Church denies funeral to gay man

[Vandalshandle]

Well, then, Arche, we have a lot of work to do. It has been thousands of years since we have followed the Bible's directive that we stone a woman for gathering sticks on the Sabbath.... We need to make up for lost time. (VH)
Click to expand...
"And that would be where in the Bible? Don't tell me what you think it says, show me" (Arche))



Wow, Arche, for a person who is a self professed authority on God's will, you sure have missed a lot of Sunday school!


Why was a man killed for gathering sticks on the Sabbath? | Christian Apologetics and Research Ministry

 

[Andylusion]

Well, then, Arche, we have a lot of work to do. It has been thousands of years since we have followed the Bible's directive that we stone a woman for gathering sticks on the Sabbath.... We need to make up for lost time. (VH)
Click to expand...
"And that would be where in the Bible? Don't tell me what you think it says, show me" (Androw)



Wow, Androw, for a person who is a self professed authority on God's will, you sure have missed a lot of Sunday school!


Why was a man killed for gathering sticks on the Sabbath? | Christian Apologetics and Research Ministry

I didn't say that. Now you are a flat out liar.

 

[Andylusion]

What's your answer? I'd love to know what you think the solution is.

I see no point in addressing your question, considering you attack anyone with a contrary view even when they provide sound reasoning as I have above.

You have no interest in rational discussion, so there is no need for you to pretend otherwise.

copout - definition of copout by The Free Dictionary

cop-out also cop·out (k

p

out

)
n. Slang
1. A failure to fulfill a commitment or responsibility or to face a difficulty squarely.
2. A person who fails to fulfill a commitment or responsibility.
3. An excuse for inaction or evasion.

 

[Vandalshandle]

Well, then, Arche, we have a lot of work to do. It has been thousands of years since we have followed the Bible's directive that we stone a woman for gathering sticks on the Sabbath.... We need to make up for lost time. (VH)
Click to expand...
"And that would be where in the Bible? Don't tell me what you think it says, show me" (Androw)



Wow, Androw, for a person who is a self professed authority on God's will, you sure have missed a lot of Sunday school!


Why was a man killed for gathering sticks on the Sabbath? | Christian Apologetics and Research Ministry

I didn't say that. Now you are a flat out liar.

My mistake, Androw. I corrected it. It was Arche who said it.

 

[House]

What's your answer? I'd love to know what you think the solution is.

I see no point in addressing your question, considering you attack anyone with a contrary view even when they provide sound reasoning as I have above.

You have no interest in rational discussion, so there is no need for you to pretend otherwise.

copout - definition of copout by The Free Dictionary

cop-out also cop·out (k

p

out

)
n. Slang
1. A failure to fulfill a commitment or responsibility or to face a difficulty squarely.
2. A person who fails to fulfill a commitment or responsibility.
3. An excuse for inaction or evasion.

Precisely what your evasiveness has been. Thanks for proving my point.

 

[Book of Jeremiah]

I think that it goes without saying that Androw goes to a very small church.

The size of a church is irrelevant. God is everywhere His name is worshiped.

I believe the size of a church is relevant because many of the mega churches are preaching a wide road gospel - a false gospel - prosperity message - that God is not in - there are also churches where the Spirit of the LORD has departed, House. He is no longer there and no one has even yet to notice. Sad but true.

Do you remember when God said, These people praise me with their lips but their hearts are far from me? That still goes on today.

 

[Book of Jeremiah]

Gee a made up internet sign to hide behind. Gee, now we know what a weak little ***** you really are.

My bible says, God is angry with the wicked every day. What book are you reading?

 

[House]

Do you remember when God said, These people praise me with their lips but their hearts are far from me? That still goes on today.

I totally agree, but not every member of a corrupt church is corrupt themselves. Some could well be misled and without the capacity to discern truth from falsehood.

I cannot see God turning His back on those who have sought Him simply because their preacher was a hypocrite.

 

[Andylusion]

What's your answer? I'd love to know what you think the solution is.

I see no point in addressing your question, considering you attack anyone with a contrary view even when they provide sound reasoning as I have above.

You have no interest in rational discussion, so there is no need for you to pretend otherwise.

copout - definition of copout by The Free Dictionary

cop-out also cop·out (k

p

out

)
n. Slang
1. A failure to fulfill a commitment or responsibility or to face a difficulty squarely.
2. A person who fails to fulfill a commitment or responsibility.
3. An excuse for inaction or evasion.

Precisely what your evasiveness has been. Thanks for proving my point.

So let me get this straight... to prove your moral superiority, while claiming I'm a hypocrite, you decided to do exactly what you claim I did.

I assume you know the definition of hypocrite, right?

 

[Book of Jeremiah]

No no no no.... Wrong. Read my comments again.
--
My Bible says X is wrong. If I find someone in my church living in such a way, that violates what that book says..... they are out.

If they are sleeping with their girl friend, and say "it's who I am". They are gone.

If they are cheating on their wife, and say "it's who I am". They are gone.

If they are married to another man, and say "it's who I am". They are gone.
---

If you go to my CHURCH.... and you proclaim yourself a Christian going to our Christian Church... in doing so, you represent our Church. If you intentionally live a life that is completely contrary to what the church says, and give some excuse like "well it's who I am" or such... those people, SPECIFICALLY, those people, are gone.

If you show up and say "I have sinned, and I repent of my evil ways", that person stays. The Church is made for the those seeking forgiveness.

Now OUTSIDE of the church, in "my life" as you said... not true at all. I have many friends that are not Christians, don't pretend to be Christians, don't believe the Bible, some are 100% atheist, others are of different faiths like Muslim and so on... No problem.

A non-Christian, living as a Non-Christian is expected. I have no problem with that at all. I could sit down with you, who doesn't believe in Christianity (according to your prior posts), and have lunch, chat and talk, and that wouldn't bother me one bit. Why? Because you are not pretending to be Christian.

You could even come to my Church, if you wanted to (not saying you would), and that wouldn't bother anyone one bit either.

But now if you come and say, 'I'm a Christian! But I'm still going to live exactly as I did before in some clearly sinful lifestyle, and I am not going to change, because it's who I am.' then you are out.

That's where the problem come in. When you proclaim yourself a Christian in our Church, and yet blatantly refuse to accept Christian belief system, then we have a problem.

Again, it's like joining up with PETA, and then refusing to stop eating meat. You are not going to be a member long. When you are a member, you represent PETA to the rest of the world. You go around a the Japanese Steak House, and flashing your PETA membership to everyone, you are not going to be a member long.

All groups, all organizations of all types, operate this way. If you want to be a member, you have to follow the rules of membership. Christianity is the same. And I don't know of any organization that expects non-members to follow the rules they do... until you join them.

Okay, I agree that if you are going to be a member of a church with those beliefs then you should do your best to abide by them or do not become a member. However, I don't think that people plan for these "sins" in most cases, and that these are things that happen due to other underlying issues.

Then we're talking about two different things.

There was a guy who cheated on his wife, and was a member of the choir.

The guy was devastated by it. Totally messed up. He repented. He left the choir of his own choice. He got some help, and such. He reconciled with his wife. (this wasn't like over the weekend, it was a long deal), but now he's back in the Choir.

We're not talking about that.

We're talking about the dude who says "Well... this is who I am, and I'm not going to stop". These people are 'planning to sin'. They are not repentant. They are not going to change. They fully intend to keep doing what they are doing, and they don't care what the Church says, what the Bible says, or what G-d says.

That's who I'm talking about when I say they are gone.

Responding to Androw's last comment here - that is 100% accurate. To hear House tell it the Apostle Paul was hateful for his judgment in 1 Corinthians 5:9 -13 and yet this is the command of the Holy Spirit - as Paul not being present had judged the immoral brother - in the spirit - as if he had been present. Amen? See 1 Corinthians 5: 1 - 4

It is written:

It is reported commonly that there is fornication among you, and such fornication as is not much as named among the Gentiles, that one should have his father's wife. And ye are puffed up about it, and have not rather mourned, that he that hath done this deed might be taken away from among you.

For I verily, as absent in body, but present in spirit, have judged already, as though I was present, concerning him that hath so done this deed. In the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, when ye are gathered together, and my spirit, with the power of our Lord Jesus Christ. To deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of his flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus Christ. Your glorying is not good. Know ye not that a little leaven leaveneth the whole lump? Purge out therefore the old leaven, neither with the leaven of malice and wickedness, but with the unleavened bread of sincerity and truth. 1 Corinthians 5: 1 - 8

This is new testament teaching. Why does the church have unbelievers attending their churches? Why are their satanists in the pulpits - witches leading their prayer meetings / bible studies and all of this going on without anyone aware? I will tell you why. The Holy Spirit is not in some churches - the gift of discernment does not operate among those living in sin and compromise such as we see here in the Corinthian church - God's people are perishing for lack of knowledge - there is an apostasy which has come and is still ongoing within the body of Christ and it is best to come out from among them and be ye separated. The gospel of prosperity is a false gospel. These ones have a form of godliness but deny the power thereof - of such stay away!

The world has no part in prayer meetings and private meetings of the believers. None whatsoever. The body of Christ is to go out into the world to preach the Gospel. Not bring them inside our own meetings. We must ask ourselves this question also - when did this practice begin? There is no scriptural basis for it. None.

 

[House]

What's your answer? I'd love to know what you think the solution is.

I see no point in addressing your question, considering you attack anyone with a contrary view even when they provide sound reasoning as I have above.

You have no interest in rational discussion, so there is no need for you to pretend otherwise.

copout - definition of copout by The Free Dictionary

cop-out also cop·out (k

p

out

)
n. Slang
1. A failure to fulfill a commitment or responsibility or to face a difficulty squarely.
2. A person who fails to fulfill a commitment or responsibility.
3. An excuse for inaction or evasion.

Precisely what your evasiveness has been. Thanks for proving my point.

So let me get this straight... to prove your moral superiority, while claiming I'm a hypocrite, you decided to do exactly what you claim I did.

I assume you know the definition of hypocrite, right?

Ignoring your evasion isn't an evasion. You're the one that dodged, I'm just holding your feet to the fire for it.

 

[ChrisL]

No no no no.... Wrong. Read my comments again.
--
My Bible says X is wrong. If I find someone in my church living in such a way, that violates what that book says..... they are out.

If they are sleeping with their girl friend, and say "it's who I am". They are gone.

If they are cheating on their wife, and say "it's who I am". They are gone.

If they are married to another man, and say "it's who I am". They are gone.
---

If you go to my CHURCH.... and you proclaim yourself a Christian going to our Christian Church... in doing so, you represent our Church. If you intentionally live a life that is completely contrary to what the church says, and give some excuse like "well it's who I am" or such... those people, SPECIFICALLY, those people, are gone.

If you show up and say "I have sinned, and I repent of my evil ways", that person stays. The Church is made for the those seeking forgiveness.

Now OUTSIDE of the church, in "my life" as you said... not true at all. I have many friends that are not Christians, don't pretend to be Christians, don't believe the Bible, some are 100% atheist, others are of different faiths like Muslim and so on... No problem.

A non-Christian, living as a Non-Christian is expected. I have no problem with that at all. I could sit down with you, who doesn't believe in Christianity (according to your prior posts), and have lunch, chat and talk, and that wouldn't bother me one bit. Why? Because you are not pretending to be Christian.

You could even come to my Church, if you wanted to (not saying you would), and that wouldn't bother anyone one bit either.

But now if you come and say, 'I'm a Christian! But I'm still going to live exactly as I did before in some clearly sinful lifestyle, and I am not going to change, because it's who I am.' then you are out.

That's where the problem come in. When you proclaim yourself a Christian in our Church, and yet blatantly refuse to accept Christian belief system, then we have a problem.

Again, it's like joining up with PETA, and then refusing to stop eating meat. You are not going to be a member long. When you are a member, you represent PETA to the rest of the world. You go around a the Japanese Steak House, and flashing your PETA membership to everyone, you are not going to be a member long.

All groups, all organizations of all types, operate this way. If you want to be a member, you have to follow the rules of membership. Christianity is the same. And I don't know of any organization that expects non-members to follow the rules they do... until you join them.

Okay, I agree that if you are going to be a member of a church with those beliefs then you should do your best to abide by them or do not become a member. However, I don't think that people plan for these "sins" in most cases, and that these are things that happen due to other underlying issues.

Then we're talking about two different things.

There was a guy who cheated on his wife, and was a member of the choir.

The guy was devastated by it. Totally messed up. He repented. He left the choir of his own choice. He got some help, and such. He reconciled with his wife. (this wasn't like over the weekend, it was a long deal), but now he's back in the Choir.

We're not talking about that.

We're talking about the dude who says "Well... this is who I am, and I'm not going to stop". These people are 'planning to sin'. They are not repentant. They are not going to change. They fully intend to keep doing what they are doing, and they don't care what the Church says, what the Bible says, or what G-d says.

That's who I'm talking about when I say they are gone.

Responding to Androw's last comment here - that is 100% accurate. To hear House tell it the Apostle Paul was hateful for his judgment in 1 Corinthians 5:9 -13 and yet this is the command of the Holy Spirit - as Paul not being present had judged the immoral brother - in the spirit - as if he had been present. Amen? See 1 Corinthians 5: 1 - 4

It is written:

It is reported commonly that there is fornication among you, and such fornication as is not much as named among the Gentiles, that one should have his father's wife. And ye are puffed up about it, and have not rather mourned, that he that hath done this deed might be taken away from among you.

For I verily, as absent in body, but present in spirit, have judged already, as though I was present, concerning him that hath so done this deed. In the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, when ye are gathered together, and my spirit, with the power of our Lord Jesus Christ. To deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of his flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus Christ. Your glorying is not good. Know ye not that a little leaven leaveneth the whole lump? Purge out therefore the old leaven, neither with the leaven of malice and wickedness, but with the unleavened bread of sincerity and truth. 1 Corinthians 5: 1 - 8

This is new testament teaching. Why does the church have unbelievers attending their churches? Why are their satanists in the pulpits - witches leading their prayer meetings / bible studies and all of this going on without anyone aware? I will tell you why. The Holy Spirit is not in some churches - the gift of discernment does not operate among those living in sin and compromise such as we see here in the Corinthian church - God's people are perishing for lack of knowledge - there is an apostasy which has come and is still ongoing within the body of Christ and it is best to come out from among them and be ye separated. The gospel of prosperity is a false gospel. These ones have a form of godliness but deny the power thereof - of such stay away!

The world has no part in prayer meetings and private meetings of the believers. None whatsoever. The body of Christ is to go out into the world to preach the Gospel. Not bring them inside our own meetings. We must ask ourselves this question also - when did this practice begin? There is no scriptural basis for it. None.

I don't care what your "teachings" are. It is CRUEL to turn this mom away and refuse to hold a funeral for her son. Why can't you people let GOD decide? Why do you have to be cruel to the grieving mom?

 

[ChrisL]

I think that it goes without saying that Androw goes to a very small church.

The size of a church is irrelevant. God is everywhere His name is worshiped.

I believe the size of a church is relevant because many of the mega churches are preaching a wide road gospel - a false gospel - prosperity message - that God is not in - there are also churches where the Spirit of the LORD has departed, House. He is no longer there and no one has even yet to notice. Sad but true.

Do you remember when God said, These people praise me with their lips but their hearts are far from me? That still goes on today.

That was not what his comment was supposed to mean. It means that it is a VERY exclusive club. IOW, some of your expectations are impossible for flawed humans to live up to.

 

[koshergrl]

It wasn't cruel. It was deceptive of the gay dead dude's family to try to pass one off on their church. If they're members in good standing, they knew they were being dishonest and if they aren't, then they have not right to expect consideration in the first place.

 

[koshergrl]

I love how the anti-Christians believe that the sole purpose of Christians is to accede to whatever demand is made of them, in whatever context, from whomever..and who maintain that unless we behave as the willing slaves of the depraved, we aren't *good* Christians. What utter hogwash.

 

[Book of Jeremiah]

Do you remember when God said, These people praise me with their lips but their hearts are far from me? That still goes on today.

I totally agree, but not every member of a corrupt church is corrupt themselves. Some could well be misled and without the capacity to discern truth from falsehood.

I cannot see God turning His back on those who have sought Him simply because their preacher was a hypocrite.

I didn't read this entire thread - it is far too long for me and I have no interest in what the modern church is up to, House. But let me say this, I agree with you that not every member in a corrupt church is corrupt themselves. Do you know what happens to those members? They become the target of the hypocrite in the pulpit who is revolted by the sight of someone living holy before their eyes, lifting up holy hands in the congregation to worship God in spirit and in truth. They become the entertainment for sermons which thinly veil said individual so that other members can be forewarned not to have any company with them lest they also become vilified like the sister or brother who is being targeted before their very eyes. Then what happens is the LORD upholds that servant who was sent in there to remind the hypocrite later on in the judgment of why he is being cast into hell with the unbeliever. All things work together for good for the servant in that they suffer through this until the LORD releases them and they are able to go home and get a reprieve for awhile until they are required to attend yet another one of these places and watch with horror what goes on inside.

People think they go to an altar and confess their sins and accept Jesus and that is the end of it. No. That is the beginning. The trouble is that is where many think it ends so they go no futher. It is what it is.

I will tell you that in the Church of Sardis Jesus had a few that had not defiled their garments - a few were saved - the rest didn't make it - the same thing will happen in church after church after church after church - a remnant will be saved - a remnant is tiny, House. Ever seen a remnant of fabric after a the bolt of fabric has been used for some sewing project? Not much left, House. Not much left. There is a remnant and that is about it.

This is why the world says, is this it? Is this what the church is supposed to look like? Let the world read the book of Acts and ask themselves - do they look like that? Do they look like the Apostles who worked with their own hands so that they were not a burden on the people they ministered to who were already poor yet rich in faith? Did the minister have 1 coat like Paul or was he piling up clothing like clay inside his million dollar mansion? Did the women pray and fast? Did they cover themselves and not have on expensive clothing, jewelry and and hair done up to compete with the latest Hollywood trend? Did they spend their time in shopping malls or on their faces before God? How much time before a "church service" did they spend on their knees seeking Gods face to prepare their hearts? Or was it spent in front of the bathroom mirror putting on makeup as the heathen women do? Hard word? You bet. God isn't grading on a curve here. Neither should we be.

 

[Andylusion]

I don't care what your "teachings" are. It is CRUEL to turn this mom away and refuse to hold a funeral for her son. Why can't you people let GOD decide? Why do you have to be cruel to the grieving mom?

I thought you didn't believe in G-d? Our G-d did decide. He gave us a book. We follow the book.

If you don't believe in G-d, or if you believe in a G-d different from our Bible... that's fine. You and your church can follow that G-d.

As for me and my house, and my Church.... we serve the Lord.

He *DID* decide. He wrote in our book, how we are to deal with people who are hypocrites. We are letting G-d make the decision. We didn't write it ChrisL.

We're not trying to be mean. We're not trying to upset anyone. But..... we are trying to follow our beliefs, as best we can. That ticks people off, I know. But if I have choose to between making you happy, and G-d mad, or making G-d happy, and you mad.... I'll choose the latter.

 

[ChrisL]

I don't care what your "teachings" are. It is CRUEL to turn this mom away and refuse to hold a funeral for her son. Why can't you people let GOD decide? Why do you have to be cruel to the grieving mom?

I thought you didn't believe in G-d? Our G-d did decide. He gave us a book. We follow the book.

If you don't believe in G-d, or if you believe in a G-d different from our Bible... that's fine. You and your church can follow that G-d.

As for me and my house, and my Church.... we serve the Lord.

He *DID* decide. He wrote in our book, how we are to deal with people who are hypocrites. We are letting G-d make the decision. We didn't write it ChrisL.

We're not trying to be mean. We're not trying to upset anyone. But..... we are trying to follow our beliefs, as best we can. That ticks people off, I know. But if I have choose to between making you happy, and G-d mad, or making G-d happy, and you mad.... I'll choose the latter.

No, I don't believe in YOUR idea of what God is. I don't believe in your book either.

 

[Andylusion]

I love how the anti-Christians believe that the sole purpose of Christians is to accede to whatever demand is made of them, in whatever context, from whomever..and who maintain that unless we behave as the willing slaves of the depraved, we aren't *good* Christians. What utter hogwash.

It's ok Girl. I don't expect them to understand. And pagans hating Christians is as old as Christianity itself. Let them be. It's ok.

 

[ChrisL]

It wasn't cruel. It was deceptive of the gay dead dude's family to try to pass one off on their church. If they're members in good standing, they knew they were being dishonest and if they aren't, then they have not right to expect consideration in the first place.

It most certainly IS cruel to turn away a grieving parent. Obviously you have NO idea what it must have taken for her to even PLAN the funeral of her child. To her, her son was a good person and SHE loved him unconditionally.