Coming up on the 71st anniversary of Iwo Jima

[gipper]

It was a part of justifying the use of the Bomb.

In 1945- no one was very concerned about justifying the use of the Atomic bomb.

While there were a few concerned about the morality of using the atomic bomb, that I believe was mostly ignorance- ignorance of the massive bombing campaigns over Tokyo and other Japanese cities. Most Americans had no qualms with inflicting any harm to Japan- and FDR was a master of the pulse of the American people. He didn't have to justify using a weapon that he didn't live to authorize the use of.

Was Iwo Jima a mistake? Very possibly- certainly we committed to very many other costly battles that in hindsight accomplished little- and to our point of view- should have been foreseen.

Is your thread intended to be a warning of how governments can commit to make strategic errors- or is it just another attack on FDR?

The one thing that we should absolutely remember about the Battle of Iwo Jima is the bravery and sacrifice of the Marines who believed that they were making a difference in the battle to defeat Imperial Japan.

Yes, in the eye of those who are beholden to the foreign powers, all that the USA does in our defense is a mistake. Of course our biggest mistake is allowing folks like Howard Zinn to become professors in our Universities.

That Japanese were a very cruel, sadistic, murderous people who needed to be stopped, is ignored by the revisionist, It is a shame we did not have the Atomic Bomb in 1941 to stop them and Hitler.

The Atomic Bomb and the Marines saved the lives of countless Americans, 100,000? Maybe 500,000? The estimates vary, at the least destroying Nagasaki and Hiroshima saved a 1,000,000 Japanese lives.

Thank God, Truman treated the Atomic bomb as if it was simply the biggest, best, bomb ever made. All these emotions that syriusly attach to the bomb is just revisionist marxism as published by Howard Zinn.

Yes, syriously speaks of morality? In syriously's mind morality was to never to stop that japanese before or after they began their campaign of raping 10 year old chines virgins or the bayoneting of pregnant chinese women.

Yes, syriously would of had the USA cower and retreat, leaving Pearl Harbor and Hawaii to the Japanese, most likely surrendering California and the entire west coast of the USA to the Japanese.

syriously has no idea what is, moral.

Yeah KILL those women, children, and old people because they are cruel, sadistic, and murderous.

 

[elektra]

Yeah KILL those women, children, and old people because they are cruel, sadistic, and murderous.

What kind of Father and Mother teaches a child to grow into a man that bayonets a pregnant Chinese woman in the womb and then proudly saves the photo sent home?

 

[elektra]

Nagasaki was the city where the Japanese repaired their ships.

Hiroshima was the headquarters of one of the Regiments of the Army.

The Gipper as commander of the Military would not of attacked these targets?

 

[gipper]

Yeah KILL those women, children, and old people because they are cruel, sadistic, and murderous.

What kind of Father and Mother teaches a child to grow into a man that bayonets a pregnant Chinese woman in the womb and then proudly saves the photo sent home?

Kill...Kill...Kill.

You are no different from them.

 

[elektra]

Kill...Kill...Kill.

You are no different from them.

I am happy to see that your only response, is not rational, a simple rant.

 

[regent]

Nagasaki was the city where the Japanese repaired their ships.

Hiroshima was the headquarters of one of the Regiments of the Army.

The Gipper as commander of the Military would not of attacked these targets?

Another factor was because of the American bombings the Japanese moved much industry to small places, a form of cottage industry. Whose the Gipper?

 

[elektra]

Nagasaki was the city where the Japanese repaired their ships.

Hiroshima was the headquarters of one of the Regiments of the Army.

The Gipper as commander of the Military would not of attacked these targets?

Another factor was because of the American bombings the Japanese moved much industry to small places, a form of cottage industry. Whose the Gipper?

the user I was responding to.

 

[Unkotare]

Yeah KILL those women, children, and old people because they are cruel, sadistic, and murderous.

What kind of Father and Mother teaches a child to grow into a man that bayonets a pregnant Chinese woman in the womb and then proudly saves the photo sent home?

So, kill every civilian? Is that your position?

 

[elektra]

So, kill every civilian? Is that your position?

Civilians, last I checked the nation of Japan was at war with us, civilians literally making bullets, guns, bombs, to kill us with, actively participating in the War machine. Acting as one united, not as individuals.

But hey, we did not kill every civilian. Not even close, we actually saved at least a million Japanese lives or more.

So your position is thus, that the USA should of surrendered the West Coast of California after Pearl Harbor was bombed.

 

[Unkotare]

So, kill every civilian? Is that your position?

Civilians, last I checked the nation of Japan was at war with us, civilians literally making bullets, guns, bombs, to kill us with, actively participating in the War machine. Acting as one united, not as individuals.......

Does that gossamer delusion make it easier for you to accept yourself as someone who would slaughter every last civilian?

 

[Unkotare]

So your position is thus, that the USA should of surrendered the West Coast of California after Pearl Harbor was bombed.

Who said that?

 

[elektra]

So, kill every civilian? Is that your position?

Civilians, last I checked the nation of Japan was at war with us, civilians literally making bullets, guns, bombs, to kill us with, actively participating in the War machine. Acting as one united, not as individuals.......

Does that gossamer delusion make it easier for you to accept yourself as someone who would slaughter every last civilian?

I do not need to justify my self-defense.

 

[elektra]

So your position is thus, that the USA should of surrendered the West Coast of California after Pearl Harbor was bombed.

Who said that?

Who said the things you state.

 

[regent]

The next major war will kill civilians wholesale, the weapons now designed for a WWIII will do just that.

 

[gipper]

So, kill every civilian? Is that your position?

Civilians, last I checked the nation of Japan was at war with us, civilians literally making bullets, guns, bombs, to kill us with, actively participating in the War machine. Acting as one united, not as individuals.

But hey, we did not kill every civilian. Not even close, we actually saved at least a million Japanese lives or more.

So your position is thus, that the USA should of surrendered the West Coast of California after Pearl Harbor was bombed.

The Japanese people lived under a dictatorial regime. If you refuse to do as you are told, by the regime, you die. So, if you were a Japanese civilian in 1945, you would support the war effort or be executed. For this they deserve death, in your blood lust mind.

The belief that the a-bombs saved lives, because they made invasion unnecessary, is bull shit. That theory was trotted out by the Truman administration AFTER the a-bombs and criticism mounted for wantonly murdering civilians. Many members of the US military leadership and administration disapproved of the a-bombing.

You must come to realize Japan had nothing left to fight with, in summer '45. Their people were starving and their nation defenseless. Yet, Truman went ahead an incinerated defenseless women, children, and old men when he dropped the a-bombs. Like most politicians, he was lying fool.

 

[elektra]

So, kill every civilian? Is that your position?

Civilians, last I checked the nation of Japan was at war with us, civilians literally making bullets, guns, bombs, to kill us with, actively participating in the War machine. Acting as one united, not as individuals.

But hey, we did not kill every civilian. Not even close, we actually saved at least a million Japanese lives or more.

So your position is thus, that the USA should of surrendered the West Coast of California after Pearl Harbor was bombed.

The Japanese people lived under a dictatorial regime. If you refuse to do as you are told, by the regime, you die. So, if you were a Japanese civilian in 1945, you would support the war effort or be executed. For this they deserve death, in your blood lust mind.

The belief that the a-bombs saved lives, because they made invasion unnecessary, is bull shit. That theory was trotted out by the Truman administration AFTER the a-bombs and criticism mounted for wantonly murdering civilians. Many members of the US military leadership and administration disapproved of the a-bombing.

You must come to realize Japan had nothing left to fight with, in summer '45. Their people were starving and their nation defenseless. Yet, Truman went ahead an incinerated defenseless women, children, and old men when he dropped the a-bombs. Like most politicians, he was lying fool.

You must think your tired old argument has not been debated a thousand times before.

How the Japanese lived and thought at the time is irrelevant, they certainly did not think like individuals, they thought as unit, as one. They would not consider thinking otherwise, for that was the culture. How about a statistic to support your claim they lived in fear of reprisals of the Emperor?

Many members of the Military Leadership disapproved? Is this where you para-phrase Eisenhower at Potsdam and where I follow up by showing Eisenhower wrote 2 different versions of that story, many years later. I will also show that Stimson had a different account in his book as well.

The Japanese had nothing left to fight with? They did in the spring that is evident. Okinawa. But you did say the summer, so I guess to make your argument we will ignore the men who were prisoners getting tortured, starving, and dying, fine. So my response to that, if you can come up with a link or something to reference, my response will be quotes from all the high ranking Japanese Military commanders that disagree with you.

I will finish the "defenseless Japanese" argument with the sinking of the USS Indianapolis by the Japanese on July 30th of 1945, 900 sailors died.

Nagasaki was responsible for the repair of ships and submarines, did the one that got the USS Indianapolis port in Nagasaki?

Then just to show your uneducated, I will point out only 1 A-Bomb was dropped. Not "a-bombs" as you believe. I guess for the uneducated stating a-bombs sounds more devastating then simply saying 2 Nuclear Bombs. 1 A-Bomb. 1 Hydrogen bomb.

So, which do you wish to tackle first, defenseless Japanese is the most difficult so you should ignore that.
Top officials disagreeing is hard as well, for every top official who knew, agreed to end the war with the 2 bombs, not to mention I can site current statements from the time and you can only site statements from years later.

My Japanese Military leader stuff is about impossible to refute.

Nagasaki and Mitsubusi Heavy industries always throw the revisionists for a spin. Hiroshima as the Headquarters of the Japanese 8th Army is also a very good comeback.

So, just take a little area or if you want, rant the tired old Revisionist creed, I guarantee I have a book to throw at you.

 

[gipper]

So, kill every civilian? Is that your position?

Civilians, last I checked the nation of Japan was at war with us, civilians literally making bullets, guns, bombs, to kill us with, actively participating in the War machine. Acting as one united, not as individuals.

But hey, we did not kill every civilian. Not even close, we actually saved at least a million Japanese lives or more.

So your position is thus, that the USA should of surrendered the West Coast of California after Pearl Harbor was bombed.

The Japanese people lived under a dictatorial regime. If you refuse to do as you are told, by the regime, you die. So, if you were a Japanese civilian in 1945, you would support the war effort or be executed. For this they deserve death, in your blood lust mind.

The belief that the a-bombs saved lives, because they made invasion unnecessary, is bull shit. That theory was trotted out by the Truman administration AFTER the a-bombs and criticism mounted for wantonly murdering civilians. Many members of the US military leadership and administration disapproved of the a-bombing.

You must come to realize Japan had nothing left to fight with, in summer '45. Their people were starving and their nation defenseless. Yet, Truman went ahead an incinerated defenseless women, children, and old men when he dropped the a-bombs. Like most politicians, he was lying fool.

You must think your tired old argument has not been debated a thousand times before.

How the Japanese lived and thought at the time is irrelevant, they certainly did not think like individuals, they thought as unit, as one. They would not consider thinking otherwise, for that was the culture. How about a statistic to support your claim they lived in fear of reprisals of the Emperor?

Many members of the Military Leadership disapproved? Is this where you para-phrase Eisenhower at Potsdam and where I follow up by showing Eisenhower wrote 2 different versions of that story, many years later. I will also show that Stimson had a different account in his book as well.

The Japanese had nothing left to fight with? They did in the spring that is evident. Okinawa. But you did say the summer, so I guess to make your argument we will ignore the men who were prisoners getting tortured, starving, and dying, fine. So my response to that, if you can come up with a link or something to reference, my response will be quotes from all the high ranking Japanese Military commanders that disagree with you.

I will finish the "defenseless Japanese" argument with the sinking of the USS Indianapolis by the Japanese on July 30th of 1945, 900 sailors died.

Nagasaki was responsible for the repair of ships and submarines, did the one that got the USS Indianapolis port in Nagasaki?

Then just to show your uneducated, I will point out only 1 A-Bomb was dropped. Not "a-bombs" as you believe. I guess for the uneducated stating a-bombs sounds more devastating then simply saying 2 Nuclear Bombs. 1 A-Bomb. 1 Hydrogen bomb.

So, which do you wish to tackle first, defenseless Japanese is the most difficult so you should ignore that.
Top officials disagreeing is hard as well, for every top official who knew, agreed to end the war with the 2 bombs, not to mention I can site current statements from the time and you can only site statements from years later.

My Japanese Military leader stuff is about impossible to refute.

Nagasaki and Mitsubusi Heavy industries always throw the revisionists for a spin. Hiroshima as the Headquarters of the Japanese 8th Army is also a very good comeback.

So, just take a little area or if you want, rant the tired old Revisionist creed, I guarantee I have a book to throw at you.

If the shoe were on the other foot, and the Japanese bombed the USA into submission, murdering millions of American civilians, you would think differently.

Stop believing the statist lies. War is ALWAYS the health of the STATE...and WWII is a perfect example of this fundamental truth.

The a-bombings were the greatest war crime EVER committed. Truman should have been tried and executed for his crime, just as many German and Japanese war criminals were.

 

[elektra]

So, kill every civilian? Is that your position?

Civilians, last I checked the nation of Japan was at war with us, civilians literally making bullets, guns, bombs, to kill us with, actively participating in the War machine. Acting as one united, not as individuals.

But hey, we did not kill every civilian. Not even close, we actually saved at least a million Japanese lives or more.

So your position is thus, that the USA should of surrendered the West Coast of California after Pearl Harbor was bombed.

The Japanese people lived under a dictatorial regime. If you refuse to do as you are told, by the regime, you die. So, if you were a Japanese civilian in 1945, you would support the war effort or be executed. For this they deserve death, in your blood lust mind.

The belief that the a-bombs saved lives, because they made invasion unnecessary, is bull shit. That theory was trotted out by the Truman administration AFTER the a-bombs and criticism mounted for wantonly murdering civilians. Many members of the US military leadership and administration disapproved of the a-bombing.

You must come to realize Japan had nothing left to fight with, in summer '45. Their people were starving and their nation defenseless. Yet, Truman went ahead an incinerated defenseless women, children, and old men when he dropped the a-bombs. Like most politicians, he was lying fool.

You must think your tired old argument has not been debated a thousand times before.

How the Japanese lived and thought at the time is irrelevant, they certainly did not think like individuals, they thought as unit, as one. They would not consider thinking otherwise, for that was the culture. How about a statistic to support your claim they lived in fear of reprisals of the Emperor?

Many members of the Military Leadership disapproved? Is this where you para-phrase Eisenhower at Potsdam and where I follow up by showing Eisenhower wrote 2 different versions of that story, many years later. I will also show that Stimson had a different account in his book as well.

The Japanese had nothing left to fight with? They did in the spring that is evident. Okinawa. But you did say the summer, so I guess to make your argument we will ignore the men who were prisoners getting tortured, starving, and dying, fine. So my response to that, if you can come up with a link or something to reference, my response will be quotes from all the high ranking Japanese Military commanders that disagree with you.

I will finish the "defenseless Japanese" argument with the sinking of the USS Indianapolis by the Japanese on July 30th of 1945, 900 sailors died.

Nagasaki was responsible for the repair of ships and submarines, did the one that got the USS Indianapolis port in Nagasaki?

Then just to show your uneducated, I will point out only 1 A-Bomb was dropped. Not "a-bombs" as you believe. I guess for the uneducated stating a-bombs sounds more devastating then simply saying 2 Nuclear Bombs. 1 A-Bomb. 1 Hydrogen bomb.

So, which do you wish to tackle first, defenseless Japanese is the most difficult so you should ignore that.
Top officials disagreeing is hard as well, for every top official who knew, agreed to end the war with the 2 bombs, not to mention I can site current statements from the time and you can only site statements from years later.

My Japanese Military leader stuff is about impossible to refute.

Nagasaki and Mitsubusi Heavy industries always throw the revisionists for a spin. Hiroshima as the Headquarters of the Japanese 8th Army is also a very good comeback.

So, just take a little area or if you want, rant the tired old Revisionist creed, I guarantee I have a book to throw at you.

If the shoe were on the other foot, and the Japanese bombed the USA into submission, murdering millions of American civilians, you would think differently.

Stop believing the statist lies. War is ALWAYS the health of the STATE...and WWII is a perfect example of this fundamental truth.

The a-bombings were the greatest war crime EVER committed. Truman should have been tried and executed for his crime, just as many German and Japanese war criminals were.

The Japanese did bomb the USA and murder Americans, except the Japanese did this when we were not at War with Japan. So there is not need to argue if the shoe was on the other foot, for we have a shoe that kicked us in the Ass while we were not looking.

Hardly an argument, the dropping of the 2 nuclear bombs came with a warning, just a couple of days before, we literally told them to surrender or we will blow you up, destroy your cities.

When a country attacks another country and declares war, the subsequent deaths the aggressor suffers is not murder, it is simply our self-defense.

The Japanese Emperor was told to surrender, than we dropped leaflets on the target, explaining that the city was to be destroyed and that they should evacuate. Many did leave, over 100,000. Lucky for them.

Surrender or die, the warning was given.

 

[gipper]

So, kill every civilian? Is that your position?

Civilians, last I checked the nation of Japan was at war with us, civilians literally making bullets, guns, bombs, to kill us with, actively participating in the War machine. Acting as one united, not as individuals.

But hey, we did not kill every civilian. Not even close, we actually saved at least a million Japanese lives or more.

So your position is thus, that the USA should of surrendered the West Coast of California after Pearl Harbor was bombed.

The Japanese people lived under a dictatorial regime. If you refuse to do as you are told, by the regime, you die. So, if you were a Japanese civilian in 1945, you would support the war effort or be executed. For this they deserve death, in your blood lust mind.

The belief that the a-bombs saved lives, because they made invasion unnecessary, is bull shit. That theory was trotted out by the Truman administration AFTER the a-bombs and criticism mounted for wantonly murdering civilians. Many members of the US military leadership and administration disapproved of the a-bombing.

You must come to realize Japan had nothing left to fight with, in summer '45. Their people were starving and their nation defenseless. Yet, Truman went ahead an incinerated defenseless women, children, and old men when he dropped the a-bombs. Like most politicians, he was lying fool.

You must think your tired old argument has not been debated a thousand times before.

How the Japanese lived and thought at the time is irrelevant, they certainly did not think like individuals, they thought as unit, as one. They would not consider thinking otherwise, for that was the culture. How about a statistic to support your claim they lived in fear of reprisals of the Emperor?

Many members of the Military Leadership disapproved? Is this where you para-phrase Eisenhower at Potsdam and where I follow up by showing Eisenhower wrote 2 different versions of that story, many years later. I will also show that Stimson had a different account in his book as well.

The Japanese had nothing left to fight with? They did in the spring that is evident. Okinawa. But you did say the summer, so I guess to make your argument we will ignore the men who were prisoners getting tortured, starving, and dying, fine. So my response to that, if you can come up with a link or something to reference, my response will be quotes from all the high ranking Japanese Military commanders that disagree with you.

I will finish the "defenseless Japanese" argument with the sinking of the USS Indianapolis by the Japanese on July 30th of 1945, 900 sailors died.

Nagasaki was responsible for the repair of ships and submarines, did the one that got the USS Indianapolis port in Nagasaki?

Then just to show your uneducated, I will point out only 1 A-Bomb was dropped. Not "a-bombs" as you believe. I guess for the uneducated stating a-bombs sounds more devastating then simply saying 2 Nuclear Bombs. 1 A-Bomb. 1 Hydrogen bomb.

So, which do you wish to tackle first, defenseless Japanese is the most difficult so you should ignore that.
Top officials disagreeing is hard as well, for every top official who knew, agreed to end the war with the 2 bombs, not to mention I can site current statements from the time and you can only site statements from years later.

My Japanese Military leader stuff is about impossible to refute.

Nagasaki and Mitsubusi Heavy industries always throw the revisionists for a spin. Hiroshima as the Headquarters of the Japanese 8th Army is also a very good comeback.

So, just take a little area or if you want, rant the tired old Revisionist creed, I guarantee I have a book to throw at you.

If the shoe were on the other foot, and the Japanese bombed the USA into submission, murdering millions of American civilians, you would think differently.

Stop believing the statist lies. War is ALWAYS the health of the STATE...and WWII is a perfect example of this fundamental truth.

The a-bombings were the greatest war crime EVER committed. Truman should have been tried and executed for his crime, just as many German and Japanese war criminals were.

The Japanese did bomb the USA and murder Americans, except the Japanese did this when we were not at War with Japan. So there is not need to argue if the shoe was on the other foot, for we have a shoe that kicked us in the Ass while we were not looking.

Hardly an argument, the dropping of the 2 nuclear bombs came with a warning, just a couple of days before, we literally told them to surrender or we will blow you up, destroy your cities.

When a country attacks another country and declares war, the subsequent deaths the aggressor suffers is not murder, it is simply our self-defense.

The Japanese Emperor was told to surrender, than we dropped leaflets on the target, explaining that the city was to be destroyed and that they should evacuate. Many did leave, over 100,000. Lucky for them.

Surrender or die, the warning was given.View attachment 65712

The Japanese military bombed a US MILITARY BASE...they did not murder 100s of thousands of civilians, as the US military did. Comparing the bombing of Pearl Harbor to the bombings of Hiroshima, Nagasaki, and the many other Japanese cities the US obliterated, is the act of a desperate fool.

Of course you are utterly unaware that FDR did all he could to get Japan to attack, knew the attack was coming beforehand, warned no one, and thus lied us into war...all to save his buddy Uncle Joe.

Japan tried to surrender as early as 1943 and FDR said FUCK you. Unconditional surrender or else.

You are terribly misguided. To think the wanton cold blooded murder of Japanese civilians, by the US military is justified because Japan attacked first, is another example of your blood lust and ignorance.

 

[Unkotare]

The ridiculous stereotyping that no one was an individual is the most transparently ignorant and desperate grasping for justification. It reveals a fundamental insecurity in ones position.