CIA "cooked the intelligence" to hide the fact that Putin wanted Hillary Clinton to win 2016 election

[Crepitus]

Vladamir Putin knew that Hillary Clinton could easily be manipulated, and that she puts her own interest above her country. He had all her emails, which gave him all the leverage he needed to get whatever he wanted from Hillary.

He also knew that Trump was clearly willing to sacrifice his own interests for the good of his country, and couldn't be bought off.

"The U.S. government said in January 2017 that Russia favored Trump as president. But now, sources reveal for the first time that the CIA "cooked the intelligence" to hide that Vladamir Putin wanted Hillary Clinton, not Donald Trump, as president."

Well that's a straight up lie.

 

[Crepitus]

She gave Putin access to American uranium.

https://www.congress.gov/116/meeting/house/109694/documents/HHRG-116-II06-20190625-SD004.pdf

That's been debunked repeatedly, as you well know.

 

[Crepitus]

Se got beaten by a NYC building contractor. That had to hurt.

Who did that?

 

[White 6]

That's a total cop-out. You know damn well it was the democrats and the media, the Clinton campaign, and US officials like Brennan and Clapper who were ALL accusing Trump of "colluding with Russia to influence the 2016 election". Schiff and Swalwell were going on MSNBC and CNN and saying they had seen the evidence. Brennan accused Trump of Treason on national tv. The NYT was publishing pieces on the subject on practically a continuous basis. CNN and MSNBC had nightly shows about it, and how Trump and his kids were about to be indicted, etc ad nauseum.

They were ALL calling it "collusion". Republicans were the ones saying that was a made up crime- that collusion was something that was only charged in financial crimes.

Didn't matter one bit. "Collusion" it was, and you people are still clinging to the theory to this day. This thread is just the 10,000th re-hashing of the same old bullshit.

Mueller said "conspiracy", not collusion. He also said that no one in the Trump campaign, or anyone associated with it, conspired or coordinated with the Russian Gov't or IRA in any of their efforts to influence the election- something you people are still in denial over.

The Popadopolous meetings were setups, as was the infamous "Trump Tower" meeting.

BTW, Mueller didn't run that investigation, Andy Weissmann did. Mueller was just a figurehead. Mueller didn't even know who Fusion GPS or Glenn Simpson were.

The Dossier was a fraud- a complete fabrication by Igor Danchenko, typed up by Christopher Steele and passed to the FBI by Nelli Ohr, who worked for Fusion GPS and who's husband was the #3 guy in the Justice Dept.

The entire narrative was cooked up by dems and Trump haters in and out of the US Gov't, there was never a shred of truth to any claim. Just one endless stream of innuendo.

That makes anyone who peddles that garbage a lying sack of shit in my book...

Somebody in some other thread was posting about how the media has always covered trump wrong. There is gobs of crap the media gets wrong, and runs with. This is another one, and I have been saying it, ever since this one came up. Donald Trump at one time, on the white house lawn talking with reporters (undoubtedly after talking with lawyer) said it didn't matter if there was collusion anyway, as there is no law against it. Even somebody as dumb as trump knew that truth, when his lawyers told him. He proceeded to bring it back up, often, kind of like dangling a peace of fake news meat in front of any camera he saw. I looked it up, the first time it came up, as it sounded bad, looking for only Federal Statutes. So, I have known from the beginning of the BS it was what you guys call "Fake News". That is why, in the entire time I have been here, there is not a single thread post or line of comment from me support accusations of collusion. Not a cop-out, I am just smarter than the average bear, and pretty much go with facts.

I have seen collusion accusation discussed repeatedly on FOX, MSNBC, CNN, as well as Network news stations, an in countless internet discussion of New Organizations, as well as many on here. Rarely have I seen it pointed out, there is No Federal Collusion Law, unless I was pointing it out, as I have on this board several times. I suggest, when it comes up, on a News source, it is a good time to chuckle, and change the channel or go get a beer.

 

[AZrailwhale]

If Clinton had been President, a million people would not have died from covid. She wouldn't have let it happen the way Trump did.

What power did Trump legally have to prevent even one death?

 

[para bellum]

I have seen collusion accusation discussed repeatedly on FOX, MSNBC, CNN, as well as Network news stations, an in countless internet discussion of New Organizations, as well as many on here. Rarely have I seen it pointed out, there is No Federal Collusion Law, unless I was pointing it out, as I have on this board several times. I suggest, when it comes up, on a News source, it is a good time to chuckle, and change the channel or go get a beer.

Fair enough but when you say:

"Republicans have been pointing to no collusion charged by Mueller, even though he said in page 1 of the Mueller Report, it was not something he was looking for, while concentrating on actual crimes of people involved in the campaign. He found, referred or charged several successfully."

...you are implying that the strawman was a republican creation, when it absolutely was not.

We say "no collusion", because that is the label attached to the allegations by the Clinton campaign from the very beginning. If we said "no conspiracy or coordination", the left would say "well yes, but there was still collusion..."

And you are being disingenuous when you say Mueller found and successfully charged several people involved in the campaign, because the charges were completely unrelated to the election or the campaign.

The bulk of the charges from that investigation- and ALL of the election or campaign related charges were against Russian nationals who will never see the inside of a US courtroom. That was more for show than anything else, and to provide an explanation for the DNC emails that ended up on Wikileaks.

The charges against Popadopolous were particularly offensive because he was a total patsy- the meetings were setups, and his "crime" was getting the date wrong about the meeting with the mysterious "Josef Misfud". (Who apparently was a CHS, and never a Russian spy at all).

The disparate treatment of the Clinton emails vs. the Trump "collusion" allegations is so beyond the pale. Hillary was treated like a Queen- all her people were given immunity and the investigation was rushed to a close, while the investigation into Trump went on for more than 2 years when they knew all along it was completely baseless.

And here we are, 8 years later. Dems are still trying to pin some fabricated "crimes" on Trump, when all the resources of the Federal Gov't were put to the task and came up empty-handed.

You cannot act surprised when some people call foul...

 

[White 6]

Fair enough but when you say:

"Republicans have been pointing to no collusion charged by Mueller, even though he said in page 1 of the Mueller Report, it was not something he was looking for, while concentrating on actual crimes of people involved in the campaign. He found, referred or charged several successfully."

...you are implying that the strawman was a republican creation, when it absolutely was not.

We say "no collusion", because that is the label attached to the allegations by the Clinton campaign from the very beginning. If we said "no conspiracy or coordination", the left would say "well yes, but there was still collusion..."

And you are being disingenuous when you say Mueller found and successfully charged several people involved in the campaign, because the charges were completely unrelated to the election or the campaign.

The bulk of the charges from that investigation- and ALL of the election or campaign related charges were against Russian nationals who will never see the inside of a US courtroom. That was more for show than anything else, and to provide an explanation for the DNC emails that ended up on Wikileaks.

The charges against Popadopolous were particularly offensive because he was a total patsy- the meetings were setups, and his "crime" was getting the date wrong about the meeting with the mysterious "Josef Misfud". (Who apparently was a CHS, and never a Russian spy at all).

The disparate treatment of the Clinton emails vs. the Trump "collusion" allegations is so beyond the pale. Hillary was treated like a Queen- all her people were given immunity and the investigation was rushed to a close, while the investigation into Trump went on for more than 2 years when they knew all along it was completely baseless.

And here we are, 8 years later. Dems are still trying to pin some fabricated "crimes" on Trump, when all the resources of the Federal Gov't were put to the task and came up empty-handed.

You cannot act surprised when some people call foul...

Maybe you should take it up with somebody on the left. Obviously, I am no spokesman for the left. Being a realist, I go with the Mueller report, claim no following, nor am I a spokesman, paid or unpaid for a political party or group, and have never claimed to be. I was definitely not a Clinton supporter, as she was and probably is, every bit as unprincipled as Trump, but with a far better knowlege of the inside workings of Washington, represented at the time an equal or greater threat. I voted for the libertarian candidate Gary Johnson. I figure he would have been hated by both parties, so would have been another Jimmy Carter Presidency with 4 years of gridlock, but it seemed the best option, as neither of the two candidates for the Republicans or Democrats, in 2016 had an ounce of character between them. Hopefully, you were not suckered by one of them.

 

[para bellum]

I voted for the libertarian candidate Gary Johnson. I figure he would have been hated by both parties, so would have been another Jimmy Carter Presidency with 4 years of gridlock, but it seemed the best option, as neither of the two candidates for the Republicans or Democrats, in 2016 had an ounce of character between them. Hopefully, you were not suckered by one of them.

Well I held my nose and voted for Trump for the same reason you voted for Johnson. I knew he was also hated by both parties, I was not too worried. There were enough anti-Trump republicans, that I could trust in the normal checks and balances to function. But what the democrats did to him went way past normal checks and balances, and that pisses me off.

I did not regret that decision. The country did well under him, even though he was abrasive and about as unpresidential in personality as you can get. We had a great economy going. He made a lot of progress in the Mid-East with Israel and her Arab neighbors, and he got Serbia and Kosovo to normalize economic relations. Those are 2 very sticky areas in global politics and he was productive in both.

And I will vote for him again, and will add that if the 2020 election was fair, I wouldn't have the opportunity to do that this year...

 

[Lastamender]

Ridiculous assertion; never happened.

Yes it did. I posted about it over a month ago. Now it is confirmed.

 

[Dragonlady]

What power did Trump legally have to prevent even one death?

Possibly the stupidest question I have ever seen on this forum.

The power to direct the national resources and people of the United States of America to defeat the virus.

The power to save even one life? Trump directed US manufacturers to sell all of their PPE to China in January, keep none for American health care staff. He even change the trade rules to allow them to profit.

More than 2000 healthcare, American healthcare workers, lost their lives in the early days of the pandemic, due to a lack of PPE.

Trump had the power to save 2000 lives and threw it away.

 

[White 6]

Well I held my nose and voted for Trump for the same reason you voted for Johnson. I knew he was also hated by both parties, I was not too worried. There were enough anti-Trump republicans, that I could trust in the normal checks and balances to function. But what the democrats did to him went way past normal checks and balances, and that pisses me off.

I did not regret that decision. The country did well under him, even though he was abrasive and about as unpresidential in personality as you can get. We had a great economy going. He made a lot of progress in the Mid-East with Israel and her Arab neighbors, and he got Serbia and Kosovo to normalize economic relations. Those are 2 very sticky areas in global politics and he was productive in both.

And I will vote for him again, and will add that if the 2020 election was fair, I wouldn't have the opportunity to do that this year...

Your reasoning when you voted has a logic. I too, thought there were enough normal people to keep whichever in check. We were wrong. It's a damned shame, they both couldn't lose, but the two parties both play with home field advantage, so one of the two parties will win.

Whatever. Trump Administration officials, in FBI, DOJ, Homeland Security, the polls, the state houses, the courts, say it was fair and accurate. You just do not believe in the institutions of our government, or that the people chose, so you think nobody should. You are still beating your fists and tearing out your hair for Trump losing. Good luck. Get meds. Take meds. Try to keep calm.

I will vote Joe in November.

 

[para bellum]

Your reasoning when you voted has a logic. I too, thought there were enough normal people to keep whichever in check. We were wrong. It's a damned shame, they both couldn't lose, but the two parties both play with home field advantage, so one of the two parties will win.

The winner will be one or the other, but in D.C. the dems always have home field advantage.

Whatever. Trump Administration officials, in FBI, DOJ, Homeland Security, the polls, the state houses, the courts, say it was fair and accurate. You just do not believe in the institutions of our government, or that the people chose, so you think nobody should. You are still beating your fists and tearing out your hair for Trump losing. Good luck. Get meds. Take meds. Try to keep calm.

I will vote Joe in November.

Meh. The FBI and DOJ were out to get Trump since before the 2016 election. No elected official will ever say the election that put him in office was tainted. The courts wouldn't hear the complaints, they were dismissed on standing or some other technicality.

Biden is the anomaly, not Trump. Trump was a continuation of a trend that began in 1976 with the election of Jimmy Carter.

America is not a 67% turnout country. We are a 60-61% turnout country. The dems will try their shenanigans again this year, but the repubs are hopefully better prepared. We will see.

 

[White 6]

The winner will be one or the other, but in D.C. the dems always have home field advantage.

Meh. The FBI and DOJ were out to get Trump since before the 2016 election. No elected official will ever say the election that put him in office was tainted. The courts wouldn't hear the complaints, they were dismissed on standing or some other technicality.

Biden is the anomaly, not Trump. Trump was a continuation of a trend that began in 1976 with the election of Jimmy Carter.

America is not a 67% turnout country. We are a 60-61% turnout country. The dems will try their shenanigans again this year, but the repubs are hopefully better prepared. We will see.

Nope. Carter was elected, due to Nixon's pick to replace, pardoned Nixon.
Reagan followed Carter because Jimmy couldn't get lucky in the two-bit whorehouse with bag full of quarter. Trump is certainly no Reagan. I voted for Reagan twice and knew the difference in an instant, and so did you. I also vote George HW Bush and that turned out well. Trump is no HW Bush, as he does not support foreign policy, historic allies, does not stand against historic enemies, and loves any strongman that ever took autocratic power over their count.

Trump was elected as backlash against 8 years of Obama being elected to get us past the disaster the was the SonovaBush presidency. The 2020 election was just the realization of what kind of asshole replaced Obama, and further proved he needed replacing on his way out. So, now he will stay out, though possibly not out of jail or confinement.

I will vote Joe as clearly better for the long term goal of keeping elections controlled by the states to the people have a say, and the US not devolving into an autocratic kleptocracy, similar to Russia, ruled by a strongman, bent on destroying all the institutions of government that did not support his attempted stealing of the election, after it was decided at the polls, in the states by popular vote, ratified by the states and confirmed (whether he liked it or not) two months later, after the loser exhausted all recounts and contests allotted by law. Law and the Constitution. Those being two other things Trump does not support.

 

[para bellum]

Nope. Carter was elected, due to Nixon's pick to replace, pardoned Nixon.
Reagan followed Carter because Jimmy couldn't get lucky in the two-bit whorehouse with bag full of quarter. Trump is certainly no Reagan. I voted for Reagan twice and knew the difference in an instant, and so did you. I also vote George HW Bush and that turned out well. Trump is no HW Bush, as he does not support foreign policy, historic allies, does not stand against historic enemies, and loves any strongman that ever took autocratic power over their count.

You miss the bigger picture. From WW2 until Watergate, the US elected Washington D.C. insiders to the Oval. After Nixon and Watergate, the public attitude changed. Americans looked outside D.C., and we elected a string of Governors. Carter, Reagan, (Bush 41 was the exception to the rule- he was a Washington insider but he ran as Reagan's third term.) Clinton, Bush 43.

All of them ran against D.C. establishment insiders, and all of them won.

By the end of Bush 43, the wars, the banking disaster, the dysfunction in D.C.- we were getting tired of Governors who were starting to look too much like D.C. politicians. Obama came along and ran as the outsider. A nobody State Senator who went to the Senate for 2 years to make connections, but avoided all controversial votes. He was smooth, and promised he wasn't a typical politician. Americans listened to him and were impressed, and the D.C insider McCain was defeated easily. He went on to beat Romney, another establishment republican in his re-election bid.

Trump was the ultimate outsider, not even a politician but a businessman. No political experience at all. Once again, the D.C. insider (Hillary this time) was defeated.

By 2020 Trump was wildly popular. Everywhere he went, he drew huge crowds. He could do 5 rallies in a day and bring in 50-60K in every one, sometimes 3 times that- and the parking lots were filled with overflow. We've never seen that before.

Biden couldn't fill a set of bleachers in a High School Gymnasium. He would shout at empty parking lots.

No incumbent has ever gained votes in his re-election bid and gone on to lose the election. Trump gained more votes than any other President ever. (Maybe Reagan gained more than Trump in his second time? I will check that. Obama got fewer votes his second time around, but still defeated Romney).

Trump won 18 of the 19 Bellweather counties, and the "must win" States of Florida and Ohio. He was way ahead in all of the swing States except Arizona at the end of election night.

Biden was the ultimate D.C. establishment insider, 50 years of doing nothing else. Yet he somehow got 81 Million votes in the largest election turnout in our history. (an election that was decided in 6 States, with all kinds of late-night shenanigans going on in those counting rooms, and hundreds of millions in private money pumped directly into administering the election)

Call me a skeptic. Biden is the anomaly- not Trump. Trump was a continuation of a trend.

 

[White 6]

You miss the bigger picture. From WW2 until Watergate, the US elected Washington D.C. insiders to the Oval. After Nixon and Watergate, the public attitude changed. Americans looked outside D.C., and we elected a string of Governors. Carter, Reagan, (Bush 41 was the exception to the rule- he was a Washington insider but he ran as Reagan's third term.) Clinton, Bush 43.

All of them ran against D.C. establishment insiders, and all of them won.

By the end of Bush 43, the wars, the banking disaster, the dysfunction in D.C.- we were getting tired of Governors who were starting to look too much like D.C. politicians. Obama came along and ran as the outsider. A nobody State Senator who went to the Senate for 2 years to make connections, but avoided all controversial votes. He was smooth, and promised he wasn't a typical politician. Americans listened to him and were impressed, and the D.C insider McCain was defeated easily. He went on to beat Romney, another establishment republican in his re-election bid.

Trump was the ultimate outsider, not even a politician but a businessman. No political experience at all. Once again, the D.C. insider (Hillary this time) was defeated.

By 2020 Trump was wildly popular. Everywhere he went, he drew huge crowds. He could do 5 rallies in a day and bring in 50-60K in every one, sometimes 3 times that- and the parking lots were filled with overflow. We've never seen that before.

Biden couldn't fill a set of bleachers in a High School Gymnasium. He would shout at empty parking lots.

No incumbent has ever gained votes in his re-election bid and gone on to lose the election. Trump gained more votes than any other President ever. (Maybe Reagan gained more than Trump in his second time? I will check that. Obama got fewer votes his second time around, but still defeated Romney).

Trump won 18 of the 19 Bellweather counties, and the "must win" States of Florida and Ohio. He was way ahead in all of the swing States except Arizona at the end of election night.

Biden was the ultimate D.C. establishment insider, 50 years of doing nothing else. Yet he somehow got 81 Million votes in the largest election turnout in our history. (an election that was decided in 6 States, with all kinds of late-night shenanigans going on in those counting rooms, and hundreds of millions in private money pumped directly into administering the election)

Call me a skeptic. Biden is the anomaly- not Trump. Trump was a continuation of a trend.

You don't even seem to understand the factor that made McCain lose. You seem to have no realization of how Trump is different than any other person that has ever run for president. He is definitely the anomaly. I guess preference depends on whether you would like to see radical change in government, institutions, elections, etc, and think you have a way of predicting what it will make the country look like in years to come, after he would be gone. You seem kind of short-sighted to me, but do what you think best for you. I couldn't possibly go that way. I play the margin for security, and always have. It is the conservative bet, that wins over the years, not venturing into the unknown/unproven. I guess, I just think more like a conservative banker or financial planner, betting on standard investment practice, rather than carving out short term higher risk possible gains.

 

[AZrailwhale]

Possibly the stupidest question I have ever seen on this forum.

The power to direct the national resources and people of the United States of America to defeat the virus.

The power to save even one life? Trump directed US manufacturers to sell all of their PPE to China in January, keep none for American health care staff. He even change the trade rules to allow them to profit.

More than 2000 healthcare, American healthcare workers, lost their lives in the early days of the pandemic, due to a lack of PPE.

Trump had the power to save 2000 lives and threw it away.

The president doesn't have to power to tell a private company anything. The USA isn't Canada. Most PPE was made in China and the Chinese not only kept their entire production but paid premium prices to buy up whatever as available on the international market while declaring that Covid was capitalist propaganda, was not running rampant in China and allowing infected Chinese to travel all over the world.

 

[Dragonlady]

The president doesn't have to power to tell a private company anything. The USA isn't Canada. Most PPE was made in China and the Chinese not only kept their entire production but paid premium prices to buy up whatever as available on the international market while declaring that Covid was capitalist propaganda, was not running rampant in China and allowing infected Chinese to travel all over the world.

I never said that ANY of Trump's EO's were legal or valid. That didn't stop him from issuing them.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/health/us-sent-millions-of-face-masks-to-china-early-this-year-ignoring-pandemic-warning-signs/2020/04/18/aaccf54a-7ff5-11ea-8013-1b6da0e4a2b7_story.html

Trump attempted to stop 3M from selling masks to Canada:

Trump bans export of coronavirus protection gear, says he's 'not happy with 3M'

In a CNBC interview Friday morning, 3M CEO Mike Roman said it was "absurd" to suggest his company wasn't doing all it could to help the U.S. fight the coronavirus.

www.cnbc.com

https://www.politico.com/news/2020/04/04/coronavirus-canada-trudeau-china-164969

Trump's trade war exacerbated shortage of medical equipment

Filing for a tariff exemption with the trade office "is not well suited to meet the urgency of medical supply shortages,” said one expert.

www.nbcnews.com

But Trump did issue an executive order banning the sale of all vaccines outside the USA until the USA was fully vaccinated, and since that still has happened, this Order is still in force, as Biden didn't rescind it:

Federal Register :: Request Access

 

[para bellum]

You don't even seem to understand the factor that made McCain lose.

You can blame the financial collapse or war weariness, or whatever.

McCain lost because he was the establishment insider, running against the insurgent outsider. Hell, I am about as reliable a republican voter as they come, and even I voted for Bob Barr that election.

Americans haven't elected an establishment candidate since Nixon, with the exception of Bush 41 who I mentioned previously.

Ford
Mondale
Bush 41 (in 1992)
Dole
Gore
Kerry
McCain
Romney
Clinton (Hillary)

All the losers since 1976. All establishment insiders. The only loser who wasn't really an establishment candidate was Dukakis in 1988- and Bush 41 was a one-term POTUS who was defeated by an outsider from Arkansas.

Who has a worse approval rating than either Trump OR Biden? It's the US Congress...

Americans don't like D.C. and haven't for a long time...

Biden is the anomaly. Trump was the continuation of a trend, regardless of your personal opinion of him. The 2020 election went against all the conventional election wisdom, and in a very dramatic way. It's just not credible to think that Biden was so popular to get 81 Million votes, with the highest turnout in our nation's history, while winning fewer counties than Obama, who received 13 million fewer votes than Biden in his best election. It defies all logic.

 

[White 6]

You can blame the financial collapse or war weariness, or whatever.

McCain lost because he was the establishment insider, running against the insurgent outsider. Hell, I am about as reliable a republican voter as they come, and even I voted for Bob Barr that election.

Americans haven't elected an establishment candidate since Nixon, with the exception of Bush 41 who I mentioned previously.

Ford
Mondale
Bush 41 (in 1992)
Dole
Gore
Kerry
McCain
Romney
Clinton (Hillary)

All the losers since 1976. All establishment insiders. The only loser who wasn't really an establishment candidate was Dukakis in 1988- and Bush 41 was a one-term POTUS who was defeated by an outsider from Arkansas.

Who has a worse approval rating than either Trump OR Biden? It's the US Congress...

Americans don't like D.C. and haven't for a long time...

Biden is the anomaly. Trump was the continuation of a trend, regardless of your personal opinion of him. The 2020 election went against all the conventional election wisdom, and in a very dramatic way. It's just not credible to think that Biden was so popular to get 81 Million votes, with the highest turnout in our nation's history, while winning fewer counties than Obama, who received 13 million fewer votes than Biden in his best election. It defies all logic.

Nah. He lost for a combination of Bush crash and letting himself be saddled with the Thrilla from Wasilla. I liked him fine and would have voted for him anyway, but with his medical background, there was no way I could vote to turn the country over the half-term crazy Alaskan Governor. But, Obama did not turn out bad for the country. I had no problem voting Obama against Mitt.

Nobody votes on other people's approval polls, or maybe that is just independents being independent.

In the end, there simply will not be enough people to vote to turn the country over to trump, due to the probable long term effects, based on what your candidate has announced. Trumpers will tell you, he does what he says he will do, and that will scare off normal people and independents.

 

[Dragonlady]

You can blame the financial collapse or war weariness, or whatever.

McCain lost because he was the establishment insider, running against the insurgent outsider. Hell, I am about as reliable a republican voter as they come, and even I voted for Bob Barr that election.

Americans haven't elected an establishment candidate since Nixon, with the exception of Bush 41 who I mentioned previously.

Ford
Mondale
Bush 41 (in 1992)
Dole
Gore
Kerry
McCain
Romney
Clinton (Hillary)

All the losers since 1976. All establishment insiders. The only loser who wasn't really an establishment candidate was Dukakis in 1988- and Bush 41 was a one-term POTUS who was defeated by an outsider from Arkansas.

Who has a worse approval rating than either Trump OR Biden? It's the US Congress...

Americans don't like D.C. and haven't for a long time...

Biden is the anomaly. Trump was the continuation of a trend, regardless of your personal opinion of him. The 2020 election went against all the conventional election wisdom, and in a very dramatic way. It's just not credible to think that Biden was so popular to get 81 Million votes, with the highest turnout in our nation's history, while winning fewer counties than Obama, who received 13 million fewer votes than Biden in his best election. It defies all logic.

It doesn't defy ANY logic at all.

Population of the USA IN 2012 - 313.9 million -
Population of the USA IN 2020 - 329.5 million -
Urban population 254. million 81% Rural population 59.9 million in 2012
Urban population 294 million 87% Rural Population 35.5 milion in 2020.

Urban areas tend to vote Democrat and rural areas Republican. 40 million more people living in the cities and towns than they were when Obama last ran for Presidentm while the rural population declined by more than 24 million people. More and more people are living in the cities and towns and as soon as they do, they want government services, good schools, clean water and air.

So yeah. Trump COULD win more counties than Obama in 2012 and still lose the General by 7 million votes because there are 24 million fewer people are now living in rural America. Especially with gerrymandering.