Congress proposes 20,000% tax on cigars

[BaronVonBigmeat]

Eric Newman punches the numbers on his calculator and gapes at the results one more time.

It's no mathematical error: The federal government has proposed raising taxes on premium cigars, the kind Newman's family has been rolling for decades in Ybor City, by as much as 20,000 percent.

As part of an increase in tobacco taxes designed to pay for children's health insurance, the nickel-per-cigar tax that has ruled the industry could rise to as much as $10 per cigar.

"I'm not sure in the history of man, since our forefathers founded the country in 1776, that there's ever been a tax increase of 20,000 percent," said Newman, who runs the Tampa business founded by grandfather Julius Caesar Newman. "They had the Boston Tea Party for less than this."

...

Here's the source of the controversy: The Democrat controlled Congress has sought an extra $35-billion to $50-billion for the state children's health insurance program. The program distributes payments to the states to help buy coverage for kids not poor enough for Medicaid.

Cigarettes, which accounted for more than 95 percent of tobacco tax collections last year, are the main focus of the bill. Federal taxes on a pack would jump from 39 cents to $1.

But the legislation has dragged cigars along for the ride. The industry operates under a 4.8 cents-per-cigar tax cap.

Under the proposed bill, taxes on "large cigars," a category that includes all but the tiny cigars sold in 20 packs like cigarettes, would rise to 53 percent.

A U.S. Senate version of the bill under consideration today in the Finance Committee sets the maximum tax per cigar at $10.

http://www.sptimes.com/2007/07/17/Business/Cigarmakers_in_a_pani.shtml

 

[SpidermanTuba]

"I'm not sure in the history of man, since our forefathers founded the country in 1776, that there's ever been a tax increase of 20,000 percent,"

This guy has trouble with basic math.

Any time Congress taxes something that hasn't been taxed before, the percentage increase isn't only greater than 20,000, its INFINITE.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

"I'm not sure in the history of man, since our forefathers founded the country in 1776, that there's ever been a tax increase of 20,000 percent,"

This guy has trouble with basic math.

Any time Congress taxes something that hasn't been taxed before, the percentage increase isn't only greater than 20,000, its INFINITE.

You didn't do well in math did you?

Lets go slow , just for you.... if something is not taxed that is zero percent, If you then tax it 5 percent that is a 5 percent increase.....

 

[SpidermanTuba]

You didn't do well in math did you?

Lets go slow , just for you.... if something is not taxed that is zero percent, If you then tax it 5 percent that is a 5 percent increase.....

LOL! That's hilarious! Go back and read the first post. If you can't figure out why you just made yourself look like an idiot, get back to me.

 

[Bern80]

LOL! That's hilarious! Go back and read the first post. If you can't figure out why you just made yourself look like an idiot, get back to me.

Sorry Spider I'm afraid it is you that is not the math genius. Tax is a percent of the item being purched itself. Meaning if an item itself is $100 and now a tax is put on it say of $10., that isn't an infinite increase that is an increase of 10%. the item costs $110 now thus the tax rate is 10%.

 

[SpidermanTuba]

Sorry Spider I'm afraid it is you that is not the math genius. Tax is a percent of the item being purched itself. Meaning if an item itself is $100 and now a tax is put on it say of $10., that isn't an infinite increase that is an increase of 10%. the item costs $110 now thus the tax rate is 10%.

OK, then why don't you explain to me how the figure of "20,000%" was obtained, genius?

If you can't figure it out, I'll come back and show you.




OK - I have to go.



So I'll explain it for you.


The present maximum tax for a cigar is 5 cents. NOT 5 percent, 5 cents, They want to raise the maximum to 10 dollars.

That's a $10.00 / $0.05 = 200 fold increase, or a 20,000% increase.

Now replace the $0.05 by a $0.00, what do you get? Infinity (assuming the limit is taken from the right)


You see, the word "percent" isn't an actual unit of measure in and of itself, it always refers to a percent OF something. The writer of the linked article is referring to the percent of the TAX itself - and that's what I used to get infinity - you guys are referring to the percent of the TAX BASE - the value the tax is based on.

Both are correct statements, which is why the term "percent" is misleading.

If you raise a 5 cent tax on a 50 cent item to 10 cents, the tax has increased by 10% of the tax base, but it has increased by 100% of the tax itself.

Considering the writer in the link was using percent of the tax itself - I assumed you'd be able to figure out I was doing the same thing.

 

[Toro]

The tax on Cuban cigars is a lot higher.

Its incarceration.

 

[JeffWartman]

OK, then why don't you explain to me how the figure of "20,000%" was obtained, genius?

If you can't figure it out, I'll come back and show you.




OK - I have to go.



So I'll explain it for you.


The present maximum tax for a cigar is 5 cents. NOT 5 percent, 5 cents, They want to raise the maximum to 10 dollars.

That's a $10.00 / $0.05 = 200 fold increase, or a 20,000% increase.

Now replace the $0.05 by a $0.00, what do you get? Infinity (assuming the limit is taken from the right)


You see, the word "percent" isn't an actual unit of measure in and of itself, it always refers to a percent OF something. The writer of the linked article is referring to the percent of the TAX itself - and that's what I used to get infinity - you guys are referring to the percent of the TAX BASE - the value the tax is based on.

Both are correct statements, which is why the term "percent" is misleading.

If you raise a 5 cent tax on a 50 cent item to 10 cents, the tax has increased by 10% of the tax base, but it has increased by 100% of the tax itself.

Considering the writer in the link was using percent of the tax itself - I assumed you'd be able to figure out I was doing the same thing.

I don't always agree with you, but you're correct on this. Not that you needed to be told that, but you're just further proving what I have been saying for a while -- RGS continues to speak out on things of which he has NO clue.

 

[BaronVonBigmeat]

There's so many things wrong with this proposal I don't even know where to begin.

* Cigar smokers tend to not be dirt poor, therefore it's not like their health costs are a burden to taxpayers;

* If they pass this, look for a sharp increase in pipe smoking. Also, growing tobacco as a hobby will skyrocket in popularity, on par with homebrewing.

* Cigars don't have all the nasty additives that cigarettes do

* Cigars (and pipe tobacco) are not inhaled

* Cigars (and pipe tobacco) are not anywhere near as addictive as cigs or dip

* If you insist on taxing tobacco, you ought to be doing it by volume. A single cigar probably has the same amount of tobacco as a pack of cigarettes, and a pack of cigs doesn't get a $10/pack tax.

* I fucking hate super-high tax proposals from weasels who don't have the balls to call for what they really want--out and out prohibition. And with this quasi-prohibition, we will see the mob stepping in to supply tax-free cigars, just like in NYC.

 

[Bern80]

OK, then why don't you explain to me how the figure of "20,000%" was obtained, genius?

If you can't figure it out, I'll come back and show you.




OK - I have to go.



So I'll explain it for you.


The present maximum tax for a cigar is 5 cents. NOT 5 percent, 5 cents, They want to raise the maximum to 10 dollars.

That's a $10.00 / $0.05 = 200 fold increase, or a 20,000% increase.

Now replace the $0.05 by a $0.00, what do you get? Infinity (assuming the limit is taken from the right)


You see, the word "percent" isn't an actual unit of measure in and of itself, it always refers to a percent OF something. The writer of the linked article is referring to the percent of the TAX itself - and that's what I used to get infinity - you guys are referring to the percent of the TAX BASE - the value the tax is based on.

Both are correct statements, which is why the term "percent" is misleading.

If you raise a 5 cent tax on a 50 cent item to 10 cents, the tax has increased by 10% of the tax base, but it has increased by 100% of the tax itself.

Considering the writer in the link was using percent of the tax itself - I assumed you'd be able to figure out I was doing the same thing.

I get the math just fine thank you. Isn't another rule though that you can't divide by zero in the first place.

Secondly it's a tax increase. For there to be an increase doesn't there need to be a tax of some amount in the first place.

Your original point I believe was to point out that the person was incorrect in stating there has never been 20,000% increase on anything. Which you attempted to refute with your infinite thing for taxes on things taht have never been taxed before.

What exactley is the point? Is it that I'm suppossed to be outraged when something that wasn't taxed before now how a 5 cent tax on and thus the tax rate when up to infinite? By your argument something could have a tax of $.01 or $1,000,000 both have gone up by 'infinte' if they weren't taxed before. One is worth gettin worked up over and one isn't. You're infinte argument is comepletely irrelevant.

 

[manu1959]

But the legislation has dragged cigars along for the ride. The industry operates under a 4.8 cents-per-cigar tax cap.

Under the proposed bill, taxes on "large cigars," a category that includes all but the tiny cigars sold in 20 packs like cigarettes, would rise to 53 percent.

A U.S. Senate version of the bill under consideration today in the Finance Committee sets the maximum tax per cigar at $10.

so the cap went from 4.8 cents to $10 (1000 cents) and increase of 995.2 cents.....

any way you cut it is a bit extreme.....

oh ya the percent increase from 4.8 to 1000 is 20733% either that or my calculator is busted

 

[SpidermanTuba]

There's so many things wrong with this proposal I don't even know where to begin.

* Cigar smokers tend to not be dirt poor, therefore it's not like their health costs are a burden to taxpayers;

* I fucking hate super-high tax proposals from weasels who don't have the balls to call for what they really want--out and out prohibition. And with this quasi-prohibition, we will see the mob stepping in to supply tax-free cigars, just like in NYC.[/QUOTE]

Its kind of useless as a tax base if its abolished.

 

[SpidermanTuba]

I get the math just fine thank you. Isn't another rule though that you can't divide by zero in the first place.

Secondly it's a tax increase. For there to be an increase doesn't there need to be a tax of some amount in the first place.

Your original point I believe was to point out that the person was incorrect in stating there has never been 20,000% increase on anything. Which you attempted to refute with your infinite thing for taxes on things taht have never been taxed before.

What exactley is the point? Is it that I'm suppossed to be outraged when something that wasn't taxed before now how a 5 cent tax on and thus the tax rate when up to infinite? By your argument something could have a tax of $.01 or $1,000,000 both have gone up by 'infinte' if they weren't taxed before. One is worth gettin worked up over and one isn't. You're infinte argument is comepletely irrelevant.

The point is that the dude who said taxes on cigars are being increased by %20,000 is a retard.

 

[Nevadamedic]

They need to raise the tax on Cigarettes higher then $1.00 per pack......................

 

[JeffWartman]

They need to raise the tax on Cigarettes higher then $1.00 per pack......................

Yet you call yourself a small government Republican?

Jesus, you neo-cons are worse than socialists