College Should Be Free! (For Americans)

[gallantwarrior]

There are two sides to the "Free College" coin. Americans like to embrace the "free" side, but the "college" side - not so much.

Because we have universally adopted the ridiculous notion that a college education should be available for anyone who wants one. Consequently, our colleges cater to millions of young "adults" who are, to put it bluntly, "not college material." They teach remedial courses, their level of academic rigor is a joke, and most of the offered college majors are irrelevant, worthless nonsense. Ethnic studies? Are you kidding me?

Germany has "free" universities, but the requirements for admission are rigorous, and not subject to distortion based on race, gender, or other extraneous factors.

I would wholeheartedly support "free" college at state schools for the top 20% of 18-year-olds, based on QUANTITATIVE criteria - mainly objective test scores. For the other 80%, they would be free to go anywhere they could afford to go - at their own expense, with no government loans or subsidies.

And I submit that diplomas from such state colleges would be quite valuable, as employers would know that the students are all top-notch, and the coursework is no nonsense.

But of course, excellence in education is a fantastical pipe dream as long as Lefties control Academe. They would insist on "diversity" in the "free" state universities, which would in-turn require watered-down course work, bullshit majors, and we would be no better off than we are now.

When I lived in Germany, they also provided opportunities for those "not college material" young people who preferred to pursue the trades. Apprenticeships were offered in a wide range of technical fields. Usually around age 14, youngsters chose to either enter a trade-related training program or to continue an academic career. In this country, trades are frowned upon as being some kind of lower class profession. I don't know...what does your plumber make?

Ones that get into the Unions and get jobs at companies can make good money.

They can make a lot of money in a union, but still make good money without. I took night classes for a year to be a welder in retirement. Average pay is more than enough to meet my needs in retirement. I plan on having my own business, but it's nice to know I have an employable skill if necessary.

The Pay Scale for Certified Welding
The state with the most welders is Texas, where the average annual wage is $37,550. Again, this is closer to the average for the profession as a whole. For the top five states in terms of number of welders, the annual mean wage ranges from $37,530 to $42,020 per year.

I wish I could "winner" you a dozen times over!
Certified welders are a premium profession, demanding pretty much what they want. I only wish I could encourage my partner to obtain his certs. The guy is a top notch welder but doesn't think he can make the test.

 

[Lewdog]

There are two sides to the "Free College" coin. Americans like to embrace the "free" side, but the "college" side - not so much.

Because we have universally adopted the ridiculous notion that a college education should be available for anyone who wants one. Consequently, our colleges cater to millions of young "adults" who are, to put it bluntly, "not college material." They teach remedial courses, their level of academic rigor is a joke, and most of the offered college majors are irrelevant, worthless nonsense. Ethnic studies? Are you kidding me?

Germany has "free" universities, but the requirements for admission are rigorous, and not subject to distortion based on race, gender, or other extraneous factors.

I would wholeheartedly support "free" college at state schools for the top 20% of 18-year-olds, based on QUANTITATIVE criteria - mainly objective test scores. For the other 80%, they would be free to go anywhere they could afford to go - at their own expense, with no government loans or subsidies.

And I submit that diplomas from such state colleges would be quite valuable, as employers would know that the students are all top-notch, and the coursework is no nonsense.

But of course, excellence in education is a fantastical pipe dream as long as Lefties control Academe. They would insist on "diversity" in the "free" state universities, which would in-turn require watered-down course work, bullshit majors, and we would be no better off than we are now.

When I lived in Germany, they also provided opportunities for those "not college material" young people who preferred to pursue the trades. Apprenticeships were offered in a wide range of technical fields. Usually around age 14, youngsters chose to either enter a trade-related training program or to continue an academic career. In this country, trades are frowned upon as being some kind of lower class profession. I don't know...what does your plumber make?

Ones that get into the Unions and get jobs at companies can make good money.

They can make a lot of money in a union, but still make good money without. I took night classes for a year to be a welder in retirement. Average pay is more than enough to meet my needs in retirement. I plan on having my own business, but it's nice to know I have an employable skill if necessary.

The Pay Scale for Certified Welding
The state with the most welders is Texas, where the average annual wage is $37,550. Again, this is closer to the average for the profession as a whole. For the top five states in terms of number of welders, the annual mean wage ranges from $37,530 to $42,020 per year.

I talked to someone once that said the best places to make money welding is working on ships, or on oil rigs.

 

[Lewdog]

Just to possibly make this thread worthwhile, does anyone know a site that has a data base of scholarships that people can put in their information and see what they are eligible for?

 

[Divine Wind]

There are two sides to the "Free College" coin. Americans like to embrace the "free" side, but the "college" side - not so much.

Because we have universally adopted the ridiculous notion that a college education should be available for anyone who wants one. Consequently, our colleges cater to millions of young "adults" who are, to put it bluntly, "not college material." They teach remedial courses, their level of academic rigor is a joke, and most of the offered college majors are irrelevant, worthless nonsense. Ethnic studies? Are you kidding me?

Germany has "free" universities, but the requirements for admission are rigorous, and not subject to distortion based on race, gender, or other extraneous factors.

I would wholeheartedly support "free" college at state schools for the top 20% of 18-year-olds, based on QUANTITATIVE criteria - mainly objective test scores. For the other 80%, they would be free to go anywhere they could afford to go - at their own expense, with no government loans or subsidies.

And I submit that diplomas from such state colleges would be quite valuable, as employers would know that the students are all top-notch, and the coursework is no nonsense.

But of course, excellence in education is a fantastical pipe dream as long as Lefties control Academe. They would insist on "diversity" in the "free" state universities, which would in-turn require watered-down course work, bullshit majors, and we would be no better off than we are now.

When I lived in Germany, they also provided opportunities for those "not college material" young people who preferred to pursue the trades. Apprenticeships were offered in a wide range of technical fields. Usually around age 14, youngsters chose to either enter a trade-related training program or to continue an academic career. In this country, trades are frowned upon as being some kind of lower class profession. I don't know...what does your plumber make?

Ones that get into the Unions and get jobs at companies can make good money.

They can make a lot of money in a union, but still make good money without. I took night classes for a year to be a welder in retirement. Average pay is more than enough to meet my needs in retirement. I plan on having my own business, but it's nice to know I have an employable skill if necessary.

The Pay Scale for Certified Welding
The state with the most welders is Texas, where the average annual wage is $37,550. Again, this is closer to the average for the profession as a whole. For the top five states in terms of number of welders, the annual mean wage ranges from $37,530 to $42,020 per year.

I wish I could "winner" you a dozen times over!
Certified welders are a premium profession, demanding pretty much what they want. I only wish I could encourage my partner to obtain his certs. The guy is a top notch welder but doesn't think he can make the test.

He must have a little test-itis because the test, a practical, is straightforward. The last time I checked, it was $300 for the test. If someone didn't pass, they didn't have to pay again, just practice up and try again another time.

 

[Unkotare]

That isn't telling me how. I said that whoever, probably like you, is a slave of the jews. The "proof" I gave didn't seem to be good enough for you. How few jews do you think there need to be in the U.S. to make anti-semitism a non-issue. 1/4 of 1%?

Maybe you shouldn't have dropped out of high school, eh?

Unlike "chosen of god" jews or negroes dating white girls, I have nothing to prove. If I told you what I have done, you would be amazed. Even as a high school dropout, you are a worm compared to me. Apart from the first thing I mentioned, in the near future you are going to be hearing something so great that it will make you drop to your knees in disbelief. I want you to remember this. Because when that happens, I want you to keep in mind that it was I who did it. But before you do so, don't bother asking me for details.

 

[Unkotare]

Many free online courses are available thru top universities. Community college is nearly free for low income students, and dirt cheap for everyone else (in California).

The internet has opened up tons of opportunity for information sharing and self learning. Imagine using virtual reality to simulate a classroom experience with a 'room' full of avatar classmates.

Universities are centers of learning. But, learning has no center in the digital age. Information is everywhere. It's merely cultural lag and centralized accreditation authority that maintain the current model of higher education. Too many cheaper alternatives exist, so the model is ripe for disruption.

Politicians try to solve yesterday's problems. We don't need to save universities or make the current dinosaur 'affordable'. We need to create the education system of tomorrow

In the realm of classrooms with students in them, I think we should stick with what works. I have also seen that some classes are starting to use an interesting technology. Each student is basically given an electronic clicker. If a professor says something that a student didn't quite understand, he presses the clicker. There is no being singled out as a dummy by raising your hand to ask the teacher something. The teacher just explains what he just did again.

.......

And now we know one reason why you dropped out, dummy.

 

[Unkotare]

That isn't telling me how. I said that whoever, probably like you, is a slave of the jews. The "proof" I gave didn't seem to be good enough for you. How few jews do you think there need to be in the U.S. to make anti-semitism a non-issue. 1/4 of 1%?

Maybe you shouldn't have dropped out of high school, eh?

Maybe it was strongly suggested to him.

 

[Divine Wind]

That isn't telling me how. I said that whoever, probably like you, is a slave of the jews. The "proof" I gave didn't seem to be good enough for you. How few jews do you think there need to be in the U.S. to make anti-semitism a non-issue. 1/4 of 1%?

Maybe you shouldn't have dropped out of high school, eh?

Maybe it was strongly suggested to him.

Straight F's and a counselor who suggests digging ditches for a living would do that.

 

[Unkotare]

...... Different creatures just don't like being around each other. ....

Humans are the same creatures.

 

[Unkotare]

That isn't telling me how. I said that whoever, probably like you, is a slave of the jews. The "proof" I gave didn't seem to be good enough for you. How few jews do you think there need to be in the U.S. to make anti-semitism a non-issue. 1/4 of 1%?

Maybe you shouldn't have dropped out of high school, eh?

Maybe it was strongly suggested to him.

Straight F's and a counselor who suggests digging ditches for a living would do that.

"From what I've heard" that sounds highly plausible.

 

[Divine Wind]

"From what I've heard" that sounds highly plausible.

Heard in a crack house? LOL

 

[Divine Wind]

"Trade" unions here might get better pay and benefits for their members, but at what cost? My experience is that the union is in bed with the employer, the workers get some token concession, and the union and employer make out like big dogs.

What union were you in?

 

[krypto]

....If I told you what I have done, you would be amazed...

Amazed? Doubtful. Since you know nothing about me nor my history, your braggadocio is most like a cry for attention and a pitiful attempt to come off as successful at something.

I don't care if you believe me or not.

 

[krypto]

That isn't telling me how. I said that whoever, probably like you, is a slave of the jews. The "proof" I gave didn't seem to be good enough for you. How few jews do you think there need to be in the U.S. to make anti-semitism a non-issue. 1/4 of 1%?

Maybe you shouldn't have dropped out of high school, eh?

Unlike "chosen of god" jews or negroes dating white girls, I have nothing to prove. If I told you what I have done, you would be amazed. Even as a high school dropout, you are a worm compared to me. Apart from the first thing I mentioned, in the near future you are going to be hearing something so great that it will make you drop to your knees in disbelief. I want you to remember this. Because when that happens, I want you to keep in mind that it was I who did it. But before you do so, don't bother asking me for details.

Uhm, someone already blew up a federal building using fertilizer... so don't do that.

Agreed. krypto don't shoot any people either, even if you think they are ""chosen of god" jews or negroes dating white girls".

I'm not about to basically kamakazie myself like the hero Dylann Roof. You fools aren't worth it.

 

[krypto]

There are two sides to the "Free College" coin. Americans like to embrace the "free" side, but the "college" side - not so much.

Because we have universally adopted the ridiculous notion that a college education should be available for anyone who wants one. Consequently, our colleges cater to millions of young "adults" who are, to put it bluntly, "not college material." They teach remedial courses, their level of academic rigor is a joke, and most of the offered college majors are irrelevant, worthless nonsense. Ethnic studies? Are you kidding me?

Germany has "free" universities, but the requirements for admission are rigorous, and not subject to distortion based on race, gender, or other extraneous factors.

I would wholeheartedly support "free" college at state schools for the top 20% of 18-year-olds, based on QUANTITATIVE criteria - mainly objective test scores. For the other 80%, they would be free to go anywhere they could afford to go - at their own expense, with no government loans or subsidies.

And I submit that diplomas from such state colleges would be quite valuable, as employers would know that the students are all top-notch, and the coursework is no nonsense.

But of course, excellence in education is a fantastical pipe dream as long as Lefties control Academe. They would insist on "diversity" in the "free" state universities, which would in-turn require watered-down course work, bullshit majors, and we would be no better off than we are now.

When I lived in Germany, they also provided opportunities for those "not college material" young people who preferred to pursue the trades. Apprenticeships were offered in a wide range of technical fields. Usually around age 14, youngsters chose to either enter a trade-related training program or to continue an academic career. In this country, trades are frowned upon as being some kind of lower class profession. I don't know...what does your plumber make?

Ones that get into the Unions and get jobs at companies can make good money.

Unions? What unions. Sending our jobs overseas is like union busting on steroids. So are overpopulating illegal invader scab scum from south of the border. Who are desperate enough to work for just about any wage.

 

[krypto]

In addition to being a Realtor and real estate instructor, I am also a professional speaker and am on a number of speaker bureaus.

I say that only because what I have found, without exception, is that any training or education courses offered for free are poorly attended or the participants pay only token attention.

Charging for the course or seminar, even a nominal, reasonable amount increases attendance along with participation and attention.

Which brings me to the difference between the results in American colleges and universities and those in countries with free everything. Take medicine, for instance, our four top research hospitals alone have discovered more new drugs, procedures, and technology than any half dozen or more countries with free college and free healthcare.
,

Maybe there would be the same scientific discovery rate here if we had free college and free health care. After all, The U.S. is a large country, rich with natural resources and arable land. I think we should find out. And if things didn't work out, I would still rather see a slight hit taken to the scientific discovery rate as long as it meant free college and health care. There is no doubt that greed drives things a lot. And you can wave the flag of greed all you want to. I will still support morality.

 

[krypto]

Ones that get into the Unions and get jobs at companies can make good money.

As you know, unions have destroyed more jobs and industry, by far, than they created.

Unions also mostly put an end, at least in the U.S., to child labor. They also helped people get a livable wage, 8 hour work days, weekends off and safer working conditions. But thanks to the union busting on steriods that sending jobs overseas is, along with cheap disposable illegal invader labor, many Americans have to work harder and longer for less compensation that most of, if not all of the other developed countries.

 

[krypto]

There are two sides to the "Free College" coin. Americans like to embrace the "free" side, but the "college" side - not so much.

Because we have universally adopted the ridiculous notion that a college education should be available for anyone who wants one. Consequently, our colleges cater to millions of young "adults" who are, to put it bluntly, "not college material." They teach remedial courses, their level of academic rigor is a joke, and most of the offered college majors are irrelevant, worthless nonsense. Ethnic studies? Are you kidding me?

Germany has "free" universities, but the requirements for admission are rigorous, and not subject to distortion based on race, gender, or other extraneous factors.

I would wholeheartedly support "free" college at state schools for the top 20% of 18-year-olds, based on QUANTITATIVE criteria - mainly objective test scores. For the other 80%, they would be free to go anywhere they could afford to go - at their own expense, with no government loans or subsidies.

And I submit that diplomas from such state colleges would be quite valuable, as employers would know that the students are all top-notch, and the coursework is no nonsense.

But of course, excellence in education is a fantastical pipe dream as long as Lefties control Academe. They would insist on "diversity" in the "free" state universities, which would in-turn require watered-down course work, bullshit majors, and we would be no better off than we are now.

When I lived in Germany, they also provided opportunities for those "not college material" young people who preferred to pursue the trades. Apprenticeships were offered in a wide range of technical fields. Usually around age 14, youngsters chose to either enter a trade-related training program or to continue an academic career. In this country, trades are frowned upon as being some kind of lower class profession. I don't know...what does your plumber make?

Ones that get into the Unions and get jobs at companies can make good money.

Trade unions in Germany are NOT the same as the "trades" here. Trade unions in Europe still represent the tradesmen, unlike here, where unions are primarily focused on enriching those who "administer" the trade unions.

Yes. Here in the U.S., unions are usually run by gangsters.

 

[krypto]

...... Different creatures just don't like being around each other. ....

Humans are the same creatures.

No, they're not. What are usually referred to as "races" are in fact different species of human.

 

[Divine Wind]

I don't care if you believe me or not.

Good, because I don't believe you. You're a racist, anti-Semitic high school dropout angry at the world because you weren't handed a silver spoon to feed on.