"Civil liberties aren't worth much if you're dead"

[bush lover]

That's a quote from Sen. Jim Bunning, on why the Patriot Act is necessary. Please say it aint so. Our President is telling us we need to fight wars because the terrorists hate our freedoms. But a (Republican) senator is saying basically that our Constitution and Bill of Rights are worthless if we're dead, so we have to curb our liberty to stay safe. Is that the message we want to send to our dying WWII veterans who suffered through horrific battles to CONSERVE our Constitution and freedom? That it's no longer worth dying for? Please, President Bush, say it aint so!

 

[insein]

I can't believe "bush lover" brought up an interesting conversation piece.

This has been the argument since the formation of the constitution. You have freedom or you have security. They are at odds with one another. Thats why you need to find the balance.

“Any society that would give up a little liberty to gain a little security will deserve neither and lose both.” -Ben Franklin

Im of Ben's mindset. Anytime you start handing the government arbitray reasons to "secure" the population it can be misused against the population. Thus freedom is lost in the name of security.

I like parts of the Patriot Act. I dont like the whole thing. Thats why i think they need to vote on each individual part of a bill in congress rather then throw on extra crap that doesnt belong.

 

[dilloduck]

I can't believe "bush lover" brought up an interesting conversation piece.

This has been the argument since the formation of the constitution. You have freedom or you have security. They are at odds with one another. Thats why you need to find the balance.

“Any society that would give up a little liberty to gain a little security will deserve neither and lose both.” -Ben Franklin

Im of Ben's mindset. Anytime you start handing the government arbitray reasons to "secure" the population it can be misused against the population. Thus freedom is lost in the name of security.

I like parts of the Patriot Act. I dont like the whole thing. Thats why i think they need to vote on each individual part of a bill in congress rather then throw on extra crap that doesnt belong.

Looks like they have a pretty decent compromise worked out to finally get it through.

 

[no1tovote4]

Don't Feed the Charicature Troll.

 

[Mr. P]

...

“Any society that would give up a little liberty to gain a little security will deserve neither and lose both.” -Ben Franklin

Im of Ben's mindset. Anytime you start handing the government arbitray reasons to "secure" the population it can be misused against the population. Thus freedom is lost in the name of security.

I like parts of the Patriot Act. I dont like the whole thing. Thats why i think they need to vote on each individual part of a bill in congress rather then throw on extra crap that doesnt belong.

I pretty much feel the same way. The only thing I’d add is NEVER allow it to become permanent; it should always be reviewed and updated until it’s no longer needed.
*Fingers crossed*

 

[insein]

Don't Feed the Charicature Troll.

gotta give credi when its due. Even if its from trolls. Im sure he didnt mean to make a good point. ITs just one of those things that happens.

 

[trobinett]

I pretty much feel the same way. The only thing I’d add is NEVER allow it to become permanent; it should always be reviewed and updated until it’s no longer needed.
*Fingers crossed*

Better cross your heart, leg`s, and eye`s Mr. P.

I got a bad feeling about this, looks a lot like the temporary income tax deal, you know, just for the war.

We`ve got more GD laws than a person can shake a stick at, we need MORE?

The security of this nation DOESN`t need the Patriot act, it was only needed as a temporary stop gap measure.

The executive branch of the government can do its job WITHOUT the Patriot act.

 

[sitarro]

A friend of mine was stopped by a state cop the other day and ended up wasting 2 hours of his time because the cop smelled pipe tobacco. My friend does smoke a blend of pipe tobacco that is called honey clover, it doesn't in any way smell like pot. This idiot ended up handcuffing my friend and put him in the back of his car while he proceeded to take everything out of his car including the bottom half of the back seat. He didn't find anything so he called in a canine unit to do a search. The dog showed up 45 minutes later, sniffed the car and decided that he didn't smell anything illegal. They released my friend and took off. He was left on the side of the road to reassemble his car.
Meanwhile 50 drunks probably drove by while this Barney was wasting everone involved time.

I was driving in Ft. Meyers ,Florida one Saturday night when I came upon a detour. This "detour" was actually a random search roadblock that the police had decided to implement. I couldn't believe what I was seeing, I thought I was in a episode of The Twilight Zone. Here I am minding my own business when I get involved in a Nazi like search of my rental car, the cops even looked like Nazis with tall black boots and German Sheperds. I asked the cop that demanded my identification whether I was time traveling and had ended up in WW2 Germany, he didn't think I was funny.

What gives these clowns the right to stop citizens for no reason???? The rediculous drug war. Forget the patriot act, we have something worse already. The Supreme Court has given the power to any high school dropout that somehow passed the police academy test to stop and detain you unapologetically. That is a travesty.

 

[trobinett]

Yep, we need more laws`, can`t even enforce the ones` we have correctly.

I can guarantee ya, that the cop`s wouldn`t pull that BS here in the Ozarks.

People have a way of disappearing, permanent like. :usa:

 

[Mr. P]

A friend of mine was stopped by a state cop the other day and ended up wasting 2 hours of his time because the cop smelled pipe tobacco. My friend does smoke a blend of pipe tobacco that is called honey clover, it doesn't in any way smell like pot. This idiot ended up handcuffing my friend and put him in the back of his car while he proceeded to take everything out of his car including the bottom half of the back seat. He didn't find anything so he called in a canine unit to do a search. The dog showed up 45 minutes later, sniffed the car and decided that he didn't smell anything illegal. They released my friend and took off. He was left on the side of the road to reassemble his car.
Meanwhile 50 drunks probably drove by while this Barney was wasting everone involved time.

I was driving in Ft. Meyers ,Florida one Saturday night when I came upon a detour. This "detour" was actually a random search roadblock that the police had decided to implement. I couldn't believe what I was seeing, I thought I was in a episode of The Twilight Zone. Here I am minding my own business when I get involved in a Nazi like search of my rental car, the cops even looked like Nazis with tall black boots and German Sheperds. I asked the cop that demanded my identification whether I was time traveling and had ended up in WW2 Germany, he didn't think I was funny.

What gives these clowns the right to stop citizens for no reason???? The rediculous drug war. Forget the patriot act, we have something worse already. The Supreme Court has given the power to any high school dropout that somehow passed the police academy test to stop and detain you unapologetically. That is a travesty.

Until they improve pay that’s what we’ll be faced with.

I have a scanner and listen in on police, I'll tell ya, it’s a wonder some of them
can even function, I have no clue how they even got the job.
BTW…that goes for some of the dispatch people too.

On the other hand I see many COPS here in my home having warrants signed,
and many more are top notch vs buffoon.

 

[archangel]

A friend of mine was stopped by a state cop the other day and ended up wasting 2 hours of his time because the cop smelled pipe tobacco. My friend does smoke a blend of pipe tobacco that is called honey clover, it doesn't in any way smell like pot. This idiot ended up handcuffing my friend and put him in the back of his car while he proceeded to take everything out of his car including the bottom half of the back seat. He didn't find anything so he called in a canine unit to do a search. The dog showed up 45 minutes later, sniffed the car and decided that he didn't smell anything illegal. They released my friend and took off. He was left on the side of the road to reassemble his car.
Meanwhile 50 drunks probably drove by while this Barney was wasting everone involved time.

I was driving in Ft. Meyers ,Florida one Saturday night when I came upon a detour. This "detour" was actually a random search roadblock that the police had decided to implement. I couldn't believe what I was seeing, I thought I was in a episode of The Twilight Zone. Here I am minding my own business when I get involved in a Nazi like search of my rental car, the cops even looked like Nazis with tall black boots and German Sheperds. I asked the cop that demanded my identification whether I was time traveling and had ended up in WW2 Germany, he didn't think I was funny.

What gives these clowns the right to stop citizens for no reason???? The rediculous drug war. Forget the patriot act, we have something worse already. The Supreme Court has given the power to any high school dropout that somehow passed the police academy test to stop and detain you unapologetically. That is a travesty.

Your friend could file a complaint...and as for the requirements for 'POST' certification in your area...I am truly amazed..out West the requirement to even apply is a minimum of a AS degree and a background and Psychological exam..I'm pretty sure this is also the case on the East Coast and most of middle America!

 

[no1tovote4]

That's a quote from Sen. Jim Bunning, on why the Patriot Act is necessary. Please say it aint so. Our President is telling us we need to fight wars because the terrorists hate our freedoms. But a (Republican) senator is saying basically that our Constitution and Bill of Rights are worthless if we're dead, so we have to curb our liberty to stay safe. Is that the message we want to send to our dying WWII veterans who suffered through horrific battles to CONSERVE our Constitution and freedom? That it's no longer worth dying for? Please, President Bush, say it aint so!

It isn't so. He may have some insanity, but I do not. Freedoms are not worth giving up for the type of security the government provides.

 

[Gunny]

This has been the argument since the formation of the constitution. You have freedom or you have security. They are at odds with one another. Thats why you need to find the balance.

“Any society that would give up a little liberty to gain a little security will deserve neither and lose both.” -Ben Franklin

Yeah, Ben did a lot talking.

I completely agree with the first statement ... there has to be a balance. IMO, we aren't even close.

Common sense is sorely lacking. No profiling. Gee, what does an Islamic extremist Arab look like? The little black lady getting rousted at the airport?

And Heaven forbid we listen to known terrorists/terrorist organizations calling the US.

Meanwhile, one could drive a tank across the SW border.

There is no rhyme nor reason to our madness.

 

[dilloduck]

Yeah, Ben did a lot talking.

I completely agree with the first statement ... there has to be a balance. IMO, we aren't even close.

Common sense is sorely lacking. No profiling. Gee, what does an Islamic extremist Arab look like? The little black lady getting rousted at the airport?

And Heaven forbid we listen to known terrorists/terrorist organizations calling the US.

Meanwhile, one could drive a tank across the SW border.

There is no rhyme nor reason to our madness.

I think whats lacking is a majority of honest politicians ( I know--oxymoron)
The corporate world is pulling the strings here and they only have profit as a motive.

 

[musicman]

That's a quote from Sen. Jim Bunning...

...who is also a good old Kentucky boy, and the only pitcher in major league history to win 100 games in each league (Detroit Tigers and Philadelphia Philles), so GET OFF HIS ASS, BUSTER!!! :