Conservatism vs Authoritarianism: The GOP Sturm und Drang

schmidlap

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What do violent Trump goons have in common with their fellow traveler neo-nazis, white supremacists, proud boys, q-anon, boogaloo, etc. - the failed insurrectionists against the United States who attacked the Capitol to prevent Congress from fulfilling its duty to certify the will of the People?

Stuart Stevens, a former Republican consultant thinks

the big divide in the GOP is between authoritarians and those who believe in democracy.

Screen Shot 2021-01-16 at 9.17.16 AM.png

"I think it's just a straight up red line," said Stevens.
"This is so much greater than any differences over tax policy or trade policy. It's a fundamental belief in whether or not you want to continue the American experiment. A large portion of the Republican Party has decided they are for democracy if that means they win, and they're against it if it means they lose. Which is to say, you don't believe in democracy."

These splits are playing out not just on Capitol Hill, but among Republicans all over the country.


When Cry Baby Sore Loser whines, with no credible evidence, that the 2020 presidential election was "fixed" and that he won it in a "Landslide!", no rational person can actually buy his lies. They're delusional. How could a POTUS who could never rise to majority approval from the American People during his one term to which he had been elected with 3 million fewer votes than his opponent suddenly, out of the reddest of blues, have "Landslide!" support?

The internal struggle of authoritarian Trumpery has already taken its toll on the Republican Party, but it continues to be waged:

Consider Arizona:


“The craziness from the state Republican Party … it’s pretty embarrassing,” said Kirk Adams, a former Republican state House speaker and former chief of staff to Ducey. “We have been fed a steady diet of conspiracy theories and stolen election rhetoric and, really, QAnon theories from the state Republican Party since before the election, but certainly after.”
The adulation is an expression of GOP grassroots loyalty to Trump, but it’s also a portrait of a party that’s run aground in service to him. His defeat has triggered attempts to adopt an even harder pro-Trump line, raising questions about the party’s ability to compete in an increasingly diverse state that’s edging leftward.
The fallout has been swift. Several thousand Arizona Republicans have abandoned the party since the U.S. Capitol riot that Trump helped to incite, with the majority of the defectors re-registering without a designated party, according to state elections officials. Business leaders are publicly recoiling from the GOP after party officials thrust Arizona into the center of Trump’s failed effort to overturn the election results, further dividing an already fractured party.
“Let us be clear: we find the weeks of disinformation and outright lies to reverse a fair and free election from the head of the Arizona Republican Party and some elected officials to be reprehensible,” read a full-page ad in The Arizona Republic this week from Greater Phoenix Leadership, a group of CEOs. “The political party organization and these elected officials, which some of us have supported in the past, have again embarrassed Arizona on a national stage.”
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Anathema

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Absolutely correct. The RINOs still have a belief that Democracy, or at least a Democratic Republic can be maintained or saved despite the constant and obvious proof to the contrary provided by the American public (especially the voters).

True Conservatives realize that any form of real Democracy is no longer capable of providing a proper Government or Society for the country. An Authoritarian society is required at least long enough to purge the American populace of its cancerous lesions, reaffirm true American values, and secure our borders/economy.
 

toobfreak

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Conservatism vs Authoritarianism: The GOP Sturm und Drang


DUDE, first of all, how can you comment on something you don't know the first thing about: conservatism. Your attempts to equate a party founded in liberty, freedom, self-actualization, personal responsibility and limited government of our Founders is . . . .

LAUGHABLE.

ITMT, your discussion of authoritarianism and totalitarianism-- -- -- LOOK IN THE MIRROR: You are describing the Biden/Pelosi/Harris Democrat Party.
 
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j-mac

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While your fantasy of a Republican party eating itself, I think is pure folly, we in both parties have to come to the realization that because of the divide in the country today, the fringes of both sides feel emboldened to come into the open...The Republican party I can see migrating back toward establishment precepts, and policies, while the Democrats continue to have their hands full with the progressive wing dragging them further and further to the left, where at some point America will reject...
 

toobfreak

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An Authoritarian society is required at least long enough to purge the American populace of its cancerous lesions, reaffirm true American values, and secure our borders/economy.

FUNNY. Last year, people like you were accusing Trump of doing THAT VERY THING, but rather than DEFEND IT, then, you were calling him a dictator and a tyranny for even thinking it. Now it is a sacred cause because YOUR party is proposing it.

My O My how you tards flip flop and contradict yourselves!

I bet the British government (you know, the people you are constantly telling us we need to be more like?) saw the American separatist colonialists just as you now see republicans, conservatives, election-doubters and "Trump Supporters."

THERE WAS AN EASY SOLUTION which you guys passed on: Simply testing Rudy and Powell's evidence to see if it held water or really was "baseless" to AFFIRM the integrity of our election.

YOU PASSED. Now you have a war on your hands that YOU created.
 

j-mac

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Absolutely correct. The RINOs still have a belief that Democracy, or at least a Democratic Republic can be maintained or saved despite the constant and obvious proof to the contrary provided by the American public (especially the voters).

True Conservatives realize that any form of real Democracy is no longer capable of providing a proper Government or Society for the country. An Authoritarian society is required at least long enough to purge the American populace of its cancerous lesions, reaffirm true American values, and secure our borders/economy.
And what do you know of "True Conservatism"??? I would ponder little to nothing, and what you do know is skewed because it was taught to you through an opposition lens....
 

Anathema

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FUNNY. Last year, people like you were accusing Trump of doing THAT VERY THING, but rather than DEFEND IT, then, you were calling him a dictator and a tyranny for even thinking it. Now it is a sacred cause because YOUR party is proposing it...

YOU PASSED. Now you have a war on your hands that YOU created.
I’m a Conservative, dumbass. I voted for Trump TWICE. He didn’t go far enough towards Authoritarian Government for my liking. Again, I’m an Ultra-Conservative Authoritarian, not a Liberal or Democrat.
 

toobfreak

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FUNNY. Last year, people like you were accusing Trump of doing THAT VERY THING, but rather than DEFEND IT, then, you were calling him a dictator and a tyranny for even thinking it. Now it is a sacred cause because YOUR party is proposing it...

YOU PASSED. Now you have a war on your hands that YOU created.
I’m a Conservative, dumbass. I voted for Trump TWICE. He didn’t go far enough towards Authoritarian Government for my liking. Again, I’m an Ultra-Conservative Authoritarian, not a Liberal or Democrat.

My mistake. I read your post wrong. You weren't very clear. Please take my post and substitute the word "their" for the word "your." My point remains valid. A year ago the left was accusing Trump of the very things they were doing now and absolutely CONDEMNING IT. Now they are praising the move (besides actually doing it).
 

C_Clayton_Jones

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In a Republic, actually
At its core conservatism is authoritarian – to be conservative is to be a reactionary.

Reactionaryism is the unwarranted fear of, and opposition to, positive, beneficial change; and the only way to oppose positive, beneficial change is to seek to compel conformity and punish dissent using the power of the state.

This explains the right’s hostility toward diversity, inclusion, and dissent, and it explains conservatives’ efforts to enhance the authority of the state at the expense of individual liberty to maintain Republican minority rule.

We see this manifest in the right’s agenda to undermine voting rights, its nativism, its support of measures seeking to disadvantage gay and transgender Americans, its contempt for the privacy rights of women, and the rise of racist white grievance politics intended to demonize and vilify immigrants and minorities.

“A large portion of the Republican Party has decided they are for democracy if that means they win, and they're against it if it means they lose. Which is to say, you don't believe in democracy." ibid

Precisely – and the right’s unwillingness to accept and support democracy, particularly when they lose, is the hallmark of authoritarianism.
 

Anathema

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My point remains valid. A year ago the left was accusing Trump of the very things they were doing now and absolutely CONDEMNING IT. Now they are praising the move (besides actually doing it).
They’re all Moderate/Centrist scum just with different labels. That’s why we need a truly Conservative Authoritarian government and society to straighten it all out.
 

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Yes., there is a huge divide between republican who are white supremacists and those who want to retain the plan of the founders to keep the federal government small.

There is an equally huge divide between democrats who are part of the wealthy elite oligarchy, and those who want to progressively fix when government has failed to support individual liberties.

So what I am claiming is that neither party means anything any more other than a group affiliation.
Both parties have totally lost any original meaning and are equally corrupt and bad.
Both parties lie, manipulate, and violate rights on a wholesale basis.

So the reality is that both sides should be doing things like "occupying congress" until congress stops violating the law, with crimes like the War on Drugs, illegal foreign wars, 3 strikes laws, federal gun control, failing to regulate banks like repealing Glass-Steagall, no public health care, etc.
 
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schmidlap

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The losers will mewl, but the GOP is an outhouse divided.

‘Hell, Yes,’ Republicans Are Headed for a Bitter Internal Showdown
As Trump prepares to leave office with his party in disarray, Republican leaders including Senator Mitch McConnell are maneuvering to thwart his grip on the G.O.P. in future elections, while forces aligned with Mr. Trump are looking to punish Republican lawmakers and governors who have broken with him...​
Trump's lickspittles slavishly following their Cry Baby Sore Loser's lead in viciously turning on "Throttlebottom" Pence underscores the internal party rancor. The RINOs of Trumpery are hellbent on authoritarianism being the party litmus test, and will savage any staunch conservative who respects his oath of office:

Maryland Delegate Daniel L. Cox (R-Frederick), a fanatical Trumper who organized buses to the #stopthesteal rally, tweeted “Mike Pence is a traitor!” as rioters stormed the Capitol.

Screen Shot 2021-01-16 at 10.31.46 AM.png
 

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Rigby5

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At its core conservatism is authoritarian – to be conservative is to be a reactionary.

Reactionaryism is the unwarranted fear of, and opposition to, positive, beneficial change; and the only way to oppose positive, beneficial change is to seek to compel conformity and punish dissent using the power of the state.

This explains the right’s hostility toward diversity, inclusion, and dissent, and it explains conservatives’ efforts to enhance the authority of the state at the expense of individual liberty to maintain Republican minority rule.

We see this manifest in the right’s agenda to undermine voting rights, its nativism, its support of measures seeking to disadvantage gay and transgender Americans, its contempt for the privacy rights of women, and the rise of racist white grievance politics intended to demonize and vilify immigrants and minorities.

“A large portion of the Republican Party has decided they are for democracy if that means they win, and they're against it if it means they lose. Which is to say, you don't believe in democracy." ibid

Precisely – and the right’s unwillingness to accept and support democracy, particularly when they lose, is the hallmark of authoritarianism.
That is silly.
I happen to be an extreme leftist, progressive, liberal, but there is nothing wrong with reactionaries.
The system the founders came up with was designed to prevent abusive government. The federal government is ALWAYS the most abusive, distant, hard to influence by the masses, most controlled by the wealthy elite, etc. So conservatives are CORRECT to limit the federal government, to keep as much local as possible, and to change as little as possible.

Current democrats are not liberals.
They support illegal foreign wars like the invasion of Iraq, they disenfranchise Blacks and other voters with felony convictions using the illegal war on drugs, they support judges not setting sentences with 3 strikes laws, they want a federal monopoly on weapons with illegal federal gun control, they do not even support public health care, etc.

Progressive liberals can't be democrats any more.
Both parties now are for the wealthy elite only.
 

Rigby5

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My point remains valid. A year ago the left was accusing Trump of the very things they were doing now and absolutely CONDEMNING IT. Now they are praising the move (besides actually doing it).
They’re all Moderate/Centrist scum just with different labels. That’s why we need a truly Conservative Authoritarian government and society to straighten it all out.
Authoritarian means a small elite forces its will on everyone else.
How is that ever going to not be totally corrupt and totally the opposite of conservative values of keeping government small, weak, local, and democratic?
 

Rigby5

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One is either a partisan hack and pretend one party is better than another, or you are an honest person and admit both parties have been taken over and there really is no real conflict between the people both parties claim to represent.
 
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schmidlap

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At its core conservatism is authoritarian – to be conservative is to be a reactionary.

Reactionaryism is the unwarranted fear of, and opposition to, positive, beneficial change; and the only way to oppose positive, beneficial change is to seek to compel conformity and punish dissent using the power of the state.

This explains the right’s hostility toward diversity, inclusion, and dissent, and it explains conservatives’ efforts to enhance the authority of the state at the expense of individual liberty to maintain Republican minority rule.

We see this manifest in the right’s agenda to undermine voting rights, its nativism, its support of measures seeking to disadvantage gay and transgender Americans, its contempt for the privacy rights of women, and the rise of racist white grievance politics intended to demonize and vilify immigrants and minorities.

“A large portion of the Republican Party has decided they are for democracy if that means they win, and they're against it if it means they lose. Which is to say, you don't believe in democracy." ibid

Precisely – and the right’s unwillingness to accept and support democracy, particularly when they lose, is the hallmark of authoritarianism.
When an affinity for authoritarianism finds expression in a cult of personality (as it is wont to do), it ceases to be conservatism. It becomes mindless worship rather than an ideologically-coherent philosophy. Thus, the current enmity and struggle for control of the GOP.
 

Anathema

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Authoritarian means a small elite forces its will on everyone else.
How is that ever going to not be totally corrupt and totally the opposite of conservative values of keeping government small, weak, local, and democratic?
Conservatism in its true form is interested only in Right and Wring, nothing more. Not small government, not limited government, not Freedom. Right and seeing; nothing else.
 

22lcidw

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The losers will mewl, but the GOP is an outhouse divided.

‘Hell, Yes,’ Republicans Are Headed for a Bitter Internal Showdown
As Trump prepares to leave office with his party in disarray, Republican leaders including Senator Mitch McConnell are maneuvering to thwart his grip on the G.O.P. in future elections, while forces aligned with Mr. Trump are looking to punish Republican lawmakers and governors who have broken with him...​
Trump's lickspittles slavishly following their Cry Baby Sore Loser's lead in viciously turning on "Throttlebottom" Pence underscores the internal party rancor. The RINOs of Trumpery are hellbent on authoritarianism being the party litmus test, and will savage any staunch conservative who respects his oath of office:

Maryland Delegate Daniel L. Cox (R-Frederick), a fanatical Trumper who organized buses to the #stopthesteal rally, tweeted “Mike Pence is a traitor!” as rioters stormed the Capitol.

With freedom and liberty comes personal responsibilities. We have had propaganda tell us that we can do what we want in every thing possible and that is freedom. That is not. We need rules as foundation to try to to emulate. For freedom is needs to be voluntarily for the good of the general population also.
 

Andylusion

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What do violent Trump goons have in common with their fellow traveler neo-nazis, white supremacists, proud boys, q-anon, boogaloo, etc. - the failed insurrectionists against the United States who attacked the Capitol to prevent Congress from fulfilling its duty to certify the will of the People?

Stuart Stevens, a former Republican consultant thinks

the big divide in the GOP is between authoritarians and those who believe in democracy.

View attachment 443628

"I think it's just a straight up red line," said Stevens. "This is so much greater than any differences over tax policy or trade policy. It's a fundamental belief in whether or not you want to continue the American experiment. A large portion of the Republican Party has decided they are for democracy if that means they win, and they're against it if it means they lose. Which is to say, you don't believe in democracy."

These splits are playing out not just on Capitol Hill, but among Republicans all over the country.


When Cry Baby Sore Loser whines, with no credible evidence, that the 2020 presidential election was "fixed" and that he won it in a "Landslide!", no rational person can actually buy his lies. They're delusional. How could a POTUS who could never rise to majority approval from the American People during his one term to which he had been elected with 3 million fewer votes than his opponent suddenly, out of the reddest of blues, have "Landslide!" support?

The internal struggle of authoritarian Trumpery has already taken its toll on the Republican Party, but it continues to be waged:

Consider Arizona:


“The craziness from the state Republican Party … it’s pretty embarrassing,” said Kirk Adams, a former Republican state House speaker and former chief of staff to Ducey. “We have been fed a steady diet of conspiracy theories and stolen election rhetoric and, really, QAnon theories from the state Republican Party since before the election, but certainly after.”
The adulation is an expression of GOP grassroots loyalty to Trump, but it’s also a portrait of a party that’s run aground in service to him. His defeat has triggered attempts to adopt an even harder pro-Trump line, raising questions about the party’s ability to compete in an increasingly diverse state that’s edging leftward.
The fallout has been swift. Several thousand Arizona Republicans have abandoned the party since the U.S. Capitol riot that Trump helped to incite, with the majority of the defectors re-registering without a designated party, according to state elections officials. Business leaders are publicly recoiling from the GOP after party officials thrust Arizona into the center of Trump’s failed effort to overturn the election results, further dividing an already fractured party.
“Let us be clear: we find the weeks of disinformation and outright lies to reverse a fair and free election from the head of the Arizona Republican Party and some elected officials to be reprehensible,” read a full-page ad in The Arizona Republic this week from Greater Phoenix Leadership, a group of CEOs. “The political party organization and these elected officials, which some of us have supported in the past, have again embarrassed Arizona on a national stage.”

How do you explain the left-wing that had Chop Chaz? The people who said they would burn the system down if they don't get what they want?


Or the left-wingers that were attacking a Federal Court building?

Or the left-wingers that were tearing down monuments and memorials around the country, that represent the history of our Democracy?

Why is it that people on the left, consistently accuse others of doing what they themselves have been openly engaging in for years?
 

Andylusion

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Authoritarian means a small elite forces its will on everyone else.
How is that ever going to not be totally corrupt and totally the opposite of conservative values of keeping government small, weak, local, and democratic?
Conservatism in its true form is interested only in Right and Wring, nothing more. Not small government, not limited government, not Freedom. Right and seeing; nothing else.
Sure, name a conservative that supports large government, and doesn't support Freedom?

Ben Shapiro? Rush Limbaugh? Thomas Sowell? Milton Friedman?

Can you list even one?
 

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