RetiredGySgt
Diamond Member
Quit trolling or I will report you.
Church shooter stopped by armed citizen today? Lives saved by good guy with a gun?
- Thread starter 2aguy
- Start date
LoneLaugher
Diamond Member
Oh no! Anything but that! Please!
Pilot1
Gold Member
- May 3, 2018
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Naa. He's great comic relief! It's good to see the Left admits they don't value innocent lives, and are fine with crazed criminals killing as many people as they want with no resistance. That's what Stalin, Hitler, Mau, Pol Pot, and their other hero Che Guevara banked on!
LoneLaugher
Diamond Member
Two innocent people were killed in a church. You are celebrating the event as a win for gun rights.
Prove me wrong.
beagle9
Diamond Member
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Ok, then go after the bad guy's with gun's, but leave the good guy's the heck alone with their gun's. Simple.
beagle9
Diamond Member
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Yep, celebrating the fact that leftist have been proven wrong about good guy's with guns. That's always great news.
LoneLaugher
Diamond Member
OK.
beagle9
Diamond Member
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No you stop the bullcrap, because not all potential shootings that were thwarted because the target was hardoned or secure is polled or tallied. When you can fight that statistic, then you come back to play some more, until then quit imagining things in the way you think they are or should be when there not. Good people with the means to defend themselves keep this place from blowing up, just remember that.
harmonica
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hahahhahaha--so you want to do the same = make up pretend stats
hahahahhahahah
2aguy
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No.....really? You mean the fact that the British police state to their press that they can't stop the increasing flow of illegal guns into the island nation is just fairy tales?
And bad guys? They attack the old, the weak, women, and they attack in large enough numbers to over come the good guys......how hard is it for a criminal, an aggressive, violent male with a knife to kidnap, rape, torture and kill a woman? How hard is it for a 17 year old criminal to hit a senior citizen with a hammer?
Do you asshats think this through...ever?
Mass public shootings in 2018.....12. Total Killed....93. Rape, robbery and murder, the most common type of crime do not require guns to be successful....stopping rape, robbery and murder as a normal person....require a gun...because normal people don't spend the majority of their time training to stop a violent attack, and even if they did, the odds of fighting off a violent criminal are, on a good day, about 50-50 if you are having that good day.
You asshats have no idea about human nature, human history, or physical violence......
2aguy
Diamond Member
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- #231
IMO, how the Christians are deciding to deal with the in-saneness the society is degrading to in Texas in their churches is a much better strategy, than how the Jews are deciding to deal with it in their synagogues in NY.
As the stress of our everyday life continues to get more insane, I would expect more of this, leave everyone alone, the press should keep their opinions and propaganda to themselves.
Why the corporate media should be pushing the Jewish strategy on the nation, when any sane person can see which is the better strategy is beyond me. . . .
And yet violent crime since the 1990s is down 72%...gun murder down 49%, and gun crime is down 75%..........
harmonica
Diamond Member
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..this is like the ''there is a god'' argument ==they can't PROVE there is a god
..and there is no proof/documentation/etc for that many SD uses
2aguy
Diamond Member
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- #233
I think that is a mistake......the information I have at my fingertips is a direct result of engaging these idiots on a daily basis....I would not have the statistics, stories, truth, facts or reality that I have if I ignored these morons...........
You don't reveal truth by ignoring the ignorant.......
2aguy
Diamond Member
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- #235
The research is vast and comprehensive.....you have to deny it because you can't back up what you say...
A quick guide to the studies and the numbers.....the full lay out of what was studied by each study is in the links....
The name of the group doing the study, the year of the study, the number of defensive gun uses and if police and military defensive gun uses are included.....notice the bill clinton and obama defensive gun use research is highlighted.....
GunCite-Gun Control-How Often Are Guns Used in Self-Defense
GunCite Frequency of Defensive Gun Use in Previous Surveys
Field...1976....3,052,717 ( no cops, no military)
DMIa 1978...2,141,512 ( no cops, no military)
L.A. TIMES...1994...3,609,68 ( no cops, no military)
Kleck......1994...2.5 million ( no cops, no military)
CDC...1996-1998... 1.1 million averaged over those years.( no cops, no military)
Obama's CDC....2013....500,000--3million
--------------------
Bordua...1977...1,414,544
DMIb...1978...1,098,409 ( no cops, no military)
Hart...1981...1.797,461 ( no cops, no military)
Mauser...1990...1,487,342 ( no cops,no military)
Gallup...1993...1,621,377 ( no cops, no military)
DEPT. OF JUSTICE...1994...1.5 million ( the bill clinton study)
Journal of Quantitative Criminology--- 989,883 times per year."
(Based on survey data from a 2000 study published in the Journal of Quantitative Criminology,[17] U.S. civilians use guns to defend themselves and others from crime at least 989,883 times per year.[18])
Paper: "Measuring Civilian Defensive Firearm Use: A Methodological Experiment." By David McDowall and others. Journal of Quantitative Criminology, March 2000. Measuring Civilian Defensive Firearm Use: A Methodological Experiment - Springer
-------------------------------------------
Ohio...1982...771,043
Gallup...1991...777,152
Tarrance... 1994... 764,036 (no cops, no military)
Lawerence Southwich Jr. 400,000 fewer violent crimes and at least 800,000 violent crimes deterred..
Self defense with a gun:
Why don't we have a hard number on this....?
Estimates On Defensive Firearm Use Pose A Major Problem. Here's Why.
When a gun owner presents a firearm during a threat to their life, they often don’t even need to pull the trigger. After all, a criminal with a knife or a hammer or something else will rarely decide the few dollars in someone’s wallet is worth being killed over.
As a result, even if the police are called—and they’re often not, which I’ll get into in a bit—there’s nothing for the FBI or other law enforcement to track except for the initial robbery attempt.
And, again, that assumes the police are called. Often, gun owners don’t pick up the phone.
This failure to call the police is often cited by anti-gun crusaders as evidence that it didn’t really happen. However, it’s simply not true. The gun community has plenty of stories of people who appear to have done everything right, only to become the target of an overzealous police department or prosecutor. While these folks usually end up in the clear, it’s a long, arduous, and expensive ordeal.
As the meme says, “Ain’t nobody got time for that.”
So, many continue to just go about their day. No shots were fired, so why risk it?
And even if the police are called, it doesn’t guarantee that a report will be generated. I’ve personally seen that happen, as well.
The result of all of this is a real problem in tracking self-defense statistics. We only have estimates, which vary wildly.
However, it still bears noting that even the most conservative estimates of defensive gun uses are several times higher than the number of firearm-related fatalities, even if you continue to add in suicide statistics, which anti-gunners are fond of doing.
Take those out and the difference is an even starker contrast.
And here we have studies that show that guns are the most effective way to stop a rape.....
Guns Effective Defense Against Rape
A woman using a gun is less likely to be raped and more likely to not be injured during the attack....
Guns Effective Defense Against Rape
However, most recent studies with improved methodology are consistently showing that the more forceful the resistance, the lower the risk of a completed rape, with no increase in physical injury. Sarah Ullman's original research (Journal of Interpersonal Violence, 1998) and critical review of past studies (Criminal Justice and Behavior, 1997) are especially valuable in solidifying this conclusion.
I wish to single out one particular subtype of physical resistance: Use of a weapon, and especially a firearm, is statistically a woman's best means of resistance, greatly enhancing her odds of escaping both rape and injury, compared to any other strategy of physical or verbal resistance. This conclusion is drawn from four types of information.
First, a 1989 study (Furby, Journal of Interpersonal Violence) found that both male and female survey respondents judged a gun to be the most effective means that a potential rape victim could use to fend off the assault. Rape "experts" considered it a close second, after eye-gouging.
Second, raw data from the 1979-1985 installments of the Justice Department's annual National Crime Victim Survey show that when a woman resists a stranger rape with a gun, the probability of completion was 0.1 percent and of victim injury 0.0 percent, compared to 31 percent and 40 percent, respectively, for all stranger rapes (Kleck, Social Problems, 1990).
Third, a recent paper (Southwick, Journal of Criminal Justice, 2000) analyzed victim resistance to violent crimes generally, with robbery, aggravated assault and rape considered together. Women who resisted with a gun were 2.5 times more likely to escape without injury than those who did not resist and 4 times more likely to escape uninjured than those who resisted with any means other than a gun. Similarly, their property losses in a robbery were reduced more than six-fold and almost three-fold, respectively, compared to the other categories of resistance strategy.
Fourth, we have two studies in the last 20 years that directly address the outcomes of women who resist attempted rape with a weapon. (Lizotte, Journal of Quantitative Criminology, 1986; Kleck, Social Problems, 1990.) The former concludes,"Further, women who resist rape with a gun or knife dramatically decrease their probability of completion." (Lizotte did not analyze victim injuries apart from the rape itself.) The latter concludes that "resistance with a gun or knife is the most effective form of resistance for preventing completion of a rape"; this is accomplished "without creating any significant additional risk of other injury."
The best conclusion from available scientific data, then, is when avoidance of rape has failed and one must choose between being raped and resisting, a woman's best option is to resist with a gun in her hands.
2aguy
Diamond Member
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- #236
It was a win for good people......
Russian Polytechnic shooter with a shotgun........no armed citizens.
20 dead, 70 injured....
Texas Church shooting, attacker with a shotgun....armed citizens....
2 dead, no injuries....
Can you tell which number is bigger? You can take your shoes off to do the computing....
harmonica
Diamond Member
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plain and simple--no documentation or proof of MILLIONS of SD uses
2aguy
Diamond Member
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- #238
Just about 30 years of government and private research into the issue...you mean other than that...?
A quick guide to the studies and the numbers.....the full lay out of what was studied by each study is in the links....
The name of the group doing the study, the year of the study, the number of defensive gun uses and if police and military defensive gun uses are included.....notice the bill clinton and obama defensive gun use research is highlighted.....
GunCite-Gun Control-How Often Are Guns Used in Self-Defense
GunCite Frequency of Defensive Gun Use in Previous Surveys
Field...1976....3,052,717 ( no cops, no military)
DMIa 1978...2,141,512 ( no cops, no military)
L.A. TIMES...1994...3,609,68 ( no cops, no military)
Kleck......1994...2.5 million ( no cops, no military)
CDC...1996-1998... 1.1 million averaged over those years.( no cops, no military)
Obama's CDC....2013....500,000--3million
--------------------
Bordua...1977...1,414,544
DMIb...1978...1,098,409 ( no cops, no military)
Hart...1981...1.797,461 ( no cops, no military)
Mauser...1990...1,487,342 ( no cops,no military)
Gallup...1993...1,621,377 ( no cops, no military)
DEPT. OF JUSTICE...1994...1.5 million ( the bill clinton study)
Journal of Quantitative Criminology--- 989,883 times per year."
(Based on survey data from a 2000 study published in the Journal of Quantitative Criminology,[17] U.S. civilians use guns to defend themselves and others from crime at least 989,883 times per year.[18])
Paper: "Measuring Civilian Defensive Firearm Use: A Methodological Experiment." By David McDowall and others. Journal of Quantitative Criminology, March 2000. Measuring Civilian Defensive Firearm Use: A Methodological Experiment - Springer
-------------------------------------------
Ohio...1982...771,043
Gallup...1991...777,152
Tarrance... 1994... 764,036 (no cops, no military)
Lawerence Southwich Jr. 400,000 fewer violent crimes and at least 800,000 violent crimes deterred..
Self defense with a gun:
Why don't we have a hard number on this....?
Estimates On Defensive Firearm Use Pose A Major Problem. Here's Why.
When a gun owner presents a firearm during a threat to their life, they often don’t even need to pull the trigger. After all, a criminal with a knife or a hammer or something else will rarely decide the few dollars in someone’s wallet is worth being killed over.
As a result, even if the police are called—and they’re often not, which I’ll get into in a bit—there’s nothing for the FBI or other law enforcement to track except for the initial robbery attempt.
And, again, that assumes the police are called. Often, gun owners don’t pick up the phone.
This failure to call the police is often cited by anti-gun crusaders as evidence that it didn’t really happen. However, it’s simply not true. The gun community has plenty of stories of people who appear to have done everything right, only to become the target of an overzealous police department or prosecutor. While these folks usually end up in the clear, it’s a long, arduous, and expensive ordeal.
As the meme says, “Ain’t nobody got time for that.”
So, many continue to just go about their day. No shots were fired, so why risk it?
And even if the police are called, it doesn’t guarantee that a report will be generated. I’ve personally seen that happen, as well.
The result of all of this is a real problem in tracking self-defense statistics. We only have estimates, which vary wildly.
However, it still bears noting that even the most conservative estimates of defensive gun uses are several times higher than the number of firearm-related fatalities, even if you continue to add in suicide statistics, which anti-gunners are fond of doing.
Take those out and the difference is an even starker contrast.
And here we have studies that show that guns are the most effective way to stop a rape.....
Guns Effective Defense Against Rape
A woman using a gun is less likely to be raped and more likely to not be injured during the attack....
Guns Effective Defense Against Rape
However, most recent studies with improved methodology are consistently showing that the more forceful the resistance, the lower the risk of a completed rape, with no increase in physical injury. Sarah Ullman's original research (Journal of Interpersonal Violence, 1998) and critical review of past studies (Criminal Justice and Behavior, 1997) are especially valuable in solidifying this conclusion.
I wish to single out one particular subtype of physical resistance: Use of a weapon, and especially a firearm, is statistically a woman's best means of resistance, greatly enhancing her odds of escaping both rape and injury, compared to any other strategy of physical or verbal resistance. This conclusion is drawn from four types of information.
First, a 1989 study (Furby, Journal of Interpersonal Violence) found that both male and female survey respondents judged a gun to be the most effective means that a potential rape victim could use to fend off the assault. Rape "experts" considered it a close second, after eye-gouging.
Second, raw data from the 1979-1985 installments of the Justice Department's annual National Crime Victim Survey show that when a woman resists a stranger rape with a gun, the probability of completion was 0.1 percent and of victim injury 0.0 percent, compared to 31 percent and 40 percent, respectively, for all stranger rapes (Kleck, Social Problems, 1990).
Third, a recent paper (Southwick, Journal of Criminal Justice, 2000) analyzed victim resistance to violent crimes generally, with robbery, aggravated assault and rape considered together. Women who resisted with a gun were 2.5 times more likely to escape without injury than those who did not resist and 4 times more likely to escape uninjured than those who resisted with any means other than a gun. Similarly, their property losses in a robbery were reduced more than six-fold and almost three-fold, respectively, compared to the other categories of resistance strategy.
Fourth, we have two studies in the last 20 years that directly address the outcomes of women who resist attempted rape with a weapon. (Lizotte, Journal of Quantitative Criminology, 1986; Kleck, Social Problems, 1990.) The former concludes,"Further, women who resist rape with a gun or knife dramatically decrease their probability of completion." (Lizotte did not analyze victim injuries apart from the rape itself.) The latter concludes that "resistance with a gun or knife is the most effective form of resistance for preventing completion of a rape"; this is accomplished "without creating any significant additional risk of other injury."
The best conclusion from available scientific data, then, is when avoidance of rape has failed and one must choose between being raped and resisting, a woman's best option is to resist with a gun in her hands.
toobfreak
Tungsten/Glass Member
You don't gain knowledge from the ignorant. You only exhaust yourself arguing by allowing them to bring you down to their level then beat you over the head with experience. All the facts in the world will never change one of their minds, and those that know you are right already agree with you. You reveal truth by revealing the truth, not arguing with those intent on denying it at any cost. Arguing with the infantile mind is nothing more than an ego-saving vanity of trying to prove to yourself you know more than they do. That's a given.
2aguy
Diamond Member
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- #240
I am not gaining knowledge from them, I am finding information based on exposing their ignorance......you can't expose ignorance if you hide from those who are ignorant. That is why I don't put these morons on ignore.....
If I ignored them, I wouldn't have found near the information that I have found over the years....
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