Constantine the Great: Politics and Religion

[Jantje_Smit]

Please....defend yourself against the conclusion that you are a dunce by providing examples of the comparison you suggest.

Nobody cares about your conclusions and I don't feel the need to defend myself at all....

But if it makes you happy, wasn't Caligula the nutty one who claimed to be a god and appointed his horse as a senator?

 

[OZman]

This was enough to allow Christians to engage in the public sphere with freedom, thereby enabling them to spread the Christian message to the ends of the empire and Christianise a pagan culture.... gave Christians the freedom to influence society.."

There was no common Christian "message" before Nicea.

In your earlier post you lest slip your jaundiced view that Christianity is a barbaric religion, as is certain other contemporary...religions....

Here: "to stop you so called Christians from tearing each other apart."

Putting the spotlight on it seems to have forced you to back away from the suggestion.

Excellent.

Arius - Wikipedia

By your changing the subject, one can conclude that you were embarrassed over your earlier slander.

Excellent.

Obviously you know nothing of Christian history. Christianity should be the one embarrassed.

"In addition, if any writing composed by Arius should be found, it should be handed over to the flames, so that not only will the wickedness of his teaching be obliterated, but nothing will be left even to remind anyone of him. And I hereby make a public order, that if someone should be discovered to have hidden a writing composed by Arius, and not to have immediately brought it forward and destroyed it by fire, his penalty shall be death. As soon as he is discovered in this offense, he shall be submitted for capital punishment....."

— Edict by Emperor Constantine against the Arians[33]

 

[Iceweasel]

History proves that the worse thing that can happen to a religion is for government to get involved. We don't need a Constantine, we need a businessman that knows money isn't manna from Heaven.

Of course, Constantine created a totalitarian entity in enforcing Christianity on all subjects...but that is hardly the point of the comparison of Constantine and Trump.

No one expects nor wishes any doctrine to be forced on Americans, and, in fact of the matter, that 'forcing' by the Leftists is a major explanation of for Trump's election.

But....there is this:
Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other.
John Adams

I just don't agree with the analogy and I'm not an Adams fan. He was a Federalist big central government kind of guy and I prefer Jefferson's way of thinking. Yes, no question Christianity was a big influence on men and the government they created but they were smart enough to create a secular guide book.

What is the 'secular guide book'?

The Constitution.

 

[Iceweasel]

....but, as in the following.....seeing Trump as Constantine, the Caesar who installed Christianity in his empire.

Yeah, and the Roman empire only went downhill after that

If you are desperate to compare Trump with a Roman emperor I think Caligula would be a better choice

So much wrong in so few words. The Roman Empire lasted a thousand years and grew tremendously. Too far really but that's beside the point. Trump has been too busy in his life to be a hedon, you must be thinking of Bill Clinton.

 

[PoliticalChic]

Please....defend yourself against the conclusion that you are a dunce by providing examples of the comparison you suggest.

Nobody cares about your conclusions and I don't feel the need to defend myself at all....

But if it makes you happy, wasn't Caligula the nutty one who claimed to be a god and appointed his horse as a senator?

"I don't feel the need to defend myself at all...."

I agree....you're a dunce.
We can leave it at that.

 

[PoliticalChic]

This was enough to allow Christians to engage in the public sphere with freedom, thereby enabling them to spread the Christian message to the ends of the empire and Christianise a pagan culture.... gave Christians the freedom to influence society.."

There was no common Christian "message" before Nicea.

In your earlier post you lest slip your jaundiced view that Christianity is a barbaric religion, as is certain other contemporary...religions....

Here: "to stop you so called Christians from tearing each other apart."

Putting the spotlight on it seems to have forced you to back away from the suggestion.

Excellent.

Arius - Wikipedia

By your changing the subject, one can conclude that you were embarrassed over your earlier slander.

Excellent.

Obviously you know nothing of Christian history. Christianity should be the one embarrassed.

"In addition, if any writing composed by Arius should be found, it should be handed over to the flames, so that not only will the wickedness of his teaching be obliterated, but nothing will be left even to remind anyone of him. And I hereby make a public order, that if someone should be discovered to have hidden a writing composed by Arius, and not to have immediately brought it forward and destroyed it by fire, his penalty shall be death. As soon as he is discovered in this offense, he shall be submitted for capital punishment....."

— Edict by Emperor Constantine against the Arians[33]

"Obviously you know nothing of Christian history. Christianity should be the one embarrassed."

I know enough to have put you in your place, don't I.

 

[PoliticalChic]

History proves that the worse thing that can happen to a religion is for government to get involved. We don't need a Constantine, we need a businessman that knows money isn't manna from Heaven.

Of course, Constantine created a totalitarian entity in enforcing Christianity on all subjects...but that is hardly the point of the comparison of Constantine and Trump.

No one expects nor wishes any doctrine to be forced on Americans, and, in fact of the matter, that 'forcing' by the Leftists is a major explanation of for Trump's election.

But....there is this:
Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other.
John Adams

I just don't agree with the analogy and I'm not an Adams fan. He was a Federalist big central government kind of guy and I prefer Jefferson's way of thinking. Yes, no question Christianity was a big influence on men and the government they created but they were smart enough to create a secular guide book.

What is the 'secular guide book'?

The Constitution.

I was hoping you'd say that.

It was based largely in the Bible....and has a reference to Jesus Christ therein.

1. "Thirty-four percent of all the quotes by the founding fathers came from the Bible. Also, men like Blackstone and Locke, whom the founders quoted, took much of their own quotes from the Bible. Our three branches of government came from Isaiah 33:22. Tax exemption for churches came from Ezra 7:24, which no other nation has today. The book of Deuteronomy was the most quoted book of the Bible by our founding fathers. This book deals much with civil government. This is why America was founded as a republic, not a democracy. We are governed by constitutional law, not by majority law. Our founding fathers, who framed the constitution realized that governments of democracy were short lived and ended in bondage. Democracies are only a step from anarchy."
http://www.fundamentalfaith.com/id38.htm


2. This sort of thing:

The oath of office of the Supreme Court is almost identical with this from the bible:

Here is the oath taken by Supreme Court Justices:

I, _________, do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will administer justice without respect to persons, and do equal right to the poor and to the rich, and that I will faithfully and impartially discharge and perform all the duties incumbent upon me as _________ under the Constitution and laws of the United States.

QED: Bill's wife has no understanding of either justice, nor of the Supreme Court's role.


I hope all notice how similar that oath is to this:
"Do not twist justice in legal matters by favoring the poor or being partial to the rich and powerful. Always judge people fairly."
Leviticus 19:15


3. "Despite the secular nature of our national government, there is one unambiguous reference to Christ in the Constitution. Article VII dates the Constitution in "the Year of our Lord one thousand seven hundred and Eighty seven."
"The Year of Our Lord" and separation.

 

[Jantje_Smit]

So much wrong in so few words. The Roman Empire lasted a thousand years and grew tremendously.

You should have paid more attention in history class, Rome was overrun by the barbarians and the only thing that lasted a 1,000 years was the Eastern part in Constantinopel (Istanbul) and that part didn't expand, it only got smaller

Trump has been too busy in his life to be a hedon, you must be thinking of Bill Clinton.

Bill and Trump have the same mindset

 

[bullwinkle]

Another one of those defining characteristics that differentiates between Left and Right....the former gains it's perspective from the NYTimes, while the latter from an older tome, the Bible.

Leaping from hyperbole to hagiography, some Trump voters have invested huge amount of hope in Donald Trump...not quite the sort that claims him to be God...as the Obama supporters did in '08....
....but, as in the following.....seeing Trump as Constantine, the Caesar who installed Christianity in his empire.


Obama as God...Trump as Constantine
One of these biblical truths:
The thing that hath been, it is that which shall be; and that which is done is that which shall be done: and there is no new thing under the sun.
Ecclesiastes 1:9



An example is this essay by Blaise Joseph, a contributor at Mercatornet, which you may find interesting: Donald Trump as a contemporary Constantine the Great:

1. "Christians are unable to speak freely. Religious freedom is under attack. Society is materialistic and immoral. Western civilisation is facing huge threats, from within and without. And apparently the one powerful emerging leader is no saint.
You’re thinking America 2016? No. Rome 312."


2. Who is 'running for office' at that time? A darn good administrator..... Flavius Valerius Aurelius Constantinus Augustus....Constantine the Great!
."Constantine had many defects: he had multiple wives and even put one of them to death, was extremely ambitious, and was a ruthless general and politician. But the legend remains that he had a “Road to Damascus” moment, saw a vision, converted to Christianity, triumphed over his opponents, and became a great emperor of Rome.
He not only saved "the Roman Empire, but also [championed] Christianity. He signed the Edict of Milan in 313, giving Christians the right to practice their faith and speak freely. This was enough to allow Christians to engage in the public sphere with freedom, thereby enabling them to spread the Christian message to the ends of the empire and Christianise a pagan culture.... gave Christians the freedom to influence society.."

3. And...here we are today:
" Conservatives do not lack will, good arguments, or articulate defenders; what they lack is the freedom to speak bluntly about social issues without being shouted down by the vindictive hordes of secular progressivism for “offending” particular groups of people. ....Conservative Christians have the solutions to many of those problems, but cannot articulate them freely in the public square due to endemic political correctness and cultural Marxism."

4. What makes Donald Trump stand out as a 'caesar' among the politicians we have become used to?
"Whatever else you might say about Trump, he is definitely politically incorrect, and prides himself on that attribute. He refuses to back down after making controversial statements. He does not apologise for offending groups after making arguments. He stands up to the media. He is defiant in spite of being vilified by political elites, journalists, and academics." MercatorNet: Is Trump the new Constantine?


It remains to be seen whether one man can change the course of the tidal wave of secular Marxism.
But....Trump does have the advantage of Barack Obama having revealed what a failure Leftist doctrine is.

<<Conservative Christians have the solutions to many of those problems, but cannot articulate them freely in the public square due to endemic political correctness and cultural Marxism.">>
This seems skewed and whiny to me, since our TV and radio are filled with Falwells and Grahams and Swaggarts and Hagees and Osteens and Ralph Reed (1/3 of the Abramoff triumvirate). They all seem to articulate pretty darn freely to me. The complaint seems not that they aren't able to articulate freely, but that the 'others' that they preach against are now able to also speak freely after centuries, millennia, of being cast as undeserving of humankindness. Evidently it is your wish that this is a passing phase.

I am still waiting, for example, for a holy hellfire emphasis on the evil of the creation of adulterers thru divorce. If we want a Sanhedrin to replace our government, at least be honest. If instead of Representatives and Senators, we want Pharisees and Saduccees and a populace of 'insiders' and 'outsiders' then go for it. Trump's your man to lead you out of the darkness and into the artificial light. Forced Christianity? I don't think that's God's plan. How does I Cor: 13 fit into this? I do hear a lot of 'clanging cymbals', but see very little love in the posturings of the 'righteous' coming out of the conservative Christianity led by Trump/Pence and followers these days. They are the party of separation. And I believe that is how it will be written.

And who said Democrats thought of Obama as God?

 

[Iceweasel]

Bill and Trump have the same mindset

You should have stayed away from huffing glue. Bill does what Trump talks about.

 

[PoliticalChic]

So much wrong in so few words. The Roman Empire lasted a thousand years and grew tremendously.

You should have paid more attention in history class, Rome was overrun by the barbarians and the only thing that lasted a 1,000 years was the Eastern part in Constantinopel (Istanbul) and that part didn't expand, it only got smaller

Trump has been too busy in his life to be a hedon, you must be thinking of Bill Clinton.

Bill and Trump have the same mindset

See how I've reduced you from dunce to liar?

And how quickly!!!

 

[PoliticalChic]

Another one of those defining characteristics that differentiates between Left and Right....the former gains it's perspective from the NYTimes, while the latter from an older tome, the Bible.

Leaping from hyperbole to hagiography, some Trump voters have invested huge amount of hope in Donald Trump...not quite the sort that claims him to be God...as the Obama supporters did in '08....
....but, as in the following.....seeing Trump as Constantine, the Caesar who installed Christianity in his empire.


Obama as God...Trump as Constantine
One of these biblical truths:
The thing that hath been, it is that which shall be; and that which is done is that which shall be done: and there is no new thing under the sun.
Ecclesiastes 1:9



An example is this essay by Blaise Joseph, a contributor at Mercatornet, which you may find interesting: Donald Trump as a contemporary Constantine the Great:

1. "Christians are unable to speak freely. Religious freedom is under attack. Society is materialistic and immoral. Western civilisation is facing huge threats, from within and without. And apparently the one powerful emerging leader is no saint.
You’re thinking America 2016? No. Rome 312."


2. Who is 'running for office' at that time? A darn good administrator..... Flavius Valerius Aurelius Constantinus Augustus....Constantine the Great!
."Constantine had many defects: he had multiple wives and even put one of them to death, was extremely ambitious, and was a ruthless general and politician. But the legend remains that he had a “Road to Damascus” moment, saw a vision, converted to Christianity, triumphed over his opponents, and became a great emperor of Rome.
He not only saved "the Roman Empire, but also [championed] Christianity. He signed the Edict of Milan in 313, giving Christians the right to practice their faith and speak freely. This was enough to allow Christians to engage in the public sphere with freedom, thereby enabling them to spread the Christian message to the ends of the empire and Christianise a pagan culture.... gave Christians the freedom to influence society.."

3. And...here we are today:
" Conservatives do not lack will, good arguments, or articulate defenders; what they lack is the freedom to speak bluntly about social issues without being shouted down by the vindictive hordes of secular progressivism for “offending” particular groups of people. ....Conservative Christians have the solutions to many of those problems, but cannot articulate them freely in the public square due to endemic political correctness and cultural Marxism."

4. What makes Donald Trump stand out as a 'caesar' among the politicians we have become used to?
"Whatever else you might say about Trump, he is definitely politically incorrect, and prides himself on that attribute. He refuses to back down after making controversial statements. He does not apologise for offending groups after making arguments. He stands up to the media. He is defiant in spite of being vilified by political elites, journalists, and academics." MercatorNet: Is Trump the new Constantine?


It remains to be seen whether one man can change the course of the tidal wave of secular Marxism.
But....Trump does have the advantage of Barack Obama having revealed what a failure Leftist doctrine is.

<<Conservative Christians have the solutions to many of those problems, but cannot articulate them freely in the public square due to endemic political correctness and cultural Marxism.">>
This seems skewed and whiny to me, since our TV and radio are filled with Falwells and Grahams and Swaggarts and Hagees and Osteens and Ralph Reed (1/3 of the Abramoff triumvirate). They all seem to articulate pretty darn freely to me. The complaint seems not that they aren't able to articulate freely, but that the 'others' that they preach against are now able to also speak freely after centuries, millennia, of being cast as undeserving of humankindness. Evidently it is your wish that this is a passing phase.

I am still waiting, for example, for a holy hellfire emphasis on the evil of the creation of adulterers thru divorce. If we want a Sanhedrin to replace our government, at least be honest. If instead of Representatives and Senators, we want Pharisees and Saduccees and a populace of 'insiders' and 'outsiders' then go for it. Trump's your man to lead you out of the darkness and into the artificial light. Forced Christianity? I don't think that's God's plan. How does I Cor: 13 fit into this? I do hear a lot of 'clanging cymbals', but see very little love in the posturings of the 'righteous' coming out of the conservative Christianity led by Trump/Pence and followers these days. They are the party of separation. And I believe that is how it will be written.

And who said Democrats thought of Obama as God?

"This seems skewed and whiny to me, since our TV and radio are filled with Falwells and Grahams and Swaggarts and Hagees and Osteens and Ralph Reed (1/3 of the Abramoff triumvirate)."

This seems bordering on pretense.

How about including the school system, the main stream media, cable TV, and the entertainment/pop culture industry?

Wanna revise your post?

 

[Iceweasel]

History proves that the worse thing that can happen to a religion is for government to get involved. We don't need a Constantine, we need a businessman that knows money isn't manna from Heaven.

Of course, Constantine created a totalitarian entity in enforcing Christianity on all subjects...but that is hardly the point of the comparison of Constantine and Trump.

No one expects nor wishes any doctrine to be forced on Americans, and, in fact of the matter, that 'forcing' by the Leftists is a major explanation of for Trump's election.

But....there is this:
Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other.
John Adams

I just don't agree with the analogy and I'm not an Adams fan. He was a Federalist big central government kind of guy and I prefer Jefferson's way of thinking. Yes, no question Christianity was a big influence on men and the government they created but they were smart enough to create a secular guide book.

What is the 'secular guide book'?

The Constitution.

I was hoping you'd say that.

It was based largely in the Bible....and has a reference to Jesus Christ therein.

1. "Thirty-four percent of all the quotes by the founding fathers came from the Bible. Also, men like Blackstone and Locke, whom the founders quoted, took much of their own quotes from the Bible. Our three branches of government came from Isaiah 33:22. Tax exemption for churches came from Ezra 7:24, which no other nation has today. The book of Deuteronomy was the most quoted book of the Bible by our founding fathers. This book deals much with civil government. This is why America was founded as a republic, not a democracy. We are governed by constitutional law, not by majority law. Our founding fathers, who framed the constitution realized that governments of democracy were short lived and ended in bondage. Democracies are only a step from anarchy."
http://www.fundamentalfaith.com/id38.htm


2. This sort of thing:

The oath of office of the Supreme Court is almost identical with this from the bible:

Here is the oath taken by Supreme Court Justices:

I, _________, do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will administer justice without respect to persons, and do equal right to the poor and to the rich, and that I will faithfully and impartially discharge and perform all the duties incumbent upon me as _________ under the Constitution and laws of the United States.

QED: Bill's wife has no understanding of either justice, nor of the Supreme Court's role.


I hope all notice how similar that oath is to this:
"Do not twist justice in legal matters by favoring the poor or being partial to the rich and powerful. Always judge people fairly."
Leviticus 19:15


3. "Despite the secular nature of our national government, there is one unambiguous reference to Christ in the Constitution. Article VII dates the Constitution in "the Year of our Lord one thousand seven hundred and Eighty seven."
"The Year of Our Lord" and separation.

I said Christianity was very influential. I then said but we had a secular guideline. you asked what it was and I said the Constitution. Now you are supporting my culture comment. The year of our lord is a phrase regarding the time, quite common in the day. It's not a mandate or law. You are trying to fit facts into a belief.

 

[bullwinkle]

Another one of those defining characteristics that differentiates between Left and Right....the former gains it's perspective from the NYTimes, while the latter from an older tome, the Bible.

Leaping from hyperbole to hagiography, some Trump voters have invested huge amount of hope in Donald Trump...not quite the sort that claims him to be God...as the Obama supporters did in '08....
....but, as in the following.....seeing Trump as Constantine, the Caesar who installed Christianity in his empire.


Obama as God...Trump as Constantine
One of these biblical truths:
The thing that hath been, it is that which shall be; and that which is done is that which shall be done: and there is no new thing under the sun.
Ecclesiastes 1:9



An example is this essay by Blaise Joseph, a contributor at Mercatornet, which you may find interesting: Donald Trump as a contemporary Constantine the Great:

1. "Christians are unable to speak freely. Religious freedom is under attack. Society is materialistic and immoral. Western civilisation is facing huge threats, from within and without. And apparently the one powerful emerging leader is no saint.
You’re thinking America 2016? No. Rome 312."


2. Who is 'running for office' at that time? A darn good administrator..... Flavius Valerius Aurelius Constantinus Augustus....Constantine the Great!
."Constantine had many defects: he had multiple wives and even put one of them to death, was extremely ambitious, and was a ruthless general and politician. But the legend remains that he had a “Road to Damascus” moment, saw a vision, converted to Christianity, triumphed over his opponents, and became a great emperor of Rome.
He not only saved "the Roman Empire, but also [championed] Christianity. He signed the Edict of Milan in 313, giving Christians the right to practice their faith and speak freely. This was enough to allow Christians to engage in the public sphere with freedom, thereby enabling them to spread the Christian message to the ends of the empire and Christianise a pagan culture.... gave Christians the freedom to influence society.."

3. And...here we are today:
" Conservatives do not lack will, good arguments, or articulate defenders; what they lack is the freedom to speak bluntly about social issues without being shouted down by the vindictive hordes of secular progressivism for “offending” particular groups of people. ....Conservative Christians have the solutions to many of those problems, but cannot articulate them freely in the public square due to endemic political correctness and cultural Marxism."

4. What makes Donald Trump stand out as a 'caesar' among the politicians we have become used to?
"Whatever else you might say about Trump, he is definitely politically incorrect, and prides himself on that attribute. He refuses to back down after making controversial statements. He does not apologise for offending groups after making arguments. He stands up to the media. He is defiant in spite of being vilified by political elites, journalists, and academics." MercatorNet: Is Trump the new Constantine?


It remains to be seen whether one man can change the course of the tidal wave of secular Marxism.
But....Trump does have the advantage of Barack Obama having revealed what a failure Leftist doctrine is.

<<Conservative Christians have the solutions to many of those problems, but cannot articulate them freely in the public square due to endemic political correctness and cultural Marxism.">>
This seems skewed and whiny to me, since our TV and radio are filled with Falwells and Grahams and Swaggarts and Hagees and Osteens and Ralph Reed (1/3 of the Abramoff triumvirate). They all seem to articulate pretty darn freely to me. The complaint seems not that they aren't able to articulate freely, but that the 'others' that they preach against are now able to also speak freely after centuries, millennia, of being cast as undeserving of humankindness. Evidently it is your wish that this is a passing phase.

I am still waiting, for example, for a holy hellfire emphasis on the evil of the creation of adulterers thru divorce. If we want a Sanhedrin to replace our government, at least be honest. If instead of Representatives and Senators, we want Pharisees and Saduccees and a populace of 'insiders' and 'outsiders' then go for it. Trump's your man to lead you out of the darkness and into the artificial light. Forced Christianity? I don't think that's God's plan. How does I Cor: 13 fit into this? I do hear a lot of 'clanging cymbals', but see very little love in the posturings of the 'righteous' coming out of the conservative Christianity led by Trump/Pence and followers these days. They are the party of separation. And I believe that is how it will be written.

And who said Democrats thought of Obama as God?

"This seems skewed and whiny to me, since our TV and radio are filled with Falwells and Grahams and Swaggarts and Hagees and Osteens and Ralph Reed (1/3 of the Abramoff triumvirate)."

This seems bordering on pretense.

How about including the school system, the main stream media, cable TV, and the entertainment/pop culture industry?

Wanna revise your post?

Absolutely not! And please cease the attempt at being such a self righteous arbitrator of religious belief. Pomposity goeth before the fall.

 

[PoliticalChic]

Of course, Constantine created a totalitarian entity in enforcing Christianity on all subjects...but that is hardly the point of the comparison of Constantine and Trump.

No one expects nor wishes any doctrine to be forced on Americans, and, in fact of the matter, that 'forcing' by the Leftists is a major explanation of for Trump's election.

But....there is this:
Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other.
John Adams

I just don't agree with the analogy and I'm not an Adams fan. He was a Federalist big central government kind of guy and I prefer Jefferson's way of thinking. Yes, no question Christianity was a big influence on men and the government they created but they were smart enough to create a secular guide book.

What is the 'secular guide book'?

The Constitution.

I was hoping you'd say that.

It was based largely in the Bible....and has a reference to Jesus Christ therein.

1. "Thirty-four percent of all the quotes by the founding fathers came from the Bible. Also, men like Blackstone and Locke, whom the founders quoted, took much of their own quotes from the Bible. Our three branches of government came from Isaiah 33:22. Tax exemption for churches came from Ezra 7:24, which no other nation has today. The book of Deuteronomy was the most quoted book of the Bible by our founding fathers. This book deals much with civil government. This is why America was founded as a republic, not a democracy. We are governed by constitutional law, not by majority law. Our founding fathers, who framed the constitution realized that governments of democracy were short lived and ended in bondage. Democracies are only a step from anarchy."
http://www.fundamentalfaith.com/id38.htm


2. This sort of thing:

The oath of office of the Supreme Court is almost identical with this from the bible:

Here is the oath taken by Supreme Court Justices:

I, _________, do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will administer justice without respect to persons, and do equal right to the poor and to the rich, and that I will faithfully and impartially discharge and perform all the duties incumbent upon me as _________ under the Constitution and laws of the United States.

QED: Bill's wife has no understanding of either justice, nor of the Supreme Court's role.


I hope all notice how similar that oath is to this:
"Do not twist justice in legal matters by favoring the poor or being partial to the rich and powerful. Always judge people fairly."
Leviticus 19:15


3. "Despite the secular nature of our national government, there is one unambiguous reference to Christ in the Constitution. Article VII dates the Constitution in "the Year of our Lord one thousand seven hundred and Eighty seven."
"The Year of Our Lord" and separation.

I said Christianity was very influential. I then said but we had a secular guideline. you asked what it was and I said the Constitution. Now you are supporting my culture comment. The year of our lord is a phrase regarding the time, quite common in the day. It's not a mandate or law. You are trying to fit facts into a belief.

The reference is there, and if there has been any attempt at 'a secular nation,' it wouldn't have been.


“52 of the 56 signers of the declaration and 50 to 52 of the 55 signers of the Constitution were orthodox Trinitarian Christians.” David Limbaugh

Believers in the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost, or, as they would be known today, “an extremist Fundementalist hate group.”
Coulter

 

[PoliticalChic]

Another one of those defining characteristics that differentiates between Left and Right....the former gains it's perspective from the NYTimes, while the latter from an older tome, the Bible.

Leaping from hyperbole to hagiography, some Trump voters have invested huge amount of hope in Donald Trump...not quite the sort that claims him to be God...as the Obama supporters did in '08....
....but, as in the following.....seeing Trump as Constantine, the Caesar who installed Christianity in his empire.


Obama as God...Trump as Constantine
One of these biblical truths:
The thing that hath been, it is that which shall be; and that which is done is that which shall be done: and there is no new thing under the sun.
Ecclesiastes 1:9



An example is this essay by Blaise Joseph, a contributor at Mercatornet, which you may find interesting: Donald Trump as a contemporary Constantine the Great:

1. "Christians are unable to speak freely. Religious freedom is under attack. Society is materialistic and immoral. Western civilisation is facing huge threats, from within and without. And apparently the one powerful emerging leader is no saint.
You’re thinking America 2016? No. Rome 312."


2. Who is 'running for office' at that time? A darn good administrator..... Flavius Valerius Aurelius Constantinus Augustus....Constantine the Great!
."Constantine had many defects: he had multiple wives and even put one of them to death, was extremely ambitious, and was a ruthless general and politician. But the legend remains that he had a “Road to Damascus” moment, saw a vision, converted to Christianity, triumphed over his opponents, and became a great emperor of Rome.
He not only saved "the Roman Empire, but also [championed] Christianity. He signed the Edict of Milan in 313, giving Christians the right to practice their faith and speak freely. This was enough to allow Christians to engage in the public sphere with freedom, thereby enabling them to spread the Christian message to the ends of the empire and Christianise a pagan culture.... gave Christians the freedom to influence society.."

3. And...here we are today:
" Conservatives do not lack will, good arguments, or articulate defenders; what they lack is the freedom to speak bluntly about social issues without being shouted down by the vindictive hordes of secular progressivism for “offending” particular groups of people. ....Conservative Christians have the solutions to many of those problems, but cannot articulate them freely in the public square due to endemic political correctness and cultural Marxism."

4. What makes Donald Trump stand out as a 'caesar' among the politicians we have become used to?
"Whatever else you might say about Trump, he is definitely politically incorrect, and prides himself on that attribute. He refuses to back down after making controversial statements. He does not apologise for offending groups after making arguments. He stands up to the media. He is defiant in spite of being vilified by political elites, journalists, and academics." MercatorNet: Is Trump the new Constantine?


It remains to be seen whether one man can change the course of the tidal wave of secular Marxism.
But....Trump does have the advantage of Barack Obama having revealed what a failure Leftist doctrine is.

<<Conservative Christians have the solutions to many of those problems, but cannot articulate them freely in the public square due to endemic political correctness and cultural Marxism.">>
This seems skewed and whiny to me, since our TV and radio are filled with Falwells and Grahams and Swaggarts and Hagees and Osteens and Ralph Reed (1/3 of the Abramoff triumvirate). They all seem to articulate pretty darn freely to me. The complaint seems not that they aren't able to articulate freely, but that the 'others' that they preach against are now able to also speak freely after centuries, millennia, of being cast as undeserving of humankindness. Evidently it is your wish that this is a passing phase.

I am still waiting, for example, for a holy hellfire emphasis on the evil of the creation of adulterers thru divorce. If we want a Sanhedrin to replace our government, at least be honest. If instead of Representatives and Senators, we want Pharisees and Saduccees and a populace of 'insiders' and 'outsiders' then go for it. Trump's your man to lead you out of the darkness and into the artificial light. Forced Christianity? I don't think that's God's plan. How does I Cor: 13 fit into this? I do hear a lot of 'clanging cymbals', but see very little love in the posturings of the 'righteous' coming out of the conservative Christianity led by Trump/Pence and followers these days. They are the party of separation. And I believe that is how it will be written.

And who said Democrats thought of Obama as God?

"This seems skewed and whiny to me, since our TV and radio are filled with Falwells and Grahams and Swaggarts and Hagees and Osteens and Ralph Reed (1/3 of the Abramoff triumvirate)."

This seems bordering on pretense.

How about including the school system, the main stream media, cable TV, and the entertainment/pop culture industry?

Wanna revise your post?

Absolutely not! And please cease the attempt at being such a self righteous arbitrator of religious belief. Pomposity goeth before the fall.

So you care not to include reality in your worldview.

That's OK.

 

[PoliticalChic]

6. There is the expectation.....the hope....that the Trump victory will signal a new passage for conservatives, a new platform and voice.

"... making perfectly reasonable statements causes so much outrage that conservatives either give up or end up losing credibility and becoming impotent in influencing public opinion. Arguments are not considered on their merits but rather assessed based on the extent to which they offend particular groups of people. This makes the conservative Christian cause in the public sphere ultimately hopeless."
MercatorNet: Is Trump the new Constantine?



Here's where Trump exhibits a gift that an earlier President, the finest in modern times, one who achieved the highest total electoral college vote in our history earned....simply adhere to the truth, and don't pander to voter-groups.
No identity politics.


"....consider the example of illegal immigration. Trump is tapping into the understandable tendency for ordinary citizens to be sceptical of high levels of immigration, especially when there is little or no order to the immigration program. For many years, this was a no-go-zone, as those who raised the issue were shouted down by calls of “racist” and allegations of offending immigrants, Mexicans, etc. Trump, however, in less than a year, has managed to kick-start a proper debate on the topic by refusing to be howled down and apologise for potentially offending minority groups. Regardless of your views on illegal immigration, it is clear that the tactics of the cultural Marxists, used in the immigration debate, simply do not work against Trump."
Ibid.



The author should have gone even further, and pointed out that the Democrat position is one that essentially ends American sovereignty.

It could be argued that defending sovereignty of a nation is also a comparison of Trump with Constantine.
"As emperor, Constantine enacted many administrative, financial, social, and military reforms to strengthen the empire." Constantine the Great - Wikipedia



And, such is the hope for a Donald Trump presidency.

 

[Iceweasel]

I just don't agree with the analogy and I'm not an Adams fan. He was a Federalist big central government kind of guy and I prefer Jefferson's way of thinking. Yes, no question Christianity was a big influence on men and the government they created but they were smart enough to create a secular guide book.

What is the 'secular guide book'?

The Constitution.

I was hoping you'd say that.

It was based largely in the Bible....and has a reference to Jesus Christ therein.

1. "Thirty-four percent of all the quotes by the founding fathers came from the Bible. Also, men like Blackstone and Locke, whom the founders quoted, took much of their own quotes from the Bible. Our three branches of government came from Isaiah 33:22. Tax exemption for churches came from Ezra 7:24, which no other nation has today. The book of Deuteronomy was the most quoted book of the Bible by our founding fathers. This book deals much with civil government. This is why America was founded as a republic, not a democracy. We are governed by constitutional law, not by majority law. Our founding fathers, who framed the constitution realized that governments of democracy were short lived and ended in bondage. Democracies are only a step from anarchy."
http://www.fundamentalfaith.com/id38.htm


2. This sort of thing:

The oath of office of the Supreme Court is almost identical with this from the bible:

Here is the oath taken by Supreme Court Justices:

I, _________, do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will administer justice without respect to persons, and do equal right to the poor and to the rich, and that I will faithfully and impartially discharge and perform all the duties incumbent upon me as _________ under the Constitution and laws of the United States.

QED: Bill's wife has no understanding of either justice, nor of the Supreme Court's role.


I hope all notice how similar that oath is to this:
"Do not twist justice in legal matters by favoring the poor or being partial to the rich and powerful. Always judge people fairly."
Leviticus 19:15


3. "Despite the secular nature of our national government, there is one unambiguous reference to Christ in the Constitution. Article VII dates the Constitution in "the Year of our Lord one thousand seven hundred and Eighty seven."
"The Year of Our Lord" and separation.

I said Christianity was very influential. I then said but we had a secular guideline. you asked what it was and I said the Constitution. Now you are supporting my culture comment. The year of our lord is a phrase regarding the time, quite common in the day. It's not a mandate or law. You are trying to fit facts into a belief.

The reference is there, and if there has been any attempt at 'a secular nation,' it wouldn't have been.


“52 of the 56 signers of the declaration and 50 to 52 of the 55 signers of the Constitution were orthodox Trinitarian Christians.” David Limbaugh

Believers in the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost, or, as they would be known today, “an extremist Fundementalist hate group.”
Coulter

Goddamit, will you read the actual words? I said, three times now that Christianity influence the culture a great deal but the founders were wise enough to create a secular rule book. The Constitution does not promote or inhibit religion.

 

[ThoughtCrimes]

Goddamit, will you read the actual words? I said, three times now that Christianity influence the culture a great deal but the founders were wise enough to create a secular rule book. The Constitution does not promote or inhibit religion.

Damn...For the first time ever, I'm going to have to agree with you 100% on that statement! Good Luck on getting Cynthia/Chica to admit you are correct and she is wrong!

 

[NYcarbineer]

6. There is the expectation.....the hope....that the Trump victory will signal a new passage for conservatives, a new platform and voice.

"... making perfectly reasonable statements causes so much outrage that conservatives either give up or end up losing credibility and becoming impotent in influencing public opinion. Arguments are not considered on their merits but rather assessed based on the extent to which they offend particular groups of people. This makes the conservative Christian cause in the public sphere ultimately hopeless."
MercatorNet: Is Trump the new Constantine?



Here's where Trump exhibits a gift that an earlier President, the finest in modern times, one who achieved the highest total electoral college vote in our history earned....simply adhere to the truth, and don't pander to voter-groups.
No identity politics.


"....consider the example of illegal immigration. Trump is tapping into the understandable tendency for ordinary citizens to be sceptical of high levels of immigration, especially when there is little or no order to the immigration program. For many years, this was a no-go-zone, as those who raised the issue were shouted down by calls of “racist” and allegations of offending immigrants, Mexicans, etc. Trump, however, in less than a year, has managed to kick-start a proper debate on the topic by refusing to be howled down and apologise for potentially offending minority groups. Regardless of your views on illegal immigration, it is clear that the tactics of the cultural Marxists, used in the immigration debate, simply do not work against Trump."
Ibid.



The author should have gone even further, and pointed out that the Democrat position is one that essentially ends American sovereignty.

It could be argued that defending sovereignty of a nation is also a comparison of Trump with Constantine.
"As emperor, Constantine enacted many administrative, financial, social, and military reforms to strengthen the empire." Constantine the Great - Wikipedia



And, such is the hope for a Donald Trump presidency.

PoliticalChic supporting a protectionist. That's good comedy.