Closure of Al-Aqsa mosque for first time by IOF terrorists

[USAF 2023]

Boy oh boy - you really are a confused soul.

The STATE of Israel:

• Restrictions on Access to Holy Sites: Israeli authorities frequently restrict access to the Al-Aqsa Mosque (Muslim) and the Church of the Holy Sepulchre (Christian) during holidays or times of tension, citing security concerns. These restrictions have been condemned by several nations as violations of the status quo and international law.
• Proposed Legislation: A bill was proposed in the Knesset to ban missionary work, which, if passed, would have heavily impacted Christian proselytizing activities.
• Humanitarian Organization Restrictions: Israel has been accused of restricting or banning some Christian humanitarian aid organizations from operating in Gaza.
• Attacks and Vandalism: Church leaders in Jerusalem have reported an increase in harassment of clergy and vandalism of religious property by Jewish extremists

I wasn't aware that the NYPD is the owner of St.Patrick's Cathedral - you really seem to know a lot!

And YES - the US State and it's Federation states have the RIGHT to stop construction of a Religious House if deemed a national security risk. Independent if the owners/builders are born in the USA nor not.
E.g. a Mosque or Synagogue that is known to belong to a hate preaching religious group or a respective priest.

Bibi ordered his subordinate TACO, to even pass laws that make pro-Palestinian organizations to be deemed illegal.

Falsely Labeling pro Palestinian Activists as Pro-Jihadist: The TACO administration has labeled pro-Palestinian protesters "Hamas sympathizers" and "pro-jihadist," using these designations to initiate investigations and, in some cases, detention and deportation proceedings against students and activists.

Boy oh boy - you really are a confused soul.

The STATE of Israel:

• Restrictions on Access to Holy Sites: Israeli authorities frequently restrict access to the Al-Aqsa Mosque (Muslim) and the Church of the Holy Sepulchre (Christian) during holidays or times of tension, citing security concerns. These restrictions have been condemned by several nations as violations of the status quo and international law.
• Proposed Legislation: A bill was proposed in the Knesset to ban missionary work, which, if passed, would have heavily impacted Christian proselytizing activities.
• Humanitarian Organization Restrictions: Israel has been accused of restricting or banning some Christian humanitarian aid organizations from operating in Gaza.
• Attacks and Vandalism: Church leaders in Jerusalem have reported an increase in harassment of clergy and vandalism of religious property by Jewish extremists

I wasn't aware that the NYPD is the owner of St.Patrick's Cathedral - you really seem to know a lot!

And YES - the US State and it's Federation states have the RIGHT to stop construction of a Religious House if deemed a national security risk. Independent if the owners/builders are born in the USA nor not.
E.g. a Mosque or Synagogue that is known to belong to a hate preaching religious group or a respective priest.

Bibi ordered his subordinate TACO, to even pass laws that make pro-Palestinian organizations to be deemed illegal.

Falsely Labeling pro Palestinian Activists as Pro-Jihadist: The TACO administration has labeled pro-Palestinian protesters "Hamas sympathizers" and "pro-jihadist," using these designations to initiate investigations and, in some cases, detention and deportation proceedings against students and activists.

Israel restrictions on Holy Sites is actually funny even though you see NOTHING wrong with what Jordan did, Your lame excuse? Israel doesn’t own them So we can prevent people from Canada or Mexico from entering our religious sites
You are a Fool. What would be wrong then with the NYPD following orders to forbid people not born here from entering
Please tell us what Religious sites the US Government stopped I would love to know what “ religious property “ was vandalized and what precedent it IF anything was
You can’t figure out why Christians proselytizing their Religion is Forbidden yet in Islamic Countries they’re killed daily. You are a Hypocrite, You can’t figure out why Pro Palestine organizations are forbidden Might that cause more clashed then there already there? NAH They should have Pro Palestinian organizations when the Palestinians have Pro Israel ones

 

[Shusha]

Peculiar??? - the term "holy site", does NOT implicate a property belonging to a religious group. That is a straight forward definition by international law, and not something "peculiar".

You were the one claiming "ownership". Now you are agreeing with me that "holy sites" are not individually owned property belonging to a specific religious group. We agree that you misspoke.

Therefore the access of such a site is regulated via it's territorial (owner)

Sovereign, not owner. But close enough. Access to the site is regulated via:
1. the exercise of sovereignty, political independence, territorial integrity of the state in whose territory the holy site is situated (Israel).
2. treaty agreements between States
3. norms of international humanitarian law such as principles of non-discrimination and freedom of worship

, in the above 1967 example, via the State of Jordan.

The State of Jordan never had any legal right to sovereignty over any territory in the former Mandate of Palestine outside the boundaries of their sovereign territory as outlined in the Mandate. The State of Jordan's right to administer the Temple Mount, in terms of religious activities, originates with formal (though non-binding) declarations by Israel and treaties (binding, but explicitly not more than an undefined "special role".)

The 1994 Jordan-Israel Peace-Treaty, stated both sides committed to ensuring freedom of access to sites of religious significance.!!!

Yes. Both sides are to ensure access for people of all religious faiths. Israel maintains security control. Why are you arguing with me over something we both agree on?

...and then having the audacity to declare Jerusalem's holy Muslim sites off limits due to security issues.

Jerusalem's holy sites are not exclusively Muslim. The Temple Mount certainly not. And yes, every state has a right to ensure security within its territory. Basic international law.

Get it into your brick-head, that the city State of Israel ceased to exist 2500 years ago. Having been conquered 500 years before from non-Hebrews.

And was re-established in 1948.

Zionists had by international law, no right to claim Arab Lands under the British Mandate, especially NOT via claiming a holy place of worship in that region to be their property.

There is no such thing as "Arab lands" in international law. It was the sovereign territory of the Ottoman Empire. On the dissolution of the Ottoman Empire, the lands don't retain some magical aspect of "Arabness" in which "Arab lands" can only be under the sovereignty of Arabs. The Ottoman Empire ceded the territory to the Mandate for the self-determination of the peoples living there. The Mandate recognized the self-determination of the Arab peoples, and the self-determination of the Jewish people.

The Jewish people also have an absolute right to claim Jewish historical and holy sites as Jewish historical and holy sites. (Which does not preclude Muslim claim to those sites as well. Though, for clarity, my position is that usurping another faith's holy sites is an egregious violation.)

 

[Shusha]

You can’t figure out why Christians proselytizing their Religion is Forbidden yet in Islamic Countries they’re killed daily. You are a Hypocrite,

The level of hypocrisy is astounding. Dozens of countries restrict religious proselytizing, yet no one cares or complains.

 

[Kruska]

You were the one claiming "ownership".

No, I was the one who REFUTED that Jews who claim a holy site to be solely theirs, have any right to demand access to a property that is in ones other territory. Read back on the thread.

 

[Shusha]

No, I was the one who REFUTED that Jews who claim a holy site to be solely theirs, have any right to demand access to a property that is in ones other territory. Read back on the thread.

You are incoherent. According to the peace treaty between the State of Israel and the Hashemite Kingdom of Jordan, the Temple Mount is within Israeli sovereign territory (without prejudice to further treaty agreements).

Edited to add: And regardless, no matter the sovereignty of the territory upon which the Temple Mount stands, as you correctly pointed out, BOTH states have agreed to allow freedom of worship to all faiths. There is no place here for "Muslim-only".

 

[Kruska]

You are incoherent. According to the peace treaty between the State of Israel and the Hashemite Kingdom of Jordan, the Temple Mount is within Israeli sovereign territory (without prejudice to further treaty agreements).

Edited to add: And regardless, no matter the sovereignty of the territory upon which the Temple Mount stands, as you correctly pointed out, BOTH states have agreed to allow freedom of worship to all faiths. There is no place here for "Muslim-only".

You are very confused, as usual.

Who stated anything about "Muslims only"??

 

[USAF 2023]

You were the one claiming "ownership". Now you are agreeing with me that "holy sites" are not individually owned property belonging to a specific religious group. We agree that you misspoke.
Again he”’ extremely stupid Israel never claimed they “ owned” those Sites or had Sovereignty over them . Jordan did though
Sovereign, not owner. But close enough. Access to the site is regulated via:
1. the exercise of sovereignty, political independence, territorial integrity of the state in whose territory the holy site is situated (Israel).
2. treaty agreements between States
3. norms of international humanitarian law such as principles of non-discrimination and freedom of worship

The State of Jordan never had any legal right to sovereignty over any territory in the former Mandate of Palestine outside the boundaries of their sovereign territory as outlined in the Mandate. The State of Jordan's right to administer the Temple Mount, in terms of religious activities, originates with formal (though non-binding) declarations by Israel and treaties (binding, but explicitly not more than an undefined "special role".)

Yes. Both sides are to ensure access for people of all religious faiths. Israel maintains security control. Why are you arguing with me over something we both agree on?

Jerusalem's holy sites are not exclusively Muslim. The Temple Mount certainly not. And yes, every state has a right to ensure security within its territory. Basic international law.

And was re-established in 1948.

There is no such thing as "Arab lands" in international law. It was the sovereign territory of the Ottoman Empire. On the dissolution of the Ottoman Empire, the lands don't retain some magical aspect of "Arabness" in which "Arab lands" can only be under the sovereignty of Arabs. The Ottoman Empire ceded the territory to the Mandate for the self-determination of the peoples living there. The Mandate recognized the self-determination of the Arab peoples, and the self-determination of the Jewish people.

The Jewish people also have an absolute right to claim Jewish historical and holy sites as Jewish historical and holy sites. (Which does not preclude Muslim claim to those sites as well. Though, for clarity, my position is that usurping another faith's holy sites is an egregious violation.)

 

[USAF 2023]

Israel restrictions on Holy Sites is actually funny even though you see NOTHING wrong with what Jordan did, Your lame excuse? Israel doesn’t own them So we can prevent people from Canada or Mexico from entering our religious sites
You are a Fool. What would be wrong then with the NYPD following orders to forbid people not born here from entering
Please tell us what Religious sites the US Government stopped I would love to know what “ religious property “ was vandalized and what precedent it IF anything was
You can’t figure out why Christians proselytizing their Religion is Forbidden yet in Islamic Countries they’re killed daily. You are a Hypocrite, You can’t figure out why Pro Palestine organizations are forbidden Might that cause more clashed then there already there? NAH They should have Pro Palestinian organizations when the Palestinians have Pro Israel ones

You are the Confused Soul

You are very confused, as usual.

Who stated anything about "Muslims only"??

Ypu did Actually, not quite. NJA would be a better way you describe it, You are really confused. Try reading your prior posts

 

[Shusha]

You are very confused, as usual.

Who stated anything about "Muslims only"??

So. You agree that the site must be accessible for Muslims, Christians, and Jews. Right? That the right to religious freedom of worship exists for all faiths. Yes?

 

[USAF 2023]

So. You agree that the site must be accessible for Muslims, Christians, and Jews. Right? That the right to religious freedom of worship exists for all faiths. Yes?

No he doesn’t. He’s a liar, in his “ mind’ because those Holy Sites were within Jordan they had the right to “ ownership” Ask where he got the “ idea” that the Jews feel it’s their property and he can’t tell you

 

[Kruska]

So. You agree that the site must be accessible for Muslims, Christians, and Jews. Right? That the right to religious freedom of worship exists for all faiths. Yes?

It depends solely onto the "treaties" and what their content states:

As for present - Israel has therefore no right to bar Muslims from accessing their holy sites. That "security" issue is plain bull - and factually created via the Zionist government supporting illegal Jewish settlers, to constantly kill and occupy Palestinian lands. So to bring in "security issues" is a plain Zionist and laughable farce.
And everyone knows, that the Zionist goal is to control all of Palestine, and to get rid of as many Palestinians as possible.

As for the time of Jordan control: the only treaty that existed was a cease-fire agreement - the territorial dispute was never touched - and Israel until today insists that the ceasefire-line was to their "believe" never a factual territorial border. However the entire West-bank was under Jordan administration and control - therefore e.g. Jews had no legal basis to assert a claim to access holy Jewish sites in Jordan controlled territory. However Christians were allowed to visit their holy sites, simply because Christians had not attacked Palestinians nor stolen their land.

And before you continue your endless nonsense: I had stated many times to YOU, that Jordan never gave a shit about the Palestinian cause - since Jordan viewed upon Palestine as being theirs. Same goes for Syria and Egypt.

 

[USAF 2023]

It depends solely onto the "treaties" and what their content states:

As for present - Israel has therefore no right to bar Muslims from accessing their holy sites. That "security" issue is plain bull - and factually created via the Zionist government supporting illegal Jewish settlers, to constantly kill and occupy Palestinian lands. So to bring in "security issues" is a plain Zionist and laughable farce.
And everyone knows, that the Zionist goal is to control all of Palestine, and to get rid of as many Palestinians as possible.

As for the time of Jordan control: the only treaty that existed was a cease-fire agreement - the territorial dispute was never touched - and Israel until today insists that the ceasefire-line was to their "believe" never a factual territorial border. However the entire West-bank was under Jordan administration and control - therefore e.g. Jews had no legal basis to assert a claim to access holy Jewish sites in Jordan controlled territory. However Christians were allowed to visit their holy sites, simply because Christians had not attacked Palestinians nor stolen their land.

And before you continue your endless nonsense: I had stated many times to YOU, that Jordan never gave a shit about the Palestinian cause - since Jordan viewed upon Palestine as being theirs. Same goes for Syria and Egypt.

Oh..,, Israel has no right but Jordan did? You Lose

 

[gipper]

Oh..,, Israel has no right but Jordan did? You Lose

Don’t you just love it that Israel controls Dumb Don?

 

[Shusha]

As for present - Israel has therefore no right to bar Muslims from accessing their holy sites.

Sure. But in this case, Israel is NOT barring Muslims from access any holy sites. Israel is restricting public gatherings for everyone due to security concerns. You can cry bullshit all you want, but it's rather silly to do so given that the Old City was hit by Iran missiles. Imagine how you could spin it to blame Israel if 10,000 Muslim worshippers were blown to bits along with the Mosque during an Iranian strike.

As for the time of Jordan control: the only treaty that existed was a cease-fire agreement - the territorial dispute was never touched - and Israel until today insists that the ceasefire-line was to their "believe" never a factual territorial border.

Yes. Because it never was a factual border, as evidenced by the 1949 Armistice Agreement. Jordan has recognized Israel within the entirety of her territory (again, without prejudice to future treaty agreements).

However the entire West-bank was under Jordan administration and control

Illegally. Jordan has no legal claim to that territory.

- therefore e.g. Jews had no legal basis to assert a claim to access holy Jewish sites in Jordan controlled territory.

How very double-standards of you. Do you not agree that one should not discriminate based on religion? If Israel is required to permit free access to Muslim holy sites, why would Jordan not be required to permit free access to Jewish holy sites?

 

[USAF 2023]

Sure. But in this case, Israel is NOT barring Muslims from access any holy sites. Israel is restricting public gatherings for everyone due to security concerns. You can cry bullshit all you want, but it's rather silly to do so given that the Old City was hit by Iran missiles. Imagine how you could spin it to blame Israel if 10,000 Muslim worshippers were blown to bits along with the Mosque during an Iranian strike.

Yes. Because it never was a factual border, as evidenced by the 1949 Armistice Agreement. Jordan has recognized Israel within the entirety of her territory (again, without prejudice to future treaty agreements).

Illegally. Jordan has no legal claim to that territory.

How very double-standards of you. Do you not agree that one should not discriminate based on religion? If Israel is required to permit free access to Muslim holy sites, why would Jordan not be required to permit free access to Jewish holy sites?

What have I said before? You’re not going to get a response. He already said the Israelis are claiming “ ownership “ which is a blatant lie

 

[Kruska]

Sure. But in this case, Israel is NOT barring Muslims from access any holy sites. Israel is restricting public gatherings for everyone due to security concerns. You can cry bullshit all you want, but it's rather silly to do so given that the Old City was hit by Iran missiles. Imagine how you could spin it to blame Israel if 10,000 Muslim worshippers were blown to bits along with the Mosque during an Iranian strike.

Israel has manifold times restricted access to Muslims - not just since it receives counterstrikes from Iran.
So your argument fails totally.

Yes. Because it never was a factual border, as evidenced by the 1949 Armistice Agreement. Jordan has recognized Israel within the entirety of her territory (again, without prejudice to future treaty agreements).

There was a de facto border defined by the ceasefire agreement, and before October 26, 1994, Jordan hadn't even recognized Israel;
So your argument fails again.

Illegally. Jordan has no legal claim to that territory.

Off - course they had - till October 26, 1994 - since Israels UN acknowledged territorial sovereignty only extends along that ceasefire line. So your argument fails again.
It was the Arab States incl. Egypt that explicitly stated that the de facto borders of the 1949 armistice lines to be temporary cease-fire lines rather than political or international borders - since the 1949 ceasefire agreement still contested the occupied territory by Israel.

And the former Jordan territorial claim was abandoned and transferred from Jordan onto the Palestinians aka the PLO, which Israel countersigned.

Since then Israel has broken every single part of this agreement - From declaring Jerusalem as it's capital, to occupying East-Jerusalem, it's continued illegal land-grab in the West-bank to Israels offensives and occupation of Lebanese and Syrian territory.

Off course all of this in view of the Zionist policy of "Greater Israel".

How very double-standards of you.

The only ones that have a proven double standard, since they illegally migrated into Palestine and grabed Palestinian lands, are these Zionists.

Do you not agree that one should not discriminate based on religion?

No - never did

If Israel is required to permit free access to Muslim holy sites, why would Jordan not be required to permit free access to Jewish holy sites?

See above and ALL my previous posts

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

Off - course they had - till October 26, 1994 - since Israels UN acknowledged territorial sovereignty only extends along that ceasefire line. So your argument fails again.

What was the UN acknowledged territorial sovereignty of Jordan?

 

[USAF 2023]

What have I said before? You’re not going to get a response. He already said the Israelis are claiming “ ownership “ which is a blatant lie

Of course he disagrees. Still haven’t gotten a response, I’m Paraphrasing; He said the Jews think they own those sites

 

[USAF 2023]

Israel has manifold times restricted access to Muslims - not just since it receives counterstrikes from Iran.
So your argument fails totally.

There was a de facto border defined by the ceasefire agreement, and before October 26, 1994, Jordan hadn't even recognized Israel;
So your argument fails again.

Off - course they had - till October 26, 1994 - since Israels UN acknowledged territorial sovereignty only extends along that ceasefire line. So your argument fails again.
It was the Arab States incl. Egypt that explicitly stated that the de facto borders of the 1949 armistice lines to be temporary cease-fire lines rather than political or international borders - since the 1949 ceasefire agreement still contested the occupied territory by Israel.
If those lines were “ temporary “ maybe you can tell us where the borders were “supposed “ to be

And the former Jordan territorial claim was abandoned and transferred from Jordan onto the Palestinians aka the PLO, which Israel countersigned.

Since then Israel has broken every single part of this agreement - From declaring Jerusalem as it's capital, to occupying East-Jerusalem, it's continued illegal land-grab in the West-bank to Israels offensives and occupation of Lebanese and Syrian territory.
Them
Off course all of this in view of the Zionist policy of "Greater Israel".

The only ones that have a proven double standard, since they illegally migrated into Palestine and grabed Palestinian lands, are these Zionists.

Translation; Israel doesn’t have the right to exist Maybe you should go to the UN and tell them. How did Israel get that territory? It started with Nasser bragging to the world his goal was Israel’s destruction Blocking the Straits with the UN “peacekeepers “ leaving

Forgot! Nasser never blocked the Straits. Just an excuse

 

[Kruska]

Forgot! Nasser never blocked the Straits. Just an excuse

So what about it?- The Straits of Tiran were sovereign Egyptian territory at the time, resp. till 2017, then Saudi-Arabia - silly Zionist!