concerns about the deficit

[Toddsterpatriot]

Bill Clinton raised the top tax rate, and reduced military spending.

He raised rates in 1993.

The economy (and government revenues) didn't really take off until Gingrich got him to cut capital gains taxes.

 

[Stryder50]

Bill Clinton raised the top tax rate, and reduced military spending.

The "reduced military spending" was in form of reduced replacement of old equipment along with reduced spending on spare parts, ammunition stocks, routine maintenance~repair~refit, some cuts in pay(promotions) and benefits, etc.

Caused havoc a few years later when ramping up for "War on Terror" post 9/11-2001, meant a lot of catch-up that required more than would have been had status quo been sustained, and also cost more than steady pace would have. To paraphrase, each dollar he saved cost about two dollars when 'make up for it' time came.

 

[Friends]

The national debt only became a problem with the Republican delusion that it is always a good idea to cut taxes for the rich and never a good idea to raise them.

1980 was President Carter's last year in office. The top tax rate was 70%. The national debt was $908 billion. President Reagan reduced the top tax rate to 28%. His last year in office was 1988. That year the national debt grew to $2,602 billion. President Clinton raised the top tax rate slightly, but it never reached 70%. Presidents Bush II and Trump cut the top tax rate, while raising spending for a military that could not defeat the Taliban in twenty years. During the eight years Bush II was president the national debt rose from $5,807 billion to $10,025. During the Trump years the national debt rose to $27,748.

US National Debt by Year

The U.S. national debt was over $31 trillion in 2022. In 1930, it was just $16 billion. The biggest impacts have been defense spending, recessions, and recently, the pandemic.

www.thebalance.com

https://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-soi/02inpetr.pdf

What do we have to show for all that debt? Nothing really, but more millionaires and billionaires, and a military that could not defeat the Taliban in twenty years. Most Americans have not benefited economically.

 

[Stryder50]

The national debt only became a problem with the Republican delusion that it is always a good idea to cut taxes for the rich and never a good idea to raise them.

1980 was President Carter's last year in office. The top tax rate was 70%. The national debt was $908 billion. President Reagan reduced the top tax rate to 28%. His last year in office was 1988. That year the national debt grew to $2,602 billion. President Clinton raised the top tax rate slightly, but it never reached 70%. Presidents Bush II and Trump cut the top tax rate, while raising spending for a military that could not defeat the Taliban in twenty years. During the eight years Bush II was president the national debt rose from $5,807 billion to $10,025. During the Trump years the national debt rose to $27,748.

US National Debt by Year

The U.S. national debt was over $31 trillion in 2022. In 1930, it was just $16 billion. The biggest impacts have been defense spending, recessions, and recently, the pandemic.

www.thebalance.com

https://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-soi/02inpetr.pdf

What do we have to show for all that debt? Nothing really, but more millionaires and billionaires, and a military that could not defeat the Taliban in twenty years. Most Americans have not benefited economically.

View attachment 683204

National Debt has been a concern since our Nation's founding. Many Founders spoke against having Deficit and Debt as a Federal policy and were for financial solvency.

The delusion is that concern is only a Republican thing and that the solution is to tax the "rich"* more. * One needs to define "Rich" to give this tangent and delusion any hint of credibility.

One problem with your link, and many others similar, is that they don't factor in inflation or adjust the numbers accordingly. And percent of GDP is also inaccurate since the GDP varies based upon the economy.

Still, such do provide a rough gauge and the chart in your link seems to match others.

On Debt to GDP Ratio, we see a rather steady and low rate of increase from post World War Two up until about 2009, Obama's first year in office, where it jumps 14 points from 2008 at 68% to 2009 at 82%. And quite a few healthy leaps the next few years as well. In fact, Obama's eight years in office saw the Debt nearly doubled from what it was when he entered.

It's a common delusion of the loonie Left to think that the "Military" ("Defense/Wars") is the biggest ticket item, but in recent decades both Social Security and Medicare/Medicaid have usually been larger individually, and more than double when combined.

Another useful source for numbers and data is this one;

https://www.usdebtclock.org/index.html

Which includes the "Debt Clock Time Machine" tab in upper right which offers figures in increments going back a few decades.

As for your snarks about our military and defeating the Taliban, a few things to consider;

1) No matter how good one's military is in equipment and personnel, if not operating towards clearly defined goals and realistically achievable conditions for victory, it ain't going to get there.

2) The Taliban are;
A) A product of the Pakistani equivalent to our CIA/NSA known as the ISI. Paki ISI created, funds, trains, supplies, and supports the Taliban.
B) to defeat the Taliban means we'd have to make war on Pakistan and remove the factions within the ISI that do "A)" above.

3) Taliban is another of the many faces of Islamic Jihad, so in the even larger sense there is the conflict with a philosophy, ideology, religion, and culture that produces Taliban, Al Qaeda, Hezbollah, Etc.
So far, the USA and West have not wanted to expand the "War" to this degree, which is what it would take to "Win".

 

[Friends]

On Debt to GDP Ratio, we see a rather steady and low rate of increase from post World War Two up until about 2009,

The Second World War ended in 1945. Then the national debt as a percentage of gross domestic product (GDP) was 114%. During President Carter's last year in office, in 1980, this had declined to 32%. It declined under Republican and Democrat Presidents, It declined during the wars in Korea and Vietnam. The top tax rate never got below 70% and was as high as 94% in 1945.

President Reagan reduced the top tax rate to 28%, and increased military spending substantially. This increase was unnecessary because the United States was at peace and the Soviet Union was collapsing from within. Because of Reagan's tax cuts for the rich, the national debt as a percentage of GDP rose to 50%.

US National Debt by Year

The U.S. national debt was over $31 trillion in 2022. In 1930, it was just $16 billion. The biggest impacts have been defense spending, recessions, and recently, the pandemic.

www.thebalance.com

https://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-soi/02inpetr.pdf

During President Obama's eight years in office, from 2009 to 2016, the national debt as a percentage of GDP grew from 82% to 105%. During this time Obama was dealing with the deepest recession since the 1930's, a recession that began when George W. Bush was president.

Nevertheless, the debt grew quite a bid more under Trump than Obama.

Obama's big mistake was in not hiking the top tax rate soon after his inauguration. His approval rate was 69%.

Presidential Approval Ratings -- Barack Obama

Do you approve or disapprove of the way Barack Obama is handling his job as president?

news.gallup.com

That was the time for Obama to do some heavy lifting. For years public opinion surveys have indicated support for a more progressive tax system. Higher taxes for the rich mean lower deficits, like they did from 1945 to 1980.

poll + taxes + rich - Google Search

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

The Second World War ended in 1945. Then the national debt as a percentage of gross domestic product (GDP) was 114%. During President Carter's last year in office, in 1980, this had declined to 32%. It declined under Republican and Democrat Presidents, It declined during the wars in Korea and Vietnam. The top tax rate never got below 70% and was as high as 94% in 1945.

President Reagan reduced the top tax rate to 28%, and increased military spending substantially. This increase was unnecessary because the United States was at peace and the Soviet Union was collapsing from within. Because of Reagan's tax cuts for the rich, the national debt as a percentage of GDP rose to 50%.

US National Debt by Year

The U.S. national debt was over $31 trillion in 2022. In 1930, it was just $16 billion. The biggest impacts have been defense spending, recessions, and recently, the pandemic.

www.thebalance.com

https://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-soi/02inpetr.pdf

During President Obama's eight years in office, from 2009 to 2016, the national debt as a percentage of GDP grew from 82% to 105%. During this time Obama was dealing with the deepest recession since the 1930's, a recession that began when George W. Bush was president.

Nevertheless, the debt grew quite a bid more under Trump than Obama.

View attachment 683346

Obama's big mistake was in not hiking the top tax rate soon after his inauguration. His approval rate was 69%.

Presidential Approval Ratings -- Barack Obama

Do you approve or disapprove of the way Barack Obama is handling his job as president?

news.gallup.com

That was the time for Obama to do some heavy lifting. For years public opinion surveys have indicated support for a more progressive tax system. Higher taxes for the rich mean lower deficits, like they did from 1945 to 1980.

poll + taxes + rich - Google Search

President Reagan reduced the top tax rate to 28%, and increased military spending substantially.

All by himself?

This increase was unnecessary because the United States was at peace and the Soviet Union was collapsing from within

Are you still sad that the Soviet Union collapsed?

During President Obama's eight years in office, from 2009 to 2016, the national debt as a percentage of GDP grew from 82% to 105%. During this time Obama was dealing with the deepest recession since the 1930's,

You mean the recession that ended in June 2009?

 

[Friends]

The Second World War ended in 1945. Then the national debt as a percentage of gross domestic product (GDP) was 114%. During President Carter's last year in office, in 1980, this had declined to 32%. It declined under Republican and Democrat Presidents, It declined during the wars in Korea and Vietnam. The top tax rate never got below 70% and was as high as 94% in 1945.

President Reagan reduced the top tax rate to 28%, and increased military spending substantially. This increase was unnecessary because the United States was at peace and the Soviet Union was collapsing from within. Because of Reagan's tax cuts for the rich, the national debt as a percentage of GDP rose to 50%.

US National Debt by Year

The U.S. national debt was over $31 trillion in 2022. In 1930, it was just $16 billion. The biggest impacts have been defense spending, recessions, and recently, the pandemic.

www.thebalance.com

https://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-soi/02inpetr.pdf

During President Obama's eight years in office, from 2009 to 2016, the national debt as a percentage of GDP grew from 82% to 105%. During this time Obama was dealing with the deepest recession since the 1930's, a recession that began when George W. Bush was president.

Nevertheless, the debt grew quite a bid more under Trump than Obama.

View attachment 683346

Obama's big mistake was in not hiking the top tax rate soon after his inauguration. His approval rate was 69%.

Presidential Approval Ratings -- Barack Obama

Do you approve or disapprove of the way Barack Obama is handling his job as president?

news.gallup.com

That was the time for Obama to do some heavy lifting. For years public opinion surveys have indicated support for a more progressive tax system. Higher taxes for the rich mean lower deficits, like they did from 1945 to 1980.

poll + taxes + rich - Google Search

President Reagan reduced the top tax rate to 28%, and increased military spending substantially.

All by himself?

This increase was unnecessary because the United States was at peace and the Soviet Union was collapsing from within

Are you still sad that the Soviet Union collapsed?

During President Obama's eight years in office, from 2009 to 2016, the national debt as a percentage of GDP grew from 82% to 105%. During this time Obama was dealing with the deepest recession since the 1930's,

You mean the recession that ended in June 2009?

Regardless of what the Constitution says, the system has evolved to the extend that the President has the leading role in taxing and spending. The Presidential administration sends Congress a budget. Congress adds and subtracts, and returns the budget to the president who can sign or veto it. During the campaign of 1980 Reagan made it clear that he intended to cut taxes and raise military spending, and that is what he did. Everyone in Congress who voted to cut taxes while raising military spending shares responsibility for the rise in the national debt, and the rise in national debt per gross domestic product (GDP) that happened during the Reagan administration, but Reagan is mainly responsible, because it was his initial proposal. During the Reagan administration George Will, a Republican columnist, said that if every Reagan has been approved in its entirety, the increase in the national debt under Reagan would only be 10% less than it was.

When I think of what has followed the fall of the Soviet Union I am not pleased with the results. I vastly prefer Mikhail Gorbachev to Vladimir Putin. Soviet leaders, including Nikita Khrushchev, expressed sanity and realism about the danger of nuclear war that I do not detect in Putin. During the 1990's the standard of living of about 80% of Russians declined, often to precipitous degrees. Many pensioners died because the new government was unable to pay their pensions.

That is what led to the rise of Putin. Because I admire Edmund Burke, I dislike abrupt political changes. Consequently I sort of do regret the fall of the Soviet Union. For the same reason, I regret the rise of the Soviet Union. If the Bolshevik takeover had not happened in 1917, the Provisional Government under Alexander Kerensky would have evolved into a representative democracy. Because it would have continued to fight Germany, the Germans would not have been able to move forces to the Western Front. Germany would have lost World War I earlier.

I even regret the fall of the Romanov Dynasty. If Czar Nicholas II had had the sense not to mobilize, Germany would not have declared war on Russia. What became World War I would have been localized in the Balkan Peninsula. Russia's defeat in the War with Japan in 1905 had caused Czar Nicholas II to be reduced from an absolute monarch to a constitutional monarch who shared power with a democratically elected Duma. Without World War I Russia would have still became a representative democracy, only with a figurehead monarch.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

Regardless of what the Constitution says, the system has evolved to the extend that the President has the leading role in taxing and spending. The Presidential administration sends Congress a budget. Congress adds and subtracts, and returns the budget to the president who can sign or veto it. During the campaign of 1980 Reagan made it clear that he intended to cut taxes and raise military spending, and that is what he did. Everyone in Congress who voted to cut taxes while raising military spending shares responsibility for the rise in the national debt, and the rise in national debt per gross domestic product (GDP) that happened during the Reagan administration, but Reagan is mainly responsible, because it was his initial proposal. During the Reagan administration George Will, a Republican columnist, said that if every Reagan has been approved in its entirety, the increase in the national debt under Reagan would only be 10% less than it was.

When I think of what has followed the fall of the Soviet Union I am not pleased with the results. I vastly prefer Mikhail Gorbachev to Vladimir Putin. Soviet leaders, including Nikita Khrushchev expressed sanity and realism about the danger of nuclear war that I do not detect in Putin. During the 1990's the standard of living of about 80% of Russians declined, often to precipitous degrees. Many pensioners died because the new government was unable to pay their pensions.

That is what led to the rise of Putin. Because I admire Edmund Burke, I dislike abrupt political changes. Consequently I sort of do regret the fall of the Soviet Union. For the same reason, I regret the rise of the Soviet Union. If the Bolshevik takeover had not happened in 1917, the Provisional Government under Alexander Kerensky would have evolved into a representative democracy. Because it would have continued to fight Germany, the Germans would not have been able to move forces to the Western Front. Germany would have lost World War I earlier.

I even regret the fall of the Romanov Dynasty. If Czar Nicholas II had had the sense not to mobilize, Germany would not have declared war on Russia. What became World War I would have been localized in the Balkan Peninsula. Russia's defeat in the War with Japan in 1905 had caused Czar Nicholas II to be reduced from an absolute monarch to a constitutional monarch who shared power with a democratically elected Duma. Without World War I Russia would have still became a representative democracy, only with a figurehead monarch.

Regardless of what the Constitution says, the system has evolved to the extend that the President has the leading role in taxing and spending. The Presidential administration sends Congress a budget. Congress adds and subtracts, and returns the budget to the president

Adds subtracts and, finally, passes it by majority vote. So, you could say, no, not by himself.

During the campaign of 1980 Reagan made it clear that he intended to cut taxes and raise military spending, and that is what he did.

Yeah, just two of the things that made him so awesome.

When I think of what has followed the fall of the Soviet Union I am not pleased with the results.

No kidding. All those enslaved countries suddenly freed......just awful!

I vastly prefer Mikhail Gorbachev to Vladimir Putin.

Russian dictators suck.

During the 1990's the standard of living of about 80% of Russians declined, often to precipitous degrees. Many pensioners died because the new government was unable to pay their pensions.

Yeah, the commies are best at fucking over their own people.

 

[Friends]

During the campaign of 1980 Reagan made it clear that he intended to cut taxes and raise military spending, and that is what he did.

Yeah, just two of the things that made him so awesome.

Republicans used to value balanced budgets. What happened to that?

 

[Friends]

During the 1990's the standard of living of about 80% of Russians declined, often to precipitous degrees. Many pensioners died because the new government was unable to pay their pensions.

Yeah, the commies are best at fucking over their own people.

The Soviet Union fell in December 25, 1991. The economic declined happened afterwards.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

Republicans used to value balanced budgets. What happened to that?

Yeah, after Gingrich, they kind of lost interest.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

The Soviet Union fell in December 25, 1991. The economic declined happened afterwards.

Their economy sucked well before they collapsed.
It was kind of the reason why they collapsed.
Communism doesn't work.

 

[Friends]

Their economy sucked well before they collapsed.
It was kind of the reason why they collapsed.
Communism doesn't work.

I have already said that I regret the rise and the existence of the Soviet government. Nevertheless, the Soviet government carried Russia from semi feudalism to the space age while doing most of the fighting and dying to defeat Nazi Germany. It is not clear to me that a less tyrannical government could have industrialized rapidly enough to produce the weapons that defeated Germany.

The weakness of the Soviet economy was in producing consumer goods. Everyone agrees in what is a good tank or military rifle. Consumer tastes are fickle and unpredictable. They are best satisfied by many companies competing with each other.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

Nevertheless, the Soviet government carried Russia from semi feudalism to the space age while doing most of the fighting and dying to defeat Nazi Germany.

And they only murdered 20 million (more?) of their own people to do it.

 

[Friends]

And they only murdered 20 million (more?) of their own people to do it.

What you say is true.

The only conceivable justification for the Soviet government is that it repelled the German invasion. The Nazis did not intend to exterminate the Slavs as directly and immediately as they exterminated the Jews. They intended to treat the Slavs harshly enough that they would gradually die off, so that they could be replaced by German settlers.