College Should Be Free! (For Americans)

[krypto]

In the realm of classrooms with students in them, I think we should stick with what works. I have also seen that some classes are starting to use an interesting technology. Each student is basically given an electronic clicker. If a professor says something that a student didn't quite understand, he presses the clicker. There is no being singled out as a dummy by raising your hand to ask the teacher something. The teacher just explains what he just did again.

Also, if it changes very drastically, the "education system of tomorrow" is likely to be what it was in the past. What Benjamin Franklin had to endure. Indentured servitude. As an indentured apprentice. I hear that on the job training works pretty well. And from what I also hear, by the time students graduate, they forget 90% of what they learned. It's no wonder that tests are usually those multiple guess tests.

Better to just kick out all the dumbasses and let the smart kids get back to learning. The dumbasses can start immediately training in the minimum wage, paper hat job they'll have for life.

Yes. You can thank Bill Clinton for that. Because just as Ross Perot predicted, there was a huge sucking sound heard as jobs left America. Leaving many Americans in tou new "service based" economy nothing better to do than flip each other's burgers. Let me guess. You think that having a healthy middle class is a bunch of horse shit too. And no doubt because you think those who were in it weren't working hard enough for it.

 

[Treeshepherd]

Many free online courses are available thru top universities. Community college is nearly free for low income students, and dirt cheap for everyone else (in California).

The internet has opened up tons of opportunity for information sharing and self learning. Imagine using virtual reality to simulate a classroom experience with a 'room' full of avatar classmates.

Universities are centers of learning. But, learning has no center in the digital age. Information is everywhere. It's merely cultural lag and centralized accreditation authority that maintain the current model of higher education. Too many cheaper alternatives exist, so the model is ripe for disruption.

Politicians try to solve yesterday's problems. We don't need to save universities or make the current dinosaur 'affordable'. We need to create the education system of tomorrow

In the realm of classrooms with students in them, I think we should stick with what works. I have also seen that some classes are starting to use an interesting technology. Each student is basically given an electronic clicker. If a professor says something that a student didn't quite understand, he presses the clicker. There is no being singled out as a dummy by raising your hand to ask the teacher something. The teacher just explains what he just did again.

Also, if it changes very drastically, the "education system of tomorrow" is likely to be what it was in the past. What Benjamin Franklin had to endure. Indentured servitude. As an indentured apprentice. I hear that on the job training works pretty well. And from what I also hear, by the time students graduate, they forget 90% of what they learned. It's no wonder that tests are usually those multiple guess tests.

In the days of Ben Franklin most people were educated by mentors or personal tutors. The same may be true in the future, except each student would have multiple mentors from all over the world on specialized topics

 

[Divine Wind]

Yes. You can thank Bill Clinton for that. Because just as Ross Perot predicted, there was a huge sucking sound heard as jobs left America. Leaving many Americans in tou new "service based" economy nothing better to do than flip each other's burgers. Let me guess. You think that having a healthy middle class is a bunch of horse shit too. And no doubt because you think those who were in it weren't working hard enough for it.

Wow. Hit a nerve did I? So you blame your lack of middle class income on the government and not your own lack of education and ambition? You're the one who claimed to have dropped out of high school. Did you ever earn a GED? Did you ever take night classes at a community college?

 

[krypto]

That isn't telling me how. I said that whoever, probably like you, is a slave of the jews. The "proof" I gave didn't seem to be good enough for you. How few jews do you think there need to be in the U.S. to make anti-semitism a non-issue. 1/4 of 1%?

Maybe you shouldn't have dropped out of high school, eh?

Unlike "chosen of god" jews or negroes dating white girls, I have nothing to prove. If I told you what I have done, you would be amazed. Even as a high school dropout, you are a worm compared to me. Apart from the first thing I mentioned, in the near future you are going to be hearing something so great that it will make you drop to your knees in disbelief. I want you to remember this. Because when that happens, I want you to keep in mind that it was I who did it. But before you do so, don't bother asking me for details.

 

[krypto]

Strange. You call me names. But you have yet to refute anything I said. I wonder who that makes the real idiot.

Scroll up and read again.

I don't care what TR said. You should concentrate on what I say.

 

[krypto]

Yes. You can thank Bill Clinton for that. Because just as Ross Perot predicted, there was a huge sucking sound heard as jobs left America. Leaving many Americans in tou new "service based" economy nothing better to do than flip each other's burgers. Let me guess. You think that having a healthy middle class is a bunch of horse shit too. And no doubt because you think those who were in it weren't working hard enough for it.

Wow. Hit a nerve did I? So you blame your lack of middle class income on the government and not your own lack of education and ambition? You're the one who claimed to have dropped out of high school. Did you ever earn a GED? Did you ever take night classes at a community college?

What I said wasn't about me. If I wasn't even born, those things would have still happened.

 

[Lewdog]

That isn't telling me how. I said that whoever, probably like you, is a slave of the jews. The "proof" I gave didn't seem to be good enough for you. How few jews do you think there need to be in the U.S. to make anti-semitism a non-issue. 1/4 of 1%?

Maybe you shouldn't have dropped out of high school, eh?

Unlike "chosen of god" jews or negroes dating white girls, I have nothing to prove. If I told you what I have done, you would be amazed. Even as a high school dropout, you are a worm compared to me. Apart from the first thing I mentioned, in the near future you are going to be hearing something so great that it will make you drop to your knees in disbelief. I want you to remember this. Because when that happens, I want you to keep in mind that it was I who did it. But before you do so, don't bother asking me for details.

Uhm, someone already blew up a federal building using fertilizer... so don't do that.

 

[krypto]

That isn't telling me how. I said that whoever, probably like you, is a slave of the jews. The "proof" I gave didn't seem to be good enough for you. How few jews do you think there need to be in the U.S. to make anti-semitism a non-issue. 1/4 of 1%?

Maybe you shouldn't have dropped out of high school, eh?

Unlike "chosen of god" jews or negroes dating white girls, I have nothing to prove. If I told you what I have done, you would be amazed. Even as a high school dropout, you are a worm compared to me. Apart from the first thing I mentioned, in the near future you are going to be hearing something so great that it will make you drop to your knees in disbelief. I want you to remember this. Because when that happens, I want you to keep in mind that it was I who did it. But before you do so, don't bother asking me for details.

Uhm, someone already blew up a federal building using fertilizer... so don't do that.

I wasn't talking about any sort of bad or destructive thing.

 

[Divine Wind]

....If I told you what I have done, you would be amazed...

Amazed? Doubtful. Since you know nothing about me nor my history, your braggadocio is most like a cry for attention and a pitiful attempt to come off as successful at something.

 

[Divine Wind]

That isn't telling me how. I said that whoever, probably like you, is a slave of the jews. The "proof" I gave didn't seem to be good enough for you. How few jews do you think there need to be in the U.S. to make anti-semitism a non-issue. 1/4 of 1%?

Maybe you shouldn't have dropped out of high school, eh?

Unlike "chosen of god" jews or negroes dating white girls, I have nothing to prove. If I told you what I have done, you would be amazed. Even as a high school dropout, you are a worm compared to me. Apart from the first thing I mentioned, in the near future you are going to be hearing something so great that it will make you drop to your knees in disbelief. I want you to remember this. Because when that happens, I want you to keep in mind that it was I who did it. But before you do so, don't bother asking me for details.

Uhm, someone already blew up a federal building using fertilizer... so don't do that.

Agreed. krypto don't shoot any people either, even if you think they are ""chosen of god" jews or negroes dating white girls".

 

[Markle]

If they can't find jobs in their chosen fields they can teach at one of those "free" colleges. See ... problem solved.

Those who can, do ... those who can't, teach.

What about those who do both extremely well?

 

[gallantwarrior]

There are two sides to the "Free College" coin. Americans like to embrace the "free" side, but the "college" side - not so much.

Because we have universally adopted the ridiculous notion that a college education should be available for anyone who wants one. Consequently, our colleges cater to millions of young "adults" who are, to put it bluntly, "not college material." They teach remedial courses, their level of academic rigor is a joke, and most of the offered college majors are irrelevant, worthless nonsense. Ethnic studies? Are you kidding me?

Germany has "free" universities, but the requirements for admission are rigorous, and not subject to distortion based on race, gender, or other extraneous factors.

I would wholeheartedly support "free" college at state schools for the top 20% of 18-year-olds, based on QUANTITATIVE criteria - mainly objective test scores. For the other 80%, they would be free to go anywhere they could afford to go - at their own expense, with no government loans or subsidies.

And I submit that diplomas from such state colleges would be quite valuable, as employers would know that the students are all top-notch, and the coursework is no nonsense.

But of course, excellence in education is a fantastical pipe dream as long as Lefties control Academe. They would insist on "diversity" in the "free" state universities, which would in-turn require watered-down course work, bullshit majors, and we would be no better off than we are now.

When I lived in Germany, they also provided opportunities for those "not college material" young people who preferred to pursue the trades. Apprenticeships were offered in a wide range of technical fields. Usually around age 14, youngsters chose to either enter a trade-related training program or to continue an academic career. In this country, trades are frowned upon as being some kind of lower class profession. I don't know...what does your plumber make?

 

[Lewdog]

There are two sides to the "Free College" coin. Americans like to embrace the "free" side, but the "college" side - not so much.

Because we have universally adopted the ridiculous notion that a college education should be available for anyone who wants one. Consequently, our colleges cater to millions of young "adults" who are, to put it bluntly, "not college material." They teach remedial courses, their level of academic rigor is a joke, and most of the offered college majors are irrelevant, worthless nonsense. Ethnic studies? Are you kidding me?

Germany has "free" universities, but the requirements for admission are rigorous, and not subject to distortion based on race, gender, or other extraneous factors.

I would wholeheartedly support "free" college at state schools for the top 20% of 18-year-olds, based on QUANTITATIVE criteria - mainly objective test scores. For the other 80%, they would be free to go anywhere they could afford to go - at their own expense, with no government loans or subsidies.

And I submit that diplomas from such state colleges would be quite valuable, as employers would know that the students are all top-notch, and the coursework is no nonsense.

But of course, excellence in education is a fantastical pipe dream as long as Lefties control Academe. They would insist on "diversity" in the "free" state universities, which would in-turn require watered-down course work, bullshit majors, and we would be no better off than we are now.

When I lived in Germany, they also provided opportunities for those "not college material" young people who preferred to pursue the trades. Apprenticeships were offered in a wide range of technical fields. Usually around age 14, youngsters chose to either enter a trade-related training program or to continue an academic career. In this country, trades are frowned upon as being some kind of lower class profession. I don't know...what does your plumber make?

Ones that get into the Unions and get jobs at companies can make good money.

 

[Markle]

In addition to being a Realtor and real estate instructor, I am also a professional speaker and am on a number of speaker bureaus.

I say that only because what I have found, without exception, is that any training or education courses offered for free are poorly attended or the participants pay only token attention.

Charging for the course or seminar, even a nominal, reasonable amount increases attendance along with participation and attention.

Which brings me to the difference between the results in American colleges and universities and those in countries with free everything. Take medicine, for instance, our four top research hospitals alone have discovered more new drugs, procedures, and technology than any half dozen or more countries with free college and free healthcare.
,

 

[Markle]

Ones that get into the Unions and get jobs at companies can make good money.

As you know, unions have destroyed more jobs and industry, by far, than they created.

 

[Lewdog]

Ones that get into the Unions and get jobs at companies can make good money.

As you know, unions have destroyed more jobs and industry, by far, than they created.

I don't like unions either, BUT they help you to get better pay.

 

[gallantwarrior]

There are two sides to the "Free College" coin. Americans like to embrace the "free" side, but the "college" side - not so much.

Because we have universally adopted the ridiculous notion that a college education should be available for anyone who wants one. Consequently, our colleges cater to millions of young "adults" who are, to put it bluntly, "not college material." They teach remedial courses, their level of academic rigor is a joke, and most of the offered college majors are irrelevant, worthless nonsense. Ethnic studies? Are you kidding me?

Germany has "free" universities, but the requirements for admission are rigorous, and not subject to distortion based on race, gender, or other extraneous factors.

I would wholeheartedly support "free" college at state schools for the top 20% of 18-year-olds, based on QUANTITATIVE criteria - mainly objective test scores. For the other 80%, they would be free to go anywhere they could afford to go - at their own expense, with no government loans or subsidies.

And I submit that diplomas from such state colleges would be quite valuable, as employers would know that the students are all top-notch, and the coursework is no nonsense.

But of course, excellence in education is a fantastical pipe dream as long as Lefties control Academe. They would insist on "diversity" in the "free" state universities, which would in-turn require watered-down course work, bullshit majors, and we would be no better off than we are now.

When I lived in Germany, they also provided opportunities for those "not college material" young people who preferred to pursue the trades. Apprenticeships were offered in a wide range of technical fields. Usually around age 14, youngsters chose to either enter a trade-related training program or to continue an academic career. In this country, trades are frowned upon as being some kind of lower class profession. I don't know...what does your plumber make?

Ones that get into the Unions and get jobs at companies can make good money.

Trade unions in Germany are NOT the same as the "trades" here. Trade unions in Europe still represent the tradesmen, unlike here, where unions are primarily focused on enriching those who "administer" the trade unions.

 

[gallantwarrior]

Ones that get into the Unions and get jobs at companies can make good money.

As you know, unions have destroyed more jobs and industry, by far, than they created.

I don't like unions either, BUT they help you to get better pay.

"Trade" unions here might get better pay and benefits for their members, but at what cost? My experience is that the union is in bed with the employer, the workers get some token concession, and the union and employer make out like big dogs.

 

[gallantwarrior]

I have managed to negotiate quite satisfactory compensation, including raises, with my current (non-union) employer. I have done this by improving my value through training and accepting increased responsibility. Imagine that! I do more, I know more, I get paid more! Damned!

 

[Divine Wind]

There are two sides to the "Free College" coin. Americans like to embrace the "free" side, but the "college" side - not so much.

Because we have universally adopted the ridiculous notion that a college education should be available for anyone who wants one. Consequently, our colleges cater to millions of young "adults" who are, to put it bluntly, "not college material." They teach remedial courses, their level of academic rigor is a joke, and most of the offered college majors are irrelevant, worthless nonsense. Ethnic studies? Are you kidding me?

Germany has "free" universities, but the requirements for admission are rigorous, and not subject to distortion based on race, gender, or other extraneous factors.

I would wholeheartedly support "free" college at state schools for the top 20% of 18-year-olds, based on QUANTITATIVE criteria - mainly objective test scores. For the other 80%, they would be free to go anywhere they could afford to go - at their own expense, with no government loans or subsidies.

And I submit that diplomas from such state colleges would be quite valuable, as employers would know that the students are all top-notch, and the coursework is no nonsense.

But of course, excellence in education is a fantastical pipe dream as long as Lefties control Academe. They would insist on "diversity" in the "free" state universities, which would in-turn require watered-down course work, bullshit majors, and we would be no better off than we are now.

When I lived in Germany, they also provided opportunities for those "not college material" young people who preferred to pursue the trades. Apprenticeships were offered in a wide range of technical fields. Usually around age 14, youngsters chose to either enter a trade-related training program or to continue an academic career. In this country, trades are frowned upon as being some kind of lower class profession. I don't know...what does your plumber make?

Ones that get into the Unions and get jobs at companies can make good money.

They can make a lot of money in a union, but still make good money without. I took night classes for a year to be a welder in retirement. Average pay is more than enough to meet my needs in retirement. I plan on having my own business, but it's nice to know I have an employable skill if necessary.

The Pay Scale for Certified Welding
The state with the most welders is Texas, where the average annual wage is $37,550. Again, this is closer to the average for the profession as a whole. For the top five states in terms of number of welders, the annual mean wage ranges from $37,530 to $42,020 per year.