Conservatism vs Authoritarianism: The GOP Sturm und Drang

[CrusaderFrank]

View attachment 443631​

What do violent Trump goons have in common with their fellow traveler neo-nazis, white supremacists, proud boys, q-anon, boogaloo, etc. - the failed insurrectionists against the United States who attacked the Capitol to prevent Congress from fulfilling its duty to certify the will of the People?

Stuart Stevens, a former Republican consultant thinks

the big divide in the GOP is between authoritarians and those who believe in democracy.

View attachment 443628​

"I think it's just a straight up red line," said Stevens. "This is so much greater than any differences over tax policy or trade policy. It's a fundamental belief in whether or not you want to continue the American experiment. A large portion of the Republican Party has decided they are for democracy if that means they win, and they're against it if it means they lose. Which is to say, you don't believe in democracy."

These splits are playing out not just on Capitol Hill, but among Republicans all over the country.

Republicans Wonder How, And If, They Can Pull The Party Back Together

President Trump leaves fault lines in the GOP after the Capitol insurrection and his second impeachment, on top of the party having lost the White House, House and Senate on his watch.

www.npr.org

When Cry Baby Sore Loser whines, with no credible evidence, that the 2020 presidential election was "fixed" and that he won it in a "Landslide!", no rational person can actually buy his lies. They're delusional. How could a POTUS who could never rise to majority approval from the American People during his one term to which he had been elected with 3 million fewer votes than his opponent suddenly, out of the reddest of blues, have "Landslide!" support?

The internal struggle of authoritarian Trumpery has already taken its toll on the Republican Party, but it continues to be waged:

Consider Arizona:

“The craziness from the state Republican Party … it’s pretty embarrassing,” said Kirk Adams, a former Republican state House speaker and former chief of staff to Ducey. “We have been fed a steady diet of conspiracy theories and stolen election rhetoric and, really, QAnon theories from the state Republican Party since before the election, but certainly after.”​

​

The adulation is an expression of GOP grassroots loyalty to Trump, but it’s also a portrait of a party that’s run aground in service to him. His defeat has triggered attempts to adopt an even harder pro-Trump line, raising questions about the party’s ability to compete in an increasingly diverse state that’s edging leftward.​

​

The fallout has been swift. Several thousand Arizona Republicans have abandoned the party since the U.S. Capitol riot that Trump helped to incite, with the majority of the defectors re-registering without a designated party, according to state elections officials. Business leaders are publicly recoiling from the GOP after party officials thrust Arizona into the center of Trump’s failed effort to overturn the election results, further dividing an already fractured party.​

​

“Let us be clear: we find the weeks of disinformation and outright lies to reverse a fair and free election from the head of the Arizona Republican Party and some elected officials to be reprehensible,” read a full-page ad in The Arizona Republic this week from Greater Phoenix Leadership, a group of CEOs. “The political party organization and these elected officials, which some of us have supported in the past, have again embarrassed Arizona on a national stage.”​

​

Trump blows up the Arizona GOP on his way out

“The craziness from the state Republican Party … it’s pretty embarrassing,” said a former top Republican official.

www.politico.com

​

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View attachment 443630​

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We're so authoritarian that we banish opponents from social media? We let CCP dems dump 15 million fake ballots in the last election? Let judges rule against us?

 

[Blackrook]

At its core conservatism is authoritarian – to be conservative is to be a reactionary.

Reactionaryism is the unwarranted fear of, and opposition to, positive, beneficial change; and the only way to oppose positive, beneficial change is to seek to compel conformity and punish dissent using the power of the state.

This explains the right’s hostility toward diversity, inclusion, and dissent, and it explains conservatives’ efforts to enhance the authority of the state at the expense of individual liberty to maintain Republican minority rule.

We see this manifest in the right’s agenda to undermine voting rights, its nativism, its support of measures seeking to disadvantage gay and transgender Americans, its contempt for the privacy rights of women, and the rise of racist white grievance politics intended to demonize and vilify immigrants and minorities.

“A large portion of the Republican Party has decided they are for democracy if that means they win, and they're against it if it means they lose. Which is to say, you don't believe in democracy." ibid

Precisely – and the right’s unwillingness to accept and support democracy, particularly when they lose, is the hallmark of authoritarianism.

Clayton, do you actually believe your own shit or are you just putting on a show?

 

[Andylusion]

How do you get slavery and big government from that?

If you have the idea that freedom is right, and big government is wrong, then Conservatism is the opposite of what you claim.

You said conservatives stand for big government, and repealing freedom, and then defined conservative as something that had nothing to do with either of your prior claims.

That said, all views have some element of believing in an incompatibility with grey areas.

If you don't believe that, name the group that openly support freedom of speech today, that isn't conservative?

Even Ben Shapiro has had left-wing people on his program, but if a left-wing person has Ben Shapiro on, they would be boycotted.

You don't see conservatives protesting guest speakers like cenk uygur. But you do see so-called 'liberals' protesting Ben Shapiro.

So saying that Conservatives are all black and white, and refuse to talk about grey areas, is contradicted by the evidence around us.

Now you are correct that Abrahamic faiths have a belief in truth. You know what other world views have a belief in truth? All of them. All of them do. There isn't a single "no truth" belief system in the world. Abrahamic or otherwise, all belief systems are based on the idea that they know something is true.

You’re daft. You continue to compare apoles and draft horses. THESE PEOPLE YOU MENTION ARE NOT CONSERVATIVES!!!! That’s why they allow Liberals on their shows, in their families, and in their country.

I have not suggested thst big government is fine. I believe in properly focused government; under which they have total control of certain things and no control of others. Nor have I advocated slavery, though I do.

Oh grow up.

You sound like a flaming Nazi. Not allowed to talk to anyone who has different views than you? Grow up.

 

[Anathema]

Patriotic Americans do not agree....

I do not concern myself with the opinions of fools or Liberals. America died 160 years ago. We simply refuse to accept that. We’ve been playing “Weekend at Bernie’s” with Uncle Sam since before he existed.

 

[Anathema]

You sound like a flaming Nazi. Not allowed to talk to anyone who has different views than you?

The Nazis had a lot of good ideas; they just took them too far.

 

[Andylusion]

You sound like a flaming Nazi. Not allowed to talk to anyone who has different views than you?

The Nazis had a lot of good ideas; they just took them too far.

That does not change the fact that saying we can't talk to people of different views, without some idiot declaring us traitors, is among the bad ideas.

 

[Anathema]

That does not change the fact that saying we can't talk to people of different views, without some idiot declaring us traitors, is among the bad ideas.

We will have to vehemently disagree on that. Social purity is necessary to ensure no contamination of morals and values.

 

[LAUGHatLEFTISTS]

View attachment 443631​

What do violent Trump goons have in common with their fellow traveler neo-nazis, white supremacists, proud boys, q-anon, boogaloo, etc. - the failed insurrectionists against the United States who attacked the Capitol to prevent Congress from fulfilling its duty to certify the will of the People?

Stuart Stevens, a former Republican consultant thinks

the big divide in the GOP is between authoritarians and those who believe in democracy.

View attachment 443628​

"I think it's just a straight up red line," said Stevens. "This is so much greater than any differences over tax policy or trade policy. It's a fundamental belief in whether or not you want to continue the American experiment. A large portion of the Republican Party has decided they are for democracy if that means they win, and they're against it if it means they lose. Which is to say, you don't believe in democracy."

These splits are playing out not just on Capitol Hill, but among Republicans all over the country.

Republicans Wonder How, And If, They Can Pull The Party Back Together

President Trump leaves fault lines in the GOP after the Capitol insurrection and his second impeachment, on top of the party having lost the White House, House and Senate on his watch.

www.npr.org

When Cry Baby Sore Loser whines, with no credible evidence, that the 2020 presidential election was "fixed" and that he won it in a "Landslide!", no rational person can actually buy his lies. They're delusional. How could a POTUS who could never rise to majority approval from the American People during his one term to which he had been elected with 3 million fewer votes than his opponent suddenly, out of the reddest of blues, have "Landslide!" support?

The internal struggle of authoritarian Trumpery has already taken its toll on the Republican Party, but it continues to be waged:

Consider Arizona:

“The craziness from the state Republican Party … it’s pretty embarrassing,” said Kirk Adams, a former Republican state House speaker and former chief of staff to Ducey. “We have been fed a steady diet of conspiracy theories and stolen election rhetoric and, really, QAnon theories from the state Republican Party since before the election, but certainly after.”​

​

The adulation is an expression of GOP grassroots loyalty to Trump, but it’s also a portrait of a party that’s run aground in service to him. His defeat has triggered attempts to adopt an even harder pro-Trump line, raising questions about the party’s ability to compete in an increasingly diverse state that’s edging leftward.​

​

The fallout has been swift. Several thousand Arizona Republicans have abandoned the party since the U.S. Capitol riot that Trump helped to incite, with the majority of the defectors re-registering without a designated party, according to state elections officials. Business leaders are publicly recoiling from the GOP after party officials thrust Arizona into the center of Trump’s failed effort to overturn the election results, further dividing an already fractured party.​

​

“Let us be clear: we find the weeks of disinformation and outright lies to reverse a fair and free election from the head of the Arizona Republican Party and some elected officials to be reprehensible,” read a full-page ad in The Arizona Republic this week from Greater Phoenix Leadership, a group of CEOs. “The political party organization and these elected officials, which some of us have supported in the past, have again embarrassed Arizona on a national stage.”​

​

Trump blows up the Arizona GOP on his way out

“The craziness from the state Republican Party … it’s pretty embarrassing,” said a former top Republican official.

www.politico.com

​

​

View attachment 443630​

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Take another bong hit drone.

 

[LAUGHatLEFTISTS]

Absolutely correct. The RINOs still have a belief that Democracy, or at least a Democratic Republic can be maintained or saved despite the constant and obvious proof to the contrary provided by the American public (especially the voters).

True Conservatives realize that any form of real Democracy is no longer capable of providing a proper Government or Society for the country. An Authoritarian society is required at least long enough to purge the American populace of its cancerous lesions, reaffirm true American values, and secure our borders/economy.

Thank for proving my point that conservatives deep down have contempt for our constitutional republic. Your post is honest if not deplorable. You have more in common with Putin then with Jefferson. Your post also proves the point that this country increasingly has more in common now with Brazil then Canada or England: All thanks to “Conservatives” like yourself who want to turn our nation into a banana Republic.

Elections like we just had are a staple of banana republics. Your just too partisan to see it.

 

[schmidlap]

Take another bong hit drone.

While many will remember Trump for his failure to provide leadership in dealing with the "very few with it and they're all getting better!" pandemic that he allowed to ravage the nation, for being the first president twice impeached, for inciting a deadly insurrection against the U.S. Government, for raising the national debt by $7.8 trillion, for losing GOP control of the House, the Senate, and the Executive in one term, for his copious, self-serving lies, always blaming someone else, etc., etc., etc., others will thrill at his building 40 miles of his big, beautiful 2,000 mile wall (even though he forced the U.S. taxpayer to cover Mexico's tab.)

Any super-spreader jamborees he puts on in the future might feature that modest erection. With that as his backdrop, he could dazzle his worshippers with the deftness of his wee hands.

"Wow! That's brilliant! Ain't he terrific! Do a turkey!"
​

 

[Andylusion]

That does not change the fact that saying we can't talk to people of different views, without some idiot declaring us traitors, is among the bad ideas.

We will have to vehemently disagree on that. Social purity is necessary to ensure no contamination of morals and values.

So you are actually advocating for a Theocracy?

Yeah, good luck with that. Not going to happen. Not unless you are a middle east country, with Muslims.

 

[Andylusion]

Take another bong hit drone.

While many will remember Trump for his failure to provide leadership in dealing with the "very few with it and they're all getting better!" pandemic that he allowed to ravage the nation, for being the first president twice impeached, for inciting a deadly insurrection against the U.S. Government, for raising the national debt by $7.8 trillion, for losing GOP control of the House, the Senate, and the Executive in one term, for his copious, self-serving lies, always blaming someone else, etc., etc., etc., others will thrill at his building 40 miles of his big, beautiful 2,000 mile wall (even though he forced the U.S. taxpayer to cover Mexico's tab.)

Any super-spreader jamborees he puts on in the future might feature that modest erection. With that as his backdrop, he could dazzle his worshippers with the deftness of his wee hands.

View attachment 443938

View attachment 443940
"Wow! That's brilliant! Ain't he terrific! Do a turkey!"
​

What exactly would you have expected Trump to do, that apparently no other nation on Earth did?

You realize that not a single nation, even those with far stricter and tighter lock down rules, has avoided covid-19. The only exception could possibly be an island nation, where they lock people up for weeks.

So what exactly do you expect Trump to do?

Even rabid mindless left-wingers admit Biden can't do anything.

Biden wants mask mandates nationwide, but he can't actually enforce them. Here's what he could do instead.

Throughout the presidential campaign, Joe Biden laid out several action items to combat COVID-19, including supporting face mask mandates nationwide.

www.usatoday.com

"A national mandate is not possible because public health powers belong to the states, not the federal government," said Lawrence Gostin, director of Georgetown University’s O'Neill Institute for National and Global Health Law. "The federal government couldn’t implement its own mask mandates, nor could it force the states to do it."​

So even corruption supporting evil left-wingers, admit openly that Biden can't force everyone to do what he wants. That's part of limiting the power of government, to prevent authoritarianism, that you guys spent years accusing Trump of without evidence.

So.... what did you think Trump could do, to magically stop Covid-19? And why didn't it stop in Europe?

 

[schmidlap]

What exactly would you have expected Trump to do, that apparently no other nation on Earth did?

You realize that not a single nation, even those with far stricter and tighter lock down rules, has avoided covid-19. The only exception could possibly be an island nation, where they lock people up for weeks.

Your premise, that the United States, with its unequaled scientific acumen, advanced state of medicine, pharmaceutical manufacturing potential, sophisticated distribution networks, and coordination resources, is no better than any other nation on earth and that its leadership was irrelevant is quite remarkable.

A successful response to Covid-19 turned out to depend on more than a country’s wealth, scientific prowess and history of public health successes. The U.S. enjoys all of these advantages but mounted one of the worst responses to the pandemic: 1 in every 990 Americans has died from Covid-19 since the pandemic began. Bad politics, quite simply, can trump good public health.​

​

Other developed countries that did well initially, such as Canada and some European nations, have faltered during the second or third surge of infections, because their governments and people grew tired of implementing effective strategies. In many Asian countries, it has long been common for people to wear masks when feeling ill, so they adopted masks early and widely.​

​

[Taiwan] quickly halted flights from much of China, quarantined travelers from other areas, stopped cruise ships from docking, implemented widespread testing and quadrupled production of face masks within a month.​

​

Taiwan also provided intensive support, including stipends, to patients with Covid-19 and people with whom they had come into contact, helping to increase adherence to public health recommendations. These early actions were pivotal in keeping Taiwan to under 800 cases all year, while avoiding lockdowns. The U.S. now has more cases and deaths every 5 minutes than Taiwan has had all year.​

​

Liberia, hard hit by the Ebola epidemic in 2014, was one of the first countries to start screening for Covid-19 at airports and to adopt other control measures, such as rapid testing, complete contact tracing and quarantine. Many other countries in Africa, including Senegal and Uganda, also used their experiences from past disease outbreaks to implement swift, expert, comprehensive responses.​

​

Initial models showed that community spread of Covid-19 in New Zealand could potentially overwhelm the health care system. The country began implementing its pandemic influenza plan in February, including preparing hospitals and instituting border control policies. Because New Zealand lacked sufficient testing and contact tracing capacity, national leadership implemented a countrywide lockdown in late March with the goal of eliminating Covid-19 entirely.​

​

By June, the pandemic was declared over in New Zealand, with the country reporting one of the lowest coronavirus-related mortality rates among all 37 OECD nations. Later cases were all from international travelers, who were kept in isolation for two weeks post-arrival, and not from community spread.​

​

Prime Minister Jacinda Arden has exemplified empathetic, clear communication, which greatly increased New Zealanders’ willingness to cooperate and was essential to the country’s success.​

​

When it became clear that people without symptoms could spread Covid-19, South Korea tested early and aggressively, conducting more than twice as many tests per capita as other countries in the pandemic’s first weeks. Along with other measures, including extensive and highly effective contact tracing and quarantine, this kept cases from increasing rapidly.​

​

Hong Kong has one of the highest population densities in the world, yet it kept cases low by establishing mandatory isolation protocols and quarantine centers for people with Covid-19 and those who came in close contact with them...​

​

Some countries excelled at protecting people economically and socially. In Denmark, the government has covered a portion of employees’ salaries in private companies to avoid large-scale layoffs. Notable mentions go to India, the European Union and Australia, which quickly provided income supplements to lower-income people using electronic cash transfers. Colombia went out of its way to protect vulnerable Venezuelan migrants, who weren’t eligible for cash transfers, by establishing shelters and food centers.​

​

A few countries have fought rumors and distrust by sharing information with the public widely and openly. Finland, helped by its high media literacy, was able to build on a 2014 initiative that educated people about how to counter false information. One Finnish project partners with social-media influencers to spread accurate information on digital platforms.​

​

The countries that performed best have learned from their mistakes and used data to continuously improve.​

South Africa has also excelled at clear communication, including strategic use of an alert-level system that empowers people to understand their risk and helps the government make transparent and balanced decisions about closures. Germany’s leaders have also been models of clarity and effective communication, with Chancellor Angela Merkel calling for citizens to exhibit “patience, discipline and solidarity”—three essential aspects of an effective pandemic response...​

Which Countries Have Responded Best to Covid-19?

The world should learn from the most successful strategies for testing, quarantine, public communication and economic support.

www.wsj.com

​

The United States did not rise to be the world's leader in confirmed cases and deaths from covid because that was its inevitable destiny, national leadership pathetically, pitifully impotent because the fates had so decreed. "We might as well just surrender!" is not a very American attitude.

The reality is that some nations instituted more effective policies than did others. Trump reacted with lies and ignorance.

It's "under control!", he brayed. "Everybody's getting better!" He pushed crackpot elixirs that capable public health experts had to warn against. Expressing contempt for sensible precautions such as mask-wearing in public and social distancing - responsible behavior easily observed - were mocked by his super-spreader pep rally jamborees.

Wringing your hands and moaning, "Trump and all of us are helpless!" is not a sensible response to a pandemic.

What can a new administration do after Trump has given up, ignored the rising death toll, consumed with irrationally lashing out in self-pity and spewing lies to trash democracy?

Obviously, the disaster is well-advanced, but giving medical expertise the lead rather than the guidance of a failed casino operator and faded reality-tv performer is a case of better late than never.


Americans have rejected Trump. Desperate attempts to make excuses for him are futile.

 

[Andylusion]

What exactly would you have expected Trump to do, that apparently no other nation on Earth did?

You realize that not a single nation, even those with far stricter and tighter lock down rules, has avoided covid-19. The only exception could possibly be an island nation, where they lock people up for weeks.

Your premise, that the United States, with its unequaled scientific acumen, advanced state of medicine, pharmaceutical manufacturing potential, sophisticated distribution networks, and coordination resources, is no better than any other nation on earth and that its leadership was irrelevant is quite remarkable.

A successful response to Covid-19 turned out to depend on more than a country’s wealth, scientific prowess and history of public health successes. The U.S. enjoys all of these advantages but mounted one of the worst responses to the pandemic: 1 in every 990 Americans has died from Covid-19 since the pandemic began. Bad politics, quite simply, can trump good public health.​

​

Other developed countries that did well initially, such as Canada and some European nations, have faltered during the second or third surge of infections, because their governments and people grew tired of implementing effective strategies. In many Asian countries, it has long been common for people to wear masks when feeling ill, so they adopted masks early and widely.​

​

[Taiwan] quickly halted flights from much of China, quarantined travelers from other areas, stopped cruise ships from docking, implemented widespread testing and quadrupled production of face masks within a month.​

​

Taiwan also provided intensive support, including stipends, to patients with Covid-19 and people with whom they had come into contact, helping to increase adherence to public health recommendations. These early actions were pivotal in keeping Taiwan to under 800 cases all year, while avoiding lockdowns. The U.S. now has more cases and deaths every 5 minutes than Taiwan has had all year.​

​

Liberia, hard hit by the Ebola epidemic in 2014, was one of the first countries to start screening for Covid-19 at airports and to adopt other control measures, such as rapid testing, complete contact tracing and quarantine. Many other countries in Africa, including Senegal and Uganda, also used their experiences from past disease outbreaks to implement swift, expert, comprehensive responses.​

​

Initial models showed that community spread of Covid-19 in New Zealand could potentially overwhelm the health care system. The country began implementing its pandemic influenza plan in February, including preparing hospitals and instituting border control policies. Because New Zealand lacked sufficient testing and contact tracing capacity, national leadership implemented a countrywide lockdown in late March with the goal of eliminating Covid-19 entirely.​

​

By June, the pandemic was declared over in New Zealand, with the country reporting one of the lowest coronavirus-related mortality rates among all 37 OECD nations. Later cases were all from international travelers, who were kept in isolation for two weeks post-arrival, and not from community spread.​

​

Prime Minister Jacinda Arden has exemplified empathetic, clear communication, which greatly increased New Zealanders’ willingness to cooperate and was essential to the country’s success.​

​

When it became clear that people without symptoms could spread Covid-19, South Korea tested early and aggressively, conducting more than twice as many tests per capita as other countries in the pandemic’s first weeks. Along with other measures, including extensive and highly effective contact tracing and quarantine, this kept cases from increasing rapidly.​

​

Hong Kong has one of the highest population densities in the world, yet it kept cases low by establishing mandatory isolation protocols and quarantine centers for people with Covid-19 and those who came in close contact with them...​

​

Some countries excelled at protecting people economically and socially. In Denmark, the government has covered a portion of employees’ salaries in private companies to avoid large-scale layoffs. Notable mentions go to India, the European Union and Australia, which quickly provided income supplements to lower-income people using electronic cash transfers. Colombia went out of its way to protect vulnerable Venezuelan migrants, who weren’t eligible for cash transfers, by establishing shelters and food centers.​

​

A few countries have fought rumors and distrust by sharing information with the public widely and openly. Finland, helped by its high media literacy, was able to build on a 2014 initiative that educated people about how to counter false information. One Finnish project partners with social-media influencers to spread accurate information on digital platforms.​

​

The countries that performed best have learned from their mistakes and used data to continuously improve.​

South Africa has also excelled at clear communication, including strategic use of an alert-level system that empowers people to understand their risk and helps the government make transparent and balanced decisions about closures. Germany’s leaders have also been models of clarity and effective communication, with Chancellor Angela Merkel calling for citizens to exhibit “patience, discipline and solidarity”—three essential aspects of an effective pandemic response...​

Which Countries Have Responded Best to Covid-19?

The world should learn from the most successful strategies for testing, quarantine, public communication and economic support.

www.wsj.com

​

The United States did not rise to be the world's leader in confirmed cases and deaths from covid because that was its inevitable destiny, national leadership pathetically, pitifully impotent because the fates had so decreed. "We might as well just surrender!" is not a very American attitude.

The reality is that some nations instituted more effective policies than did others. Trump reacted with lies and ignorance.

It's "under control!", he brayed. "Everybody's getting better!" He pushed crackpot elixirs that capable public health experts had to warn against. Expressing contempt for sensible precautions such as mask-wearing in public and social distancing - responsible behavior easily observed - were mocked by his super-spreader pep rally jamborees.

Wringing your hands and moaning, "Trump and all of us are helpless!" is not a sensible response to a pandemic.

What can a new administration do after Trump has given up, ignored the rising death toll, consumed with irrationally lashing out in self-pity and spewing lies to trash democracy?

Obviously, the disaster is well-advanced, but giving medical expertise the lead rather than the guidance of a failed casino operator and faded reality-tv performer is a case of better late than never.


Americans have rejected Trump. Desperate attempts to make excuses for him are futile.

So basically everything you posted was wrong.

[Taiwan] quickly halted flights from much of China, quarantined travelers from other areas, stopped cruise ships from docking, implemented widespread testing and quadrupled production of face masks within a month.

So did Trump.

Proclamation on Suspension of Entry as Immigrants and Nonimmigrants of Persons who Pose a Risk of Transmitting 2019 Novel Coronavirus | The White House

The United States has confirmed cases of individuals who have a severe acute respiratory illness caused by a novel (new) coronavirus ("2019-nCoV") ("the vi

www.whitehouse.gov

January 31st, Trump bans people entering the country that posed a Covid-19 risk.

Chinese banned from entering Taiwan - Taipei Times

Bringing Taiwan to the World and the World to Taiwan

www.taipeitimes.com

Taiwan does the same Feb 6th.

Quarantined cruise ship passengers: 'We're being told next to nothing'

Laura and Don Davis, two former passengers of a coronavirus-stricken ocean liner now quarantined on a California military base, have little to do to pass the time but watch TV, play cards and - they add half-jokingly - avoid arguments.

www.reuters.com

Remember how people were screaming because they were quarantined from the cruise ship? Are you really suggesting that the US should deny US citizens from getting into the country?

Funny how you people on the left, can't even build a wall to keep people that are not legally allowed in the country, but you want to keep US citizens out of their own country, by denying a cruise ship from docking.

And mask production, masks don't even help. Zero scientific evidence masks do anything. Zero. Not one person on here, or on any other forum I've been on, has been able to show one single peer reviewed scientific paper showing the benefits of mask wearing. Not one.

South Africa has also excelled

'

Try again?

Hong Kong has one of the highest population densities in the world, yet it kept cases low by establishing mandatory isolation protocols and quarantine centers

Yeah, remember how left-wingers were screaming that Trump was a Nazi and dictator, and now you want him to force people into mandatory isolation and quarantine centers?

Yeah, this is a country based on freedom, not slavery to the state. You don't get to force people into mandatory anything, in a freedom based society.

And if you look at the numbers, all those lock downs and denying people freedom, still didn't stop Covid-19 did it?

Try again?

Which country stopped Covid-19? Other than islands, where you can lock everyone out, no country has. None.

 

[schmidlap]

What exactly would you have expected Trump to do, that apparently no other nation on Earth did?...

And if you look at the numbers, all those lock downs and denying people freedom, still didn't stop Covid-19 did it?

No one has fantasized about "stopping" the pandemic. The U.S. - #1 on earth in confirmed cases and deaths - did a pathetic job of keeping the toll down.

Your fake insistence, after his dismal failure has become tragically apparent, that Trump was impotent against covid-19. was not what he was saying at the time.

Far from it. He was boasting of his success, and lying about the ominous prospects for the pandemic in the U.S.

Trump's ignorance, contempt for scientific expertise, and refusal to advocate for common sense precautions is confirmed by the historical record:

Director of the CDC's National Center for Immunization and Respiratory Diseases
“It’s not a question of if this will happen but when this will happen
and how many people in this country will have severe illnesses.
Disruption to everyday life might be severe. The data over the last
week and spread in other countries has certainly raised our level of
concern, and raised our level of expectation that
we are going to have community spread here..."
BREITBART, FEBRUARY 25, 2020

VS

“We have it totally under control.
It’s one person coming in from China.
It’s going to be just fine.”
JANUARY 22, 2020

“China has been working very hard to contain the Coronavirus.
The United States greatly appreciates their efforts and transparency.
It will all work out well. In particular, on behalf of the American People,
I want to thank President Xi!”
JANUARY 25, 2020

“Looks like by April, you know in theory when it gets a little warmer,
it miraculously goes away.”
FEBRUARY 5, 2020

“The Coronavirus is very much under control in the USA…
Stock Market starting to look very good to me!”
FEBRUARY 24, 2020

“You may ask about the coronavirus, which is very well under control in our country.
We have very few people with it, and the people that have it are … getting better.
They’re all getting better!"
February 25, 2020​

The truth has been, tragically exposed:

As the failed casino operator and faded reality-tv performer wallows in self-pity because he has been rejected by the American electorate, the price the People are paying continues to mount as he persists in ignoring it:

CONFIRMED CASES: 24,117,759 ///// DEATHS: 401,256​

- As for your parroting the fake Trump line regarding a ban on travel from China, the truth is that thousands of Chinese and foreign nationals from Hong Kong and Macau were allowed were allowed to come streaming into the U.S. in the three months following. Thousands of Americans and foreigners still arrived in the U.S. on direct flights from China, and Chinese via connecting flights after the token restrictions were imposed.

Trump's repeated lie that his prohibiting Chinese nationals from entering the U.S. saves "thousands or millions of lives" contradict your pretense that he was powerless to prevent the spread of the pandemic.

Covid Timeline: What Did Trump Say and When?

Trump's Covid-19 Timeline January 22: “We have it totally under control. It’s one person coming in from China. It’s going to be just fine.” January 24: Trump

www.thestreet.com

‘It’s going to disappear’: Trump’s changing tone on coronavirus

For weeks, the president downplayed the threat of a global pandemic even as others warned otherwise.

www.politico.com

 

[Andylusion]

What exactly would you have expected Trump to do, that apparently no other nation on Earth did?...

And if you look at the numbers, all those lock downs and denying people freedom, still didn't stop Covid-19 did it?

No one has fantasized about "stopping" the pandemic. The U.S. - #1 on earth in confirmed cases and deaths - did a pathetic job of keeping the toll down.

Your fake insistence, after his dismal failure has become tragically apparent, that Trump was impotent against covid-19. was not what he was saying at the time.

Far from it. He was boasting of his success, and lying about the ominous prospects for the pandemic in the U.S.

Trump's ignorance, contempt for scientific expertise, and refusal to advocate for common sense precautions is confirmed by the historical record:

View attachment 444620
Director of the CDC's National Center for Immunization and Respiratory Diseases
“It’s not a question of if this will happen but when this will happen
and how many people in this country will have severe illnesses.
Disruption to everyday life might be severe. The data over the last
week and spread in other countries has certainly raised our level of
concern, and raised our level of expectation that
we are going to have community spread here..."
BREITBART, FEBRUARY 25, 2020

VS

View attachment 444631
“We have it totally under control.
It’s one person coming in from China.
It’s going to be just fine.”
JANUARY 22, 2020

View attachment 444632
“China has been working very hard to contain the Coronavirus.
The United States greatly appreciates their efforts and transparency.
It will all work out well. In particular, on behalf of the American People,
I want to thank President Xi!”
JANUARY 25, 2020

View attachment 444633
“Looks like by April, you know in theory when it gets a little warmer,
it miraculously goes away.”
FEBRUARY 5, 2020

View attachment 444634
“The Coronavirus is very much under control in the USA…
Stock Market starting to look very good to me!”
FEBRUARY 24, 2020

View attachment 444639
“You may ask about the coronavirus, which is very well under control in our country.
We have very few people with it, and the people that have it are … getting better.
They’re all getting better!"
February 25, 2020​

The truth has been, tragically exposed:

As the failed casino operator and faded reality-tv performer wallows in self-pity because he has been rejected by the American electorate, the price the People are paying continues to mount as he persists in ignoring it:

CONFIRMED CASES: 24,117,759 ///// DEATHS: 401,256​

- As for your parroting the fake Trump line regarding a ban on travel from China, the truth is that thousands of Chinese and foreign nationals from Hong Kong and Macau were allowed were allowed to come streaming into the U.S. in the three months following. Thousands of Americans and foreigners still arrived in the U.S. on direct flights from China, and Chinese via connecting flights after the token restrictions were imposed.

Trump's repeated lie that his prohibiting Chinese nationals from entering the U.S. saves "thousands or millions of lives" contradict your pretense that he was powerless to prevent the spread of the pandemic.

Covid Timeline: What Did Trump Say and When?

Trump's Covid-19 Timeline January 22: “We have it totally under control. It’s one person coming in from China. It’s going to be just fine.” January 24: Trump

www.thestreet.com

‘It’s going to disappear’: Trump’s changing tone on coronavirus

For weeks, the president downplayed the threat of a global pandemic even as others warned otherwise.

www.politico.com

No one has fantasized about "stopping" the pandemic. The U.S. - #1 on earth in confirmed cases and deaths - did a pathetic job of keeping the toll down.

That's kind of the point. We did all that stuff, and it didn't stop anything.

We had a lock down. We had shut downs. We closed schools. Closed business, closed non-essential things, shut down entertainment, all this stuff... and what do you know, it didn't work.

That's problem. We did everything you talked about, and it didn't work. You are acting like because it didn't work, it we must not have done it. No, we did do it, and it still didn't work.

And why are we #1? Well we know why.

Again, try looking at the facts, not your opinion.

When they looked at the numbers, the number of people who died of other causes, DECREASED, but as much as those who died from those causes with covid, by almost the exact same amount.

Now why would that happen? If you have a 1,000 die of heart disease before covid, and after covid you have 600 die of heart diseases, and 400 die of Covid and Heart Disease.... why would that happen?

Why did the number of deaths remain almost exactly the same, just now some are due to Covid? Because the government was paying out more money for Covid deaths. So hospitals have every incentive to call any given death, a Covid death, even if Covid had nothing to do with the death at all.

Further, even with the clearly documented inflated numbers, you are just wrong. We are not number one in Covid deaths. Sorry. Again, facts contradict your opinion.

The US fatality rate is lower than that of Germany, Spain, Sweden, Brazil, Italy, South Korea, and the world average.

See this is why I know Covid-19 isn't even all that deadly, because you people can't even spout the facts. You talk about Trump not knowing science, and yet you blather on non-stop with completely false unscientific statements. You don't know anything at all about what you are talking about, and yet here you are being arrogant about your endless ignorance.

 

[schmidlap]

We did all that stuff, and it didn't stop anything.

If you need to insist that Trump was impotent despite his documented statements, and that all efforts to limit the spread of the pandemic were futile, that's what you must do. We know otherwise, and don't think that the data won't continue to be objectively analyzed.

One Year, 400,000 Coronavirus Deaths: How the U.S. Guaranteed Its Own Failure (Published 2021)

After the White House declined to pursue a unified national strategy, governors faced off against lobbyists, health experts and a restless public consumed by misinformation.

www.nytimes.com

Most in public health recognize that the failure to provide competent national leadership contributed to the U.S. becoming #1 in confirmed cases and deaths.

 

[Andylusion]

We did all that stuff, and it didn't stop anything.

If you need to insist that Trump was impotent despite his documented statements, and that all efforts to limit the spread of the pandemic were futile, that's what you must do. We know otherwise, and don't think that the data won't continue to be objectively analyzed.

One Year, 400,000 Coronavirus Deaths: How the U.S. Guaranteed Its Own Failure (Published 2021)

After the White House declined to pursue a unified national strategy, governors faced off against lobbyists, health experts and a restless public consumed by misinformation.

www.nytimes.com

Most in public health recognize that the failure to provide competent national leadership contributed to the U.S. becoming #1 in confirmed cases and deaths.

So I presented several links, and scientific facts regarding your statements, and now I have noticed you are repeating your prior claims, without even being able to comment on the facts I posted.

Can I assume this is proof you can't argument with the science, and so have just resorted to repeating false claims?

Does that mean you are done here?