up seeds from every species of plant known to man? Doubtful.


The point is, if you can disprove the story of the flood which is a myth to most people with a brain then you can discredit Genesis and it's literal interpretation of creation.

 

[Gem]

Actually, while I personally believe that Noah's story was symbolic only, to be completely accurate you must include the information that many major and minor religions that emerged from that area of the world contain a flood parable. One religion, not Christianity, contains a story of a man who loaded all of his worldly possession, including many farm animals, and his entire family onto a raft, and they were some of only a few survivors of the massive flood in this area that killed much of what was living in the area.

If I am not mistaken I believe that the geological record of the area supports the claim that there was a massive flood in the area that would have affected many of the different groups of people in a wide area.

Does it prove the Noah story? Nope...but it does demonstrate the possibility that at least some of what is written about in the Bible did happen...its just how the authors chose to record it, what "spin" they gave it, that varies.

 

[Powerman]

Gem I like you. You seem pretty educated on the matter. Here is a link that discusses some of what I talk about.


http://www.flood-myth.com/index.html

My point it that you can't take every word of the bible litereally. It's just silly to do so.

 

[Abbey Normal]

...My point it that you can't take every word of the bible litereally. It's just silly to do so.

Your statement implies that you take at least some of the bible literally. I am impressed that you are able to discern which parts are real, and which are not.

Would you please tell us which words are literally true, and which are symbolic or just outright lies? Please be sure to let us know how you arrived at your decisions.

 

[Powerman]

Your statement implies that you take at least some of the bible literally. I am impressed that you are able to discern which parts are real, and which are not.

Would you please tell us which words are literally true, and which are symbolic or just outright lies? Please be sure to let us know how you arrived at your decisions.

Actually I'm agnostic. My point is that sometimes the stories might be close or have some truth to them but in the big picture none of it is factual and can be used for a factual guidline. So in short I don't believe anything in the bible to be credible. It's all man written. If the bible were credible then we wouldn't need 4 gospels. If it were the word of God then 1 would suffice. Make sense?

 

[GotZoom]

Actually I'm agnostic. My point is that sometimes the stories might be close or have some truth to them but in the big picture none of it is factual and can be used for a factual guidline. So in short I don't believe anything in the bible to be credible. It's all man written. If the bible were credible then we wouldn't need 4 gospels. If it were the word of God then 1 would suffice. Make sense?

So, if you are right, explain why there is a Bible. What is the point? The purpose?

 

[Abbey Normal]

And to expound on GZ's point, even learned atheists agree that the historical person Jesus existed. If you do not believe that Jesus was the Son of God, do you think He was a liar or insane?

 

[Powerman]

So, if you are right, explain why there is a Bible. What is the point? The purpose?

Sure I'll give you my take on things. A lot of people say that religion gives us morals. I say morals gave us religion. Some guy out there made up a religion because people were primitive and out of control. The only thing they would understand was fear and the fear of God seems to work just fine. Moses who is the alleged author of Genesis probably decided that to make someone believe in a God that he would have to come up with some story to explain the existence of everything which seems logical. Most religions have some sort of creation story. And since all religions can't be right most if not all of them were probably made up. The bible teaches us many good lessons that we should live by. Unfortunately it also has it's share of barbaric nonsense. Thankfully no one pays attention to most of that anymore.

Also religions are competetive in a sense. There were plenty of religions around before modern day Christianity. Much of Christianity is thought to be borrowed from other ancient religions. For example, the tale of Mithras of Persia has some similarities to the tale of Jesus. One that was certainly taken was the birthdate of Jesus. Jesus was born sometime in the summer and Mithras of Persia was born in on dec. 25th. It's easier to convert people of other religions if you keep some of the beliefs and holy days the same. Just substitute a different God and keep the changes gradual...

Other similarities between Jesus and Mithras of Persia include:

The virgin birth
12 disciples
Known as the light of the world
Performed miracles
Was the savior of manking
Was put to death and resurrected


So in a way Christianity is just a retold version of Mithraism which predates Christianity by about 1400 years.

 

[Hobbit]

The 4 gospels are actually a great mechanism, once you understand the purpose. The purpose is not to give a historical account of the life of Jesus. The purpose is to teach what Jesus taught to those who never saw him. Jesus had a way to minister to everyone, so the books of his life are the same way. Matthew was written primarily to Jews and attempts to establish Jesus as the Jewish Messiah. Mark was written primarily to the Romans and shows Jesus as a man of action who can save both Jew and Gentile alike. Luke is written to everyone and shows that he is a savior to all, no matter who you are. It's emphasis seems to be on how Jesus aided outcasts. John is also a more universally targeted book and tends to focus on the divinity of Jesus, the fact that he was the Son of God. Anyway, back to Noah. I don't know that much about continental drift beyond the fact that it makes land move and causes earthquakes.

Meteorologists who study the account of Noah's flood believe that the story may be true, but that the flood covered the Earth as Noah knew it, rather than the entire globe. Through study of the conditions that likely existed back then, meteorologists have determined that if they are correct about the conditions, there could exist a storm pattern called a "hypercane." This storm is similar to a hurricane, but dwarfs any we can see today, both in size and intensity. Such a storm could, in fact, bring rain for forty days and forty nights. It could also flood an entire country for months. These "hypercanes" could also be responsible for flood myths too far from Asia Minor to be based on Noah.

 

[Powerman]

Meteorologists who study the account of Noah's flood believe that the story may be true, but that the flood covered the Earth as Noah knew it, rather than the entire globe. Through study of the conditions that likely existed back then, meteorologists have determined that if they are correct about the conditions, there could exist a storm pattern called a "hypercane." This storm is similar to a hurricane, but dwarfs any we can see today, both in size and intensity. Such a storm could, in fact, bring rain for forty days and forty nights. It could also flood an entire country for months. These "hypercanes" could also be responsible for flood myths too far from Asia Minor to be based on Noah.

They actually had a segment on the history channel earlier today about the great flood. They had several different theories about what happened but the one that made the most sense was that a natural damn had broken and flooded the area and drowned about a thousand people. They also spoke of a tale from the babylonians called the epic of Giglimesh(sp?) that had an almost identical account as the story of Noah. It is thought that the bible borrowed that story as well. Interesting stuff anyways.

 

[alien21010]

Plate tectonics is a fairly well accepted fact... The only people that you might find who dispute it still would be the Young Earth Creationists, and even they are more and more reluctant to pick a fight with the Geological sciences anymore. A very small subsection of Christians still believe in a 10,000 year old Earth, and in order for anyone to listen to them, they have to reckon with plate tectonics. They have some fairly interesting come backs to the scientific evidence, but anyone with half a brain will realize that plate tectonics is fairly rock solid (no pun intended).

Gilgamesh does indeed have the earliest recorded story pertaining to a flood type event. In fact, the story almost parallels the story of Noah, and was written two thousand years before the Old Testament was written. The more that we learn about the history involved behind ancient religions, and civilizations, we understand that they are mostly tied together to one another. For example, the Gilgamesh story, could very well be the basis for the story of Noah.

(Scientists believe that an earthquake destroyed a natural dam, and caused a massive flood that the ancients believed was a god like event. There apparently is a lot of geological evidence for this event, and may be the event that Noah's story is based off of. It would have caused flooding in a large enough area, to effectively be the end of "Noah's world." Of course, you have to remember that most of the gospels were written decades, if not centuries after the events were suppoedly to have taken place. As such, I expect that the whole raining for 40 days and 40 nights was added to give the story more of a mystical backdrop.)