Christians United For Israel

[Indeependent]

Nope; only 2.
In fact, I challenge you to find ONE EXPLICIT reference to Jerusalem in the Quaran...One.
And if you think the Arabs are going to allow Christians free reign to their Holy Sites, well, they DIDN'T for several centuries.

You're a fucking idiot!

Islamic holy sites in Jerusalem...

Jerusalem is considered a sacred site in Sunni Islamic tradition, along with Mecca and Medina.

The Dome of the Rock is an Islamic sacred shrine in Jerusalem, built on the Temple Mount.

Jerusalem is not directly mentioned by name in the Qur'an nor is it mentioned by its Arabic translation, "Al Quds". However the Qur'anic verse (17:1) is interpreted by Islamic tafsirs (commentaries) as referring to this journey, with the term "the farthest Mosque" (al-masjid al-Aqsa) referring to the Noble Sanctuary in Jerusalem, where the mosque stands. There he meets other prophets, Abraham, Moses and Jesus in particular.

The Al-Aqsa Mosque is specified of being in Jerusalem as per numerous hadith:

Narrated Jabir bin 'Abdullah: "Then he heard Allah's Apostle saying, "When the people of Quraish did not believe me (i.e. the story of my Night Journey), I stood up in Al-Hijr and Allah displayed Jerusalem in front of me, and I began describing Jerusalem to them while I was looking at it." Sahih Bukhari: Volume 5, Book 58, Number 226.​

Part of Jerusalem's significance and holiness to Muslims derives from its strong association with Abraham, David, Solomon, and Jesus. They are all regarded as Prophets of Islam and their stories are mentioned in the Qur'an.

Care to make any other dumbass statements?

Un hem...an EXPLICIT reference in Islamic canon will do just fine.
Oh! You can't find one!

The references you have as Jerusalem are IMPLIED in the writings WAY PAST the closing of the Suras of the Koran.
Next!

 

[Indeependent]

Your historic and religious text comments are of highly limited value in political decisions today.

For example, they simply don't justify the crimes of land theft or ethnic cleansing of a population.

Telling some other religion that they don't have holy sites is about as stupid an idea as I've heard on this board. Besides, Islam very definitely has ancient holy sites in Jerusalem.

Here's value...If they want it, let them come and take it.
I guess you value UN Resolutions...If they are Anti-Israel.
Ethnic Cleansing...Can you tell me EXACTLY where this is happening so I can ask one of my many friends and relatives in Israel to check it out?
And once again, show me any EXPLICIT reference to Jerusalem in the Koran.

If a religion is to be taken seriously, it can't just conjure up sound-bites when it's scripture is available all over the Internet.

There doesn't need to be any reference to ANYTHING in the Qur'an in order to justify Palestinian property owners retaining their property. International law states that changes in national boundary do NOT affect private property ownership. And, there is no justification for the ethnic cleansing that is being performed to allow settlements (including settlements even Israel considers illegal) to grow - to the benefit of civilian Israelis.

Even the Bush "road map" plan pointed this out, and called for Israel to remove these settlements.

Ethnic cleansing is being carried out in a multitude of locations all across West Bank.

Take a look at the routing plans for the Wall. The Wall route is under constant change, with it meandering up river valleys and through various other types of land in a manner that can not possibly have ANYTHING to do with security of Israel within the Green Line.

Have you EVER looked at a map of West Bank? Even the Israeli maps show the incredible progress of their program of land theft and ethnic cleansing. Why do you think Palestinians are upset to the point of suicide attacks???

When they have their farms and homes stolen and when their families are chased off their land, what is their recourse? Whose law protects them? How do they get new land to farm when these families are in a relocation camps having had the Israelis steal their possessions?

Here's a concrete plan of action.
It's a fact that new settlements are being built on unused land closer and closer to the West Bank Jordanian.
Create or find a map that DISTINCTLY indicates inhabited West Bank Jordanian settlements dating back 3 years, or maybe even longer, and indicate EXPLICITLY where West Bank Jordanians have been dislocated from their homes.

Caveat...A West Bank Jordanian settlement in which bomb factories have been exposed CANNOT be used for this map.

 

[WillReadmore]

Here's a concrete plan of action.
It's a fact that new settlements are being built on unused land closer and closer to the West Bank Jordanian.
Create or find a map that DISTINCTLY indicates inhabited West Bank Jordanian settlements dating back 3 years, or maybe even longer, and indicate EXPLICITLY where West Bank Jordanians have been dislocated from their homes.

Caveat...A West Bank Jordanian settlement in which bomb factories have been exposed CANNOT be used for this map.

What the heck is a "West Bank Jordanian"?

Let's remember that this was a key issue even back in the Bush administration when Bush43 made his "road map" for peace. The primary task assigned to Palestine (to be executed before negotiations started) was for them to get their security situation under control. Since then, Israel has turned over significant portions of security to West Bank even though West Bank has been allowed limited policing equipment to carry out the task - in other words, a notable accomplishment recognized even by Israel.

Israel's "road map" task (to be executed as their requirement for entering negotiations) was to eliminate illegal Israeli settlements in West Bank. Israel started to do this, but the internal politics ended that task and Israel has been on a constant program of illegally EXPANDING settlements since then. These expansions very definitely involve stealing land from Palestinians and chasing them away as per ethnic cleansing.

Here's one report from 2006:

JERUSALEM, Nov. 21 -- An Israeli advocacy group has found that 39 percent of the land used by Jewish settlements in the West Bank is private Palestinian property, which the organization contends is a violation of international and Israeli law guaranteeing property rights in the occupied territories.

The report's authors, Dror Etkes and Hagit Ofran, note that "it is difficult to assess all of the political and legal implications" of their findings. But "it is clear," they write, "that the settlement enterprise has, since its inception, ignored Israeli law and undermined not only the collective property rights of the Palestinians as a people, but also the private property rights of individual Palestinian landowners." The report states that the settlements occupy a total of 15,271 acres of private Palestinian land.

West Bank Settlements Often Use Private Palestinian Land, Study Says

This was from 2006. The "progress" Israeli ethnic cleansing programs have made over the last 6 years is dramatic and can be seen in Israeli maps of West Bank.

 

[Billo_Really]

Un hem...an EXPLICIT reference in Islamic canon will do just fine.
Oh! You can't find one!

The references you have as Jerusalem are IMPLIED in the writings WAY PAST the closing of the Suras of the Koran.
Next!

Asking you about Islamic holy sites in Jerusalem, is like asking the KKK what they think about African-American contributions to the New World.

Your racist bullshit doesn't negate any muslim holy sites in Jerusalem.

 

[Billo_Really]

Here's a concrete plan of action.
It's a fact that new settlements are being built on unused land closer and closer to the West Bank Jordanian.
Create or find a map that DISTINCTLY indicates inhabited West Bank Jordanian settlements dating back 3 years, or maybe even longer, and indicate EXPLICITLY where West Bank Jordanians have been dislocated from their homes.

Caveat...A West Bank Jordanian settlement in which bomb factories have been exposed CANNOT be used for this map.

Here's a better plan.

The Israeli's need to get their shit, IOF and settler insurgents out of the West Bank. They have only two options:

1. do it voluntarily
2. or be forced to

That's all they got!

 

[P F Tinmore]

So called, self proclaimed Christians who support stealing, killing, and lying. Weren't those things mentioned in the ten commandments?

No thank you. I would rather be a real Christian not one of those fake ass Christians who support Israel.

 

[MJB12741]

Get serious. What "Palestinian property" are you talking about? Who owns the deed to these properties? Truly it's long overdue for Israel to find a way to send the Palestinian squatters back to their indigenous homelands. LET THERE BE PEACE ALREADY!



QUOTE=WillReadmore;8346173]

Your historic and religious text comments are of highly limited value in political decisions today.

For example, they simply don't justify the crimes of land theft or ethnic cleansing of a population.

Telling some other religion that they don't have holy sites is about as stupid an idea as I've heard on this board. Besides, Islam very definitely has ancient holy sites in Jerusalem.

Here's value...If they want it, let them come and take it.
I guess you value UN Resolutions...If they are Anti-Israel.
Ethnic Cleansing...Can you tell me EXACTLY where this is happening so I can ask one of my many friends and relatives in Israel to check it out?
And once again, show me any EXPLICIT reference to Jerusalem in the Koran.

If a religion is to be taken seriously, it can't just conjure up sound-bites when it's scripture is available all over the Internet.

There doesn't need to be any reference to ANYTHING in the Qur'an in order to justify Palestinian property owners retaining their property. International law states that changes in national boundary do NOT affect private property ownership. And, there is no justification for the ethnic cleansing that is being performed to allow settlements (including settlements even Israel considers illegal) to grow - to the benefit of civilian Israelis.

Even the Bush "road map" plan pointed this out, and called for Israel to remove these settlements.

Ethnic cleansing is being carried out in a multitude of locations all across West Bank.

Take a look at the routing plans for the Wall. The Wall route is under constant change, with it meandering up river valleys and through various other types of land in a manner that can not possibly have ANYTHING to do with security of Israel within the Green Line.

Have you EVER looked at a map of West Bank? Even the Israeli maps show the incredible progress of their program of land theft and ethnic cleansing. Why do you think Palestinians are upset to the point of suicide attacks???

When they have their farms and homes stolen and when their families are chased off their land, what is their recourse? Whose law protects them? How do they get new land to farm when these families are in a relocation camps having had the Israelis steal their possessions?[/QUOTE]

 

[Shaarona]

The Palestinians are cut off by walls, settlements and Jewish-only roads.. They are cut off from their farms and olive groves, mosques, schools and relatives.

There is no room for a two state solution .. That window closed many years ago..

 

[irosie91]

MJB ----SILLY BOY-------read the koran ------in fact,, read ancient writings and LEARN!!!!!

How is land ownership attained? -------well.........more than 4000 years ago-----
in the land mass called "CANAAN" ------Abraham PURCHASED hebron----for
something called "money" -------at that time "money" consisted of gold &/or
silver----------usually shapped into rings------and evaluated by WEIGHT-------
the "SHEKEL" is a weight. Ownership of land by PURCHASE------has been
known in the middle east for MILLENIA !!!!!!! but-----ownership of land----
according to the "isa-respecters" -------is based on invasion and rape and killing
and enslavement. FACE REALITY MJB--------the isa-respecters from mecca
and rome------OWN IT ALL Now do you understand?
Even today-----KHARTROUM claims southern sudan based on "LAW"-----the
law of rape and killing and enslavement

(PS-----all of the indian subcontinent is OWNED ---by the meccaists----by the
same principle-------invaision, rape and killing and enslavement......)

 

[Indeependent]

Get serious. What "Palestinian property" are you talking about? Who owns the deed to these properties? Truly it's long overdue for Israel to find a way to send the Palestinian squatters back to their indigenous homelands. LET THERE BE PEACE ALREADY!



QUOTE=WillReadmore;8346173]

Your historic and religious text comments are of highly limited value in political decisions today.

For example, they simply don't justify the crimes of land theft or ethnic cleansing of a population.

Telling some other religion that they don't have holy sites is about as stupid an idea as I've heard on this board. Besides, Islam very definitely has ancient holy sites in Jerusalem.

Here's value...If they want it, let them come and take it.
I guess you value UN Resolutions...If they are Anti-Israel.
Ethnic Cleansing...Can you tell me EXACTLY where this is happening so I can ask one of my many friends and relatives in Israel to check it out?
And once again, show me any EXPLICIT reference to Jerusalem in the Koran.

If a religion is to be taken seriously, it can't just conjure up sound-bites when it's scripture is available all over the Internet.

There doesn't need to be any reference to ANYTHING in the Qur'an in order to justify Palestinian property owners retaining their property. International law states that changes in national boundary do NOT affect private property ownership. And, there is no justification for the ethnic cleansing that is being performed to allow settlements (including settlements even Israel considers illegal) to grow - to the benefit of civilian Israelis.

Even the Bush "road map" plan pointed this out, and called for Israel to remove these settlements.

Ethnic cleansing is being carried out in a multitude of locations all across West Bank.

Take a look at the routing plans for the Wall. The Wall route is under constant change, with it meandering up river valleys and through various other types of land in a manner that can not possibly have ANYTHING to do with security of Israel within the Green Line.

Have you EVER looked at a map of West Bank? Even the Israeli maps show the incredible progress of their program of land theft and ethnic cleansing. Why do you think Palestinians are upset to the point of suicide attacks???

When they have their farms and homes stolen and when their families are chased off their land, what is their recourse? Whose law protects them? How do they get new land to farm when these families are in a relocation camps having had the Israelis steal their possessions?

[/QUOTE]

Pre-1948 mass murdering of Jews in the land currently known as Israel...Rationale?
1948-Tanks roll in from Jordan, Egypt and Jordan...Rationale?
1967-Tanks roll in from etc
1974-ditto

The bottom line is that Arabs are a bunch of murderous scum and even the British, French, Germans, US, etc....armed the Jews to the teeth in 1948 because nobody wanted a unified Arab world power to emerge.

So everybody, including all the Arab nations, stand by whilst their "helpless" murderous scum "Palestinians" and Gazans brethren continue to build their bombs to strap around the waists of their children.
So I guess every nation on earth is aiding and abetting this ethnic cleansing of murderous scum.

Good.

 

[Indeependent]

Here's a concrete plan of action.
It's a fact that new settlements are being built on unused land closer and closer to the West Bank Jordanian.
Create or find a map that DISTINCTLY indicates inhabited West Bank Jordanian settlements dating back 3 years, or maybe even longer, and indicate EXPLICITLY where West Bank Jordanians have been dislocated from their homes.

Caveat...A West Bank Jordanian settlement in which bomb factories have been exposed CANNOT be used for this map.

Here's a better plan.

The Israeli's need to get their shit, IOF and settler insurgents out of the West Bank. They have only two options:

1. do it voluntarily
2. or be forced to

That's all they got!

I think you're right.
The mighty Irish military is working on a plan at this very moment.

 

[MJB12741]

LOL! Here is a fair & just solution to the land issue the Palestinians supporters will surely like, For all Palestinians who hold deeds to the land & properties they occupy can stay. And for all Palestinians who don't hold deeds to the land & property they occupy, its adios!

MJB ----SILLY BOY-------read the koran ------in fact,, read ancient writings and LEARN!!!!!

How is land ownership attained? -------well.........more than 4000 years ago-----
in the land mass called "CANAAN" ------Abraham PURCHASED hebron----for
something called "money" -------at that time "money" consisted of gold &/or
silver----------usually shapped into rings------and evaluated by WEIGHT-------
the "SHEKEL" is a weight. Ownership of land by PURCHASE------has been
known in the middle east for MILLENIA !!!!!!! but-----ownership of land----
according to the "isa-respecters" -------is based on invasion and rape and killing
and enslavement. FACE REALITY MJB--------the isa-respecters from mecca
and rome------OWN IT ALL Now do you understand?
Even today-----KHARTROUM claims southern sudan based on "LAW"-----the
law of rape and killing and enslavement

(PS-----all of the indian subcontinent is OWNED ---by the meccaists----by the
same principle-------invaision, rape and killing and enslavement......)

 

[WillReadmore]

The Palestinians are cut off by walls, settlements and Jewish-only roads.. They are cut off from their farms and olive groves, mosques, schools and relatives.

There is no room for a two state solution .. That window closed many years ago..

Two very strong points.

With the first, I'd add that Israel considers farmland as vacant if the owner can't get their to do a productive job of farming. Thus, these access limitations lead farmers having their farms stolen.


On the second, it seems much more logical at this point to include all West Bank as part of Israel. By international law, that would make ALL residents of West Bank full citizens of Israel. From there, it would become a fight for equality, much as it is in any apartheid nation.

That would be a touch sell for Palestinians who have UN recognition, a viable state (according to the UN Security Council) and national aspirations.

For Israel, they would have to come to the understanding that their nation is a secular democratic state (such as the USA) - not a religious state. After all, the majority would probably be Islamic within the foreseeable future.

 

[WillReadmore]

LOL! Here is a fair & just solution to the land issue the Palestinians supporters will surely like, For all Palestinians who hold deeds to the land & properties they occupy can stay. And for all Palestinians who don't hold deeds to the land & property they occupy, its adios!

MJB ----SILLY BOY-------read the koran ------in fact,, read ancient writings and LEARN!!!!!

How is land ownership attained? -------well.........more than 4000 years ago-----
in the land mass called "CANAAN" ------Abraham PURCHASED hebron----for
something called "money" -------at that time "money" consisted of gold &/or
silver----------usually shapped into rings------and evaluated by WEIGHT-------
the "SHEKEL" is a weight. Ownership of land by PURCHASE------has been
known in the middle east for MILLENIA !!!!!!! but-----ownership of land----
according to the "isa-respecters" -------is based on invasion and rape and killing
and enslavement. FACE REALITY MJB--------the isa-respecters from mecca
and rome------OWN IT ALL Now do you understand?
Even today-----KHARTROUM claims southern sudan based on "LAW"-----the
law of rape and killing and enslavement

(PS-----all of the indian subcontinent is OWNED ---by the meccaists----by the
same principle-------invaision, rape and killing and enslavement......)

Your new excuse for ethnic cleansing is even more pathetic than the current excuses.

 

[Shaarona]

The three different categories of land in Israel are: those which may not be purchased by foreign citizens; those which may be purchased by foreign citizens, yet are subject to various conditions; and those which may be purchased by foreign citizens not subject to any conditions.

The overwhelming majority of land is Israel is owned by the State and only a small minority is under private ownership. A negligible portion of land in Israel has not yet been categorized into either of these two areas.

Approximately 7% of the allocated land in Israel is privately owned. The rest, i.e. 93%, is owned by the State and is known as “Israeli Land”. Israel’s Basic Law on real estate states that Israel’s Land is jointly owned by the State (69%), the Development Authority (12%), and the Jewish National Fund (12%). While the law expressly forbids transferring of such land either by sale or other means, it does imply that a long term lease would be permitted.


I can't post links yet.

 

[Indeependent]

The Palestinians are cut off by walls, settlements and Jewish-only roads.. They are cut off from their farms and olive groves, mosques, schools and relatives.

There is no room for a two state solution .. That window closed many years ago..

Two very strong points.

With the first, I'd add that Israel considers farmland as vacant if the owner can't get their to do a productive job of farming. Thus, these access limitations lead farmers having their farms stolen.


On the second, it seems much more logical at this point to include all West Bank as part of Israel. By international law, that would make ALL residents of West Bank full citizens of Israel. From there, it would become a fight for equality, much as it is in any apartheid nation.

That would be a touch sell for Palestinians who have UN recognition, a viable state (according to the UN Security Council) and national aspirations.

For Israel, they would have to come to the understanding that their nation is a secular democratic state (such as the USA) - not a religious state. After all, the majority would probably be Islamic within the foreseeable future.

While, of course, the rest of the Arab nations remain non-secular...cute.
Not gonna happen in a million years, but cute.
You realize the overwhelming number of Jews moving to Israel now are Modern Orthodox?
And they LOVE guns.

 

[MJB12741]

Bless you for brining up this issue of "ethnic cleansing" so even those Zionists can see the truth. In 1948 there were approximarely 1.2 million Palestinians living in Israel. And now there are only just under 6 million of them left. Let the truth be known to all & LET THERE BE PEACE ALREADY!

Population Statistics - Israeli-Palestinian Conflict - ProCon.org

LOL! Here is a fair & just solution to the land issue the Palestinians supporters will surely like, For all Palestinians who hold deeds to the land & properties they occupy can stay. And for all Palestinians who don't hold deeds to the land & property they occupy, its adios!

MJB ----SILLY BOY-------read the koran ------in fact,, read ancient writings and LEARN!!!!!

How is land ownership attained? -------well.........more than 4000 years ago-----
in the land mass called "CANAAN" ------Abraham PURCHASED hebron----for
something called "money" -------at that time "money" consisted of gold &/or
silver----------usually shapped into rings------and evaluated by WEIGHT-------
the "SHEKEL" is a weight. Ownership of land by PURCHASE------has been
known in the middle east for MILLENIA !!!!!!! but-----ownership of land----
according to the "isa-respecters" -------is based on invasion and rape and killing
and enslavement. FACE REALITY MJB--------the isa-respecters from mecca
and rome------OWN IT ALL Now do you understand?
Even today-----KHARTROUM claims southern sudan based on "LAW"-----the
law of rape and killing and enslavement

(PS-----all of the indian subcontinent is OWNED ---by the meccaists----by the
same principle-------invaision, rape and killing and enslavement......)

Your new excuse for ethnic cleansing is even more pathetic than the current excuses.

 

[Indeependent]

MJB ----SILLY BOY-------read the koran ------in fact,, read ancient writings and LEARN!!!!!

How is land ownership attained? -------well.........more than 4000 years ago-----
in the land mass called "CANAAN" ------Abraham PURCHASED hebron----for
something called "money" -------at that time "money" consisted of gold &/or
silver----------usually shapped into rings------and evaluated by WEIGHT-------
the "SHEKEL" is a weight. Ownership of land by PURCHASE------has been
known in the middle east for MILLENIA !!!!!!! but-----ownership of land----
according to the "isa-respecters" -------is based on invasion and rape and killing
and enslavement. FACE REALITY MJB--------the isa-respecters from mecca
and rome------OWN IT ALL Now do you understand?
Even today-----KHARTROUM claims southern sudan based on "LAW"-----the
law of rape and killing and enslavement

(PS-----all of the indian subcontinent is OWNED ---by the meccaists----by the
same principle-------invaision, rape and killing and enslavement......)

Now please count for us the number of times scripture records a land purchase and WHY these particular purchases are recorded.
And in whose favor those purchases were recorded.
You're NOT gonna like the answer.

 

[Shaarona]

LOL! Here is a fair & just solution to the land issue the Palestinians supporters will surely like, For all Palestinians who hold deeds to the land & properties they occupy can stay. And for all Palestinians who don't hold deeds to the land & property they occupy, its adios!

MJB ----SILLY BOY-------read the koran ------in fact,, read ancient writings and LEARN!!!!!

How is land ownership attained? -------well.........more than 4000 years ago-----
in the land mass called "CANAAN" ------Abraham PURCHASED hebron----for
something called "money" -------at that time "money" consisted of gold &/or
silver----------usually shapped into rings------and evaluated by WEIGHT-------
the "SHEKEL" is a weight. Ownership of land by PURCHASE------has been
known in the middle east for MILLENIA !!!!!!! but-----ownership of land----
according to the "isa-respecters" -------is based on invasion and rape and killing
and enslavement. FACE REALITY MJB--------the isa-respecters from mecca
and rome------OWN IT ALL Now do you understand?
Even today-----KHARTROUM claims southern sudan based on "LAW"-----the
law of rape and killing and enslavement

(PS-----all of the indian subcontinent is OWNED ---by the meccaists----by the
same principle-------invaision, rape and killing and enslavement......)

Your new excuse for ethnic cleansing is even more pathetic than the current excuses.

Abraham purchased a field in Hebron, not the whole town.

Genesis 23: 7-9

 

[Indeependent]

And while everyone's at it...
Please recount for us, from scripture, whether or not Abraham, Isaac and Jacob were told to PURCHASE the Land of Israel or if their children were going to INHERIT the Land of Israel.
And just exactly HOW the Children of Israel, led by Joshua, INHERITED the Land of Israel.

And if you reject all of this you also have to reject your Christianity since TNT is based on TNT.