CONSERVATIVES.....HEH; Total "Cost of War" since 2001; <--this is only accurate for .00001 seconds

[AntiParty]

1,617, 628, 573, 988

Cost of National Security Counting How Much the U.S. Spends Per Hour

These people asking for food are the problem?

Learn the difference between necessary and unnecessary war. We were told we should be at war with 2-4 other Countries since Obama took Presidency.

Why are we so eager to spend on war but not our veterans?

 

[occupied]

Because the MIC has trained the American public very well and paid their pet politicians VERY well. None of the warhawks give a thought to the human cost of war or it's aftermath. They are just chasing glory, the least rational reason to make war.

 

[whitehall]

Every military adventure during the 20th century happened during a democrat administration. Clinton's war in Bosnia in 1995 (without approval from congress) to deflect attention from his peculiar sexual urges cost the U.S. about 10 billion and cost the lives of about 35,000 Yugoslavians and about 3 million refugees. What did it accomplish besides ruining the Yugoslavian economy? A change of regimes and a power vacuum.

 

[Andylusion]

1,617, 628, 573, 988

Cost of National Security Counting How Much the U.S. Spends Per Hour

These people asking for food are the problem?

Learn the difference between necessary and unnecessary war. We were told we should be at war with 2-4 other Countries since Obama took Presidency.

Why are we so eager to spend on war but not our veterans?

Um.... because defense is the fundamental, and primary reason the Federal government exists. Not "taking care of people". Able bodied people can take care of themselves. Learn a skill, and earn your keep.

Besides that, Government does a terrible job of "taking care of people". Saying you want government to take care of people, is equal to saying "I want government to kill people". Government health care for vets is your idea, not ours. Look at the results of your idea.

A fatal wait Veterans languish and die on a VA hospital s secret list - CNN.com

That's your doing, not ours.

 

[SassyIrishLass]

I don't know they are bitching about, they still get their food stamps, free phones, welfare and other "entitlements" ....unless of course they want more of it

 

[occupied]

1,617, 628, 573, 988

Cost of National Security Counting How Much the U.S. Spends Per Hour

These people asking for food are the problem?

Learn the difference between necessary and unnecessary war. We were told we should be at war with 2-4 other Countries since Obama took Presidency.

Why are we so eager to spend on war but not our veterans?

Um.... because defense is the fundamental, and primary reason the Federal government exists. Not "taking care of people". Able bodied people can take care of themselves. Learn a skill, and earn your keep.

Besides that, Government does a terrible job of "taking care of people". Saying you want government to take care of people, is equal to saying "I want government to kill people". Government health care for vets is your idea, not ours. Look at the results of your idea.

A fatal wait Veterans languish and die on a VA hospital s secret list - CNN.com

That's your doing, not ours.

All of our problems in the VA are a result of not adding capacity ahead of the large numbers of terribly wounded soldiers who lived instead of died as was formerly the case. In the war zone they did an amazing job of getting the wounded to medical care and saving their lives in spite of horrific injury because they invested heavily in med-evac personnel and equipment. Back home the urgency is not felt by the bean counters who literately nickel-and-dime our vets to death. The same people who lavish money on weapons systems are not so eager to take responsibility for the aftermath.

 

[Andylusion]

Because the MIC has trained the American public very well and paid their pet politicians VERY well. None of the warhawks give a thought to the human cost of war or it's aftermath. They are just chasing glory, the least rational reason to make war.

You know.... for a fact.... that not one person who supported military action, ever thought about the human cost? You know that.... as a fact you know this? Really? So you are like 'god' and can read minds and such?

 

[occupied]

Because the MIC has trained the American public very well and paid their pet politicians VERY well. None of the warhawks give a thought to the human cost of war or it's aftermath. They are just chasing glory, the least rational reason to make war.

You know.... for a fact.... that not one person who supported military action, ever thought about the human cost? You know that.... as a fact you know this? Really? So you are like 'god' and can read minds and such?

Yes, I can read minds. If the people who continually urge for armed conflict were in the habit of considering the human cost of war we would not have them.

 

[hipeter924]

Every country has its waste areas, in America that is mostly in defense spending and subsidies to corporations.

In Europe, most of the waste is from EU bureaucrats, and in France the state sector is flooded with civil servants.

 

[Andylusion]

1,617, 628, 573, 988

Cost of National Security Counting How Much the U.S. Spends Per Hour

These people asking for food are the problem?

Learn the difference between necessary and unnecessary war. We were told we should be at war with 2-4 other Countries since Obama took Presidency.

Why are we so eager to spend on war but not our veterans?

Um.... because defense is the fundamental, and primary reason the Federal government exists. Not "taking care of people". Able bodied people can take care of themselves. Learn a skill, and earn your keep.

Besides that, Government does a terrible job of "taking care of people". Saying you want government to take care of people, is equal to saying "I want government to kill people". Government health care for vets is your idea, not ours. Look at the results of your idea.

A fatal wait Veterans languish and die on a VA hospital s secret list - CNN.com

That's your doing, not ours.

All of our problems in the VA are a result of not adding capacity ahead of the large numbers of terribly wounded soldiers who lived instead of died as was formerly the case. In the war zone they did an amazing job of getting the wounded to medical care and saving their lives in spite of horrific injury because they invested heavily in med-evac personnel and equipment. Back home the urgency is not felt by the bean counters who literately nickel-and-dime our vets to death. The same people who lavish money on weapons systems are not so eager to take responsibility for the aftermath.

Yeah... but... if that is the only problem, then why do we see waiting lists in the UK...

NHS waiting list passes 3m for first time in six years Society The Guardian

And in Canada....

Wait lists A study in shared madness BC Medical Journal

And in Sweden...

Swedes buy insurance to skip long health queues - The Local

I've read the same in Norway, and Australia, and several other countries.

Do you really think it the 'bean counters' at the VA, must have infested every socialized system across the world?

See, here's the real problem. In a free-market Capitalist system, when more people go to the hospital, the hospital has more money. The hospital uses that money, to hire more doctors and staff, to provide service to more people. Thus the capitalist pay-for-service system naturally regulates itself to provide more service to more people.

In a socialized care system, there is no positive feedback loop. Thus someone in government, makes a bill that says 'hospital x gets z amount of money'. And they have to make do with whatever amount of money they have.

So if twice as many people show up for care, as there is money, then the care must be rationed. It's not that there are these demonic 'bean counters' just arbitrarily finding ways to make vets suffer. There simply isn't unlimited funds to provide unlimited care. Someone has to make the decision that this will get funded, and this won't, because their simply isn't unlimited funds for everything you want.

This is why every single completely socialized system, inherently ends up with rationed care.

 

[Andylusion]

Because the MIC has trained the American public very well and paid their pet politicians VERY well. None of the warhawks give a thought to the human cost of war or it's aftermath. They are just chasing glory, the least rational reason to make war.

You know.... for a fact.... that not one person who supported military action, ever thought about the human cost? You know that.... as a fact you know this? Really? So you are like 'god' and can read minds and such?

Yes, I can read minds. If the people who continually urge for armed conflict were in the habit of considering the human cost of war we would not have them.

You are an arrogant lying idiot. I am not an LBJ fan, but LBJ thought we had to fight Vietnam, and yet everything that we know from that time, showed that our men dying in war disturbed him tremendously. You are a fool. Total complete idiot fool. Just shut up. You don't know jack squat.

 

[occupied]

1,617, 628, 573, 988

Cost of National Security Counting How Much the U.S. Spends Per Hour

These people asking for food are the problem?

Learn the difference between necessary and unnecessary war. We were told we should be at war with 2-4 other Countries since Obama took Presidency.

Why are we so eager to spend on war but not our veterans?

Um.... because defense is the fundamental, and primary reason the Federal government exists. Not "taking care of people". Able bodied people can take care of themselves. Learn a skill, and earn your keep.

Besides that, Government does a terrible job of "taking care of people". Saying you want government to take care of people, is equal to saying "I want government to kill people". Government health care for vets is your idea, not ours. Look at the results of your idea.

A fatal wait Veterans languish and die on a VA hospital s secret list - CNN.com

That's your doing, not ours.

All of our problems in the VA are a result of not adding capacity ahead of the large numbers of terribly wounded soldiers who lived instead of died as was formerly the case. In the war zone they did an amazing job of getting the wounded to medical care and saving their lives in spite of horrific injury because they invested heavily in med-evac personnel and equipment. Back home the urgency is not felt by the bean counters who literately nickel-and-dime our vets to death. The same people who lavish money on weapons systems are not so eager to take responsibility for the aftermath.

Yeah... but... if that is the only problem, then why do we see waiting lists in the UK...

NHS waiting list passes 3m for first time in six years Society The Guardian

And in Canada....

Wait lists A study in shared madness BC Medical Journal

And in Sweden...

Swedes buy insurance to skip long health queues - The Local

I've read the same in Norway, and Australia, and several other countries.

Do you really think it the 'bean counters' at the VA, must have infested every socialized system across the world?

See, here's the real problem. In a free-market Capitalist system, when more people go to the hospital, the hospital has more money. The hospital uses that money, to hire more doctors and staff, to provide service to more people. Thus the capitalist pay-for-service system naturally regulates itself to provide more service to more people.

In a socialized care system, there is no positive feedback loop. Thus someone in government, makes a bill that says 'hospital x gets z amount of money'. And they have to make do with whatever amount of money they have.

So if twice as many people show up for care, as there is money, then the care must be rationed. It's not that there are these demonic 'bean counters' just arbitrarily finding ways to make vets suffer. There simply isn't unlimited funds to provide unlimited care. Someone has to make the decision that this will get funded, and this won't, because their simply isn't unlimited funds for everything you want.

This is why every single completely socialized system, inherently ends up with rationed care.

Sky was the limit on war spending, the bean counters were delegated to the back of the room. Veterans need specialized care that is just not readily available in the private sector and in this case we should feel just as compelled to whip out the checkbook and spend what it takes or just not start wars in the first place.

 

[Andylusion]

1,617, 628, 573, 988

Cost of National Security Counting How Much the U.S. Spends Per Hour

These people asking for food are the problem?

Learn the difference between necessary and unnecessary war. We were told we should be at war with 2-4 other Countries since Obama took Presidency.

Why are we so eager to spend on war but not our veterans?

Um.... because defense is the fundamental, and primary reason the Federal government exists. Not "taking care of people". Able bodied people can take care of themselves. Learn a skill, and earn your keep.

Besides that, Government does a terrible job of "taking care of people". Saying you want government to take care of people, is equal to saying "I want government to kill people". Government health care for vets is your idea, not ours. Look at the results of your idea.

A fatal wait Veterans languish and die on a VA hospital s secret list - CNN.com

That's your doing, not ours.

All of our problems in the VA are a result of not adding capacity ahead of the large numbers of terribly wounded soldiers who lived instead of died as was formerly the case. In the war zone they did an amazing job of getting the wounded to medical care and saving their lives in spite of horrific injury because they invested heavily in med-evac personnel and equipment. Back home the urgency is not felt by the bean counters who literately nickel-and-dime our vets to death. The same people who lavish money on weapons systems are not so eager to take responsibility for the aftermath.

Yeah... but... if that is the only problem, then why do we see waiting lists in the UK...

NHS waiting list passes 3m for first time in six years Society The Guardian

And in Canada....

Wait lists A study in shared madness BC Medical Journal

And in Sweden...

Swedes buy insurance to skip long health queues - The Local

I've read the same in Norway, and Australia, and several other countries.

Do you really think it the 'bean counters' at the VA, must have infested every socialized system across the world?

See, here's the real problem. In a free-market Capitalist system, when more people go to the hospital, the hospital has more money. The hospital uses that money, to hire more doctors and staff, to provide service to more people. Thus the capitalist pay-for-service system naturally regulates itself to provide more service to more people.

In a socialized care system, there is no positive feedback loop. Thus someone in government, makes a bill that says 'hospital x gets z amount of money'. And they have to make do with whatever amount of money they have.

So if twice as many people show up for care, as there is money, then the care must be rationed. It's not that there are these demonic 'bean counters' just arbitrarily finding ways to make vets suffer. There simply isn't unlimited funds to provide unlimited care. Someone has to make the decision that this will get funded, and this won't, because their simply isn't unlimited funds for everything you want.

This is why every single completely socialized system, inherently ends up with rationed care.

Sky was the limit on war spending, the bean counters were delegated to the back of the room. Veterans need specialized care that is just not readily available in the private sector and in this case we should feel just as compelled to whip out the checkbook and spend what it takes or just not start wars in the first place.

Again, then why do they have these problems in Europe with wait lists? And Canada? And on and on and on?

If that's the problem..... then explain all those other countries?

 

[occupied]

Because the MIC has trained the American public very well and paid their pet politicians VERY well. None of the warhawks give a thought to the human cost of war or it's aftermath. They are just chasing glory, the least rational reason to make war.

You know.... for a fact.... that not one person who supported military action, ever thought about the human cost? You know that.... as a fact you know this? Really? So you are like 'god' and can read minds and such?

Yes, I can read minds. If the people who continually urge for armed conflict were in the habit of considering the human cost of war we would not have them.

You are an arrogant lying idiot. I am not an LBJ fan, but LBJ thought we had to fight Vietnam, and yet everything that we know from that time, showed that our men dying in war disturbed him tremendously. You are a fool. Total complete idiot fool. Just shut up. You don't know jack squat.

If war deaths disturbed him that bad he would not have succumbed to pressure from the pentagon but then again LBJ knew who was really running the country.

 

[occupied]

1,617, 628, 573, 988

Cost of National Security Counting How Much the U.S. Spends Per Hour

These people asking for food are the problem?

Learn the difference between necessary and unnecessary war. We were told we should be at war with 2-4 other Countries since Obama took Presidency.

Why are we so eager to spend on war but not our veterans?

Um.... because defense is the fundamental, and primary reason the Federal government exists. Not "taking care of people". Able bodied people can take care of themselves. Learn a skill, and earn your keep.

Besides that, Government does a terrible job of "taking care of people". Saying you want government to take care of people, is equal to saying "I want government to kill people". Government health care for vets is your idea, not ours. Look at the results of your idea.

A fatal wait Veterans languish and die on a VA hospital s secret list - CNN.com

That's your doing, not ours.

All of our problems in the VA are a result of not adding capacity ahead of the large numbers of terribly wounded soldiers who lived instead of died as was formerly the case. In the war zone they did an amazing job of getting the wounded to medical care and saving their lives in spite of horrific injury because they invested heavily in med-evac personnel and equipment. Back home the urgency is not felt by the bean counters who literately nickel-and-dime our vets to death. The same people who lavish money on weapons systems are not so eager to take responsibility for the aftermath.

Yeah... but... if that is the only problem, then why do we see waiting lists in the UK...

NHS waiting list passes 3m for first time in six years Society The Guardian

And in Canada....

Wait lists A study in shared madness BC Medical Journal

And in Sweden...

Swedes buy insurance to skip long health queues - The Local

I've read the same in Norway, and Australia, and several other countries.

Do you really think it the 'bean counters' at the VA, must have infested every socialized system across the world?

See, here's the real problem. In a free-market Capitalist system, when more people go to the hospital, the hospital has more money. The hospital uses that money, to hire more doctors and staff, to provide service to more people. Thus the capitalist pay-for-service system naturally regulates itself to provide more service to more people.

In a socialized care system, there is no positive feedback loop. Thus someone in government, makes a bill that says 'hospital x gets z amount of money'. And they have to make do with whatever amount of money they have.

So if twice as many people show up for care, as there is money, then the care must be rationed. It's not that there are these demonic 'bean counters' just arbitrarily finding ways to make vets suffer. There simply isn't unlimited funds to provide unlimited care. Someone has to make the decision that this will get funded, and this won't, because their simply isn't unlimited funds for everything you want.

This is why every single completely socialized system, inherently ends up with rationed care.

Sky was the limit on war spending, the bean counters were delegated to the back of the room. Veterans need specialized care that is just not readily available in the private sector and in this case we should feel just as compelled to whip out the checkbook and spend what it takes or just not start wars in the first place.

Again, then why do they have these problems in Europe with wait lists? And Canada? And on and on and on?

If that's the problem..... then explain all those other countries?

What about any health system public or private? You get out what you put in. There is a world-wide shortage of healthcare that the private sector has no interest in fixing, if you want to turn this discussion into public vs. private care then I take it you want to just throw the veterans to the private sector who lowball managed care worse than the VA.

 

[FA_Q2]

1,617, 628, 573, 988

Cost of National Security Counting How Much the U.S. Spends Per Hour

These people asking for food are the problem?

Learn the difference between necessary and unnecessary war. We were told we should be at war with 2-4 other Countries since Obama took Presidency.

Why are we so eager to spend on war but not our veterans?

Um.... because defense is the fundamental, and primary reason the Federal government exists. Not "taking care of people". Able bodied people can take care of themselves. Learn a skill, and earn your keep.

Besides that, Government does a terrible job of "taking care of people". Saying you want government to take care of people, is equal to saying "I want government to kill people". Government health care for vets is your idea, not ours. Look at the results of your idea.

A fatal wait Veterans languish and die on a VA hospital s secret list - CNN.com

That's your doing, not ours.

All of our problems in the VA are a result of not adding capacity ahead of the large numbers of terribly wounded soldiers who lived instead of died as was formerly the case. In the war zone they did an amazing job of getting the wounded to medical care and saving their lives in spite of horrific injury because they invested heavily in med-evac personnel and equipment. Back home the urgency is not felt by the bean counters who literately nickel-and-dime our vets to death. The same people who lavish money on weapons systems are not so eager to take responsibility for the aftermath.

Yeah... but... if that is the only problem, then why do we see waiting lists in the UK...

NHS waiting list passes 3m for first time in six years Society The Guardian

And in Canada....

Wait lists A study in shared madness BC Medical Journal

And in Sweden...

Swedes buy insurance to skip long health queues - The Local

I've read the same in Norway, and Australia, and several other countries.

Do you really think it the 'bean counters' at the VA, must have infested every socialized system across the world?

See, here's the real problem. In a free-market Capitalist system, when more people go to the hospital, the hospital has more money. The hospital uses that money, to hire more doctors and staff, to provide service to more people. Thus the capitalist pay-for-service system naturally regulates itself to provide more service to more people.

In a socialized care system, there is no positive feedback loop. Thus someone in government, makes a bill that says 'hospital x gets z amount of money'. And they have to make do with whatever amount of money they have.

So if twice as many people show up for care, as there is money, then the care must be rationed. It's not that there are these demonic 'bean counters' just arbitrarily finding ways to make vets suffer. There simply isn't unlimited funds to provide unlimited care. Someone has to make the decision that this will get funded, and this won't, because their simply isn't unlimited funds for everything you want.

This is why every single completely socialized system, inherently ends up with rationed care.

Sky was the limit on war spending, the bean counters were delegated to the back of the room. Veterans need specialized care that is just not readily available in the private sector and in this case we should feel just as compelled to whip out the checkbook and spend what it takes or just not start wars in the first place.

Again, then why do they have these problems in Europe with wait lists? And Canada? And on and on and on?

If that's the problem..... then explain all those other countries?

You also need to factor in the fact that a service that is not directly paid for by the individual using it will also be overused. Another problem that socialized healthcare faces – there is no downside to using a doctor when you don’t really need to.

 

[Dont Taz Me Bro]

Um.... because defense is the fundamental, and primary reason the Federal government exists.

So that means they get a blank check?

 

[Andylusion]

Um.... because defense is the fundamental, and primary reason the Federal government exists. Not "taking care of people". Able bodied people can take care of themselves. Learn a skill, and earn your keep.

Besides that, Government does a terrible job of "taking care of people". Saying you want government to take care of people, is equal to saying "I want government to kill people". Government health care for vets is your idea, not ours. Look at the results of your idea.

A fatal wait Veterans languish and die on a VA hospital s secret list - CNN.com

That's your doing, not ours.

All of our problems in the VA are a result of not adding capacity ahead of the large numbers of terribly wounded soldiers who lived instead of died as was formerly the case. In the war zone they did an amazing job of getting the wounded to medical care and saving their lives in spite of horrific injury because they invested heavily in med-evac personnel and equipment. Back home the urgency is not felt by the bean counters who literately nickel-and-dime our vets to death. The same people who lavish money on weapons systems are not so eager to take responsibility for the aftermath.

Yeah... but... if that is the only problem, then why do we see waiting lists in the UK...

NHS waiting list passes 3m for first time in six years Society The Guardian

And in Canada....

Wait lists A study in shared madness BC Medical Journal

And in Sweden...

Swedes buy insurance to skip long health queues - The Local

I've read the same in Norway, and Australia, and several other countries.

Do you really think it the 'bean counters' at the VA, must have infested every socialized system across the world?

See, here's the real problem. In a free-market Capitalist system, when more people go to the hospital, the hospital has more money. The hospital uses that money, to hire more doctors and staff, to provide service to more people. Thus the capitalist pay-for-service system naturally regulates itself to provide more service to more people.

In a socialized care system, there is no positive feedback loop. Thus someone in government, makes a bill that says 'hospital x gets z amount of money'. And they have to make do with whatever amount of money they have.

So if twice as many people show up for care, as there is money, then the care must be rationed. It's not that there are these demonic 'bean counters' just arbitrarily finding ways to make vets suffer. There simply isn't unlimited funds to provide unlimited care. Someone has to make the decision that this will get funded, and this won't, because their simply isn't unlimited funds for everything you want.

This is why every single completely socialized system, inherently ends up with rationed care.

Sky was the limit on war spending, the bean counters were delegated to the back of the room. Veterans need specialized care that is just not readily available in the private sector and in this case we should feel just as compelled to whip out the checkbook and spend what it takes or just not start wars in the first place.

Again, then why do they have these problems in Europe with wait lists? And Canada? And on and on and on?

If that's the problem..... then explain all those other countries?

What about any health system public or private? You get out what you put in. There is a world-wide shortage of healthcare that the private sector has no interest in fixing, if you want to turn this discussion into public vs. private care then I take it you want to just throw the veterans to the private sector who lowball managed care worse than the VA.

Give me an example of this world-wide shortage of health care that the private sector has no interest in fixing?

I have no idea what you are talking about. Private care routinely provides excellent service.

 

[Andylusion]

Um.... because defense is the fundamental, and primary reason the Federal government exists.

So that means they get a blank check?

No. But between blowing it on wasteful government programs that screw up our country, and defense which is a fundamental duty, that's the reason we fund defense over endless bad government social programs.

 

[occupied]

All of our problems in the VA are a result of not adding capacity ahead of the large numbers of terribly wounded soldiers who lived instead of died as was formerly the case. In the war zone they did an amazing job of getting the wounded to medical care and saving their lives in spite of horrific injury because they invested heavily in med-evac personnel and equipment. Back home the urgency is not felt by the bean counters who literately nickel-and-dime our vets to death. The same people who lavish money on weapons systems are not so eager to take responsibility for the aftermath.

Yeah... but... if that is the only problem, then why do we see waiting lists in the UK...

NHS waiting list passes 3m for first time in six years Society The Guardian

And in Canada....

Wait lists A study in shared madness BC Medical Journal

And in Sweden...

Swedes buy insurance to skip long health queues - The Local

I've read the same in Norway, and Australia, and several other countries.

Do you really think it the 'bean counters' at the VA, must have infested every socialized system across the world?

See, here's the real problem. In a free-market Capitalist system, when more people go to the hospital, the hospital has more money. The hospital uses that money, to hire more doctors and staff, to provide service to more people. Thus the capitalist pay-for-service system naturally regulates itself to provide more service to more people.

In a socialized care system, there is no positive feedback loop. Thus someone in government, makes a bill that says 'hospital x gets z amount of money'. And they have to make do with whatever amount of money they have.

So if twice as many people show up for care, as there is money, then the care must be rationed. It's not that there are these demonic 'bean counters' just arbitrarily finding ways to make vets suffer. There simply isn't unlimited funds to provide unlimited care. Someone has to make the decision that this will get funded, and this won't, because their simply isn't unlimited funds for everything you want.

This is why every single completely socialized system, inherently ends up with rationed care.

Sky was the limit on war spending, the bean counters were delegated to the back of the room. Veterans need specialized care that is just not readily available in the private sector and in this case we should feel just as compelled to whip out the checkbook and spend what it takes or just not start wars in the first place.

Again, then why do they have these problems in Europe with wait lists? And Canada? And on and on and on?

If that's the problem..... then explain all those other countries?

What about any health system public or private? You get out what you put in. There is a world-wide shortage of healthcare that the private sector has no interest in fixing, if you want to turn this discussion into public vs. private care then I take it you want to just throw the veterans to the private sector who lowball managed care worse than the VA.

Give me an example of this world-wide shortage of health care that the private sector has no interest in fixing?

I have no idea what you are talking about. Private care routinely provides excellent service.

Private care didn't do jack shit to quell the recent Ebola outbreak, only nation states had the resources and the interest to do anything. We only had to do that because the region had a healthcare shortage as does much of the developing world who would not have any modern healthcare if it was not subsidized by the west or socialized locally.