Christians to Gays: We'll accept your business (and donate to pro-family lobby)

[HereWeGoAgain]

Now here's an example of how to turn the other cheek, giving over all your clothes when they sue you for your cloak -- Using reverse psychology to give people what they ask for, and more:

=============
While gay activists are attacking Christian bakeries and wedding planners and filing lawsuits to put them out of business because of their religious beliefs, a Catholic priest has come up with a simple solution that, if adopted nationally, likely could end much of the gay and left-wing offensive in this realm.

Simply, accept all business from gays and tell them that the money will be donated to a traditional pro-family lobby or organization. And if your business is catering, for instance, show up at the gay wedding wearing a Cross necklace, a Bible-pin on your lapel, and a Bible verse embroidered on your uniform that expresses your morality, such as Mark 10:6-7, "But at the beginning of creation God made them male and female. For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife."

Christians to Gays We ll Accept Your Business and Donate Your Money to Traditional Pro-Family Lobby CNS News


As Fr. John Zuhlsdorf explains in his Apr. 2 blog post, "It’s time for everyone to calm down. We need a new approach. Think about this. When some homosexual couple comes to your Christian business for services at their immoral event, don’t panic. Go ahead and take their business!"

"Then explain what is going to happen next," says Fr. Z on his popular blog page.

"Tell them that the food and services will be just fine. And then inform them that all of the money that they pay for the services will be donated to a traditional pro-family lobby."

"If it is something like catering, where your employees have to be there to provide services, tell them that all your people will smile, be professional, and everyone of them will be wearing crucifixes and have the Holy Family embroidered on their uniforms," says Fr. Z.

"Then show them pictures of your uniforms," he writes. "When the truck pulls up, speakers will be playing Immaculate Mary. Show them the truck and play the music."

“Oh, you would be offended by that? I’m so sorry," notes Fr. Z. "You approached us because we are Christians. Right? We are happy to provide services for you and we are grateful that you chose to come to our Christian catering business. We just want to be of help.”

Most gay people are Christians so I'm not seeing how this would offend them.

That is probably one of the dumbest things I've ever read. You are beyond stupid.

Well we are talking about Ravi.....

 

[emilynghiem]

Christians hating their children is showing proper family values.

And LGBT rallying around those who come out gay,
but totally denying those who change from gay to straight as "liars" or "never really gay to begin with,"
is also demonstrating how INCLUSION works. Or not.

If someone wants to be straight...more power to them...however, stats show that doesn't turn out well in the end....ESPECIALLY for the straight family members. I've seen it many more times than not.

Dear bodecea, if you went by "stats" or "percentages"
gays who stay gay would be less than 5% of the population to begin with. Do you really want to go there?
And say it is based on "percent of cases" whether or not to support people who FIT that tiny percentage regardless of numbers? Wouldn't you lose any arguments for gay rights if it were based on % of the population???? C'mon!

 

[emilynghiem]

Finally, one of them used their thinking cap.

Right......for a chamber pot. Dumb idea, but please try.

They found a way to obey the law while still retaining their identity as bigots. Credit where credit is due.

Agit8r BULLDOG

At least it is a step in a positive direction toward inclusion despite known differences.
Better than the people pushing their unproven beliefs about homosexuality while rejecting unproven beliefs against it.

If Christians figure it out first, maybe they can teach their opponents how to turn the other cheek and rebuke each other as equal peers with equal standing. Not competing to put the other person down as lower or less worthy of respect.

You can win arguments by standing on equal ground and convincing people by free choice -- no bullying required. This idea of having to go through govt to force opinions on people about unproven faith based issues is just as oppressive and abusive as religious groups pushing their unproven beliefs on others by law instead of respecting free choice.

Looks like the liberal left has to go through the same learning curve as the radical right, to learn the true meaning of separating church and state, or unproven faith-based beliefs from public policies everyone agrees to follow as law.

 

[emilynghiem]

Now here's an example of how to turn the other cheek, giving over all your clothes when they sue you for your cloak -- Using reverse psychology to give people what they ask for, and more:

=============
While gay activists are attacking Christian bakeries and wedding planners and filing lawsuits to put them out of business because of their religious beliefs, a Catholic priest has come up with a simple solution that, if adopted nationally, likely could end much of the gay and left-wing offensive in this realm.

Simply, accept all business from gays and tell them that the money will be donated to a traditional pro-family lobby or organization. And if your business is catering, for instance, show up at the gay wedding wearing a Cross necklace, a Bible-pin on your lapel, and a Bible verse embroidered on your uniform that expresses your morality, such as Mark 10:6-7, "But at the beginning of creation God made them male and female. For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife."

Christians to Gays We ll Accept Your Business and Donate Your Money to Traditional Pro-Family Lobby CNS News


As Fr. John Zuhlsdorf explains in his Apr. 2 blog post, "It’s time for everyone to calm down. We need a new approach. Think about this. When some homosexual couple comes to your Christian business for services at their immoral event, don’t panic. Go ahead and take their business!"

"Then explain what is going to happen next," says Fr. Z on his popular blog page.

"Tell them that the food and services will be just fine. And then inform them that all of the money that they pay for the services will be donated to a traditional pro-family lobby."

"If it is something like catering, where your employees have to be there to provide services, tell them that all your people will smile, be professional, and everyone of them will be wearing crucifixes and have the Holy Family embroidered on their uniforms," says Fr. Z.

"Then show them pictures of your uniforms," he writes. "When the truck pulls up, speakers will be playing Immaculate Mary. Show them the truck and play the music."

“Oh, you would be offended by that? I’m so sorry," notes Fr. Z. "You approached us because we are Christians. Right? We are happy to provide services for you and we are grateful that you chose to come to our Christian catering business. We just want to be of help.”

When it comes to unethics, an homosexual is little compared to liars, deceivers, atheists and most people of religion (since only one religion can be true), etc... Christianity is a great mess.

Hi Muslim75 Thank you for sharing your thoughts on this. It is good to hear from different viewpoints and angles where it isn't so polarized.

Christianity is a mess like Government is a mess from not following its own Constitutional principles.
The true meaning and message in Christianity, as with Constitutional teachings, would clean up both messes!
the
As my friend Mustafaa Carroll of CAIR said about Islam, it's not Islam that needs reform but the Muslim followers.

As for Christianity, the gift and power of spiritual healing through divine forgiveness to break past patterns,
not only cures the root conditions behind lying, rejection between religious or political groups as with extreme atheism as well as extreme theist religions that divide and attack each other instead of establishing truth civilly, or other social ills and destruction; but the forgiveness, healing and reconciliation in truth is the same process that has cured people of physical mental and spiritual disorders. Cancer, diabetes, drug or sex abuse and addictions, and even some homosexual and cureable cases of pedophilia have been resolved through spiritual therapy and deliverance.

This is not about converting people to any religion. I know atheists who have gone through healing and stay secular. I know at least one transgender person who came out after receiving healing and accepting that Christianity was not evil but about unconditional love. The forgiveness in spiritual healing, which Christians attribute to God's grace through Christ, is even taught by atheists as a natural gift in life, with or without representation as a personified God.
this process of healing and reconciliation in the spirit of truth, by forgiveness and correction, inclusion and agreement freely reached between people, is universal. people of all religious or political affiliations, or none at all, go through this same process to establish truth justice and peace, which Christians have taught as the trinity. This isn't limited to just Christian symbolism, but the concept is right -- that all people are governed by equal justice under law. We just don't all personify universal justice as a Jesus figure, but that is what it means. The concept of justice and peace for all humanity is still a universal message and process.

Christians are right about that, yet as the Bible itself warns, the narrow path of agreement that includes all ways equally, the understanding how all people of all tribes and nations can come together in unity, and yet still remain diverse in religions and cultures without forcing each other to change, is a very narrow passage, and very few will find it. Those few will serve the rest, and lead followers of all tribes and all nations to one understanding that preserves diversity, so there can still be unity and agreement in truth, freely chosen not forced by coercion, where all people of all views are equally included and respected.

 

[Mr.Right]

Now here's an example of how to turn the other cheek, giving over all your clothes when they sue you for your cloak -- Using reverse psychology to give people what they ask for, and more:

=============
While gay activists are attacking Christian bakeries and wedding planners and filing lawsuits to put them out of business because of their religious beliefs, a Catholic priest has come up with a simple solution that, if adopted nationally, likely could end much of the gay and left-wing offensive in this realm.

Simply, accept all business from gays and tell them that the money will be donated to a traditional pro-family lobby or organization. And if your business is catering, for instance, show up at the gay wedding wearing a Cross necklace, a Bible-pin on your lapel, and a Bible verse embroidered on your uniform that expresses your morality, such as Mark 10:6-7, "But at the beginning of creation God made them male and female. For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife."

Christians to Gays We ll Accept Your Business and Donate Your Money to Traditional Pro-Family Lobby CNS News


As Fr. John Zuhlsdorf explains in his Apr. 2 blog post, "It’s time for everyone to calm down. We need a new approach. Think about this. When some homosexual couple comes to your Christian business for services at their immoral event, don’t panic. Go ahead and take their business!"

"Then explain what is going to happen next," says Fr. Z on his popular blog page.

"Tell them that the food and services will be just fine. And then inform them that all of the money that they pay for the services will be donated to a traditional pro-family lobby."

"If it is something like catering, where your employees have to be there to provide services, tell them that all your people will smile, be professional, and everyone of them will be wearing crucifixes and have the Holy Family embroidered on their uniforms," says Fr. Z.

"Then show them pictures of your uniforms," he writes. "When the truck pulls up, speakers will be playing Immaculate Mary. Show them the truck and play the music."

“Oh, you would be offended by that? I’m so sorry," notes Fr. Z. "You approached us because we are Christians. Right? We are happy to provide services for you and we are grateful that you chose to come to our Christian catering business. We just want to be of help.”

When it comes to unethics, an homosexual is little compared to liars, deceivers, atheists and most people of religion (since only one religion can be true), etc... Christianity is a great mess.

Hi Muslim75 Thank you for sharing your thoughts on this. It is good to hear from different viewpoints and angles where it isn't so polarized.

Christianity is a mess like Government is a mess from not following its own Constitutional principles.
The true meaning and message in Christianity, as with Constitutional teachings, would clean up both messes!
the
As my friend Mustafaa Carroll of CAIR said about Islam, it's not Islam that needs reform but the Muslim followers.

As for Christianity, the gift and power of spiritual healing through divine forgiveness to break past patterns,
not only cures the root conditions behind lying, rejection between religious or political groups as with extreme atheism as well as extreme theist religions that divide and attack each other instead of establishing truth civilly, or other social ills and destruction; but the forgiveness, healing and reconciliation in truth is the same process that has cured people of physical mental and spiritual disorders. Cancer, diabetes, drug or sex abuse and addictions, and even some homosexual and cureable cases of pedophilia have been resolved through spiritual therapy and deliverance.

This is not about converting people to any religion. I know atheists who have gone through healing and stay secular. I know at least one transgender person who came out after receiving healing and accepting that Christianity was not evil but about unconditional love. The forgiveness in spiritual healing, which Christians attribute to God's grace through Christ, is even taught by atheists as a natural gift in life, with or without representation as a personified God.
this process of healing and reconciliation in the spirit of truth, by forgiveness and correction, inclusion and agreement freely reached between people, is universal. people of all religious or political affiliations, or none at all, go through this same process to establish truth justice and peace, which Christians have taught as the trinity. This isn't limited to just Christian symbolism, but the concept is right -- that all people are governed by equal justice under law. We just don't all personify universal justice as a Jesus figure, but that is what it means. The concept of justice and peace for all humanity is still a universal message and process.

Christians are right about that, yet as the Bible itself warns, the narrow path of agreement that includes all ways equally, the understanding how all people of all tribes and nations can come together in unity, and yet still remain diverse in religions and cultures without forcing each other to change, is a very narrow passage, and very few will find it. Those few will serve the rest, and lead followers of all tribes and all nations to one understanding that preserves diversity, so there can still be unity and agreement in truth, freely chosen not forced by coercion, where all people of all views are equally included and respected.

As my friend Mustafaa Carroll of CAIR said about Islam, it's not Islam that needs reform but the Muslim followers.

You could't be more wrong about this. Islam IS the problem. The savages who are killing and raping around the globe are following the teachings of muhammed. That is the true islam.

 

[emilynghiem]

And this illustrates why we will continue to have the need for necessary, proper, and Constitutional laws designed to protect citizens from this sort of unwarranted fear of change, diversity, and dissent.

And this illustrates why we will continue to have a need for high - powered firearms to remove people who believe in the mental illness called diversity from our population.

Sorry Anathema I DO believe in and support gun rights as part of an empowered and educated citizenry in ENFORCING Constitutional laws and protections; But never for committing crimes or abusing power or firearms to violate due process and equal protection of the laws. That would go against the very Constitution which defends citizens' gun rights themselves. You cannot violate the very laws you are invoking, that is self-contradictory and self-defeating.

As for mental illness, this is never solved by killing off the population. That isn't solving where the ills come from.
Even diseases like leprosy were never cured by isolating or killing off lepers. It takes scientific methods to identify the cause, find the cure and apply it.

I hope you will encouraged to know that people have been healed of unwanted homosexual attractions through spiritual therapy. And these same spiritual methods of healing have also cured more serious lifethreatening conditions of cancer, diabetes, schizophrenia and other physical mental and spiritual ills, abuses and addictions.

These therapies all work voluntarily by free will, based on forgiveness and letting go, regardless of the faith of the person going through the healing and recovery.

No need to shoot anyone, or threaten to, which is only shooting yourself in the foot. The best solutions are free: freely chosen and freely given by Nature or God as a natural process, consistent with science, universal to all people.

 

[emilynghiem]

Now here's an example of how to turn the other cheek, giving over all your clothes when they sue you for your cloak -- Using reverse psychology to give people what they ask for, and more:

=============
While gay activists are attacking Christian bakeries and wedding planners and filing lawsuits to put them out of business because of their religious beliefs, a Catholic priest has come up with a simple solution that, if adopted nationally, likely could end much of the gay and left-wing offensive in this realm.

Simply, accept all business from gays and tell them that the money will be donated to a traditional pro-family lobby or organization. And if your business is catering, for instance, show up at the gay wedding wearing a Cross necklace, a Bible-pin on your lapel, and a Bible verse embroidered on your uniform that expresses your morality, such as Mark 10:6-7, "But at the beginning of creation God made them male and female. For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife."

Christians to Gays We ll Accept Your Business and Donate Your Money to Traditional Pro-Family Lobby CNS News


As Fr. John Zuhlsdorf explains in his Apr. 2 blog post, "It’s time for everyone to calm down. We need a new approach. Think about this. When some homosexual couple comes to your Christian business for services at their immoral event, don’t panic. Go ahead and take their business!"

"Then explain what is going to happen next," says Fr. Z on his popular blog page.

"Tell them that the food and services will be just fine. And then inform them that all of the money that they pay for the services will be donated to a traditional pro-family lobby."

"If it is something like catering, where your employees have to be there to provide services, tell them that all your people will smile, be professional, and everyone of them will be wearing crucifixes and have the Holy Family embroidered on their uniforms," says Fr. Z.

"Then show them pictures of your uniforms," he writes. "When the truck pulls up, speakers will be playing Immaculate Mary. Show them the truck and play the music."

“Oh, you would be offended by that? I’m so sorry," notes Fr. Z. "You approached us because we are Christians. Right? We are happy to provide services for you and we are grateful that you chose to come to our Christian catering business. We just want to be of help.”

When it comes to unethics, an homosexual is little compared to liars, deceivers, atheists and most people of religion (since only one religion can be true), etc... Christianity is a great mess.

Hi Muslim75 Thank you for sharing your thoughts on this. It is good to hear from different viewpoints and angles where it isn't so polarized.

Christianity is a mess like Government is a mess from not following its own Constitutional principles.
The true meaning and message in Christianity, as with Constitutional teachings, would clean up both messes!
the
As my friend Mustafaa Carroll of CAIR said about Islam, it's not Islam that needs reform but the Muslim followers.

As for Christianity, the gift and power of spiritual healing through divine forgiveness to break past patterns,
not only cures the root conditions behind lying, rejection between religious or political groups as with extreme atheism as well as extreme theist religions that divide and attack each other instead of establishing truth civilly, or other social ills and destruction; but the forgiveness, healing and reconciliation in truth is the same process that has cured people of physical mental and spiritual disorders. Cancer, diabetes, drug or sex abuse and addictions, and even some homosexual and cureable cases of pedophilia have been resolved through spiritual therapy and deliverance.

This is not about converting people to any religion. I know atheists who have gone through healing and stay secular. I know at least one transgender person who came out after receiving healing and accepting that Christianity was not evil but about unconditional love. The forgiveness in spiritual healing, which Christians attribute to God's grace through Christ, is even taught by atheists as a natural gift in life, with or without representation as a personified God.
this process of healing and reconciliation in the spirit of truth, by forgiveness and correction, inclusion and agreement freely reached between people, is universal. people of all religious or political affiliations, or none at all, go through this same process to establish truth justice and peace, which Christians have taught as the trinity. This isn't limited to just Christian symbolism, but the concept is right -- that all people are governed by equal justice under law. We just don't all personify universal justice as a Jesus figure, but that is what it means. The concept of justice and peace for all humanity is still a universal message and process.

Christians are right about that, yet as the Bible itself warns, the narrow path of agreement that includes all ways equally, the understanding how all people of all tribes and nations can come together in unity, and yet still remain diverse in religions and cultures without forcing each other to change, is a very narrow passage, and very few will find it. Those few will serve the rest, and lead followers of all tribes and all nations to one understanding that preserves diversity, so there can still be unity and agreement in truth, freely chosen not forced by coercion, where all people of all views are equally included and respected.

As my friend Mustafaa Carroll of CAIR said about Islam, it's not Islam that needs reform but the Muslim followers.

You could't be more wrong about this. Islam IS the problem. The savages who are killing and raping around the globe are following the teachings of muhammed. That is the true islam.

The true message in Islam is peaceful coexistence between Jews Christians and Muslims as People of the Book.

Anyone who is not living up to that is following Antichrist just as the extreme Jihadists or Armaggeddonists.
Those are the Antichrist extremists abusing Islam and Christianity beyond recognition by other Muslims or Christians.

The truly peaceful Muslims and Jews receive and accept, include and do not reject Christianity.
That's how you can know the true believers. They are one in Christ Jesus, if under scriptural authority, or Restorative Justice if secular gentile under natural laws. This spirit unifies all people of all tribes, and does not discriminate by creed. You can be of any faith background or none at all, and be one in the spirit of Restorative Justice that includes and respects people of all other backgrounds regardless of creed or affiliation, religious political or secular.

Restorative Justice for all humanity is the true meaning and message embodied in Christ Jesus.

Mr.Right where I agree with you:
where either Jews Muslims or other Christians reject the meaning of Christ Jesus,
then that is false religion because it excludes the central key to unifying all people under universal laws of truth and love, wisdom and compassion, peace and justice.

It's not just Muslims being taught to reject the meaning of Jesus as Equal Justice for all.
Many people are mistaught and mislead. The spirit of antichrist is not only in the Jihadist terrorists bombing innocent civilians, but in political groups attacking each other. Many people live by war and rejection, and not in the spirit of restoring justice for lasting peace.

I agree that so many Muslims are mistaught to reject Christianity, that it is causing the same division as with Jews. You call it a problem with Islam, but from talking with Islamic Constitutional scholars who respect God's laws, the problem is with Muslims learning and teaching it wrong. Islam can be taught as consistent with Christian and Constitutional laws. The conflict is coming from people teaching division and conflict instead of resolving these by following Christian and Constitutional processes for reconciliation by agreement in truth.

 

[Mr.Right]

Now here's an example of how to turn the other cheek, giving over all your clothes when they sue you for your cloak -- Using reverse psychology to give people what they ask for, and more:

=============
While gay activists are attacking Christian bakeries and wedding planners and filing lawsuits to put them out of business because of their religious beliefs, a Catholic priest has come up with a simple solution that, if adopted nationally, likely could end much of the gay and left-wing offensive in this realm.

Simply, accept all business from gays and tell them that the money will be donated to a traditional pro-family lobby or organization. And if your business is catering, for instance, show up at the gay wedding wearing a Cross necklace, a Bible-pin on your lapel, and a Bible verse embroidered on your uniform that expresses your morality, such as Mark 10:6-7, "But at the beginning of creation God made them male and female. For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife."

Christians to Gays We ll Accept Your Business and Donate Your Money to Traditional Pro-Family Lobby CNS News


As Fr. John Zuhlsdorf explains in his Apr. 2 blog post, "It’s time for everyone to calm down. We need a new approach. Think about this. When some homosexual couple comes to your Christian business for services at their immoral event, don’t panic. Go ahead and take their business!"

"Then explain what is going to happen next," says Fr. Z on his popular blog page.

"Tell them that the food and services will be just fine. And then inform them that all of the money that they pay for the services will be donated to a traditional pro-family lobby."

"If it is something like catering, where your employees have to be there to provide services, tell them that all your people will smile, be professional, and everyone of them will be wearing crucifixes and have the Holy Family embroidered on their uniforms," says Fr. Z.

"Then show them pictures of your uniforms," he writes. "When the truck pulls up, speakers will be playing Immaculate Mary. Show them the truck and play the music."

“Oh, you would be offended by that? I’m so sorry," notes Fr. Z. "You approached us because we are Christians. Right? We are happy to provide services for you and we are grateful that you chose to come to our Christian catering business. We just want to be of help.”

When it comes to unethics, an homosexual is little compared to liars, deceivers, atheists and most people of religion (since only one religion can be true), etc... Christianity is a great mess.

Hi Muslim75 Thank you for sharing your thoughts on this. It is good to hear from different viewpoints and angles where it isn't so polarized.

Christianity is a mess like Government is a mess from not following its own Constitutional principles.
The true meaning and message in Christianity, as with Constitutional teachings, would clean up both messes!
the
As my friend Mustafaa Carroll of CAIR said about Islam, it's not Islam that needs reform but the Muslim followers.

As for Christianity, the gift and power of spiritual healing through divine forgiveness to break past patterns,
not only cures the root conditions behind lying, rejection between religious or political groups as with extreme atheism as well as extreme theist religions that divide and attack each other instead of establishing truth civilly, or other social ills and destruction; but the forgiveness, healing and reconciliation in truth is the same process that has cured people of physical mental and spiritual disorders. Cancer, diabetes, drug or sex abuse and addictions, and even some homosexual and cureable cases of pedophilia have been resolved through spiritual therapy and deliverance.

This is not about converting people to any religion. I know atheists who have gone through healing and stay secular. I know at least one transgender person who came out after receiving healing and accepting that Christianity was not evil but about unconditional love. The forgiveness in spiritual healing, which Christians attribute to God's grace through Christ, is even taught by atheists as a natural gift in life, with or without representation as a personified God.
this process of healing and reconciliation in the spirit of truth, by forgiveness and correction, inclusion and agreement freely reached between people, is universal. people of all religious or political affiliations, or none at all, go through this same process to establish truth justice and peace, which Christians have taught as the trinity. This isn't limited to just Christian symbolism, but the concept is right -- that all people are governed by equal justice under law. We just don't all personify universal justice as a Jesus figure, but that is what it means. The concept of justice and peace for all humanity is still a universal message and process.

Christians are right about that, yet as the Bible itself warns, the narrow path of agreement that includes all ways equally, the understanding how all people of all tribes and nations can come together in unity, and yet still remain diverse in religions and cultures without forcing each other to change, is a very narrow passage, and very few will find it. Those few will serve the rest, and lead followers of all tribes and all nations to one understanding that preserves diversity, so there can still be unity and agreement in truth, freely chosen not forced by coercion, where all people of all views are equally included and respected.

As my friend Mustafaa Carroll of CAIR said about Islam, it's not Islam that needs reform but the Muslim followers.

You could't be more wrong about this. Islam IS the problem. The savages who are killing and raping around the globe are following the teachings of muhammed. That is the true islam.

The true message in Islam is peaceful coexistence between Jews Christians and Muslims as People of the Book.

Anyone who is not living up to that is following Antichrist just as the extreme Jihadists or Armaggeddonists.
Those are the Antichrist extremists abusing Islam and Christianity beyond recognition by other Muslims or Christians.

The truly peaceful Muslims and Jews receive and accept, include and do not reject Christianity.
That's how you can know the true believers. They are one in Christ Jesus, if under scriptural authority, or Restorative Justice if secular gentile under natural laws. This spirit unifies all people of all tribes, and does not discriminate by creed. You can be of any faith background or none at all, and be one in the spirit of Restorative Justice that includes and respects people of all other backgrounds regardless of creed or affiliation, religious political or secular.

You have no idea what islam teaches. I've posted a link to a book that explains the life of muhammed and his teachings. You cannot understand islam without first understanding it's founder.
Here it is again. Read it, and educate yourself.
The Story of Mohammed About This Book

 

[Anathema]

Sorry Anathema I DO believe in and support gun rights as part of an empowered and educated citizenry in ENFORCING Constitutional laws and protections; But never for committing crimes or abusing power or firearms to violate due process and equal protection of the laws. That would go against the very Constitution which defends citizens' gun rights themselves. You cannot violate the very laws you are invoking, that is self-contradictory and self-defeating.

As for mental illness, this is never solved by killing off the population. That isn't solving where the ills come from.
Even diseases like leprosy were never cured by isolating or killing off lepers. It takes scientific methods to identify the cause, find the cure and apply it.

I hope you will encouraged to know that people have been healed of unwanted homosexual attractions through spiritual therapy. And these same spiritual methods of healing have also cured more serious lifethreatening conditions of cancer, diabetes, schizophrenia and other physical mental and spiritual ills, abuses and addictions.

These therapies all work voluntarily by free will, based on forgiveness and letting go, regardless of the faith of the person going through the healing and recovery.

No need to shoot anyone, or threaten to, which is only shooting yourself in the foot. The best solutions are free: freely chosen and freely given by Nature or God as a natural process, consistent with science, universal to all people.

I have no use for Freedom, free choice or God, emily. I have less use for science. Only Morality has shown me any usefulness in life.

 

[emilynghiem]

Now here's an example of how to turn the other cheek, giving over all your clothes when they sue you for your cloak -- Using reverse psychology to give people what they ask for, and more:

=============
While gay activists are attacking Christian bakeries and wedding planners and filing lawsuits to put them out of business because of their religious beliefs, a Catholic priest has come up with a simple solution that, if adopted nationally, likely could end much of the gay and left-wing offensive in this realm.

Simply, accept all business from gays and tell them that the money will be donated to a traditional pro-family lobby or organization. And if your business is catering, for instance, show up at the gay wedding wearing a Cross necklace, a Bible-pin on your lapel, and a Bible verse embroidered on your uniform that expresses your morality, such as Mark 10:6-7, "But at the beginning of creation God made them male and female. For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife."

Christians to Gays We ll Accept Your Business and Donate Your Money to Traditional Pro-Family Lobby CNS News


As Fr. John Zuhlsdorf explains in his Apr. 2 blog post, "It’s time for everyone to calm down. We need a new approach. Think about this. When some homosexual couple comes to your Christian business for services at their immoral event, don’t panic. Go ahead and take their business!"

"Then explain what is going to happen next," says Fr. Z on his popular blog page.

"Tell them that the food and services will be just fine. And then inform them that all of the money that they pay for the services will be donated to a traditional pro-family lobby."

"If it is something like catering, where your employees have to be there to provide services, tell them that all your people will smile, be professional, and everyone of them will be wearing crucifixes and have the Holy Family embroidered on their uniforms," says Fr. Z.

"Then show them pictures of your uniforms," he writes. "When the truck pulls up, speakers will be playing Immaculate Mary. Show them the truck and play the music."

“Oh, you would be offended by that? I’m so sorry," notes Fr. Z. "You approached us because we are Christians. Right? We are happy to provide services for you and we are grateful that you chose to come to our Christian catering business. We just want to be of help.”

When it comes to unethics, an homosexual is little compared to liars, deceivers, atheists and most people of religion (since only one religion can be true), etc... Christianity is a great mess.

Hi Muslim75 Thank you for sharing your thoughts on this. It is good to hear from different viewpoints and angles where it isn't so polarized.

Christianity is a mess like Government is a mess from not following its own Constitutional principles.
The true meaning and message in Christianity, as with Constitutional teachings, would clean up both messes!
the
As my friend Mustafaa Carroll of CAIR said about Islam, it's not Islam that needs reform but the Muslim followers.

As for Christianity, the gift and power of spiritual healing through divine forgiveness to break past patterns,
not only cures the root conditions behind lying, rejection between religious or political groups as with extreme atheism as well as extreme theist religions that divide and attack each other instead of establishing truth civilly, or other social ills and destruction; but the forgiveness, healing and reconciliation in truth is the same process that has cured people of physical mental and spiritual disorders. Cancer, diabetes, drug or sex abuse and addictions, and even some homosexual and cureable cases of pedophilia have been resolved through spiritual therapy and deliverance.

This is not about converting people to any religion. I know atheists who have gone through healing and stay secular. I know at least one transgender person who came out after receiving healing and accepting that Christianity was not evil but about unconditional love. The forgiveness in spiritual healing, which Christians attribute to God's grace through Christ, is even taught by atheists as a natural gift in life, with or without representation as a personified God.
this process of healing and reconciliation in the spirit of truth, by forgiveness and correction, inclusion and agreement freely reached between people, is universal. people of all religious or political affiliations, or none at all, go through this same process to establish truth justice and peace, which Christians have taught as the trinity. This isn't limited to just Christian symbolism, but the concept is right -- that all people are governed by equal justice under law. We just don't all personify universal justice as a Jesus figure, but that is what it means. The concept of justice and peace for all humanity is still a universal message and process.

Christians are right about that, yet as the Bible itself warns, the narrow path of agreement that includes all ways equally, the understanding how all people of all tribes and nations can come together in unity, and yet still remain diverse in religions and cultures without forcing each other to change, is a very narrow passage, and very few will find it. Those few will serve the rest, and lead followers of all tribes and all nations to one understanding that preserves diversity, so there can still be unity and agreement in truth, freely chosen not forced by coercion, where all people of all views are equally included and respected.

As my friend Mustafaa Carroll of CAIR said about Islam, it's not Islam that needs reform but the Muslim followers.

You could't be more wrong about this. Islam IS the problem. The savages who are killing and raping around the globe are following the teachings of muhammed. That is the true islam.

The true message in Islam is peaceful coexistence between Jews Christians and Muslims as People of the Book.

Anyone who is not living up to that is following Antichrist just as the extreme Jihadists or Armaggeddonists.
Those are the Antichrist extremists abusing Islam and Christianity beyond recognition by other Muslims or Christians.

The truly peaceful Muslims and Jews receive and accept, include and do not reject Christianity.
That's how you can know the true believers. They are one in Christ Jesus, if under scriptural authority, or Restorative Justice if secular gentile under natural laws. This spirit unifies all people of all tribes, and does not discriminate by creed. You can be of any faith background or none at all, and be one in the spirit of Restorative Justice that includes and respects people of all other backgrounds regardless of creed or affiliation, religious political or secular.

You have no idea what islam teaches. I've posted a link to a book that explains the life of muhammed and his teachings. You cannot understand islam without first understanding it's founder.
Here it is again. Read it, and educate yourself.
The Story of Mohammed About This Book

Dear Mr.Right
I understand that Mohammad fought religious wars for political conquest of land to build an empire.
Then turned around and taught peace. Which has been criticized as enslaving Jews and Christians as forced followers instead of really embracing true Christianity and acknowledging the liberating grace and salvation in Christ Jesus.

I understand this background, similar to how America started with genocide of Native Americans to conquer and colonize the land. Then the slave trade of Irish, Blacks, Chinese for railroad labor, and now Mexican and foreign labor to build corporate power.

Does the corporate corruption of America mean to dismiss the Constitution which can still be fulfilled to create equal justice for all people?

That's fine if you want to dismiss the ideals in Islam, based on the political abuses of it for the opposite.
Same with Christianity.
Same with Constitutionalism.

All have fallen short. None of these systems save us, and all have been abused for political conquest.

Given this, how can we as Christian and Constitutional believers in equal justice
use the laws correctly to unite all people of all tribes for common goals of truth justice and peace.

the same laws abused for greed and political oppression to control others
can be used to organize and uplift people group by group.

I agree with you that nobody should follow the antichrist spirit in the history
of Islam, Christianity or even Constitutional traditions abused to enslave others.

What I am asking is to empower leaders in all these groups to unite and use
the best principles and traditions we agree on, from all these ways, and teach those consistently.

The Muslims I know such as Carroll who has won peace and justice awards for his work in
Constitutional outreach ARE compatible and living by Christian and Constitutional principles.

There is no conflict there. So this is the way to overcome the political abuses.
it is using agreement with Christians and Constitutionalists. This includes Muslims as well.
you don't have to reject Muslims to establish the justice promised in Christianity and constitutional laws.

in fact, given the liberal Democrat rift against Christians and conservatives,
the Muslims who are Constitutionalists are the best bet to lead the Democrats to embrace the Constitution.
the Muslims I have met in the peace and justice progressive communities are open to working with others.
so this can stop the liberal rejection of Constitutionalists on the right that can bridge the political divide.

these are not enemies but some of the best allies we have to reunite the nation around the Constitution

 

[emilynghiem]

Sorry Anathema I DO believe in and support gun rights as part of an empowered and educated citizenry in ENFORCING Constitutional laws and protections; But never for committing crimes or abusing power or firearms to violate due process and equal protection of the laws. That would go against the very Constitution which defends citizens' gun rights themselves. You cannot violate the very laws you are invoking, that is self-contradictory and self-defeating.

As for mental illness, this is never solved by killing off the population. That isn't solving where the ills come from.
Even diseases like leprosy were never cured by isolating or killing off lepers. It takes scientific methods to identify the cause, find the cure and apply it.

I hope you will encouraged to know that people have been healed of unwanted homosexual attractions through spiritual therapy. And these same spiritual methods of healing have also cured more serious lifethreatening conditions of cancer, diabetes, schizophrenia and other physical mental and spiritual ills, abuses and addictions.

These therapies all work voluntarily by free will, based on forgiveness and letting go, regardless of the faith of the person going through the healing and recovery.

No need to shoot anyone, or threaten to, which is only shooting yourself in the foot. The best solutions are free: freely chosen and freely given by Nature or God as a natural process, consistent with science, universal to all people.

I have no use for Freedom, free choice or God, emily. I have less use for science. Only Morality has shown me any usefulness in life.

Thank you Anathema I'd like to understand what your Morality teaches you about society and sustainable solutions.
I must have totally misunderstood your post about using firearms to get rid of extreme mentally ill conflicts over diversity. That didn't sound moral to me, but maybe you were just trying to make an extreme point using extreme language. It seems more moral and ethical to me to CURE mental illness, not kill people because of it.

 

[Mr.Right]

When it comes to unethics, an homosexual is little compared to liars, deceivers, atheists and most people of religion (since only one religion can be true), etc... Christianity is a great mess.

Hi Muslim75 Thank you for sharing your thoughts on this. It is good to hear from different viewpoints and angles where it isn't so polarized.

Christianity is a mess like Government is a mess from not following its own Constitutional principles.
The true meaning and message in Christianity, as with Constitutional teachings, would clean up both messes!
the
As my friend Mustafaa Carroll of CAIR said about Islam, it's not Islam that needs reform but the Muslim followers.

As for Christianity, the gift and power of spiritual healing through divine forgiveness to break past patterns,
not only cures the root conditions behind lying, rejection between religious or political groups as with extreme atheism as well as extreme theist religions that divide and attack each other instead of establishing truth civilly, or other social ills and destruction; but the forgiveness, healing and reconciliation in truth is the same process that has cured people of physical mental and spiritual disorders. Cancer, diabetes, drug or sex abuse and addictions, and even some homosexual and cureable cases of pedophilia have been resolved through spiritual therapy and deliverance.

This is not about converting people to any religion. I know atheists who have gone through healing and stay secular. I know at least one transgender person who came out after receiving healing and accepting that Christianity was not evil but about unconditional love. The forgiveness in spiritual healing, which Christians attribute to God's grace through Christ, is even taught by atheists as a natural gift in life, with or without representation as a personified God.
this process of healing and reconciliation in the spirit of truth, by forgiveness and correction, inclusion and agreement freely reached between people, is universal. people of all religious or political affiliations, or none at all, go through this same process to establish truth justice and peace, which Christians have taught as the trinity. This isn't limited to just Christian symbolism, but the concept is right -- that all people are governed by equal justice under law. We just don't all personify universal justice as a Jesus figure, but that is what it means. The concept of justice and peace for all humanity is still a universal message and process.

Christians are right about that, yet as the Bible itself warns, the narrow path of agreement that includes all ways equally, the understanding how all people of all tribes and nations can come together in unity, and yet still remain diverse in religions and cultures without forcing each other to change, is a very narrow passage, and very few will find it. Those few will serve the rest, and lead followers of all tribes and all nations to one understanding that preserves diversity, so there can still be unity and agreement in truth, freely chosen not forced by coercion, where all people of all views are equally included and respected.

As my friend Mustafaa Carroll of CAIR said about Islam, it's not Islam that needs reform but the Muslim followers.

You could't be more wrong about this. Islam IS the problem. The savages who are killing and raping around the globe are following the teachings of muhammed. That is the true islam.

The true message in Islam is peaceful coexistence between Jews Christians and Muslims as People of the Book.

Anyone who is not living up to that is following Antichrist just as the extreme Jihadists or Armaggeddonists.
Those are the Antichrist extremists abusing Islam and Christianity beyond recognition by other Muslims or Christians.

The truly peaceful Muslims and Jews receive and accept, include and do not reject Christianity.
That's how you can know the true believers. They are one in Christ Jesus, if under scriptural authority, or Restorative Justice if secular gentile under natural laws. This spirit unifies all people of all tribes, and does not discriminate by creed. You can be of any faith background or none at all, and be one in the spirit of Restorative Justice that includes and respects people of all other backgrounds regardless of creed or affiliation, religious political or secular.

You have no idea what islam teaches. I've posted a link to a book that explains the life of muhammed and his teachings. You cannot understand islam without first understanding it's founder.
Here it is again. Read it, and educate yourself.
The Story of Mohammed About This Book

Dear Mr.Right
I understand that Mohammad fought religious wars for political conquest of land to build an empire.
Then turned around and taught peace. Which has been criticized as enslaving Jews and Christians as forced followers instead of really embracing true Christianity and acknowledging the liberating grace and salvation in Christ Jesus.

I understand this background, similar to how America started with genocide of Native Americans to conquer and colonize the land. Then the slave trade of Irish, Blacks, Chinese for railroad labor, and now Mexican and foreign labor to build corporate power.

Does the corporate corruption of America mean to dismiss the Constitution which can still be fulfilled to create equal justice for all people?

That's fine if you want to dismiss the ideals in Islam, based on the political abuses of it for the opposite.
Same with Christianity.
Same with Constitutionalism.

All have fallen short. None of these systems save us, and all have been abused for political conquest.

Given this, how can we as Christian and Constitutional believers in equal justice
use the laws correctly to unite all people of all tribes for common goals of truth justice and peace.

the same laws abused for greed and political oppression to control others
can be used to organize and uplift people group by group.

I agree with you that nobody should follow the antichrist spirit in the history
of Islam, Christianity or even Constitutional traditions abused to enslave others.

What I am asking is to empower leaders in all these groups to unite and use
the best principles and traditions we agree on, from all these ways, and teach those consistently.

The Muslims I know such as Carroll who has won peace and justice awards for his work in
Constitutional outreach ARE compatible and living by Christian and Constitutional principles.

There is no conflict there. So this is the way to overcome the political abuses.
it is using agreement with Christians and Constitutionalists. This includes Muslims as well.
you don't have to reject Muslims to establish the justice promised in Christianity and constitutional laws.

in fact, given the liberal Democrat rift against Christians and conservatives,
the Muslims who are Constitutionalists are the best bet to lead the Democrats to embrace the Constitution.
the Muslims I have met in the peace and justice progressive communities are open to working with others.
so this can stop the liberal rejection of Constitutionalists on the right that can bridge the political divide.

these are not enemies but some of the best allies we have to reunite the nation around the Constitution

Let me guess. You didn't read what I posted. Those peaceful Muslims you mentioned are not really muslims. They do not follow the teachings of muhammed. Islam is evil. Read the book and learn the truth.

 

[emilynghiem]

Hi Muslim75 Thank you for sharing your thoughts on this. It is good to hear from different viewpoints and angles where it isn't so polarized.

Christianity is a mess like Government is a mess from not following its own Constitutional principles.
The true meaning and message in Christianity, as with Constitutional teachings, would clean up both messes!
the
As my friend Mustafaa Carroll of CAIR said about Islam, it's not Islam that needs reform but the Muslim followers.

As for Christianity, the gift and power of spiritual healing through divine forgiveness to break past patterns,
not only cures the root conditions behind lying, rejection between religious or political groups as with extreme atheism as well as extreme theist religions that divide and attack each other instead of establishing truth civilly, or other social ills and destruction; but the forgiveness, healing and reconciliation in truth is the same process that has cured people of physical mental and spiritual disorders. Cancer, diabetes, drug or sex abuse and addictions, and even some homosexual and cureable cases of pedophilia have been resolved through spiritual therapy and deliverance.

This is not about converting people to any religion. I know atheists who have gone through healing and stay secular. I know at least one transgender person who came out after receiving healing and accepting that Christianity was not evil but about unconditional love. The forgiveness in spiritual healing, which Christians attribute to God's grace through Christ, is even taught by atheists as a natural gift in life, with or without representation as a personified God.
this process of healing and reconciliation in the spirit of truth, by forgiveness and correction, inclusion and agreement freely reached between people, is universal. people of all religious or political affiliations, or none at all, go through this same process to establish truth justice and peace, which Christians have taught as the trinity. This isn't limited to just Christian symbolism, but the concept is right -- that all people are governed by equal justice under law. We just don't all personify universal justice as a Jesus figure, but that is what it means. The concept of justice and peace for all humanity is still a universal message and process.

Christians are right about that, yet as the Bible itself warns, the narrow path of agreement that includes all ways equally, the understanding how all people of all tribes and nations can come together in unity, and yet still remain diverse in religions and cultures without forcing each other to change, is a very narrow passage, and very few will find it. Those few will serve the rest, and lead followers of all tribes and all nations to one understanding that preserves diversity, so there can still be unity and agreement in truth, freely chosen not forced by coercion, where all people of all views are equally included and respected.

As my friend Mustafaa Carroll of CAIR said about Islam, it's not Islam that needs reform but the Muslim followers.

You could't be more wrong about this. Islam IS the problem. The savages who are killing and raping around the globe are following the teachings of muhammed. That is the true islam.

The true message in Islam is peaceful coexistence between Jews Christians and Muslims as People of the Book.

Anyone who is not living up to that is following Antichrist just as the extreme Jihadists or Armaggeddonists.
Those are the Antichrist extremists abusing Islam and Christianity beyond recognition by other Muslims or Christians.

The truly peaceful Muslims and Jews receive and accept, include and do not reject Christianity.
That's how you can know the true believers. They are one in Christ Jesus, if under scriptural authority, or Restorative Justice if secular gentile under natural laws. This spirit unifies all people of all tribes, and does not discriminate by creed. You can be of any faith background or none at all, and be one in the spirit of Restorative Justice that includes and respects people of all other backgrounds regardless of creed or affiliation, religious political or secular.

You have no idea what islam teaches. I've posted a link to a book that explains the life of muhammed and his teachings. You cannot understand islam without first understanding it's founder.
Here it is again. Read it, and educate yourself.
The Story of Mohammed About This Book

Dear Mr.Right
I understand that Mohammad fought religious wars for political conquest of land to build an empire.
Then turned around and taught peace. Which has been criticized as enslaving Jews and Christians as forced followers instead of really embracing true Christianity and acknowledging the liberating grace and salvation in Christ Jesus.

I understand this background, similar to how America started with genocide of Native Americans to conquer and colonize the land. Then the slave trade of Irish, Blacks, Chinese for railroad labor, and now Mexican and foreign labor to build corporate power.

Does the corporate corruption of America mean to dismiss the Constitution which can still be fulfilled to create equal justice for all people?

That's fine if you want to dismiss the ideals in Islam, based on the political abuses of it for the opposite.
Same with Christianity.
Same with Constitutionalism.

All have fallen short. None of these systems save us, and all have been abused for political conquest.

Given this, how can we as Christian and Constitutional believers in equal justice
use the laws correctly to unite all people of all tribes for common goals of truth justice and peace.

the same laws abused for greed and political oppression to control others
can be used to organize and uplift people group by group.

I agree with you that nobody should follow the antichrist spirit in the history
of Islam, Christianity or even Constitutional traditions abused to enslave others.

What I am asking is to empower leaders in all these groups to unite and use
the best principles and traditions we agree on, from all these ways, and teach those consistently.

The Muslims I know such as Carroll who has won peace and justice awards for his work in
Constitutional outreach ARE compatible and living by Christian and Constitutional principles.

There is no conflict there. So this is the way to overcome the political abuses.
it is using agreement with Christians and Constitutionalists. This includes Muslims as well.
you don't have to reject Muslims to establish the justice promised in Christianity and constitutional laws.

in fact, given the liberal Democrat rift against Christians and conservatives,
the Muslims who are Constitutionalists are the best bet to lead the Democrats to embrace the Constitution.
the Muslims I have met in the peace and justice progressive communities are open to working with others.
so this can stop the liberal rejection of Constitutionalists on the right that can bridge the political divide.

these are not enemies but some of the best allies we have to reunite the nation around the Constitution

Let me guess. You didn't read what I posted. Those peaceful Muslims you mentioned are not really muslims. They do not follow the teachings of muhammed. Islam is evil. Read the book and learn the truth.

Hi Mr.Right I get what you are saying about the evils of Jihadism; my bf has personally interviewed Walid Shoebat multiple times on radio. That is clearly evil. What I am talking about are the people who are Muslim as their family background and culture, similar to Hindus brought up Hindu or Buddhists brought up Buddhist. It is not inherently evil if you do not teach it that way, but in the spirit of unity with all other people.

The same Bible can guide Quakers to make peace in times of war and have nothing to do with the people like Hitler and his camps that killed people thinking they were following God's will by the Bible.

The same Constitution can justify slavery as justify abolishing it.

These two camps are like night and day.

The same science that can be used to save lives with more efficient energy can be used to destroy humanity with nuclear bombs.

Mr.Right I am even used to my friends telling me "I'm not a real Democrat" because I enforce Constitutional laws above party. It is a big task to correct all the wrongs done by Democrats that were unconstitutional abuses of govt.

same with the Christians trying to rebuke abuses by enforcing the real meaning and message in the Bible

and even more so with Jews and Muslims who are trying to correct and teach their tribes in line with God's laws that include and align with Christianity.

These are the real prophets and teachers.

You are right Mr.Right that anyone teaching false things, anyone rejecting what Jesus and Christianity mean instead of teaching the message correctly, are false.

There are lots of false dangerous teachings mixing Islam with govt oppression because of lack of Constitutional knowledge.

Since the Constitutional laws are based on natural laws from God, then Islam is supposed to include all these laws sent by God.

So that is how I define the true believers in God, where the truth would include correct and reconcile with all true laws.

There is no way that the military warfare during that period of history where Mohammad set up his empire is sustainable teaching.

The true teachings are closer to how the Bahai and Sufi Muslims teach in a spiritually inclusive and universal way.

You can call that "not true Muslims" but what you mean is it isn't the violent political conquest in the past.
And neither are Constitutionalists today supposed to be defending slavery as the basis of building the economy.
that is in the past, but is not in the future.

Islam also heads toward peace.
Christianity is the key to leading to peace.
both the church and state and all tribes will be led to peace.

This is led by Christ, and the true believers including in Islam recognize Christ and do not reject or divide politically.
I happen to know Jews who receive and believe in Christ and remain Jewish.
And I know Muslims and secular gentiles who join in justice and peace in the same spirit of Christians.

I know way too many Muslims who believe in justice and enforcing constitutional due process and equal protections.
You can all them what you want, but if they call themselves Muslim then I recognize them as that.
Like the Jewish, it is a cultural identity, so these are real Muslims but have political differences like anyone else.
And just like in Christianity, there are fundamental Christians who will even disown their own members,
and say the Universalist Christians are "not real Christians" but teaching something else. of course Islam has that, too.

 

[Mr.Right]

As my friend Mustafaa Carroll of CAIR said about Islam, it's not Islam that needs reform but the Muslim followers.

You could't be more wrong about this. Islam IS the problem. The savages who are killing and raping around the globe are following the teachings of muhammed. That is the true islam.

The true message in Islam is peaceful coexistence between Jews Christians and Muslims as People of the Book.

Anyone who is not living up to that is following Antichrist just as the extreme Jihadists or Armaggeddonists.
Those are the Antichrist extremists abusing Islam and Christianity beyond recognition by other Muslims or Christians.

The truly peaceful Muslims and Jews receive and accept, include and do not reject Christianity.
That's how you can know the true believers. They are one in Christ Jesus, if under scriptural authority, or Restorative Justice if secular gentile under natural laws. This spirit unifies all people of all tribes, and does not discriminate by creed. You can be of any faith background or none at all, and be one in the spirit of Restorative Justice that includes and respects people of all other backgrounds regardless of creed or affiliation, religious political or secular.

You have no idea what islam teaches. I've posted a link to a book that explains the life of muhammed and his teachings. You cannot understand islam without first understanding it's founder.
Here it is again. Read it, and educate yourself.
The Story of Mohammed About This Book

Dear Mr.Right
I understand that Mohammad fought religious wars for political conquest of land to build an empire.
Then turned around and taught peace. Which has been criticized as enslaving Jews and Christians as forced followers instead of really embracing true Christianity and acknowledging the liberating grace and salvation in Christ Jesus.

I understand this background, similar to how America started with genocide of Native Americans to conquer and colonize the land. Then the slave trade of Irish, Blacks, Chinese for railroad labor, and now Mexican and foreign labor to build corporate power.

Does the corporate corruption of America mean to dismiss the Constitution which can still be fulfilled to create equal justice for all people?

That's fine if you want to dismiss the ideals in Islam, based on the political abuses of it for the opposite.
Same with Christianity.
Same with Constitutionalism.

All have fallen short. None of these systems save us, and all have been abused for political conquest.

Given this, how can we as Christian and Constitutional believers in equal justice
use the laws correctly to unite all people of all tribes for common goals of truth justice and peace.

the same laws abused for greed and political oppression to control others
can be used to organize and uplift people group by group.

I agree with you that nobody should follow the antichrist spirit in the history
of Islam, Christianity or even Constitutional traditions abused to enslave others.

What I am asking is to empower leaders in all these groups to unite and use
the best principles and traditions we agree on, from all these ways, and teach those consistently.

The Muslims I know such as Carroll who has won peace and justice awards for his work in
Constitutional outreach ARE compatible and living by Christian and Constitutional principles.

There is no conflict there. So this is the way to overcome the political abuses.
it is using agreement with Christians and Constitutionalists. This includes Muslims as well.
you don't have to reject Muslims to establish the justice promised in Christianity and constitutional laws.

in fact, given the liberal Democrat rift against Christians and conservatives,
the Muslims who are Constitutionalists are the best bet to lead the Democrats to embrace the Constitution.
the Muslims I have met in the peace and justice progressive communities are open to working with others.
so this can stop the liberal rejection of Constitutionalists on the right that can bridge the political divide.

these are not enemies but some of the best allies we have to reunite the nation around the Constitution

Let me guess. You didn't read what I posted. Those peaceful Muslims you mentioned are not really muslims. They do not follow the teachings of muhammed. Islam is evil. Read the book and learn the truth.

Hi Mr.Right I get what you are saying about the evils of Jihadism; my bf has personally interviewed Walid Shoebat multiple times on radio. That is clearly evil. What I am talking about are the people who are Muslim as their family background and culture, similar to Hindus brought up Hindu or Buddhists brought up Buddhist. It is not inherently evil if you do not teach it that way, but in the spirit of unity with all other people.

The same Bible can guide Quakers to make peace in times of war and have nothing to do with the people like Hitler and his camps that killed people thinking they were following God's will by the Bible.

The same Constitution can justify slavery as justify abolishing it.

These two camps are like night and day.

The same science that can be used to save lives with more efficient energy can be used to destroy humanity with nuclear bombs.

Mr.Right I am even used to my friends telling me "I'm not a real Democrat" because I enforce Constitutional laws above party. It is a big task to correct all the wrongs done by Democrats that were unconstitutional abuses of govt.

same with the Christians trying to rebuke abuses by enforcing the real meaning and message in the Bible

and even more so with Jews and Muslims who are trying to correct and teach their tribes in line with God's laws that include and align with Christianity.

These are the real prophets and teachers.

You are right Mr.Right that anyone teaching false things, anyone rejecting what Jesus and Christianity mean instead of teaching the message correctly, are false.

There are lots of false dangerous teachings mixing Islam with govt oppression because of lack of Constitutional knowledge.

Since the Constitutional laws are based on natural laws from God, then Islam is supposed to include all these laws sent by God.

So that is how I define the true believers in God, where the truth would include correct and reconcile with all true laws.

There is no way that the military warfare during that period of history where Mohammad set up his empire is sustainable teaching.

The true teachings are closer to how the Bahai and Sufi Muslims teach in a spiritually inclusive and universal way.

You can call that "not true Muslims" but what you mean is it isn't the violent political conquest in the past.
And neither are Constitutionalists today supposed to be defending slavery as the basis of building the economy.
that is in the past, but is not in the future.

Islam also heads toward peace.
Christianity is the key to leading to peace.
both the church and state and all tribes will be led to peace.

This is led by Christ, and the true believers including in Islam recognize Christ and do not reject or divide politically.
I happen to know Jews who receive and believe in Christ and remain Jewish.
And I know Muslims and secular gentiles who join in justice and peace in the same spirit of Christians.

I know way too many Muslims who believe in justice and enforcing constitutional due process and equal protections.
You can all them what you want, but if they call themselves Muslim then I recognize them as that.
Like the Jewish, it is a cultural identity, so these are real Muslims but have political differences like anyone else.
And just like in Christianity, there are fundamental Christians who will even disown their own members,
and say the Universalist Christians are "not real Christians" but teaching something else. of course Islam has that, too.

None of that changes the fact that islam is pure evil. I'll not discuss this with you anymore until you read the info in that link I posted. until you do, you really don't understand islam. I know it's pretty long, so take your time. But please read it.

 

[emilynghiem]

None of that changes the fact that islam is pure evil. I'll not discuss this with you anymore until you read the info in that link I posted. until you do, you really don't understand islam. I know it's pretty long, so take your time. But please read it.

Hi Mr.Right I read through all the chapters but not all the details which weren't necessary to get the gist of the history. You and I are talking about two totally different contexts and periods of history. Yes I agree it is wrongful to try to repeat any of the religious wars and atrocities that Mohammad led to create that empire.

Today, the Muslims who respect God's TRUE laws include the natural laws of "Golden Rule and treating others with respect humanity and peace" and respect the laws and authority of the land. So this precludes and makes ILLEGAL the entire content and context of all the abuses, oppression, warfare and political attack and control over people and religion which is either cited or referenced indirectly in that overview. All similar cases past and future are clearly illegal by human rights laws and common sense of what is the greater good of society.

None of that can be practiced in civil society without breaking laws - God's laws, natural laws, civil laws, and simple common sense and reason about how relations and society works.

I agree with you that anyone who teaches to follow ANYTHING that violates civil laws, natural laws, the faith of other people, and pure common sense and reason cannot be truth, so any belief in that cannot be true either. So if YOU and others point to this historic and political cult abuse and call this Islam then I agree with you, of course, that is completely false and for political control only.

What I am talking about when I refer to Islam is when
* Islam means submitting to God's will as a peaceful humbling and natural positive process out of respect for all people and all life, in the same spirit as Buddhism when it is peaceful and not politically abused for power. IE not any kind of political submission by force, of guilt fear or other negative motivation that is less than true natural free and right for that person and for all humanity as God's true will.

As Mustafaa Carroll stated about "no compulsion in religion":
any faith must be freely chosen and can't be forced or it it is false. it is not real if it is only because someone is forced.

* Shariah refers to all practices of the faith, including charity which one follows out of respect and free will and reverence and not for any false or political reasons. IE does not allow for abuse by govt to impose control punish or force people in violation of due process which is a natural law given by God as part of human nature.

* woman are revered with higher respect as mothers, even more than men, as taught in the Bible that mothers are honored before fathers.

The people I know who teach Islam this way are more in harmony with the Bahai, UU, Christian and humanitarians. So that is what I see as true to God's laws.

They are not under the oppressive cultural or political regimes as in countries that don't have a strong Christian or Constitutional foundation as America has.

Like the Christians and Americans who come from a free background, I will not be able to look at the OLD ways that Islam (or Christianity) was taught with wars and genocide justified as God's ordination.

Since Scriptural laws in Christianity, including understanding Christ Jesus as Restorative Justice universal to all humanity, and natural laws in Constitutionalism are divine and part of the laws and prophets given by God, then any true Muslim Jew or Christian following God consistently by conscience would not agree with any violation or abuse in conflict with any of these laws.

So if you call all this Jihadism and Mohammad's political oppression to be Islam of course I agree that is completely a political cult to abuse power for oppression.

I am happy to ask all the Muslims who believe in something else to consider changing the name of what they believe so it is never confused with this other oppression and abuse still going on today.

You and I are talking about two totally different tracks that people are on.
One is peaceful and in keeping with Christianity and Constitutionalism and working for peace through civil due process to correct the very wrongs going on in the world from people abusing religion or politics.

One is warmongering and abusing power that causes endless suffering and hell on earth.

These clearly cannot be called the same religion.

if there are too many people calling the hell bound atrocities as Islam
it would be easier to ask the law abiding peaceful Muslims to call themselves something else to distinguish themselves as not believing or committing or submitting to any such thing.

I believe we should have a constitutional convention about political beliefs.
Constitutionalism is one, Democrats have turned the party platform into a political religion,
and the issue of Jihadism shariah and Muslim beliefs is another area to distinguish which is what.

If the beliefs of Muslims is not aligned with any of what you cited about Mohammad, then
this needs to be separated and resolved.

We need to have consistent terms for which people are following which beliefs or not,
so that nobody enables religious cult abuses, and those who really practice that can be
isolated and removed from civil society and live under their own laws without imposing or endangering any other person group or nation.

first step is to agree on terms.

So if you want to call all this atrocity and oppression to be Islam
then the peaceful believers need to be called something else so there is no confusion.

 

[Anathema]

[Thank you Anathema I'd like to understand what your Morality teaches you about society and sustainable solutions.
I must have totally misunderstood your post about using firearms to get rid of extreme mentally ill conflicts over diversity. That didn't sound moral to me, but maybe you were just trying to make an extreme point using extreme language. It seems more moral and ethical to me to CURE mental illness, not kill people because of it.

First off my morality is based on the ideals that the original human societies were based on..... Minimalist society with individuals taking care of themselves for the most part. Society based on anything other than morals is worthless. Expecting anyone to support you is also immoral. Once you cannot play your part in society you are fully removed from society unless some private entity is willing to take care of you at their expense.

 

[UllysesS.Archer]

"While gay activists are attacking Christian bakeries and wedding planners and filing lawsuits to put them out of business because of their religious beliefs..."

This is a lie, no one is 'attacking' Christian businesses, nor is anyone seeking to put anyone 'out of business.'

And victims of discrimination who file suit to seek injunctive relief from that discrimination do so in good faith and in accordance with the public accommodations laws of their state.

Indeed, businesses who discriminate against gay patrons in jurisdictions with public accommodations laws prohibiting discrimination based on sexual orientation have only themselves to blame if they are subject to a lawsuit, as it's incumbent upon the business owner to know the law and to obey just, proper, and Constitutional laws that in no way 'violate' religious liberty.

Glad you think the OP is a good idea.

 

[emilynghiem]

Mr.Right
To distinguish these different traditions,
I am thinking to use the term Jihadist for the violent terrorist tactics of worshipping War instead of peace
(jihad means internal struggle for peace but the Jihadists wage external warfare on others)
And from what you point out,
perhaps Islamist should refer to the oppressive history and militant govt regimes in Arab countries
so we need to separate the Muslims as the individual followers who believe in human rights,
democratic due process, religious freedom for all people of all faiths, and respect for civil laws and authority.

Jihadist for terrorist attackers that is violently antichrist and against the law, even attacking its own govt and people
Islamist for oppressive regimes that is political abuse of law/govt but since it is embedded in govt it becomes the law
Muslims under peaceful Islam which in practice is a more secular denomination of Christianity that recognizes Jews and Christians as joined with Muslims in Christ

If we can agree to separate the terms,
then the Jihadist can be declared illegal and not conflict with others who aren't committing illegal acts.

For the Islamist, this can still be politically oppressive, but it is confusing to call this illegal when the cultural biases are embedded into the law and govt; such as when slavery was endorsed by US govt, so even though it is against natural laws and human rights, technically it counted as legal.

I think this is a good point, to separate the terms so it is clear WHICH level of law and violations we are talking about.

The hardest ones to distinguish are between the Islamists and the peaceful Muslim followers of Islam.
But we can at least unite and ban the Jihadist types, while we work to identify the difference between
peaceful Muslim followers and the Islamist type that mix the faith in with govt, which doesn't work because there is no check against religious abuses. I think when Islam gets "politicized" as Islamist is when it gets oppressive.
it cannot be mixed with govt authority.

 

[Ravi]

Now here's an example of how to turn the other cheek, giving over all your clothes when they sue you for your cloak -- Using reverse psychology to give people what they ask for, and more:

=============
While gay activists are attacking Christian bakeries and wedding planners and filing lawsuits to put them out of business because of their religious beliefs, a Catholic priest has come up with a simple solution that, if adopted nationally, likely could end much of the gay and left-wing offensive in this realm.

Simply, accept all business from gays and tell them that the money will be donated to a traditional pro-family lobby or organization. And if your business is catering, for instance, show up at the gay wedding wearing a Cross necklace, a Bible-pin on your lapel, and a Bible verse embroidered on your uniform that expresses your morality, such as Mark 10:6-7, "But at the beginning of creation God made them male and female. For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife."

Christians to Gays We ll Accept Your Business and Donate Your Money to Traditional Pro-Family Lobby CNS News


As Fr. John Zuhlsdorf explains in his Apr. 2 blog post, "It’s time for everyone to calm down. We need a new approach. Think about this. When some homosexual couple comes to your Christian business for services at their immoral event, don’t panic. Go ahead and take their business!"

"Then explain what is going to happen next," says Fr. Z on his popular blog page.

"Tell them that the food and services will be just fine. And then inform them that all of the money that they pay for the services will be donated to a traditional pro-family lobby."

"If it is something like catering, where your employees have to be there to provide services, tell them that all your people will smile, be professional, and everyone of them will be wearing crucifixes and have the Holy Family embroidered on their uniforms," says Fr. Z.

"Then show them pictures of your uniforms," he writes. "When the truck pulls up, speakers will be playing Immaculate Mary. Show them the truck and play the music."

“Oh, you would be offended by that? I’m so sorry," notes Fr. Z. "You approached us because we are Christians. Right? We are happy to provide services for you and we are grateful that you chose to come to our Christian catering business. We just want to be of help.”

Most gay people are Christians so I'm not seeing how this would offend them.

That is probably one of the dumbest things I've ever read. You are beyond stupid.

it is true

New Poll Shows Gays and Lesbians Believe in God Religion Dispatches

 

[Mr.Right]

Now here's an example of how to turn the other cheek, giving over all your clothes when they sue you for your cloak -- Using reverse psychology to give people what they ask for, and more:

=============
While gay activists are attacking Christian bakeries and wedding planners and filing lawsuits to put them out of business because of their religious beliefs, a Catholic priest has come up with a simple solution that, if adopted nationally, likely could end much of the gay and left-wing offensive in this realm.

Simply, accept all business from gays and tell them that the money will be donated to a traditional pro-family lobby or organization. And if your business is catering, for instance, show up at the gay wedding wearing a Cross necklace, a Bible-pin on your lapel, and a Bible verse embroidered on your uniform that expresses your morality, such as Mark 10:6-7, "But at the beginning of creation God made them male and female. For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife."

Christians to Gays We ll Accept Your Business and Donate Your Money to Traditional Pro-Family Lobby CNS News


As Fr. John Zuhlsdorf explains in his Apr. 2 blog post, "It’s time for everyone to calm down. We need a new approach. Think about this. When some homosexual couple comes to your Christian business for services at their immoral event, don’t panic. Go ahead and take their business!"

"Then explain what is going to happen next," says Fr. Z on his popular blog page.

"Tell them that the food and services will be just fine. And then inform them that all of the money that they pay for the services will be donated to a traditional pro-family lobby."

"If it is something like catering, where your employees have to be there to provide services, tell them that all your people will smile, be professional, and everyone of them will be wearing crucifixes and have the Holy Family embroidered on their uniforms," says Fr. Z.

"Then show them pictures of your uniforms," he writes. "When the truck pulls up, speakers will be playing Immaculate Mary. Show them the truck and play the music."

“Oh, you would be offended by that? I’m so sorry," notes Fr. Z. "You approached us because we are Christians. Right? We are happy to provide services for you and we are grateful that you chose to come to our Christian catering business. We just want to be of help.”

Most gay people are Christians so I'm not seeing how this would offend them.

That is probably one of the dumbest things I've ever read. You are beyond stupid.

it is true

New Poll Shows Gays and Lesbians Believe in God Religion Dispatches

Anyone can call themselves a Christian, or claim that they believe in God. The Bible condemns homosexual behavior. It calls it an abomination. So I don't care what you, or some stupid, biased poll says. No one who practices the gay lifestyle is a Christian. Period.