Climate Change - The Simple Argument

[Old Rocks]

Then why does your false prophet Hansen state that 2008 was the coolest since 2000.

Thou who speakest with forked tongue be the dishonest one.

Did you bother to check out all the links on that site about snow caving in roofs, all the record breaking lows, about Giselles freezing to death in Tibet, etc. etc. etc. etc.

Besides what do you have against tropospheric data except when it suits your purpose. It is certainly more accurate than SAT.

2008 tied with 2001 as the eighth warmest year on record.

NOAA: 2008 Global Temperature Ties as Eighth Warmest on Record
January 14, 2009

The year 2008 tied with 2001 as the eighth warmest year on record for the Earth, based on the combined average of worldwide land and ocean surface temperatures through December, according to a preliminary analysis by NOAA’s National Climatic Data Center in Asheville, N.C. For December alone, the month also ranked as the eighth warmest globally, for the combined land and ocean surface temperature. The assessment is based on records dating back to 1880.

The analyses in NCDC’s global reports are based on preliminary data, which are subject to revision. Additional quality control is applied to the data when late reports are received several weeks after the end of the month and as increased scientific methods improve NCDC’s processing algorithms.

NCDC’s ranking of 2008 as the eighth warmest year compares to a ranking of ninth warmest based on an analysis by NASA’s Goddard Institute for Space Studies. The NOAA and NASA analyses differ slightly in methodology, but both use data from NOAA's National Climatic Data Center – the federal government's official source for climate data.

NOAA - National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration - NOAA: 2008 Global Temperature Ties as Eigth Warmest on Record

By your own statement, that means that the years since 2000 have all been ranked as the higher than the eighth warmest. You guys are pathetic.

 

[edthecynic]

Then why does your false prophet Hansen state that 2008 was the coolest since 2000.

Thou who speakest with forked tongue be the dishonest one.

Did you bother to check out all the links on that site about snow caving in roofs, all the record breaking lows, about Giselles freezing to death in Tibet, etc. etc. etc. etc.

Besides what do you have against tropospheric data except when it suits your purpose. It is certainly more accurate than SAT.

Again, coolest since 2000 hardly constitutes global "record cold."

And south of the equator they had record breaking highs. I can cherry pick anecdotal evidence too, and it is just as meaningless as yours.

If troposphere data was more accurate you would never use it. We live on the surface of the planet, not up to 8 kilometers in the atmosphere.

 

[Old Rocks]

Finder, in case you are just plain too stupid too have noticed, one of the principle predictions of global warming is wider and wilder swings in the weather, with an overall warming. And that is exactly what we are seeing.

A solar minimum, and a strong and persistant La Nina, yet 2008 is still the eighth warmest on record. And you call that cooling! Lordy, lordy.

 

[FactFinder]

The list of links speak for themselves. They all talk about the real world not the land of make believe headed by Hansen and his made up computer models.

Oh I see you intentionally left out that 2008 was the coolest since 2000.

 

[FactFinder]

Denver Weather Examiner: Battle of the climate scientists - Gray versus Hansen part 3

Dr. Gray sums it up like this:

“If skillful GCM climate forecasts were possible for a longer period of a season to a few years, we would be eager to track their skill. Currently, GCMs do not make official seasonal or yearly forecasts. They dare not issue these forecasts because they know they are not skillful and would quickly lose their credibility if they gave real time forecasts that could actually be verified. How can we trust GCM climate forecasts 50 and 100 years into the future (that cannot be verified in our lifetime) when these same models are not able to demonstrate shorter range forecast skill of a season or a year or two?”

 

[FactFinder]

James Hansen’s Former NASA Supervisor Declares Himself a Skeptic - Says Hansen ‘Embarrassed NASA’, ‘Was Never Muzzled’, & Models ‘Useless’ « Watts Up With That?

James Hansen’s Former NASA Supervisor Declares Himself a Skeptic - Says Hansen ‘Embarrassed NASA’, ‘Was Never Muzzled’, & Models ‘Useless’

 

[Old Rocks]

The list of links speak for themselves. They all talk about the real world not the land of make believe headed by Hansen and his made up computer models.

Oh I see you intentionally left out that 2008 was the coolest since 2000.

The links speak of extremes. And here is the overall picture;
NOAA - National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration - NOAA: 2008 Global Temperature Ties as Eigth Warmest on Record


Global Temperature Highlights – 2008

The combined global land and ocean surface temperature from January-December was 0.88 degree F (0.49 degree C) above the 20th Century average of 57.0 degrees F (13.9 degrees C). Since 1880, the annual combined global land and ocean surface temperature has increased at a rate of 0.09 degree F (0.05 degree C) per decade. This rate has increased to 0.29 degree F (0.16 degree C) per decade over the past 30 years.
Separately, the global land surface temperature for 2008, through December, was sixth warmest, with an average temperature 1.46 degrees F (0.81 degree C) above the 20th Century average of 47.3 degrees F (8.5 degrees C).
Also separately, the global ocean surface temperature for 2008, through December, was 0.67 degree F (0.37 degree C) above the 20th Century average of 60.9 degrees F (16.1 degrees C) and ranked tenth warmest.
Global Temperature Highlights – December 2008

The December combined global land and ocean surface temperature was 0.86 degree F (0.48 degree C) above the 20th Century average of 54.0 degrees F (12.2 degrees C).
Separately, the December 2008 global land surface temperature was 1.22 degrees F (0.68 degree C) above the 20th Century average of 38.7 degrees F (3.7 degrees C) and ranked 14th warmest.
For December, the global ocean surface temperature was 0.74 degree F (0.41 degree C) above the 20th Century average of 60.4 degrees F (15.7 degrees C) and tied with December 2001 and December 2005 as sixth warmest.
Other Global Highlights for 2008

The United States recorded a preliminary total of 1,690 tornadoes during 2008, which is well above the 10-year average of 1,270 and ranks as the second highest annual total since reliable records began in 1953. The high number of tornado-related fatalities during the first half of the year made 2008 the 10th deadliest with a 2008 total of 125 deaths.
Northern Hemisphere snow cover extent in December was 16.95 million square miles (43.91 million square kilometers). This was 0.17 million square miles (0.43 million square kilometers) above the 1966-2008 December average. Northern Hemisphere snow cover extent was below average for most of 2008.
Arctic sea ice extent in 2008 reached its second lowest melt season extent on record in September. The minimum of 1.80 million square miles (4.67 million square kilometers) was 0.80 million square miles (2.09 million square kilometers) below the 1979-2000 average minimum extent.
NOAA understands and predicts changes in the Earth's environment, from the depths of the ocean to the surface of the sun, and conserves and manages our coastal and marine resources.

Finder, every year since 2000 has ranked as the eighth warmest or higher in the last 150 years. Again, as you well know, a solar minimum and a strong and persistant La Nina, and still, 2008 was tied with 2001 as the eighth warmest on record.

Go ahead and blabber idiotic talking points, anyone doing the slightest research will see you for what you are.

 

[elvis]

The list of links speak for themselves. They all talk about the real world not the land of make believe headed by Hansen and his made up computer models.

Oh I see you intentionally left out that 2008 was the coolest since 2000.

The links speak of extremes. And here is the overall picture;
NOAA - National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration - NOAA: 2008 Global Temperature Ties as Eigth Warmest on Record


Global Temperature Highlights – 2008

The combined global land and ocean surface temperature from January-December was 0.88 degree F (0.49 degree C) above the 20th Century average of 57.0 degrees F (13.9 degrees C). Since 1880, the annual combined global land and ocean surface temperature has increased at a rate of 0.09 degree F (0.05 degree C) per decade. This rate has increased to 0.29 degree F (0.16 degree C) per decade over the past 30 years.
Separately, the global land surface temperature for 2008, through December, was sixth warmest, with an average temperature 1.46 degrees F (0.81 degree C) above the 20th Century average of 47.3 degrees F (8.5 degrees C).
Also separately, the global ocean surface temperature for 2008, through December, was 0.67 degree F (0.37 degree C) above the 20th Century average of 60.9 degrees F (16.1 degrees C) and ranked tenth warmest.
Global Temperature Highlights – December 2008

The December combined global land and ocean surface temperature was 0.86 degree F (0.48 degree C) above the 20th Century average of 54.0 degrees F (12.2 degrees C).
Separately, the December 2008 global land surface temperature was 1.22 degrees F (0.68 degree C) above the 20th Century average of 38.7 degrees F (3.7 degrees C) and ranked 14th warmest.
For December, the global ocean surface temperature was 0.74 degree F (0.41 degree C) above the 20th Century average of 60.4 degrees F (15.7 degrees C) and tied with December 2001 and December 2005 as sixth warmest.
Other Global Highlights for 2008

The United States recorded a preliminary total of 1,690 tornadoes during 2008, which is well above the 10-year average of 1,270 and ranks as the second highest annual total since reliable records began in 1953. The high number of tornado-related fatalities during the first half of the year made 2008 the 10th deadliest with a 2008 total of 125 deaths.
Northern Hemisphere snow cover extent in December was 16.95 million square miles (43.91 million square kilometers). This was 0.17 million square miles (0.43 million square kilometers) above the 1966-2008 December average. Northern Hemisphere snow cover extent was below average for most of 2008.
Arctic sea ice extent in 2008 reached its second lowest melt season extent on record in September. The minimum of 1.80 million square miles (4.67 million square kilometers) was 0.80 million square miles (2.09 million square kilometers) below the 1979-2000 average minimum extent.
NOAA understands and predicts changes in the Earth's environment, from the depths of the ocean to the surface of the sun, and conserves and manages our coastal and marine resources.

Finder, every year since 2000 has ranked as the eighth warmest or higher in the last 150 years. Again, as you well know, a solar minimum and a strong and persistant La Nina, and still, 2008 was tied with 2001 as the eighth warmest on record.

Go ahead and blabber idiotic talking points, anyone doing the slightest research will see you for what you are.

you tell him, carpentry boy.

 

[Old Rocks]

Denver Weather Examiner: Battle of the climate scientists - Gray versus Hansen part 3

Dr. Gray sums it up like this:

“If skillful GCM climate forecasts were possible for a longer period of a season to a few years, we would be eager to track their skill. Currently, GCMs do not make official seasonal or yearly forecasts. They dare not issue these forecasts because they know they are not skillful and would quickly lose their credibility if they gave real time forecasts that could actually be verified. How can we trust GCM climate forecasts 50 and 100 years into the future (that cannot be verified in our lifetime) when these same models are not able to demonstrate shorter range forecast skill of a season or a year or two?”

Dr. Gray has blown about three years in a row on his hurricane forecasts. Hansen's forecasts from 1988 for 2000 were accurate. Unfortunately, his, and others, have been far less accurate in the last eight years. What we see in the Arctic and Anarctica was not supposed to be happening for decades.

Problem with you fellows is that in about three years you will be disavowing that you ever mentioned global cooling. Same as you now disavow that you stated many times prior to 2000 that global warming was not happening at all.

 

[FactFinder]

2008 was still the coolest since 2000. You continue to ignore the fact that when you are declining from a peak you are still at some of the highest elevations. You also ignore solid evidence of cooling. I fear that it is no exaggeration that you all have become brainwashed into the Church of Gore.

The greatest cooling has still to be achieved but cooling it is. A rather inconvenient one for you believers. heh?

 

[FactFinder]

Elvis,
A millwright does not possess the skill set of a carpenter.

 

[FactFinder]

Denver Weather Examiner: Battle of the climate scientists - Gray versus Hansen part 3

Dr. Gray sums it up like this:

“If skillful GCM climate forecasts were possible for a longer period of a season to a few years, we would be eager to track their skill. Currently, GCMs do not make official seasonal or yearly forecasts. They dare not issue these forecasts because they know they are not skillful and would quickly lose their credibility if they gave real time forecasts that could actually be verified. How can we trust GCM climate forecasts 50 and 100 years into the future (that cannot be verified in our lifetime) when these same models are not able to demonstrate shorter range forecast skill of a season or a year or two?”

Dr. Gray has blown about three years in a row on his hurricane forecasts. Hansen's forecasts from 1988 for 2000 were accurate. Unfortunately, his, and others, have been far less accurate in the last eight years. What we see in the Arctic and Anarctica was not supposed to be happening for decades.

Problem with you fellows is that in about three years you will be disavowing that you ever mentioned global cooling. Same as you now disavow that you stated many times prior to 2000 that global warming was not happening at all.

It wasn't me stating it. I didn't bother with this hoopla till Gore put out his propaganda. Then I knew we were all being lied to.

 

[Old Rocks]

James Hansen’s Former NASA Supervisor Declares Himself a Skeptic - Says Hansen ‘Embarrassed NASA’, ‘Was Never Muzzled’, & Models ‘Useless’ « Watts Up With That?

James Hansen’s Former NASA Supervisor Declares Himself a Skeptic - Says Hansen ‘Embarrassed NASA’, ‘Was Never Muzzled’, & Models ‘Useless’

House Democrats and Republicans traded rhetoric Monday over a new report claiming White House officials sought to suppress scientific views of global warming that clashed with Bush administration policies.

Whistleblower says White House tried to block EPA from reporting critical information about greenhouse gas emissions.
(AP Photo)
More PhotosThe report -- originally undertaken as a bipartisan effort -- leads to what the House Oversight and Government Reform Committee calls an "inescapable" conclusion that "the Bush administration has engaged in a systematic effort to manipulate climate change science and mislead policymakers and the public about the dangers of global warming."

The report is the result of a 16-month investigation by the committee, chaired by Rep. Henry Waxman, D-Calif. Republicans on the committee quickly dismissed the report as a "political attack" and issued their own findings that question the Democrats' conclusions and investigative methods. The White House called the allegations untrue.

One of the issues addressed in the report released by the Democratic majority is whether the White House Council on Environmental Quality, or CEQ, required approval of all media requests to interview government climate scientists.

The report states that "by controlling which government scientists could respond to media inquiries, the White House and agency political appointees suppressed dissemination of scientific views that could conflict with administration policies."
Did White House Censor Science? - ABC News

 

[Old Rocks]

Denver Weather Examiner: Battle of the climate scientists - Gray versus Hansen part 3

Dr. Gray sums it up like this:

“If skillful GCM climate forecasts were possible for a longer period of a season to a few years, we would be eager to track their skill. Currently, GCMs do not make official seasonal or yearly forecasts. They dare not issue these forecasts because they know they are not skillful and would quickly lose their credibility if they gave real time forecasts that could actually be verified. How can we trust GCM climate forecasts 50 and 100 years into the future (that cannot be verified in our lifetime) when these same models are not able to demonstrate shorter range forecast skill of a season or a year or two?”

Dr. Gray has blown about three years in a row on his hurricane forecasts. Hansen's forecasts from 1988 for 2000 were accurate. Unfortunately, his, and others, have been far less accurate in the last eight years. What we see in the Arctic and Anarctica was not supposed to be happening for decades.

Problem with you fellows is that in about three years you will be disavowing that you ever mentioned global cooling. Same as you now disavow that you stated many times prior to 2000 that global warming was not happening at all.

It wasn't me stating it. I didn't bother with this hoopla till Gore put out his propaganda. Then I knew we were all being lied to.

And your basis for this is?

 

[FactFinder]

Why Gore's history of hyperbole of course. That mixed with a healthy dose of mature instincts.

 

[Old Rocks]

James Hansen and Mark Bowen on Censored Science : NPR

More on the censorship of science by the Bush admin.

 

[Old Rocks]

Why Gore's history of hyperbole of course. That mixed with a healthy dose of mature instincts.

Outline the major errors in Gore's film. Better make it good, because I will shoot you down on every idiot's talking point you bring up without solid scientific basis.

 

[FactFinder]

SpringerLink - Journal Article
Roy W. Spencer1

(1) The University of Alabama in Huntsville, Huntsville, AL 35805, USA

Received: 22 October 2007 Revised: 8 February 2008 Accepted: 15 February 2008 Published online: 19 March 2008

Abstract Al Gore’s movie An Inconvenient Truth gives a variety of unusually biased interpretations of the state of climate science and global warming theory. These cover a wide range of natural events and processes which could potentially be impacted by global warming, but which the movie misrepresents as clear examples of the human influence on climate. A few examples include the mixing up of cause and effect in his graphical portrayal of temperature and carbon dioxide variations over hundreds of thousands of years; the repeated depiction of ice calving from glaciers as a sign of global warming; the implication that Hurricane Katrina was the fault of humans; and the particularly extreme view that the Greenland ice sheet will melt, flooding coastal cities worldwide. Ultimately, all of these are related to the widespread perception that scientists have uniquely tied global warming to anthropogenic greenhouse gas emissions. The real inconvenient truth is that science has no idea how much of recent warming is natural versus the result of human activities.


Nobel Prize-Winning Peacekeeper Asks UN to Admit Climate Change Errors | NewsBusters.org
14 April 2008

Dear Dr. Pachauri and others associated with IPCC

We are writing to you and others associated with the IPCC position – that man’s CO2 is a driver of global warming and climate change – to ask that you now in view of the evidence retract support from the current IPCC position [as in footnote 1] and admit that there is no observational evidence in measured data going back 22,000 years or even millions of years that CO2 levels (whether from man or nature) have driven or are driving world temperatures or climate change.


If you believe there is evidence of the CO2 driver theory in the available data please present a graph of it.


We draw your attention to three observational refutations of the IPCC position (and note there are more). Ice-core data from the ACIA (Arctic Climate Impact Assessment) shows that temperatures have fallen since around 4,000 years ago (the Bronze Age Climate Optimum) while CO2 levels have risen, yet this graphical data was not included in the IPCC Summary for Policymakers (Fig. SPM1 Feb07) which graphed the CO2 rise.

More recent data shows that in the opposite sense to IPCC predictions world temperatures have not risen and indeed have fallen over the past 10 years while CO2 levels have risen dramatically.

The up-dated temperature measurements have been released by the NASA’s Microwave Sounding Unit (MSU) [1] as well as by the UK’s Hadley Climate Research Unit (Temperature v. 3, variance adjusted - Hadley CRUT3v) [2]. In parallel, readings of atmospheric concentrations of CO2 have been released by the Mauna Loa Observatory in Hawaii [3]. They have been combined in graphical form by Joe D’Aleo [4], and are shown below.
..........

Hans Schreuder, Analytical Chemist, mMensa, hans@tech-know.eu

Piers Corbyn, Astrophysicist UK, Dir. WeatherAction.com, piers@weatheraction.com

Dr Don Parkes, Prof. Em. Human Ecology, Australia, dnp@networksmm.com.au

Svend Hendriksen, Nobel Peace Prize 1988 (shared), Greenland, hendriksen@greennet.gl


New Scientist Environment Blog: Al Gore's An Inconvenient Truth: unscientific? - New Scientist

 

[Old Rocks]

SpringerLink - Journal Article
Roy W. Spencer1

(1) The University of Alabama in Huntsville, Huntsville, AL 35805, USA

Received: 22 October 2007 Revised: 8 February 2008 Accepted: 15 February 2008 Published online: 19 March 2008

Abstract Al Gore’s movie An Inconvenient Truth gives a variety of unusually biased interpretations of the state of climate science and global warming theory. These cover a wide range of natural events and processes which could potentially be impacted by global warming, but which the movie misrepresents as clear examples of the human influence on climate. A few examples include the mixing up of cause and effect in his graphical portrayal of temperature and carbon dioxide variations over hundreds of thousands of years; the repeated depiction of ice calving from glaciers as a sign of global warming; the implication that Hurricane Katrina was the fault of humans; and the particularly extreme view that the Greenland ice sheet will melt, flooding coastal cities worldwide. Ultimately, all of these are related to the widespread perception that scientists have uniquely tied global warming to anthropogenic greenhouse gas emissions. The real inconvenient truth is that science has no idea how much of recent warming is natural versus the result of human activities.
............................................................................................
CO2 lags temperature - what does it mean?
The skeptic argument...Joe Barton to Al Gore: "An article from Science magazine explains a rise in CO2 concentrations actually lagged temperature by 200 to 1000 years. CO2 levels went up after the temperature rose. Temperature appears to drive CO2, not vice versa." (Source: Office of Congressman Joe Barton)

What the science says...
The CO2 record confirms both the amplifying effect of atmospheric CO2 and how sensitive climate is to change.


Does temperature rise cause CO2 rise or the other way around? A common misconception is that you can only have one or the other. In actuality, the answer is both.


Milankovitch cycles - how increased temperature causes CO2 rise

Looking over past climate change, scientists have observed a cycle of ice ages separated by brief warm periods called interglacials. This pattern is due to Milankovitch cycles - gradual, regular changes in the earth's orbit and axis. While there are several different cycles, the dominant climate signal is the 100,000 year eccentricity cycle as the Earth's orbit changes from a more circular to a more elliptical orbit (Petit 1999, Shackleton 2000).

The eccentricity cycle causes changes in insolation (incoming sunlight). When springtime insolation increases in the southern hemisphere, this coincides with rising temperatures in the south, retreating Antarctic sea ice and melting glaciers in the southern hemisphere (Shemesh 2002). As temperature rises, CO2 also rises but lags the warming by 800 to 1000 years (Monnin 2001, Caillon 2003, Stott 2007).
CO2 lags temperature - what does it mean?

 

[Old Rocks]

SpringerLink - Journal Article
Roy W. Spencer1

(1) The University of Alabama in Huntsville, Huntsville, AL 35805, USA

Received: 22 October 2007 Revised: 8 February 2008 Accepted: 15 February 2008 Published online: 19 March 2008

Abstract Al Gore’s movie An Inconvenient Truth gives a variety of unusually biased interpretations of the state of climate science and global warming theory. These cover a wide range of natural events and processes which could potentially be impacted by global warming, but which the movie misrepresents as clear examples of the human influence on climate. A few examples include the mixing up of cause and effect in his graphical portrayal of temperature and carbon dioxide variations over hundreds of thousands of years; the repeated depiction of ice calving from glaciers as a sign of global warming; the implication that Hurricane Katrina was the fault of humans; and the particularly extreme view that the Greenland ice sheet will melt, flooding coastal cities worldwide. Ultimately, all of these are related to the widespread perception that scientists have uniquely tied global warming to anthropogenic greenhouse gas emissions. The real inconvenient truth is that science has no idea how much of recent warming is natural versus the result of human activities.
..........................................................................................
Glaciers in Antarctica are melting faster and across a much wider area than previously thought, a development that threatens to raise sea levels worldwide and force millions of people to flee low-lying areas, scientists said Wednesday.

Researchers once believed that the melting was limited to the Antarctic Peninsula, a narrow tongue of land pointing toward South America. But satellite data and automated weather stations now indicate it is more widespread.

The melting “also extends all the way down to what is called west Antarctica,” said Colin Summerhayes, executive director of the Britain-based Scientific Committee on Antarctic Research.

“That's unusual and unexpected,” he told The Associated Press in an interview.

By the end of the century, the accelerated melting could cause sea levels to climb by 3 to 5 feet - levels substantially higher than predicted by a major scientific group just two years ago.
Glaciers Melting Faster Than First Thought - CBS News