Confedrate history about race?

[Kevin_Kennedy]

Then why do you peddle in the lies of the confederates kk?

Well that's quite a dishonest question, but why do I not condemn the south and praise the north? Because they're both equally guilty of crimes.

 

[Truthmatters]

Go get your sources for unions soldiers being monsters?

I hope you not using mises for that too?

 

[Kevin_Kennedy]

Not too worry, KK. The 13 Amendment took care of that for them, for you, and for me. Don't worry about it. It's OK.

It certainly did. But to suggest that the war was fought to free slaves or that the northern states were some great haven of freedom for former-slaves or blacks in general is ridiculous. Also, to deny and ignore the crimes northern troops committed against slaves and other innocent southerners is appalling.

You mischaracterized the OP. Slavery caused the war, but the war was not fought to free slaves if that is what you mean. Lincoln was quite clear "union first" then worry about slavery. I think once the South fired on Ft Sumter, Lincoln decided immediately that he would end slavery if he could.

We've been through all of this before. But as for what you "think" Lincoln decided, his words seem to contradict you.

 

[JakeStarkey]

KK has fought this battle a dozen times over the last few months and has failed every time.

He will fail here again as well.

His real argument is "the South had the constitutional right to succeed" because he is a libertarian. He will misread Lincoln as well.

Like, who cares?

 

[Kevin_Kennedy]

Go get your sources for unions soldiers being monsters?

I hope you not using mises for that too?

[ame=http://www.amazon.com/War-Crimes-Against-Southern-Civilians/dp/158980466X/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1271637430&sr=8-1]Amazon.com: War Crimes Against Southern Civilians (9781589804661): Walter Cisco: Books[/ame]

I'd find more sources, but since you're just going to dismiss them no matter where they're from I'll save myself the effort.

 

[Kevin_Kennedy]

KK has fought this battle a dozen times over the last few months and has failed every time.

He will fail here again as well.

His real argument is "the South had the constitutional right to succeed" because he is a libertarian. He will misread Lincoln as well.

Like, who cares?

In your opinion I've failed, perhaps. But really, how can one fail in making a point on a message board? I made my point successfully, if you don't agree with it then that's your prerogative.

 

[JakeStarkey]

Thank you for that.

 

[Truthmatters]

That book is written by a southern white man

 

[Missourian]

The War for Southern Independence did not begin directly over slavery.

Abraham Lincoln was quite clear in his inaugural address March 4th, 1861.

I have no purpose, directly or indirectly, to interfere with the institution of slavery in the States where it exists. I believe I have no lawful right to do so, and I have no inclination to do so.

Abraham Lincoln: First Inaugural Address. U.S. Inaugural Addresses. 1989​

This speech was given one month AFTER South Carolina, Florida, Alabama, Georgia, Louisiana, Mississippi and Texas had ALREADY succeeded.

On December 20, 1860, South Carolina seceded. By Febrary 1, 1861, six more states -- Mississippi, Florida, Alabama, Georgia, Louisiana, and Texas -- had split from the Union. The seceded states created the Confederate States of America and elected Jefferson Davis, a Mississippi Senator, as their provisional president.

The Civil War​

End of story. You can attempt to revise history, but these facts remain immutable.

 

[Kevin_Kennedy]

That book is written by a southern white man

lol. Well I'm a northern white man so you should simply take my word for it then.

 

[JakeStarkey]

The War for Southern Independence did not begin directly over slavery.

Abraham Lincoln was quite clear in his inaugural address March 4th, 1861.

I have no purpose, directly or indirectly, to interfere with the institution of slavery in the States where it exists. I believe I have no lawful right to do so, and I have no inclination to do so.

Abraham Lincoln: First Inaugural Address. U.S. Inaugural Addresses. 1989​

This speech was given one month AFTER South Carolina, Florida, Alabama, Georgia, Louisiana, Mississippi and Texas had ALREADY succeeded.

On December 20, 1860, South Carolina seceded. By Febrary 1, 1861, six more states -- Mississippi, Florida, Alabama, Georgia, Louisiana, and Texas -- had split from the Union. The seceded states created the Confederate States of America and elected Jefferson Davis, a Mississippi Senator, as their provisional president.

The Civil War​

End of story. You can attempt to revise history, but these facts remain immutable.

Don't misdirect the OP. The war was caused by slavery, but Lincoln did not engage to eliminate slavery in the War of Southern Aggression until the South foolishly fired on Old Glory and metaphorically spitting in the faces of George Washington and the Patriots and all of their sacrifices.

Vice-President Stephens of the CSA was very clear why the war was fought. Read his March 1861 speech at Cornerstone Speech by Alexander H. Stephens. Check out paragraph nine clearly, for it explodes your theory into little bits.

 

[Missourian]

The War for Southern Independence did not begin directly over slavery.

Abraham Lincoln was quite clear in his inaugural address March 4th, 1861.

I have no purpose, directly or indirectly, to interfere with the institution of slavery in the States where it exists. I believe I have no lawful right to do so, and I have no inclination to do so.

Abraham Lincoln: First Inaugural Address. U.S. Inaugural Addresses. 1989​

This speech was given one month AFTER South Carolina, Florida, Alabama, Georgia, Louisiana, Mississippi and Texas had ALREADY succeeded.

On December 20, 1860, South Carolina seceded. By Febrary 1, 1861, six more states -- Mississippi, Florida, Alabama, Georgia, Louisiana, and Texas -- had split from the Union. The seceded states created the Confederate States of America and elected Jefferson Davis, a Mississippi Senator, as their provisional president.

The Civil War​

End of story. You can attempt to revise history, but these facts remain immutable.

Don't misdirect the OP. The war was caused by slavery, but Lincoln did not engage to eliminate slavery in the War of Southern Aggression until the South foolishly fired on Old Glory and metaphorically spitting in the faces of George Washington and the Patriots and all of their sacrifices.

Vice-President Stephens of the CSA was very clear why the war was fought. Read his March 1861 speech at Cornerstone Speech by Alexander H. Stephens. Check out paragraph nine clearly, for it explodes your theory into little bits.

That is absolutely wrong Jake, Stephens views on slavery are a moot point.

South Carolina succeeded from the Union. The citizens of South Carolina fired on the Star of the West, which was attempting to reinforce the Union fort LOCATED IN SOUTH CAROLINA.

As for "spitting in the face of Washington and the Patriots -

First both Washington and the majority of the patriots of the American War of Independence were slave owners.

Second Washington and the patriots launched a War of Independence against a government that did not represent the American people.

The Confederates followed their example.

 

[Againsheila]

Not too worry, KK. The 13 Amendment took care of that for them, for you, and for me. Don't worry about it. It's OK.

It certainly did. But to suggest that the war was fought to free slaves or that the northern states were some great haven of freedom for former-slaves or blacks in general is ridiculous. Also, to deny and ignore the crimes northern troops committed against slaves and other innocent southerners is appalling.

You mischaracterized the OP. Slavery caused the war, but the war was not fought to free slaves if that is what you mean. Lincoln was quite clear "union first" then worry about slavery. I think once the South fired on Ft Sumter, Lincoln decided immediately that he would end slavery if he could.

Read a history book. If Lincoln could have ended the war without freeing the slaves he would have. As it is, his great Emancipation Proclamation exempted all slaves in northern territory (yes there were slave holding states that remained with the north, giving the lie to the war being about slavery) and all slaves in southern territory already under northern control. In fact, the Emancipation Proclamation didn't free anyone. It was just propaganda to get support from the slaves in the south. The slaves that were in states that remained with the north were not freed until AFTER the civil war.

And FYI, if it weren't for the tariff on manufactured goods, the civil war might very well have NOT happened.

 

[Againsheila]

KK has fought this battle a dozen times over the last few months and has failed every time.

He will fail here again as well.

His real argument is "the South had the constitutional right to succeed" because he is a libertarian. He will misread Lincoln as well.

Like, who cares?

In your opinion I've failed, perhaps. But really, how can one fail in making a point on a message board? I made my point successfully, if you don't agree with it then that's your prerogative.

Actually the south had the right to secede based on the Declaration of Independence, not the Constitution. It's a shame our schools don't really teach American History anymore.

 

[HUGGY]

The War for Southern Independence did not begin directly over slavery.

Abraham Lincoln was quite clear in his inaugural address March 4th, 1861.

I have no purpose, directly or indirectly, to interfere with the institution of slavery in the States where it exists. I believe I have no lawful right to do so, and I have no inclination to do so.

Abraham Lincoln: First Inaugural Address. U.S. Inaugural Addresses. 1989​

This speech was given one month AFTER South Carolina, Florida, Alabama, Georgia, Louisiana, Mississippi and Texas had ALREADY succeeded.

On December 20, 1860, South Carolina seceded. By Febrary 1, 1861, six more states -- Mississippi, Florida, Alabama, Georgia, Louisiana, and Texas -- had split from the Union. The seceded states created the Confederate States of America and elected Jefferson Davis, a Mississippi Senator, as their provisional president.

The Civil War​

End of story. You can attempt to revise history, but these facts remain immutable.

Ah but it is you that are revising history. It is even possible to miss the truth when quoting directly not out of context. Do a little more research and you will discover that Lincolln was very much against slavery but to get southern votes and his secretary of state and vice president he presented himself in a light that some have called dishonest. I cannot give you the bames off the tip of my toungue but the jist of what I am saying is 100% true.

 

[Kevin_Kennedy]

KK has fought this battle a dozen times over the last few months and has failed every time.

He will fail here again as well.

His real argument is "the South had the constitutional right to succeed" because he is a libertarian. He will misread Lincoln as well.

Like, who cares?

In your opinion I've failed, perhaps. But really, how can one fail in making a point on a message board? I made my point successfully, if you don't agree with it then that's your prerogative.

Actually the south had the right to secede based on the Declaration of Independence, not the Constitution. It's a shame our schools don't really teach American History anymore.

The Constitution does not forbid the states from seceding, which means that they do indeed have that power.

 

[Kevin_Kennedy]

The War for Southern Independence did not begin directly over slavery.

Abraham Lincoln was quite clear in his inaugural address March 4th, 1861.

I have no purpose, directly or indirectly, to interfere with the institution of slavery in the States where it exists. I believe I have no lawful right to do so, and I have no inclination to do so.

Abraham Lincoln: First Inaugural Address. U.S. Inaugural Addresses. 1989​

This speech was given one month AFTER South Carolina, Florida, Alabama, Georgia, Louisiana, Mississippi and Texas had ALREADY succeeded.

On December 20, 1860, South Carolina seceded. By Febrary 1, 1861, six more states -- Mississippi, Florida, Alabama, Georgia, Louisiana, and Texas -- had split from the Union. The seceded states created the Confederate States of America and elected Jefferson Davis, a Mississippi Senator, as their provisional president.

The Civil War​

End of story. You can attempt to revise history, but these facts remain immutable.

Ah but it is you that are revising history. It is even possible to miss the truth when quoting directly not out of context. Do a little more research and you will discover that Lincolln was very much against slavery but to get southern votes and his secretary of state and vice president he presented himself in a light that some have called dishonest. I cannot give you the bames off the tip of my toungue but the jist of what I am saying is 100% true.

Lincoln was indeed against slavery, and more importantly against the spread of slavery. He wanted the new American territories to be purely white with no free or slave blacks at all. He wanted the jobs slaves would do for free whites, and wanted to deport all blacks out of the country.

 

[JakeStarkey]

The War for Southern Independence did not begin directly over slavery.

Abraham Lincoln was quite clear in his inaugural address March 4th, 1861.

This speech was given one month AFTER South Carolina, Florida, Alabama, Georgia, Louisiana, Mississippi and Texas had ALREADY succeeded.

End of story. You can attempt to revise history, but these facts remain immutable.

Don't misdirect the OP. The war was caused by slavery, but Lincoln did not engage to eliminate slavery in the War of Southern Aggression until the South foolishly fired on Old Glory and metaphorically spitting in the faces of George Washington and the Patriots and all of their sacrifices.

Vice-President Stephens of the CSA was very clear why the war was fought. Read his March 1861 speech at Cornerstone Speech by Alexander H. Stephens. Check out paragraph nine clearly, for it explodes your theory into little bits.

That is absolutely wrong Jake, Stephens views on slavery are a moot point.

South Carolina succeeded from the Union. The citizens of South Carolina fired on the Star of the West, which was attempting to reinforce the Union fort LOCATED IN SOUTH CAROLINA.

As for "spitting in the face of Washington and the Patriots -

First both Washington and the majority of the patriots of the American War of Independence were slave owners.

Second Washington and the patriots launched a War of Independence against a government that did not represent the American people.

The Confederates followed their example.

Your opinion is contradicted by the facts. The South spit on Washington and the patriots, who formed a minority of the Patriot army: look up the facts. The Confederates were represented by the Congress; they just did not like it. Third, Stephens is correct, and your opinion of him and his speech are not.

These are settled points. They won't change no matter how much you try to twist them.

 

[strollingbones]

The War for Southern Independence did not begin directly over slavery.

Abraham Lincoln was quite clear in his inaugural address March 4th, 1861.

This speech was given one month AFTER South Carolina, Florida, Alabama, Georgia, Louisiana, Mississippi and Texas had ALREADY succeeded.

End of story. You can attempt to revise history, but these facts remain immutable.

Don't misdirect the OP. The war was caused by slavery, but Lincoln did not engage to eliminate slavery in the War of Southern Aggression until the South foolishly fired on Old Glory and metaphorically spitting in the faces of George Washington and the Patriots and all of their sacrifices.

Vice-President Stephens of the CSA was very clear why the war was fought. Read his March 1861 speech at Cornerstone Speech by Alexander H. Stephens. Check out paragraph nine clearly, for it explodes your theory into little bits.

That is absolutely wrong Jake, Stephens views on slavery are a moot point.

South Carolina succeeded from the Union. The citizens of South Carolina fired on the Star of the West, which was attempting to reinforce the Union fort LOCATED IN SOUTH CAROLINA.
As for "spitting in the face of Washington and the Patriots -

First both Washington and the majority of the patriots of the American War of Independence were slave owners.

Second Washington and the patriots launched a War of Independence against a government that did not represent the American people.

The Confederates followed their example.

we are still willing to let the good folks of the state of sc...go....sc has and always will be a problem...they just are....they are like trashy 3rd cuzs...they are gonna show up drunk...cause a fight....break a few things....and pass out...but they are family...

 

[Lonestar_logic]

Do you think those slaves were ordered to fight for their masters?

No.